Bucky Game

[Nukem2]

Time for game at UW on 12/12 is 12:30 PM on ESPN2.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

This year I'd be very disappointed if we lost to them. I'm sure this is a minority opinion but I think they'll finish out of the tournament.

[AbovetheRim]

This year I'd be very disappointed if we lost to them. I'm sure this is a minority opinion but I think they'll finish out of the tournament.

Bo's still coaching, right?

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

This year I'd be very disappointed if we lost to them. I'm sure this is a minority opinion but I think they'll finish out of the tournament.

I think you will be very disappointed, hard to win at the Kohl center at anytime... Make no mistake, I'd be blown away shocked if they didn't make the tournament and weren't a top 5 or 6 seed... Hayes and Koening are legit and may be all that's needed to make a tournament run.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Bo's still coaching, right?

Yup. And this is the least experienced team he's ever had. After Hayes and Koenig, he has nothing proven, even remotely. Vitto Brown and Showalter are their next two most experienced players. I think the top-4 streak ends this year, and think part of the reason Bo is sticking a year is so Gard doesn't have to start with this pile of crap team.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I think you will be very disappointed, hard to win at the Kohl center at anytime... Make no mistake, I'd be blown away shocked if they didn't make the tournament and weren't a top 5 or 6 seed... Hayes and Koening are legit and may be all that's needed to make a tournament run.

I expect most to think that. It wouldn't be a bold prediction if it didn't fly in the face of Bo's entire career.

[Nukem2]

Wow, I just posted the game time and the inmates are running the asylum....:confused:

[MUBasketball]

I think they'll have a bust out player as usual, my guess would be Ethan Happ.

[farmerdoc]

I think you will be very disappointed, hard to win at the Kohl center at anytime... Make no mistake, I'd be blown away shocked if they didn't make the tournament and weren't a top 5 or 6 seed... Hayes and Koening are legit and may be all that's needed to make a tournament run.

I'm sure neither of them approaches what Frank the Tank brought to the team, and I do not think either of them are at the same level as Decker. Both will have to improve significantly to keep Bucky even remotely near the last two years. That, and then who are the #3 and #4 guys to replace what those two did last year? This team is definitely beatable, Kohl-hole or not.

[TheSultan]

UW is definitely beatable in the Kohl Center this year. But my guess is that UW will make the tournament as about an 8 or 9 seed...which is what I have been saying about MU as well.

[Goose85]

One thing that will not play into the Badgers favor this year is the Big 10 schedule.

Last year the double games were Penn State, Nebraska, Iowa, Northwestern, Minnesota. Iowa was the only NCAA tourney team.
This year the double games are Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Michigan State, Purdue. I would think all but Illinois are NCAA tourney teams.

The team could be better than expected, but that might not translate into a top 4 finish just based on a harder Big 10 schedule.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I'm sure neither of them approaches what Frank the Tank brought to the team, and I do not think either of them are at the same level as Decker. Both will have to improve significantly to keep Bucky even remotely near the last two years. That, and then who are the #3 and #4 guys to replace what those two did last year? This team is definitely beatable, Kohl-hole or not.

I never said they would be as good as the last two years, but I think they are a tournament team. I think if you want to say their top 4 streak could be in jeopardy that's a very valid debate and I'd agree... But to say they will miss the tournament is definitely bold to say the least.

I think both Hayes and Koenig take steps forward and they end somewhere in the 5-8 seed range

[farmerdoc]

I never said they would be as good as the last two years, but I think they are a tournament team. I think if you want to say their top 4 streak could be in jeopardy that's a very valid debate and I'd agree... But to say they will miss the tournament is definitely bold to say the least.

I think both Hayes and Koenig take steps forward and they end somewhere in the 5-8 seed range

Very possible that they do. I think they will have very little depth compared to whatnthey are used to. I think they will need 3 or 4 guys to make a major step forward in order to be good enough to make the tourney. 4 of their top 6 guys are gone. Definately a rebuilding project if I've ever seen one.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Very possible that they do. I think they will have very little depth compared to whatnthey are used to. I think they will need 3 or 4 guys to make a major step forward in order to be good enough to make the tourney. 4 of their top 6 guys are gone. Definately a rebuilding project if I've ever seen one.

That has been what they say about the Badgers every year of Bo's career with the exception of last year. Make no mistake, he will have that team ready, they won't be great, but they will be good. I have a strong dislike for Bo, but it's hard to deny the results on the court.

[farmerdoc]

Past results are no guarantee of future returns! We just disagree. I think this years team is the exception to the rule for Bo. They will play slow, they will play tough D, and my guess is they will have to win ugly alot in order to make the tourney this year.

Can they? Of course. I just don't think they will. :D

[IWB]

Nigel Hayes is a player and will have that team in position. The only bump in their road is as Goose pointed out, the tougher conference schedule than they have had in several years.

[farmerdoc]

If bucky makes the tourney, I believe it will be Bo's best coaching job ever.

When was the last time he had a team with this many question marks? The number of kids that have to step up for them to be a tourney team is more than I can remember in a long time.

Kaminsky
Dekker
Gasser
Dukan

Three big minute guys and key depth. Being replaced with a lot less experience, and maybe less talent?

Sure it can happen, and they just reload, but even Bo is due for a little let down, especially with a tougher Big Ten schedule.

[Nukem2]

If bucky makes the tourney, I believe it will be Bo's best coaching job ever.

When was the last time he had a team with this many question marks? The number of kids that have to step up for them to be a tourney team is more than I can remember in a long time.

Kaminsky
Dekker
Gasser
Dukan

Three big minute guys and key depth. Being replaced with a lot less experience, and maybe less talent?

Sure it can happen, and they just reload, but even Bo is due for a little let down, especially with a tougher Big Ten schedule.Traevon Jackson as well. Yes, he was injured down the stretch last year., But, I'm sure Bo was holding his breath had Koenig been injured.

[mufan2003]

Nigel Hayes is really about 6'7", maybe 6'8". Who defends Fischer and Ellenson down on the blocks? Hayes is too short. Maybe one of their incoming freshmen. Playing at the Kohl Center against Bo is never easy, but MU has a very good shot to win this year.

[Halo]

Nigel Hayes is really about 6'7", maybe 6'8". Who defends Fischer and Ellenson down on the blocks? Hayes is too short. Maybe one of their incoming freshmen. Playing at the Kohl Center against Bo is never easy, but MU has a very good shot to win this year.

😯😯😵

I will be shocked if we win. UW will be top 4 in big ten and a 6 seed. We aren't near that. Book it.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]



I will be shocked if we win. UW will be top 4 in big ten and a 6 seed. We aren't near that. Book it.

In the past Bo has always had guys who were ready to make that jump. Look at Kaminsky's efficiency as an underclassman. Guys like Leuer, Nankivil, and Berggren were all solid bench players as underclassmen before stepping up when they got the chance.

There's no one remotely proven as a decent backup for Bo. Vitto Brown was terrible behind Kaminsky, one of Bo's worst offensively efficient players ever. And he's their most reliable reserve that needs to step up. Just to have a marginally effective bench, they need Brown, Happ, and three more completely untested guys to be reliable 20+ mpg guys. Bo has never needed freshmen to step up like he does this year.

The consensus is that Bo will succeed because he always does. However it's just as honest to say he's always succeeded because he had proven underclassmen reserves stepping into bigger roles as junior and seniors. The next time Bo wins with heavy contributions from multiple freshmen will be the first time. With that schedule, I don't think he's a safe bet.

[mufan2003]



I will be shocked if we win. UW will be top 4 in big ten and a 6 seed. We aren't near that. Book it.

Wow, "shocked" if MU wins? I can understand picking UW to win, but I tend to think it will be a close game that could go either way. It really is tough to predict how either team will be given it is July 31 and each team wil rely on a lot of new players. On paper, I like MU's matchups at the 4 and 5 and think Duane can match Koenig on the perimeter.

[farmerdoc]

Traevon Jackson as well. Yes, he was injured down the stretch last year., But, I'm sure Bo was holding his breath had Koenig been injured.

Thanks Nuke, I had forgotten about Traevon. So they lost 5 of top 7, and people expect them to be the same old Badgers?????

Like I said earlier, if they are, it will be Bo's best coaching job ever!

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

The reality will likely be somewhere in the middle of these predictions... I think some here underestimate how good Koening & Hayes are and I think some of us put too much stock into Bo's track record. That said I'll side with the track record until he proves us wrong.

I give UW the edge in head to head because they have home court and their two best players have a ton of experience whereas ours are young and relatively inexperienced.

[MUBasketball]

The reality will likely be somewhere in the middle of these predictions... I think some here underestimate how good Koening & Hayes are and I think some of us put too much stock into Bo's track record. That said I'll side with the track record until he proves us wrong.

I give UW the edge in head to head because they have home court and their two best players have a ton of experience whereas ours are young and relatively inexperienced.

Hard to argue with that logic.

[Halo]

Wow, "shocked" if MU wins? I can understand picking UW to win, but I tend to think it will be a close game that could go either way. It really is tough to predict how either team will be given it is July 31 and each team wil rely on a lot of new players. On paper, I like MU's matchups at the 4 and 5 and think Duane can match Koenig on the perimeter.

We have noone that has proven themselves yet as Hayes and Koenig have. Could it be Wilson and Fischer? Sure. But those two just went to back to back Final Fours. Our two guys finished last in the Big East. I am very encouraged about the future, but UW has shown they reload every year under Ryan.

[Halo]

In the past Bo has always had guys who were ready to make that jump. Look at Kaminsky's efficiency as an underclassman. Guys like Leuer, Nankivil, and Berggren were all solid bench players as underclassmen before stepping up when they got the chance.

There's no one remotely proven as a decent backup for Bo. Vitto Brown was terrible behind Kaminsky, one of Bo's worst offensively efficient players ever. And he's their most reliable reserve that needs to step up. Just to have a marginally effective bench, they need Brown, Happ, and three more completely untested guys to be reliable 20+ mpg guys. Bo has never needed freshmen to step up like he does this year.

The consensus is that Bo will succeed because he always does. However it's just as honest to say he's always succeeded because he had proven underclassmen reserves stepping into bigger roles as junior and seniors. The next time Bo wins with heavy contributions from multiple freshmen will be the first time. With that schedule, I don't think he's a safe bet.

Kaminsky was terrible his frosh year. So was Jordan Taylor. They already have 2 potential first team players with Hayes and Koenig. Vitto Brown will take a giant leap and Happ supposedly is very strong.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Kaminsky was terrible his frosh year. So was Jordan Taylor. They already have 2 potential first team players with Hayes and Koenig. Vitto Brown will take a giant leap and Happ supposedly is very strong.

Kaminsky wasn't terrible his frosh year. 105.8 ORTG and 50.0 EFG%. He was also a solid rebounder. But he only played 7.7 mpg behind Berggren. They didn't need him to be good. As a sophomore, he was highly efficient but only played 10.3 mpg. There was every sign he would be a star.

Taylor started rough, but I didn't mention him. Vitto Brown is and always has been terrible at Wisconsin. He could take a huge jump and still be a below average player, especially by their standards. Happ could be a D-Wade type practice player or a D-Fitz. No way of knowing until he plays. But even then that's only 4 guys. I'd grant Showalter as a adequate roleplayer, but that leaves a bench that will pretty much be all freshmen.

This team is everything that successful Bo Ryan teams are not. No seniors. No experienced backups that have shown they are ready to step up. Many freshmen that have never played before having to play key roles. If Bo can get this team to the NCAAs, it would be a greater accomplishment than back-to-back Final Fours.

[Nukem2]

Kaminsky wasn't terrible his frosh year. 105.8 ORTG and 50.0 EFG%. He was also a solid rebounder. But he only played 7.7 mpg behind Berggren. They didn't need him to be good. As a sophomore, he was highly efficient but only played 10.3 mpg. There was every sign he would be a star.

.Sorry, but Kaminsky looked like a clod as a frosh. Yeah, he had a nice looking stand still catch and shoot shot. But, he looked horrible otherwise. Every sign that he would be a star...uhh NO...

[Gato78]

Losing two NBA first rounders and 5 of top 7 will be very tough for Bucky. Look how we were damaged goods when DWade left, even though we had some pretty good talent coming up from behind especially in Diener and Novak. I would be shocked if Bucky does not struggle, especially early.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Sorry, but Kaminsky looked like a clod as a frosh. Yeah, he had a nice looking stand still catch and shoot shot. But, he looked horrible otherwise. Every sign that he would be a star...uhh NO...

Hence why I eschew the eye test. No, he didn't look like a NPOY type player, but he put up respectable end-of-the-bench numbers. Then he did even better as a sophomore. Basically, he did what just about every other Bo Ryan big man did as an underclassman.

The thing with Kaminsky...even as a senior he looked like a clod. Because that's his makeup, and his body style, and honestly, he's just not a physically attractive guy, so he always looks like the awkward kid on the court. But he could ball. He showed flashes early, significant flashes the next year, and then got the chance to put it all together as a junior, just like so many of those Bo kids did before, and so unlike anything Vitto Brown has ever done. Vitto hasn't put up the kind of numbers Bo's other successful bigs did. He's just piled awful on top of awful, with his only decent outings being against cupcake teams.

[farmerdoc]

Another factor is that neither Hayes nor Koenig has had to be "The Man" at this level. They are both very good players, but either of them could have a season like Jamil did his senior year. I don't think that either has had tonhandle that kind of in game pressure regularly enough to be a sure thing. The consistency that Bucky got from Frank last year was very special.

[Nukem2]

Hence why I eschew the eye test. No, he didn't look like a NPOY type player, but he put up respectable end-of-the-bench numbers. Then he did even better as a sophomore. Basically, he did what just about every other Bo Ryan big man did as an underclassman.

The thing with Kaminsky...even as a senior he looked like a clod. Because that's his makeup, and his body style, and honestly, he's just not a physically attractive guy, so he always looks like the awkward kid on the court. But he could ball. He showed flashes early, significant flashes the next year, and then got the chance to put it all together as a junior, just like so many of those Bo kids did before, and so unlike anything Vitto Brown has ever done. Vitto hasn't put up the kind of numbers Bo's other successful bigs did. He's just piled awful on top of awful, with his only decent outings being against cupcake teams.
True, but he still played very stiffly in all aspect of his game as a frosh other than that flat-footed outside shot. Very poor defender.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

That's sort of a Bo hallmark, though. Take guys that look like JAGs as freshmen, give them a couple years of seasoning, build a team around then. But most of those JAGs, especially the bigs, are typically offensively efficient, even as freshmen. Brown couldn't muster even mediocre efficiency and fell behind in the pecking order as the season went on. He's not the kind of guy Bo has had work out. He looks cut from the Evan Anderson, Ian Markolf type of cloth.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

That's sort of a Bo hallmark, though. Take guys that look like JAGs as freshmen, give them a couple years of seasoning, build a team around then. But most of those JAGs, especially the bigs, are typically offensively efficient, even as freshmen. Brown couldn't muster even mediocre efficiency and fell behind in the pecking order as the season went on. He's not the kind of guy Bo has had work out. He looks cut from the Evan Anderson, Ian Markolf type of cloth.

Yeah but I have heard good things about Happ.

[DowntownSweeney]

Most badger fans, and some here, are failing to heed the sage advice of Barry Alvarez: don't ever take success for granted.

UW will look nothing like the past two seasons. I predict this will be Ryan's weakest team. The NCAA streak ends.

[Goose85]

Bo has always been successful at having players who played a reserve role and were ready to step in and play his style when seniors left. The old next man in saying.
The key reserves last year were Dukan and Jackson. In a normal year those first two off the bench guys would be ready to assume the starters role, but these guys were seniors.
Showalter and Brown combined to average 3.9 points per game and 2.6 rebounds per game.

Happ may be playing well, but will be completely untested. It will be interesting to see how Bo handles the team without the experienced players he has normally had playing the big minutes. Bo has always had a quick hook with young guys, even Dekker. Can he do that this year or will he have to let the young guys play through mistakes.

I'm sure they will be fine, as Bo is a really good coach. Probably not the best year to have a really hard Big 10 slate for a change.

[farmerdoc]

Bo has always been successful at having players who played a reserve role and were ready to step in and play his style when seniors left. The old next man in saying.
The key reserves last year were Dukan and Jackson. In a normal year those first two off the bench guys would be ready to assume the starters role, but these guys were seniors.
Showalter and Brown combined to average 3.9 points per game and 2.6 rebounds per game.

Happ may be playing well, but will be completely untested. It will be interesting to see how Bo handles the team without the experienced players he has normally had playing the big minutes. Bo has always had a quick hook with young guys, even Dekker. Can he do that this year or will he have to let the young guys play through mistakes.

I'm sure they will be fine, as Bo is a really good coach. Probably not the best year to have a really hard Big 10 slate for a change.

Goose, that really is the key point. This year is unlike any I can remember for Bo at Madison in regards to the experience of returning players. He will have to let the young guys play through mistakes, as he doesn't have a lot of experience to rely on. They have 4 players returning that played meaningful minutes last year. While I do not expect a total collapse, if it happened, I would smile!

[MUMac]

Goose, that really is the key point. This year is unlike any I can remember for Bo at Madison in regards to the experience of returning players. He will have to let the young guys play through mistakes, as he doesn't have a lot of experience to rely on. They have 4 players returning that played meaningful minutes last year. While I do not expect a total collapse, if it happened, I would smile!

One other thing to consider, in addition to the above and tougher schedule, is that all teams on UW's schedule will be gunning a bit harder for UW. Back to back Final 4's, they have a bigger target on their back and will get the A game of every team they play, especially in the non-conference schedule.

[Markedman]

Pritzl broke his foot and had surgery.

@jaypo1961: Timetable for #Badgers Pritzl to return to court similar to T.Jackson last season. So looking at 2+ months.