OT: Patriots and Deflate Gate

[Goose85]

I know this is a MU board, but I always like to see the opinions of those on this board on other topics as well.

Ok, it looks like the NFL thinks the Pats knowingly broke the rules. In other situations this year, piped in crowd noise / texting down to the field, there have been NFL penalties levied. I would think the same would happen here, any thoughts on what the penalty should be?

People keep talking about the QB, but any deflating of the ball helps a running back probably more than a QB. Less air in the ball, easier to avoid fumbling.

OT I know, but just thought it would be interesting to hear what other MU hoops fans (different NFL team fans) think.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I think they will do something, I mean come on, handing down punishment is Goddell's favorite activity. I'd imagine there will be monetary fines for the team, MAYBE a draft pick vacated, and Brady might get a game or two if they felt he was involved enough.

[TheSultan]

I think this is one of the most overblown stories in recent times. Fine them some draft picks and some cash. Move on.

I think the bigger story is MSG hiring back Isiah Thomas as President of a WNBA franchise after being found guilty of creating a hostile work environment for when when he worked for the same company as President of the Knicks. Now *that* is something to be upset about.

[Nukem2]

Yes, I would say this is overblown. In reality, the teams play with the same ball(s). Fine the Patriots and dock some draft picks and suspend Brady for an important game.

[Goose85]

Yes, I would say this is overblown. In reality, the teams play with the same ball(s). Fine the Patriots and dock some draft picks and suspend Brady for an important game.

I don't think there is any level of football where teams play with the same ball(s). Each team brings their own balls to games, and when on offense Patriots use their balls and, for example, when the Colts are on offense the Colts use their footballs. Same is done in college, high school and grade school.

Could also explain why the Patriot fumble stats are so much better than everyone else. The affect on fumbling is the much bigger advantage in my opinion.

[MU/Panther]

I don't watch the NFL can someone explain what this story is about? Joking, I've heard what's been going on.

Story is overblown, Colts got kills. Every team wants some type of edge. Rodgers like the balls overfilled. Brady likes them different. Don't have managers for teams doing this, then it would be avoided.

[Nukem2]

I don't think there is any level of football where teams play with the same ball(s). Each team brings their own balls to games, and when on offense Patriots use their balls and, for example, when the Colts are on offense the Colts use their footballs. Same is done in college, high school and grade school.

Could also explain why the Patriot fumble stats are so much better than everyone else. The affect on fumbling is the much bigger advantage in my opinion.
Did not realize that was so. If so, perhaps the NFL should totally control the supply of (and, inflation of... :D ) game balls. Baseball controls the supply of balls (with some trickery still going on after that).

PS, a quick google suggests that the home team in the NFL provides the game balls (36 for outdoors or 24 for indoors with additional balls for the kicking game). Not sure you are correct on this.

[Goose85]

Did not realize that was so. If so, perhaps the NFL should totally control the supply of (and, inflation of... :D ) game balls. Baseball controls the supply of balls (with some trickery still going on after that).

PS, a quick google suggests that the home team in the NFL provides the game balls (36 for outdoors or 24 for indoors with additional balls for the kicking game). Not sure you are correct on this.

Teams have used their own footballs for awhile now. Here are a couple articles that reference it. Not sure if it is like college, where teams actually have their school logo on the ball.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/24/expert-explains-protocol-with-nfl-game-balls/fCtQ38pBjBFXId0WJC2wpL/story.html

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/08/nfl-inflating-footballs-air-pressure-rule/

[Nukem2]

NFL controls everything else, why not control the football(s)? Kind of like MLB allowing pitchers to doctor the ball any way they wish. Given all this, do the Patriots really need to be punished?

[WarriorOMalley82]

Btw the leading proponent in changing the rules and allowing each team to play with their own balls was Tom Brady. He got Payton Manning and a few other QB's to sign his petition and that is when the league changed the rules. I totally disagree with anyone who says this is no big deal, the Patriots have also had the fewest fumbles over the years since the change by a wide margin well outside what would be a statistical norm> Tom Brady has been considered the best bad weather QB in the league for awhile seems strange since he has small hands compared to other qb's. I admire what the team and the QB have done, but I absolutely believe they have cheated every way they can think of if they don't think they will get caught. As far as those that say every QB has done it I have heard many including Troy Aikman, Mark Brunnell, Jim Miller and others say they not only didn't do it, but never heard of anyone else doing it and they also said it would be a huge advantage in bad weather.
:confused: HMMMM yea I guess just another coincidence that seems to favor a team that was caught cheating again?

[Nukem2]

Btw the leading proponent in changing the rules and allowing each team to play with their own balls was Tom Brady. He got Payton Manning and a few other QB's to sign his petition and that is when the league changed the rules. I totally disagree with anyone who says this is no big deal, the Patriots have also had the fewest fumbles over the years since the change by a wide margin well outside what would be a statistical norm> Tom Brady has been considered the best bad weather QB in the league for awhile seems strange since he has small hands compared to other qb's. I admire what the team and the QB have done, but I absolutely believe they have cheated every way they can think of if they don't think they will get caught. As far as those that say every QB has done it I have heard many including Troy Aikman, Mark Brunnell, Jim Miller and others say they not only didn't do it, but never heard of anyone else doing it and they also said it would be a huge advantage in bad weather.
:confused: HMMMM yea I guess just another coincidence that seems to favor a team that was caught cheating again?
All true. But, the NFL made its own bed by allowing teams to use their own balls.

[pbiflyer]

It really isn't the event, but the fact that it was organizational cheating and a repeat offender at that.

In the judicial world "conspiracy to commit" carries an additional weight to the original charges. Multiple people knew about it. And if you think for a minute that Bill Belicheat didn't know about it.......

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

It really isn't the event, but the fact that it was organizational cheating and a repeat offender at that.

In the judicial world "conspiracy to commit" carries an additional weight to the original charges. Multiple people knew about it. And if you think for a minute that Bill Belicheat didn't know about it.......

I think this is the point, it's not about exactly what they did, it's about that it's obvious that they aren't following all the rules, if you let this slide, then they will continue to push limits. I think you need to penalize them in some form of meaningful way to deter them from doing something again. It's the same as if a player has a history of doing something, the league will take that into consideration and fines and penalties will get more severe. I think New England has a well established history of cheating.

I'd agree it had no impact on the specific game, but if you think that was the first time they tried it you are fooling yourself.

[TheSultan]

I think this is the point, it's not about exactly what they did, it's about that it's obvious that they aren't following all the rules, if you let this slide, then they will continue to push limits. I think you need to penalize them in some form of meaningful way to deter them from doing something again. It's the same as if a player has a history of doing something, the league will take that into consideration and fines and penalties will get more severe. I think New England has a well established history of cheating.

I'd agree it had no impact on the specific game, but if you think that was the first time they tried it you are fooling yourself.


And if you think they are the only organization that does this, you are fooling yourself. Not that I don't think they shouldn't be punished, but I wouldn't be too excited about making an example out of them.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

And if you think they are the only organization that does this, you are fooling yourself. Not that I don't think they shouldn't be punished, but I wouldn't be too excited about making an example out of them.

They absolutely aren't, but if I'm the NFL and I want to make a big stink about the integrity of the game and "protecting the shield" then you have to make an example of it when it comes up.

[MUMac]

They absolutely aren't, but if I'm the NFL and I want to make a big stink about the integrity of the game and "protecting the shield" then you have to make an example of it when it comes up.

Sure sounds like he will be an example. Interesting, as this gives me the impression it may be bigger than most anticipated. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/myers-roger-goodell-suspend-tom-brady-deflategate-article-1.2215881

[IrwinFletcher]

They absolutely aren't, but if I'm the NFL and I want to make a big stink about the integrity of the game and "protecting the shield" then you have to make an example of it when it comes up.

The opportunity for the NFL to make a big stink about the integrity of the game has long since passed.....

[TedBaxter]

Leave Brady alone. According to some comments he made at a speech this week, he's faced a lot of adversity over the years. I know it's tough to decide whether to take out $150,000 or $200,000 for a weekends activities.

One of the most overrused words in professional sports is adversity. Do these guys even think about people who live day to day?

[CaribouJim]

Leave Brady alone. According to some comments he made at a speech this week, he's faced a lot of adversity over the years. I know it's tough to decide whether to take out $150,000 or $200,000 for a weekends activities.

One of the most overrused words in professional sports is adversity. Do these guys even think about people who live day to day?

THE most overused word in sports - not even close IMO.

[The Reptile]

My guess is fines and suspensions. First, it's the Patriots and after the Soygate stuff this looks like loss of institutional control to borrow a term from the NCAA. Second, the NFL can't be seen allowing the appearance of cheating or chaos will happen with other teams looking for any advantage.

Will the punishment fit the crime? No, but that's not at issue - integrity and fairness (in the league sense, not individual sense) is what this is about. What this looks like is Brady manipulating the staff and the NFL can't let that stand.

[MinnesotaJeb]

I get the idea that "rules are rules," and so players in any game need to follow the rules for the game to be fair, and so really a game. So if Brady and/or someone else of the Patriots knowingly broke rules, consequences should follow.

What I don't get is that, if the inflation parameters presently are such that some players find it difficult to work the ball well, why aren't those limits adjusted. What is so sacrosanct about the present limits? I could almost excuse Brady for thinking them mindless and unfair limits in the first place.

Yet honesty is still the ultimate good. To my mind, to some degree the NFL itself created the problem with the present set of parameters.

[Nukem2]

I get the idea that "rules are rules," and so players in any game need to follow the rules for the game to be fair, and so really a game. So if Brady and/or someone else of the Patriots knowingly broke rules, consequences should follow.

What I don't get is that, if the inflation parameters presently are such that some players find it difficult to work the ball well, why aren't those limits adjusted. What is so sacrosanct about the present limits? I could almost excuse Brady for thinking them mindless and unfair limits in the first place.

Yet honesty is still the ultimate good. To my mind, to some degree the NFL itself created the problem with the present set of parameters.

Yup, that's what I was suggesting earlier in this thread.

[Goose85]

Here is one article showing how the Patriots became almost fumble proof since the rule came into effect that teams could use their own balls.

I think the deflate gate helped the Pats control catch / hold the ball far more than you would think.

This team has a history of cheating, and that along with the lack of cooperation in the investigation led to severe penalty.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/warren-sharp/stats-show-the-new-englan_b_6555802.html