Academic standards for basketball recruits

[TulsaWarrior]

It gets to me when some people look down at those of us who didn’t go to “big name” colleges or even went to a community college. As a television news director I’ve hired grads from schools ranging from Northwestern, Duke and Southern Cal to Sam Houston State, Oklahoma East Central and Bacone College. It’s not the school it’s the quality of the person and the fire they have inside.

As far as Marquette Basketball recruiting goes the administration needs to function with an open mind. Last time I checked that was the best way to learn. The program is in the best shape it has been since the McGuire Era and it’s not that way because of decisions the current school president and AD made. I’m sure both gentlemen are open to supporting the success of the program, the individuals who have achieved that success and upholding the outstanding principles of the Jesuits. The last factor of "Jesuit Principles" should leave room to consider the individual's life journey.

[IWB]

Good points Tulsa. I have always said, it really doesn't matter where you went to college, but what you got out of it, what that school did to make you who you are. I went to a small school and some of my closest friends retired in their early 30s. They made a ton of cash and it didn't matter where they went. If you have what it takes, it doesn't matter where you are from.

Your point about leaving room to consider the individual's life journey is one that I have always thought should apply with the NCAA.

Some of these kids, no matter where they are from, inner city, suburbs etc - did they really "get it" when they were freshmen in high school? Or sophomores even? When the NCAA looks at core credits they look at all four years, and unlike colleges, with the NCAA high school kids can't "re-take a course". So, say a kid is with the wrong crowd and has no parental support as a freshman, and he bombs all of his classes. Over the next two years he develops as an athlete and starts to get it, turns it around in the classroom and off the court - that's just too bad - you screwed up your freshman year when you were 14, - you are hereby sentenced to go the Juco route. Is that right? Shouldn't there be consideration for how the kid has developed as a student? Developed as a person?

Every college has their own criteria for accepting new students - they look at activities, their development etc. If a kid had a 1.0 GPA as a freshmen, a 1.5 as a soph, 3.0 as a junior and 3.5 as a senior, would the admissions office look at him and say - "sorry, you blew you chance your freshman year" or would they look at it as a kid who has come a long way and accept them? The NCAA would say "Sorry, you blew it".

[Nukem2]

Does anyone know what were the actual changes in MU's academic requirements. I presume the changes were applicable to all SAs.

[IWB]

No clue, and in reality, no one from MU has ever confirmed that there have been changes, that is all internal.

[TulsaWarrior]

Perhaps for PR reasons alone the Marquette Administration needs to articulate a policy publically ; - )

I would be happy with an affirmation to high academic standards while considering individual situations, on a case by case basis. I fear Dwyane Wade couldn't get into Marquette these days. He has proven to be an outstanding representative of Marquette. Look at all the %$#@! he had to deal with as a kid. Do you just accept kids from neighborhoods with grass in the yard and no cracked sidewalks?

Let someone in who has shown promise and review their standing on a semester by semester basis. That would be in the Jesuit tradition.

[TedBaxter]

There have been some players over the years like Bo Ellis who admittedly wouldn't have gotten into Marquette in todays standards who have gone on to graduate and who have continued to be involved in the school and they've contributed more to the school than most graduates and thats the type of thing the academic types forget about.

Life isn't always about ACT's and GPA's and IWB brought that up. If you give people a chance to accomplish things, that's the first key. I'm guessing the Scranton's, the Penn's, the Notre Dame's and Stanford's don't always see it that way. Marquette is a different school and has always embraced students from different ethnic, academic and financial backgrounds and they should remember that.

[Nukem2]

Perhaps for PR reasons alone the Marquette Administration needs to articulate a policy publically ; - )

I would be happy with an affirmation to high academic standards while considering individual situations, on a case by case basis. I fear Dwyane Wade couldn't get into Marquette these days. He has proven to be an outstanding representative of Marquette. Look at all the %$#@! he had to deal with as a kid. Do you just accept kids from neighborhoods with grass in the yard and no cracked sidewalks?

Let someone in who has shown promise and review their standing on a semester by semester basis. That would be in the Jesuit tradition.Actually, year by year requirements for GPA and total credits are posted in the academic section of gomarquette.com. Don't know if those are still in force.

[MUMac]

Actually, year by year requirements for GPA and total credits are posted in the academic section of gomarquette.com. Don't know if those are still in force.

Those are the current ones, which are the same as the NCAA's. Don't know what the "rumored" changes are, or if there are truly any changes forthcoming.

[MUMac]

Perhaps for PR reasons alone the Marquette Administration needs to articulate a policy publically ; - )

I would be happy with an affirmation to high academic standards while considering individual situations, on a case by case basis. I fear Dwyane Wade couldn't get into Marquette these days. He has proven to be an outstanding representative of Marquette. Look at all the %$#@! he had to deal with as a kid. Do you just accept kids from neighborhoods with grass in the yard and no cracked sidewalks?

Let someone in who has shown promise and review their standing on a semester by semester basis. That would be in the Jesuit tradition.

I have mentioned to some on this board that if the changes are true, Pilarz will remind me more of Fr. Albert DiUlio. And I do not remember the good father affectionately.

[MU Viking]

I have mentioned to some on this board that if the changes are true, Pilarz will remind me more of Fr. Albert DiUlio. And I do not remember the good father affectionately.

Guys, I've tried to remain silent through all this, and I don't feel it's appropriate for me to say very much. All I'll say is that before you start bashing the priest who runs our school and the big, bad Administration, maybe first see what actually transpires. Everyone on here seems to be operating with a lot of supposition and anger without knowing all the facts. I know it is difficult to remain patient and level-headed with all these rumors floating around, but I'd urge everyone to try to.

[MUMac]

Guys, I've tried to remain silent through all this, and I don't feel it's appropriate for me to say very much. All I'll say is that before you start bashing the priest who runs our school and the big, bad Administration, maybe first see what actually transpires. Everyone on here seems to be operating with a lot of supposition and anger without knowing all the facts. I know it is difficult to remain patient and level-headed with all these rumors floating around, but I'd urge everyone to try to.

Calling him DiUlio is bashing him? And you're the level headed one?!? I said "if", apparently that bypassed you. I stand by what I stated, and if that troubles you, I guess I will have to live with that. I heard many of the same sentiment that you espoused with DiUlio.

[MU Viking]

Calling him DiUlio is bashing him? And you're the level headed one?!? I said "if", apparently that bypassed you. I stand by what I stated, and if that troubles you, I guess I will have to live with that. I heard many of the same sentiment that you espoused with DiUlio.

Fair enough. I actually honestly didn't mean to quote you initially, just merely respond to those who are again freaking out ahead of time based on what is rumored. You at least questioned whether we know what the new rules are, which is a good thing.

I espouse nothing at this point with Pilarz other than that when I've spoken to him, I've been impressed and felt he understood the importance of basketball at Marquette, and that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until that is proved unwarranted.

If all that is rumored comes to pass and we actually know the details about why players are leaving the program and why players are not going to be "allowed" in, fine, I'll probably jump on the angry train myself. All I know is that all the comments making the assumption that Marquette has taken any kid in any circumstance and with any grades and test scores previously, and that there is going to be some dramatic Stanford-like policy now... mmmmm... I think we have to be careful with not prematurely overreacting and wait until we know more before flipping out with such statements. Nobody on this board knows exactly the academic situation with all past or current members of the team and with prospective students we are recruiting.

Whether any assumed changes to the policy are acceptable to Buzz is its own question. I would hope, and I am hopeful that Buzz will figure out a way to get guys he wants and perceives that the Administration is giving him the ability to do so, within reason.

[TulsaWarrior]

The bottom line is Marquette University has another budding PR problem. Part of that is due to Internet message boards where rumors take on a life of there own. Good PR people don't curse the wind. They figure out how to make it work for them. The university has a highly respected head basketball coach that is a Damon Runyon/ Jimmy Breslin character. The old fans love him, there are huge numbers of new fans that have become Marquette backers. Any preceived act that would prompt Buzz to leave is going to set up a massive firestorm the likes of it would tarnish the school nationally and more importantly with donors. No bucks coming in no pretty new buildings. I'm concerned whenever knew administrators come into a college that there is a lose of instutitional knowledge. New blood is healthy but they have to understand history and learn from it. I want a picture of of Larry Williams playing horse at the Al McGuire Center with Father Pilarz smiling in the background. If I was Marquette's PR firm I would make it happen even if I had to threaten to post baby pictures of the trio on Facebook.

[TulsaWarrior]

With Photoshop you could make a single picture with all three playing as kids together. Perhaps building something that lasts?

[farmerdoc]

Great post Vike. IMO one of the issues here is the impression that many of us have regarding belonging to the MU "Family". When you are dealing with grown ups (alums and fans), many who are older and have been through alot in our respective lives, we feel like we deserve to know what is going on and wonder how this will impact a very important part of out relationship with the University.

Being patient about these things is very tough, especially when the rumor mill suggests that people we care about in some way, might be adversly affected by these changes.

[IWB]

Not all things are rumors.

[farmerdoc]

Unfotunately, whenyou are my position on the outside looking in, it is hard to know what parts to believe and what parts to not believe.

[MU Viking]

Not all things are rumors.

And not all things people are flying off the handle about are accurate. I'm not trying to counter IWB here. He is very connected. I'm just saying that there is more to the story that may never see the light of day and that we shouldnt rush to judgment without knowing all the facts.

[MUMac]

And not all things people are flying off the handle about are accurate. I'm not trying to counter IWB here. He is very connected. I'm just saying that there is more to the story that may never see the light of day and that we shouldnt rush to judgment without knowing all the facts.

The problem is in your last sentence. If the facts behind the story do not see the light of day, it results in judging without knowing all the facts. Unfortunately, that will be the case.

I hope MU handles whatever happens positively and decisively. I am not saying to tell the dirty details or throw anyone under the bus. But, MU has not really been very strong in the PR Dept. Right now, the message boards are flooded with people expecting the worst. MU needs to address that somehow. I am just not confident they will do it right. History is not on their side.

[MU Viking]

People want to know the facts. It isn't appropriate to state all the facts. Catch-22. Agree that this has become a growing PR problem. Hopefully, with time, all will sort itself out and things will die down and we can sing Kumbaya.

[MU_Iceman]

People want to know the facts. It isn't appropriate to state all the facts. Catch-22. Agree that this has become a growing PR problem. Hopefully, with time, all will sort itself out and things will die down and we can sing Kumbaya.

They may die down, in time, all things do, but if any changes result in players having to leave(rather than leaving on their own accord, which I might add it will be spun that way), then we have a right to be angry. It's patently unfair to them, and right or wrong it does affect us as fans, alumni and season ticket holders.

[MU Viking]

They may die down, in time, all things do, but if any changes result in players having to leave(rather than leaving on their own accord, which I might add it will be spun that way), then we have a right to be angry. It's patently unfair to them, and right or wrong it does affect us as fans, alumni and season ticket holders.

Agree with this.

[Tmreddevil]

People can have their opinions as they like about Buzz, jucos, "rough around the edges" type kids, whatever...

One thing I have personally taken to heart and begun to quote Buzz in my professional life on is...and I'm paraphrasing:

"Confidence comes from how hard you work. The amount of effort we put it gives us the confidence that we can succeed at what we are doing." I personally don't give a **** what any of these kids' grades were before school, if they are going to come in to our institution and put that kind of effort every day, often significantly harder than the average student, they will always have my support, always.

[Djgoldnboy]

They may die down, in time, all things do, but if any changes result in players having to leave(rather than leaving on their own accord, which I might add it will be spun that way), then we have a right to be angry. It's patently unfair to them, and right or wrong it does affect us as fans, alumni and season ticket holders.


Who's to say that hasn't already happened?

[IWB]

Who's to say that hasn't already happened?

Great point

[pbiflyer]

Great point

Um, are you saying..........

[Goose85]

Sounds like it is already having an effect.