UNO Game Thread

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Someone on Scoop made a great post about these players having raw athleticism but not necessarily being well-coached from early on. Burton is a great example of someone who has generally been able to just dominate physically, but hasn't necessarily ever had great coaching (leaving Brewster may have been a mistake in that regard). It isn't just that these kids are learning a new system, they also have to learn how to learn, how to receive real coaching.

One thing with Buzz, he didn't really seem to have a lot of set plays on offense. When you had guys willing to take their shot, that worked fine. But when guys weren't as self-motivated, like last year when players like Jamil, Derrick, and Jake logged major minutes but were all willing to defer to someone else, things just kind of broke down. In the past, that was okay because the focus always seemed to be coaching defense while letting the offensive players play. With Wojo coming from a more structured style, he has to build these guys from the ground up. He needs to teach an offense, a defense, while at the same time teaching them how to be receptive to teaching itself. This could be a long process, but I think it will really help as we see him bring in his own guys.

[TheSultan]

But at some point your coaching as to adapt. I mean it's not as though these guys are seniors. He is dealing with two sophomores in JJJ and Deonte who are hopefully going to be around awhile.

I think of Buzz's second year and the midgets team. That was hardly a team built with Buzz's type of players, but they competed and were fun to watch. Of course that team was filled with seniors and had its stretches of poor play as well. But Buzz adapted his style to fit his team. I hope that Wojo isn't so focused on implementing his system for his type of players, that he can't adapt for the players who are here right now.

Good coaches don't sacrifice the short term for the sake of the long term. Good coaches figure out how to do both.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Good coaches don't sacrifice the short term for the sake of the long term. Good coaches figure out how to do both.

I'm not sure I agree with that. We live in a win-now society, but does that necessarily create the best long-term product? The year before Coach K got to Duke, the team was in the Elite 8. He made the NIT his first year, then had back-to-back losing seasons. They were calling for his head in Durham. Instead of firing him, the university decided to let him finish his contract. I think it worked out pretty well. Rick Pitino went 14-14 in his first year at Kentucky, a team that was one year removed from a 9-year NCAA streak. They stuck with him and he went on to have a decent career. Billy Donovan had 2 losing seasons at Florida, a team that had been in the Final Four just 2 years before he arrived, but that worked out okay.

Sometimes you come into a situation that requires a complete overhaul. That was the case for Coach K, Pitino, and Donovan. All of their bosses stuck by them and ended up with multiple Final Fours and at least one NCAA championship banner. I'm not saying Wojo will do the same, but he came into a tough situation and it's entirely possible that the best way to fix it is to tear everything down. If we don't make the NCAAs this year or even have a losing record, I still think it's worth sticking by the guy to give him a chance to install what he wants to do. If that takes 3-4 years, so be it.

[TheSultan]

I'm not sure I agree with that. We live in a win-now society, but does that necessarily create the best long-term product? The year before Coach K got to Duke, the team was in the Elite 8. He made the NIT his first year, then had back-to-back losing seasons. They were calling for his head in Durham. Instead of firing him, the university decided to let him finish his contract. I think it worked out pretty well. Rick Pitino went 14-14 in his first year at Kentucky, a team that was one year removed from a 9-year NCAA streak. They stuck with him and he went on to have a decent career. Billy Donovan had 2 losing seasons at Florida, a team that had been in the Final Four just 2 years before he arrived, but that worked out okay.

Sometimes you come into a situation that requires a complete overhaul. That was the case for Coach K, Pitino, and Donovan. All of their bosses stuck by them and ended up with multiple Final Fours and at least one NCAA championship banner. I'm not saying Wojo will do the same, but he came into a tough situation and it's entirely possible that the best way to fix it is to tear everything down. If we don't make the NCAAs this year or even have a losing record, I still think it's worth sticking by the guy to give him a chance to install what he wants to do. If that takes 3-4 years, so be it.

Can it create the best long term product? Sure. Why not? For example, if MU is having trouble keeping guards in front of them on the perimeter, why not try a different type of defense? Zone? How is that taking away from what he might want to build over the long run? I guess what I am saying is that I don't think a coach should force players into his system as much as he should adjust the system to make use of the players he has now. That doesn't mean he can't implement it fully down the road.

I have a hard time comparing Wojo to Pitino, Coack K, etc. because I have no recollection of the talent that any of them inherited. Wojo has a team with talent. It's raw talent. It's incomplete. But it's there.

And maybe I am exaggerating. I just want to see what happens from here on.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

There's raw athletic talent, but that doesn't mean they have the capacity to be a great basketball team. Jamail Jones and Erik Williams had talent. Juan and Steve have talent. But none of them have been consistently productive D1 performers, and that's half of Buzz's top 100 recruits before the 2013 class. How do we know that Jajuan, Deonte, and Duane won't be just as ineffective in the long run as the guys above? Sure, they've shown flashes on offense, but nothing consistent, and certainly nothing on defense.

I'm also not willing to compare Wojo to the names above just yet, but I do think we need to be patient. He has seen these guys for 3 actual games. When Buzz took over, he had four players that would end up in the top-10 all-time leading scorers at Marquette. Guys that had proven they could succeed at this level. And he had a year on the sidelines with them beforehand. Wojo has a few months with them and 3 games. Will any of them end up in the top-10 in scoring? Maybe, but none of them are close to that yet. Wojo was left with a completely different situation than the one Buzz had, and by the time Buzz had to make his adjustments for the midgets team, he had been with the key players for 2 years.

I guess I just want to preach patience. This won't be an overnight thing, and we may just be playing for a draft pick this year.

[MUAlphaBangura]

Can it create the best long term product? Sure. Why not? For example, if MU is having trouble keeping guards in front of them on the perimeter, why not try a different type of defense? Zone? How is that taking away from what he might want to build over the long run? I guess what I am saying is that I don't think a coach should force players into his system as much as he should adjust the system to make use of the players he has now. That doesn't mean he can't implement it fully down the road.

I have a hard time comparing Wojo to Pitino, Coack K, etc. because I have no recollection of the talent that any of them inherited. Wojo has a team with talent. It's raw talent. It's incomplete. But it's there.

And maybe I am exaggerating. I just want to see what happens from here on.

Agree with almost all, but you can't discount the intangibles that seemingly all the coaches have, but the players lack. That is the mental toughness and the will to find a way to win no matter the circumstances. That is an unteachable element. Either you have it or don't. I am afraid the majority of our players don't have it. And no amount of teaching by Wojo will instill that.

[TheSultan]

Agree with almost all, but you can't discount the intangibles that seemingly all the coaches have, but the players lack. That is the mental toughness and the will to find a way to win no matter the circumstances. That is an unteachable element. Either you have it or don't. I am afraid the majority of our players don't have it. And no amount of teaching by Wojo will instill that.

I hear ya. And I'll say one more thing. I'm beginning to see why Buzz played the players he did last year.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I hear ya. And I'll say one more thing. I'm beginning to see why Buzz played the players he did last year.

Agree with this completely. Buzz always talked about putting a chip on players' shoulders. Not many of these guys play with that type of intensity, and the ones that do don't have the talent to win games on their own.

[kneelb4zerg]

Maybe having a horrible year, or at least losing a buy game in embarrassing fashion, will toughen them up. Hopefully just the latter.

[Nukem2]

There's raw athletic talent, but that doesn't mean they have the capacity to be a great basketball team. Jamail Jones and Erik Williams had talent. Juan and Steve have talent. But none of them have been consistently productive D1 performers, and that's half of Buzz's top 100 recruits before the 2013 class. How do we know that Jajuan, Deonte, and Duane won't be just as ineffective in the long run as the guys above? Sure, they've shown flashes on offense, but nothing consistent, and certainly nothing on defense.

I'm also not willing to compare Wojo to the names above just yet, but I do think we need to be patient. He has seen these guys for 3 actual games. When Buzz took over, he had four players that would end up in the top-10 all-time leading scorers at Marquette. Guys that had proven they could succeed at this level. And he had a year on the sidelines with them beforehand. Wojo has a few months with them and 3 games. Will any of them end up in the top-10 in scoring? Maybe, but none of them are close to that yet. Wojo was left with a completely different situation than the one Buzz had, and by the time Buzz had to make his adjustments for the midgets team, he had been with the key players for 2 years.

I guess I just want to preach patience. This won't be an overnight thing, and we may just be playing for a draft pick this year.

Yup. A lot of paralysis by analysis going on re all of this. Patience is the word this year.