Dayton/Vanderbilt

[mufan2003]

Dayton wins @ #21 Vanderbilt, projected to be 2nd in SEC behind Kentucky. Xavier defeated Dayton in Orlando by 25.

[MulliganMusings]

I've never understood the antipathy many feel about Dayton. Solid program with a very strong fan base. Have to give Archie Miller credit for what he has built. I wouldn't want the Big East to expand beyond 10 (I like the double round robin format) but if the league were ever to go to 12 I don't know why Dayton wouldn't be seriously considered.

[TedBaxter]

Dayton has always been the first team I would take if the lead expanded or someone left.

[warriorfan4life]

I've never understood the antipathy many feel about Dayton. Solid program with a very strong fan base. Have to give Archie Miller credit for what he has built. I wouldn't want the Big East to expand beyond 10 (I like the double round robin format) but if the league were ever to go to 12 I don't know why Dayton wouldn't be seriously considered.

There's a great camaraderie between the fans of all of the current Big East schools and a healthy respect for each other. Adding Dayton immediately ruins that, as their fans are some of the most obnoxious of any school in the country.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

To me it has nothing to do with any of that, it has to do with two things:

Do they bring more money? No, we already have that TV market covered with Xavier.

Do they elevate the national recognition of the conference? No. Sure they are good and have a passionate fan base, but at they going to sell out the BC based off name recognition? Absolutely not, only the die hard college fans know about Dayton.

In my opinion the only schools worth expanding for would be UCONN, Cinncinati, SMU, or Memphis because they all check one or both of those boxes. Now with that said that's not likely to happen because of football so my vote is to stay at 10.

[MayorBeluga]

In my opinion the only schools worth expanding for would be UCONN, Cinncinati, SMU, or Memphis because they all check one or both of those boxes. Now with that said that's not likely to happen because of football so my vote is to stay at 10.

SMU? Really? They don't move the needle at all in Dallas/Ft. Worth. A couple of good years leading to the inevitable Larry Brown probation (which would be a great band name) are not worth it. UConn and Cincy? Absolutely, but that requires them giving up on football, and at this point that ain't gonna happen. Alas.

[DCwarrior]

Dayton would do very little for the Big East in terms of name recognition and TV exposure. They've been an average to good team for the past 30 years with sporadic trips to the NCAA tourney. They've been better than good the past 2 years with very solid fan support, but you can chalk a lot of that up to Archie Miller (who is likely in the final year as their coach...I foresee him moving to Indiana or another big program after this year).

For me -- stay at 10 unless UCONN or Cincy give up football or ND wants to move back home. Since none of those three will happen...just stay at 10.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

SMU? Really? They don't move the needle at all in Dallas/Ft. Worth. A couple of good years leading to the inevitable Larry Brown probation (which would be a great band name) are not worth it. UConn and Cincy? Absolutely, but that requires them giving up on football, and at this point that ain't gonna happen. Alas.

Definitely, and do you think DePaul moves the needle in Chicago? No, but it gets you a spot in that market. Not saying I want them, but I would take them over Dayton, atleast they bring something different, to me Dayton is pretty much what we already have in this league. If we are going to expand it needs to add something, I think adding the DFW market would do that.

From a quality of basketball sense they don't do a ton for me, but they are upgrading facilities and have a good recruiting base to draw from, they could be good in the right league.

[TedBaxter]

Dallas, Memphis, etc. all are a drain because of travel for non-revenue sports and this is an northern based conference.

Men's basketball is the trademark of the Big East and Dayton has a longstanding name nationally among basketball writers and true basketball fans. It even has the Final Four appearance.

Might be in the same media footprint as Xavier, but all in all, a better fit than probably any private school anyone is going to name.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

There's a great camaraderie between the fans of all of the current Big East schools and a healthy respect for each other. Adding Dayton immediately ruins that, as their fans are some of the most obnoxious of any school in the country.

I can't say I've been to Dayton for a game, but I wonder how much of that is due to a relatively small sample size of online morons. We've had some UD fans show up on our websites and comport themselves like complete jackasses, but that doesn't mean the bulk of the fanbase is like that. People like RedForeman and EricTheeRed make Badger fans look bad, but I know plenty of rational UW fans so it's not fair to paint them all with a broad brush because of a few idiots. When Creighton first played at the BC in Big East play (McDermott's senior year) my most visceral memory is drunken Creighton fans trying to fight with MU fans in the stands and it escalating to the point where Milwaukee Police were called into Section 425 to haul them out. A small sample size of idiots, but not necessarily exemplar of all Creighton fans.

And by the same token, we have guys like Ners, Muggsy, and Murff that can have rather extreme takes that turn people off for various reasons, but it doesn't mean our fanbase on the whole is bad. I feel that way about Dayton. They do have some idiots online, but on the whole it seems they have a passionate fanbase that really gets out and supports their program. I still don't regard them as a team worth taking strictly on their own merits, but if expansion was imminent and we wanted to go to 12 with a lights out candidate like UConn or Gonzaga (neither of whom I feel are very realistic) I feel Dayton would be a fantastic second team to add as they fit the league's profile, mission, and passionate love of hoops very well.

[MayorBeluga]

) I feel Dayton would be a fantastic second team to add as they fit the league's profile, mission, and passionate love of hoops very well.

But does adding Dayton add significantly to the pie so everyone's share get larger? Or do we get a smaller piece of the existing pie? That, my friends, is the question. Really, only UConn and Notre Dame add enough to the television contract to result in everyone getting even more. That's not going to happen. Absent increasing the contract enough so each school gets more, there is no reason to add anyone. Especially Dayton. :cool:

[unclejohn]

I can't say I've been to Dayton for a game, but I wonder how much of that is due to a relatively small sample size of online morons. We've had some UD fans show up on our websites and comport themselves like complete jackasses, but that doesn't mean the bulk of the fanbase is like that. People like RedForeman and EricTheeRed make Badger fans look bad, but I know plenty of rational UW fans so it's not fair to paint them all with a broad brush because of a few idiots. When Creighton first played at the BC in Big East play (McDermott's senior year) my most visceral memory is drunken Creighton fans trying to fight with MU fans in the stands and it escalating to the point where Milwaukee Police were called into Section 425 to haul them out. A small sample size of idiots, but not necessarily exemplar of all Creighton fans.

And by the same token, we have guys like Ners, Muggsy, and Murff that can have rather extreme takes that turn people off for various reasons, but it doesn't mean our fanbase on the whole is bad. I feel that way about Dayton. They do have some idiots online, but on the whole it seems they have a passionate fanbase that really gets out and supports their program. I still don't regard them as a team worth taking strictly on their own merits, but if expansion was imminent and we wanted to go to 12 with a lights out candidate like UConn or Gonzaga (neither of whom I feel are very realistic) I feel Dayton would be a fantastic second team to add as they fit the league's profile, mission, and passionate love of hoops very well.

I was with you right up to when you mentioned Gonzaga and UConn. Not going to happen. Nobody wants to send their tennis team to Gonzaga. UConn is a state school with football. They are not getting rid of it and as long as they have it, they are not a candidate, because football is always going to be their priority. The conference is not going to trust them not to split the second they see a more attractive opening. And they are a different type of institution from the small, private, mostly Catholic current line-up.

Regarding expansion, which I think will happen eventually, I do not have a problem with Dayton. They are a consistently solid program and Marquette has played them for years so it would not be like bringing in a complete stranger. Actually, we have probably played them a lot more times than we have Butler. There was speculation when the new group came together that they were on the short list. Butler and Xavier were the first two and they were expected from the start. The other names that got kicked around were Saint Louis and Dayton, and Creighton came in and grabbed that spot. So what happens if the conference expands? I am not sure it would take both of them because the East Coast schools would want one of the schools to be near them. So that suggests SLU or Dayton, but not both. I do not know how Xavier feels about adding them. I have always thought that expansion comes down to SLU and.... and filling in the blank is the hangup. The names i have seen thrown around on message boards are not IMO serious candidates. No UConn because of football. No Gonzaga because of distance and market. (Who lives in Spokane?) No VCU because they are big and public and just do not have the same needs and culture of small private religious schools. So maybe SLU and Dayton.

Or, (and don't laugh) my sleeper candidate, Loyola. Like I said, don't laugh. They have gotten considerably better in recent years and knocked off Creighton last week. They would not be at the bottom of the conference this year. And they are likely to get better. Word is that they are pouring significant resources into the program, which is why they beat out UIC and UWM for a spot in the MVC to replace Creighton. They did fairly well last year and made and won a pay to play tournament. What is revealing about that is that Loyola played all but one of those games at home, and had to lose money on every one. I attended them and I do not think they drew enough fans in four games to make the $60,000 they had to pay Gazelle Group, but they did it anyway. The problem they have is that the Gentile center sits maybe 8000-10,000. No way they can match Creighton's traditional 15,000+ crowds. I am interested to see what they do about that in the future if they start winning and drawing fans for games against schools people have heard of. And there is little doubt that the conference could support two schools in Chicago. Travel is relatively easy from anywhere. Years down the line of course, but I can see it happening.

[ValiantSailor]

I've never understood the antipathy many feel about Dayton.

No antipathy from me...but I'm a huge fan of the double round robin format. The only way the league grows is to keep that format intact, IMO. Otherwise, sorry, we're full.

VS

[IrwinFletcher]

How about this one from way out of left field.

Boston College.

If we are looking at schools with football, why not BC. Fits better than some of these other ones do and their programs have sucked in the ACC. Maybe they would be willing to listen. President of BC was a former VP and Professor at MU.

[79warrior]

How about this one from way out of left field.

Boston College.

If we are looking at schools with football, why not BC. Fits better than some of these other ones do and their programs have sucked in the ACC. Maybe they would be willing to listen. President of BC was a former VP and Professor at MU.

Thay are not going backwards no matter how much they suck in the ACC

[unclejohn]

That is an interesting idea, but I think there are several problems. First, BC would have to find a way to play an independent football schedule. Even Notre Dame found that difficult and finally joined the ACC with the promise that they would play a bunch of games (five I think?) each year against ACC teams, which is how they ended up playing Clemson this year. I cannot see the ACC working out that kind of deal with BC. So where are they going to go for football? The American?

Secondly, I doubt that they would make as much money as a football independent and a Big East member. It might work if they did not suck, but unfortunately, they do. Finally, I am not sure the original Big East members would take them. There was some real bad blood at the time. The original raid by the ACC was supposed to be Miami, Syracuse, and BC. Then the ACC surprised everybody by taking Miami and Va. Tech because the Virginia legislature pushed for them and somebody thought they could get Notre Dame instead. So at that point, all the remaining BE schools, plus the new ones, Marquette, DePaul, Louisville and Cincinnati singed an agreement promising to stay together and setting big penalties for leaving. Then the ACC found that they could not get ND and wanted BC after all, and they were out the door. I do not think everyone was that mad at them originally, but after promising to stay and leaving, they got a lot of people mad and I think the whole thing wound up in court over how much they had to pay the BE to get out. The real winner in all this was that traditional Eastern power, USF. They were always an odd duck in the Big East, far away from everybody else and not particularly good at anything but women's soccer and football. They were originally going to enter as a football only member and put the rest of their sports in the Atlantic Sun. The BE wanted a school in Florida to replace Miami and give them access to the Florida recruiting market. As it happened, they made a whole lot more money as a Big East member than they would have otherwise, even if they were the doormat of the league most years.

[MU/Panther]

Dayton would sure help buying tickets at MSG. I would love Dayton in the Big East. Did you see that fan base in Orlando?!