Round of 32-Saturday

[MU/Panther]

(W)14 Georgia State vs. 6 Xavier, 5:10,
TNT - Andrew Catalon, Steve Lappas, Jamie Erdahl

(E)8 NC State vs. 1 Villanova, 6:10,
TBS - Brian Anderson, Steve Smith, Dana Jacobson

(S)5 Utah vs. 4 Georgetown, 6:45,
CBS - Kevin Harlan, Reggie Miller, Dan Bonner, Rachel Nichols

(M)6 Butler vs. 3 Notre Dame, 8:40,
TBS - Brian Anderson, Steve Smith, Dana Jacobson

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I think the Big East walks away at 3-1 today... Another strong day I'm predicting... I'll say Xavier, Nova, and Georgetown advance to the sweet 16... Will be a tough matchup for Butler because Jones will still be hobbled and ND is pretty good, but afterall this is March so who knows!

[MU/Panther]

It stinks that most games are at night. While the day only has one game at a time going on. Thank god, I have two HD's in my "mancave'.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I like Butler, Villanova, and Xavier to advance. Georgetown again playing on a hostile court could be difficult.

[MU/Panther]

Villanova and Xavier are solid favorites by Vegas.

[MU/Panther]

Point Spreads
Xavier -6
Villanova - 9.5
Georgetown + 4.5
Butler + 3.5

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Xavier and Villanova in tough games so far. Xavier just can't pull away, though they're definitely the bigger, stronger team. Up 48-40, think they'll hold on but GSU is staying within striking distance.

Nova has looked bad. Dominated inside, but still tied. They are really good. Outplayed so far but still right there.

[mufan2003]

Not one to complain about refs, but Xavier is getting screwed by the zebras.

[TedBaxter]

WTF was that call on Dee Davis. Ref comes from the other side of the court for that?

[TedBaxter]

R.J. Hunter might be one of those guys who turns into a great pro.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

That foul on Dee Davis was awful. Xavier still in control, barring more Panther magic. Nova played awful in the first. Still think they should win, but they can't afford another half like that.

[MU/Panther]

Another Sweet 16 for Xavier!!

[MU/Panther]

Villanova has missed so many bunnies.

[mufan2003]

Villanova playing uncharacteristically soft. Can't look ahead.

[MU/Panther]

Villanova needs to go on a run, they are playing scared.

[MUAlphaBangura]

Man, first Providence, and now Villanova totally crapping the bed. Those performances are actually embarrassing the conference. Nova playing like a bunch of scared little girls.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Yeah, Nova is hard to watch right now. Rather embarrassing.

[Nukem2]

Nova getting clobbered on the boards...

[MU/Panther]

This is maddening

[pbiflyer]

Well, today is turning out not so well. Come on Butler!

[Nukem2]

Arcidiacono really has not played well recently

[mufan2003]

Nova with a lot of missed layups. Ochefu and Pinkston were outplayed around the basket.

[kneelb4zerg]

Really horrible by Nova.

[MU/Panther]

Disappointing

[Gato78]

Officiating beyond bad. Actually helped Nova at one point when Corbett called an absolutely phantom foul when he was outside and the action was directly in front of the underneath guy. Just saw maybe the worst call of tournament in Georgetown game. DSR gets hammered at the rim and ref called a travel whivh replay showed did not happen. WOW. This tourney officiating is the worst I have ever seen.

[TheSultan]

Really, does this board have to blame the officiating for everything?

Face it. The critics were right. The Big East was over seeded.

[kneelb4zerg]

Really, does this board have to blame the officiating for everything?

Face it. The critics were right. The Big East was over seeded.

No. They were seeded right. They just played bad in tourney.

Edit to say that even if Butler loses and then X Big east will be 5-6. Not awful. Nova losing is the real issue.

[TheSultan]

No. They were seeded right. They just played bad in tourney.


Just like last year. Perhaps the conference is overrated?

[kneelb4zerg]

@SethDavisHoops: You'll never hear me use NCAA tourney results to say a conference was good or not. If you want those answers let's do best of 7 each round.

[kneelb4zerg]

Just like last year. Perhaps the conference is overrated?

Overrated? They only had four teams in last year. One of which was in the play in round.

[warriorfan4life]

Just like last year. Perhaps the conference is overrated?

I see that you enjoy Doug Gottlieb's newsletter.

[TheSultan]

@SethDavisHoops: You'll never hear me use NCAA tourney results to say a conference was good or not. If you want those answers let's do best of 7 each round.


Pretty much everything Seth Davis says, I disagree with.

Look, this is exactly why I wasn't getting excited about a 4-0 Thursday. Second year in a row that the only BE wins are when they are the higher seed. During that time frame they have also lost four as the higher seed. (Unless Butler wins tonight.)

Not a coincidence.

[kneelb4zerg]

Pretty much everything Seth Davis says, I disagree with.

Look, this is exactly why I wasn't getting excited about a 4-0 Thursday. Second year in a row that the only BE wins are when they are the higher seed. During that time frame they have also lost four as the higher seed. (Unless Butler wins tonight.)

Not a coincidence.

Yeah, the idea that a one and done tournament produces upsets is so revolutionary. Go to bed, you are drunk.

[MUAlphaBangura]

Really, does this board have to blame the officiating for everything?

Face it. The critics were right. The Big East was over seeded.

I'm not blaming the officials for game outcomes, but if you are not sitting around watching these games and saying to yourself, "My God, there are some unbelievably bad calls", you can't know a lick about basketball. Some of the worst officiating I have ever seen and the only thing keeping them from being a factor in the Big East games has been the ineptitude of our Big East teams. The way they have played, they don't deserve a call.

[TheSultan]

Yeah, the idea that a one and done tournament produces upsets is so revolutionary. Go to bed, you are drunk.


Dude, don't be a dick. If you want to parrot Chicos' "crapshoot narrative" as an excuse, go right ahead. I'm sure that will go over well.

[MU/Panther]

Pretty much everything Seth Davis says, I disagree with.

Look, this is exactly why I wasn't getting excited about a 4-0 Thursday. Second year in a row that the only BE wins are when they are the higher seed. During that time frame they have also lost four as the higher seed. (Unless Butler wins tonight.)

Not a coincidence.
Utah was a 4.5 point favorite. Was the Big 12 overrated with Iowa State, Baylor, Oklahoma State and Texas losing. Maybe, maybe not. Is the Pac-12 now a great league.

[TheSultan]

I'm not blaming the officials for game outcomes, but if you are not sitting around watching these games and saying to yourself, "My God, there are some unbelievably bad calls", you can't know a lick about basketball. Some of the worst officiating I have ever seen and the only thing keeping them from being a factor in the Big East games has been the ineptitude of our Big East teams. The way they have played, they don't deserve a call.


There is bad refereeing all around. It is a chronic problem due to the nature of their employment.

But it hasn't adversely impacted the BE vis-a-vis any other conference.

[TheSultan]

Utah was a 4.5 point favorite. Was the Big 12 overrated with Iowa State, Baylor, Oklahoma State and Texas losing. Maybe, maybe not. Is the Pac-12 now a great league.


For the second year in a row, neither the BE regular season nor its tournament champion have made a S16.

That is a problem that I am not going to write off to the mere randomness of the NCAA tournament.

[Nukem2]

Big problem for BE is lack of height and leghth. Very obvious tonite.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

We all agree it sucks, but the simple reality is March is where league perceptions are formed. Nova losing undid all the good will we earned in November and December. Until the league shows up in March, the P5 will forever see us as mid major.

[MUAlphaBangura]

There is bad refereeing all around. It is a chronic problem due to the nature of their employment.

But it hasn't adversely impacted the BE vis-a-vis any other conference.

Um, what did I just say?

[Gato78]

Where did I blame the officiating for anything? I was commenting on the generally awful officiating this year. It has been pathetic. Reading comprehension or trying to construe my remarks to fit a narrative?


Really, does this board have to blame the officiating for everything?
Face it. The critics were right. The Big East was over seeded.

[TheSultan]

Um, what did I just say?


Ha. I was agreeing with you! Sorry for not making that more clear.

[kneelb4zerg]

Dude, don't be a dick. If you want to parrot Chicos' "crapshoot narrative" as an excuse, go right ahead. I'm sure that will go over well.

I'm not parroting a narrative from him or anybody. I could say that you are parroting a national media/the tournament is all that matters narrative.

I am only trying to place things in the proper perspective. In its second year the new Big East put six teams in the tournament. That's good. It will not advance as many teams to second weekend as we had hoped. That's bad. A 5-6 or so record is not horrible.

As the years go by, all the conferences have years where they perform well, or average, or bad in the tournament. Keep putting teams in the dance and our time will come. Hopefully with Marquette involved.

Seriously, don't accuse me of parroting Chicos again.

[TheSultan]

I'm not parroting a narrative from him or anybody. I could say that you are parroting a national media/the tournament is all that matters narrative.

I am only trying to place things in the proper perspective. In its second year the new Big East put six teams in the tournament. That's good. It will not advance as many teams to second weekend as we had hoped. That's bad. A 5-6 or so record is not horrible.

As the years go by, all the conferences have years where they perform well, or average, or bad in the tournament. Keep putting teams in the dance and our time will come. Hopefully with Marquette involved.

Seriously, don't accuse me of parroting Chicos again.


OK, that was clearly a low blow. :D

But for better or worse, this tournament is what counts when it comes to conference reputations. And for the second year in a row, the conference can't get its champions into the second weekend. For the second year in a row, assuming Butler loses tonight and Xavier next weekend, there will not be a single win where a BE team won as the lower seed.

That's bad.

[BLT]

Big problem for BE is lack of height and leghth. Very obvious tonite.

Bingo. It's a guard league...but it is hurt in the NCAA's on the frontline.

[MUAlphaBangura]

Butler back in it. Tied at 27. Maybe we can sneek 2 into the round of 16. Would that be acceptable, even if it wasn't our top 2?

[TheSultan]

Butler back in it. Tied at 27. Maybe we can sneek 2 into the round of 16. Would that be acceptable, even if it wasn't our top 2?


If Butler hangs on, I will admit that my rants were probably pre-mature.

I am just frustrated that Nova as a #1 seed gets bumped.

[kneelb4zerg]

If Butler hangs on, I will admit that my rants were probably pre-mature.

I am just frustrated that Nova as a #1 seed gets bumped.

I am too. Really awful performance from them.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Butler back in it. Tied at 27. Maybe we can sneek 2 into the round of 16. Would that be acceptable, even if it wasn't our top 2?

It would help, but Nova really hurt the league reputation today. We needed someone to go on a deep run, and it seems unlikely that will be Xavier or Butler, especially considering who they'll have to go through to get there.

[mufan2003]

I'm not parroting a narrative from him or anybody. I could say that you are parroting a national media/the tournament is all that matters narrative.

I am only trying to place things in the proper perspective. In its second year the new Big East put six teams in the tournament. That's good. It will not advance as many teams to second weekend as we had hoped. That's bad. A 5-6 or so record is not horrible.

As the years go by, all the conferences have years where they perform well, or average, or bad in the tournament. Keep putting teams in the dance and our time will come. Hopefully with Marquette involved.

Seriously, don't accuse me of parroting Chicos again.

I agree with this. Big East is 5-4 not counting what Butler does. Some predicted the Big East to go 1-5 on Thursday/Friday. This year we wanted more teams in the tourney, we got it. Nova was the huge letdown, obviously, but if the conference keeps recruiting well, we will eventually get some teams to advance deep.

It is time for MU to get back on the scene and make some noise.

[mufan2003]

I think Jay Wright is a great coach, and I understand trying to be calm and collected on the sideline, but at what point do you call a timeout and really get in your players' face, take your coat off, show some emotion? Villanova looked nervous to make mistakes, instead of confident and loose like they had in non-conference and conference play. Also, Villanova was playing in Pittsburgh, their home state, I did not notice (hear on TV) much support from their fans. I think of Dayton's fans last night, they gave Dayton a huge boost. Maybe Villanova fans were saving their trip for the Regionals in Syracuse.

I like what Jay Wright said postgame, they are disappointed, they will own it, and they will learn from it. Wright continues to recruit well. Very disappointing, but they are not going anywhere. Can't label Wright with the Pre-2014 Bo Ryan label, Wright made the Final 4 in 2009.

[MUBasketball]

Fellas, I got the bottle of Makers flowing pretty good right now after that Nova loss. If Butler loses I may just start taking pulls.

Not a good day at all.

[MU/Panther]

For the second year in a row, neither the BE regular season nor its tournament champion have made a S16.

That is a problem that I am not going to write off to the mere randomness of the NCAA tournament.
I agree, it's a tough pill to take.

[MU/Panther]

We all agree it sucks, but the simple reality is March is where league perceptions are formed. Nova losing undid all the good will we earned in November and December. Until the league shows up in March, the P5 will forever see us as mid major.
The atomis five, I will never use power, is more of a football thing, but unfortunately folks are using it for basketball. Your right, it sucks and hurts.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Bingo. It's a guard league...but it is hurt in the NCAA's on the frontline.

Providence had a considerable size advantage against Dayton - that didn't seem to do much for them.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Dunn had foul trouble from the first minute and their big two scorers shot like crap. Sometimes you just play terrible. Unfortunately for Villanova and Providence, they picked the worst time to be bad.

[kneelb4zerg]

Dunn had foul trouble from the first minute and their big two scorers shot like crap. Sometimes you just play terrible. Unfortunately for Villanova and Providence, they picked the worst time to be bad.

Not as annoyed at Providence given bad draw in Ohio v. Dayton. Nova has no excuse.

[MUAlphaBangura]

How do you even call that a jump ball???????? Amazingly bad!

[Nukem2]

How do you even call that a jump ball???????? Amazingly bad!Bizarre...

[mufan2003]

Dunham should have shot-faked, had enough time with 2 seconds.

[Nukem2]

Dunham should have shot-faked, had enough time with 2 seconds.

We knew it was going to Dunham...should have been to Jones with possible FTs...?

[MUBasketball]

Disappointing play when they had it with 20 seconds left and the shot clock off. Spread the floor for a Jones drive? I mean, c'mon.

Way too many f'ing timeouts in basketball. In hindsight, probably would have been better off just playing it out at the end. I bet they would have won the game in regulation.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Brutal showing for the big east, just brutal. Huge disappointment for the league - all the naysayers were proven right. Ugh this sucks!!

[mufan2003]

Notre Dame's first Sweet 16 since 2003, did not realize it had been that long.

[MUBasketball]

Really tough when the smartest, scrappiest dude on the floor jumps on a shot fake 3. C'mon dude, you're 5 foot nothing, what's the point of jumping anyway?

[MU/Panther]

Notre Dame's first Sweet 16 since 2003, did not realize it had been that long.
Don't remind me of Dylan Page's (UWM) missed lay up that would've beaten Notre Dame in the 1st round

[mufan2003]

Really tough when the smartest, scrappiest dude on the floor jumps on a shot fake 3. C'mon dude, you're 5 foot nothing, what's the point of jumping anyway?

For being a smart player, that was beyond stupid.

[Nukem2]

Brutal showing for the big east, just brutal. Huge disappointment for the league - all the naysayers were proven right. Ugh this sucks!!
Hold on, Xavier is in the Sweet 16........butler was right there and Nova, despite a bad night, coypuld have taken the lead with 15 or so so seconds to go but missed the shot. Providence, well that was ugly.

[MU/Panther]

Proud of Butler's effort and fight! Thank you, Xavier for making it to the Sweet 16.

[mufan2003]

Yeah, lets not get so dramatic. Butler was a #6 and lost to a #3. Georgetown was a #4 and lost to a #5. Villanova was what made it a horrible day for the Big East. Overall 5-5 and with Arizona likely defeating Xavier, quite likely 5-6. Not good, but not 1-6 as one basketball writer predicted. Lets not forget there were 9 ACC teams that did not even make the tournament.

[MUBasketball]

Hold on, Xavier is in the Sweet 16........butler was right there and Nova, despite a bad night, coypuld have taken the lead with 15 or so so seconds to go but missed the shot. Providence, well that was ugly.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference. The league is getting slammed tonight. Promising season for the league down the crapper in one day.

[mufan2003]

We knew it was going to Dunham...should have been to Jones with possible FTs...?

Sure, but there were only 2 seconds left, not a lot of time left for a drive.

[79warrior]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference. The league is getting slammed tonight. Promising season for the league down the crapper in one day.

Yep. Tend to agree. One team advances. Pretty weak showing.

[kneelb4zerg]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference. The league is getting slammed tonight. Promising season for the league down the crapper in one day.

Coulda woulda what? He is stating facts you tool.

[Mark Miller]

Big East ... 2-4 in NCAA a year ago.

Big East ... 5-5 with 1 team in Sweet 16 this year.

Awesome results? No, especially with Nova losing in 2nd round.

But an improvement from a year ago.

Further improvement necessary.

[warriorfan4life]

The league will continue to do better with the coaching and recruiting, and Marquette will be at the forefront of that (quite likely next year). Nova just had horrific luck tonight in four good shooters going a combined 0-14 from three (their normal 5 or so of those go in, they win comfortably). Any complaining from media members just enlightens me to their idiocy, and well there are a whole lot of idiots in the sports and college basketball media (a big reason why I never pursued a career in that despite it being my major).

[MUBasketball]

Coulda woulda what? He is stating facts you tool.

Dude, take some medication.

I'm an adult so let me respond like a grown up. If you were capable of understanding what I meant, I'm saying logic doesn't matter. The league is sending one team to the Sweet 16 and is getting crucified tonight. Close losses, seeds, location - to the vast majority this doesn't matter. That's just the reality of it.

[warriorfan4life]

Dude, take some medication.

I'm an adult so let me respond like a grown up. If you were capable of understanding what I meant, I'm saying logic doesn't matter. The league is sending one team to the Sweet 16 and is getting crucified tonight. Close losses, seeds, location - to the vast majority this doesn't matter. That's just the reality of it.

Most of the people crucifying the league are dumbasses. You can choose to listen to them, or be wise enough to ignore their drivel.

[MUBasketball]

Most of the people crucifying the league are dumbasses. You can choose to listen to them, or be wise enough to ignore their drivel.

I don't disagree with you. Lots of dumbasses pollute Twitter. However, perception is reality.

[kneelb4zerg]

Dude, take some medication.

I'm an adult so let me respond like a grown up. If you were capable of understanding what I meant, I'm saying logic doesn't matter. The league is sending one team to the Sweet 16 and is getting crucified tonight. Close losses, seeds, location - to the vast majority this doesn't matter. That's just the reality of it.

So you are using razor sharp logic to tell me logic is irrelevant. I expect better from those with an MU education. Sleep it off brah.

[MUBasketball]

So you are using razor sharp logic to tell me logic is irrelevant. I expect better from those with an MU education. Sleep it off brah.

Ha, whatever. Keep thinking today wasn't horrible for the league's reputation (which was my only point - this league is obviously good). I can't help you.

[warriorfan4life]

I don't disagree with you. Lots of dumbasses pollute Twitter. However, perception is reality.

Recruits have ignored perception, and perception is not paying our bills. Perception may matter ten years from now when our contract is up, but the media world will likely be totally different ten years from now anyway. Also, if there is one overwhelming positive of the selection committee, it is they will gladly ignore perception and put the best teams in the field.

[kneelb4zerg]

Ha, whatever. Keep thinking today wasn't horrible for the league's reputation (which was my only point - this league is obviously good). I can't help you.

I hope you enjoy living or dying based upon what Doug Gottlieb and Scott Van Pelt think of our league.

[Halo]

Question on last second miss by Jones in Butler game. Auguste double dribbled then. Can they check how much time was left when he did? Never saw a good replay with the clock on showing how much time was left. Even an extra 1.5 seconds would have been beneficial there to get a better look on a drive rather then a Dunham 3.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Okay...here's the thing for me. You can have a down year or two, but when you fail to produce repeatedly, it becomes more than bad luck, it's a trend. I mean, these results...

Villanova Since 2010

2010: Beat (15) Robert Morris in OT, Lose to (10) St. Mary's
2011: Lose to (8) George Mason
2013: Lose to (8) North Carolina
2014: Beat (15) Milwaukee, Lose to (7) Connecticut
2015: Beat (16) Lafayette, Lose to (10) NC State

Georgetown Since 2008

2008: Beat (15) UMBC, Lose to (10) Davidson
2010: Lose to (14) Ohio
2011: Lose to (11) VCU
2012: Beat (14) Belmont, Lose to (11) NC State
2013: Lose to (15) Florida Gulf Coast
2015: Beat (13) Eastern Washington, Lose to (5) Utah

So since their last Final Four appearances, Georgetown and Villanova are a combined 6-11 with the best win being GT over a 13-seed and 7/11 losses coming to double-digit seeds. Georgetown's run this year in terms of who they beat and who beat them is the best by either of the two schools that right now are really carrying the torch for the league.

It's easy to dismiss one year of results. Even two years you can dismiss. But since their Final Four appearances, we've seen 5 Tournaments of ineptitude from Villanova and 6 Tournaments of ineptitude from Georgetown. Is it just luck? Is it a crapshoot? Maybe, but they both seem to have an awful knack for shooting crap when the season is on the line. And we can make all the excuses we want (UConn won the title last year, VCU went to the Final Four, blah blah blah) but the reality is they continually get beat by worse seeds.

[MU/Panther]

But, they are both two coaches that took their schools to a Final Four.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Yeah, but those are being quickly forgotten. The problem is they didn't do it in the new Big East era. They did it when the league was great, with teams like UConn, Syracuse, and Louisville going to the Final Four regularly. We've gained the little brother perception, and their prolonged run of sub-par results only feeds into that.

[MU/Panther]

Yep, like Spencer Tillman says we live in a world of images and impressions.

[MinnesotaJeb]

[I][/

I don't understand the hand-wringing here. It's been a great year for BE basketball. 60% of the teams in the big dance, higher than any other conference in the country. Four move on with very solid wins. Though only one makes the sweet sixteen, the other three lose to terrific teams in close matches. After all, that's why they call it "March Madness.
So it's madness to start crying the sky is falling. If the BE was over-hyped, what about XII? Are we suddenly to conclude that league doesn't play basketball?
This is only the second year in the new BE. It's been a terrific year with a terrific non-conference record and all signs point to continuing that tradition.
I think we all knew that Nova depended too much on the three to be a shoo-in to go far in the tourney. I always thought that Jay Wright is too nice a guy. He may be a smart coach, but may not be able to convey the toughness to his players that's needed to win the big games.

[Nukem2]

[I][/

I don't understand the hand-wringing here. It's been a great year for BE basketball. 60% of the teams in the big dance, higher than any other conference in the country. Four move on with very solid wins. Though only one makes the sweet sixteen, the other three lose to terrific teams in close matches. After all, that's why they call it "March Madness.
So it's madness to start crying the sky is falling. If the BE was over-hyped, what about XII? Are we suddenly to conclude that league doesn't play basketball?
This is only the second year in the new BE. It's been a terrific year with a terrific non-conference record and all signs point to continuing that tradition.
I think we all knew that Nova depended too much on the three to be a shoo-in to go far in the tourney. I always thought that Jay Wright is too nice a guy. He may be a smart coach, but may not be able to convey the toughness to his players that's needed to win the big games.I think Nova is plenty tough. but an issue this year, other than the reliance on 3 point shooting, is the lack of depth re height and length. If Ochefu is not playing well or if he is in foul trouble, Nova hurts. He missed a lot of easy shots last night and was unable to corral some key rebounds. Also, Archie needs to play well and he had a tough night offensively last nite. The two combined had 3 of 15 last night. That's to overcome unless the 3 pointers are clicking.

[MU/Panther]

Villanova three worse shooting games, resulted in L's. Funny how that works.

[Nukem2]

Villanova three worse shooting games, resulted in L's. Funny how that works.Ochefu and Archie were 3-15 with only 3 attempts coming from 3 point land. NC State also outrebounded Nova 45-32. Nova also missed a lot of bunnies. This game was about more than just 3 point shooting.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Villanova has become Gonzaga. Good regular season team that wilts early in the tournament. Too much finesse. The guy that killed them last night was Ochefu, continually missing bunnies. Had the been able to score inside they would have been fine even with the poor shooting.

We need a new flagship program.

[Nukem2]

Villanova has become Gonzaga. Good regular season team that wilts early in the tournament. Too much finesse. The guy that killed them last night was Ochefu, continually missing bunnies. Had the been able to score inside they would have been fine even with the poor shooting.

We need a new flagship program.What we need are teams with some quality height, size and length. Ochefu was outnumbered last night. Wojo seems to be moving in the right direction in that regard.

[MU/Panther]

Ochefu and Archie were 3-15 with only 3 attempts coming from 3 point land. NC State also outrebounded Nova 45-32. Nova also missed a lot of bunnies. This game was about more than just 3 point shooting.
That's what I said. Not three's, three loses this year. Missing bunnies is still shooting %.

[warriorfan4life]

What we need are teams with some quality height, size and length. Ochefu was outnumbered last night. Wojo seems to be moving in the right direction in that regard.

Georgetown will have that next year, Providence will have a really good and complete team if Dunn comes back, we are adding nice size to go along with Luke, and Nova has a great post player coming in Omari Spellman (may even come for 2015).

Edit: Also like Reynolds and Farr at Xavier, and they have a top 100 player in Makinde London redshirting this year.

[MU/Panther]

Creighton has a nice 6'10 kid coming in Justin Patton.

[warriorfan4life]

Villanova has become Gonzaga. Good regular season team that wilts early in the tournament. Too much finesse. The guy that killed them last night was Ochefu, continually missing bunnies. Had the been able to score inside they would have been fine even with the poor shooting.

We need a new flagship program.

I like the Zags and Mark Few, but when they have a Sweet 16, Elite 8, Sweet 16, and Final Four within a five-year period get back to me. I know you are better then this and need to get off the ledge.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I'm talking about since that Final Four. When Nova is still playing the second weekend again, get back to me.

[warriorfan4life]

I'm talking about since that Final Four. When Nova is still playing the second weekend again, get back to me.

We will be in communication then right around March 20th, 2016.

[warriorfan4life]

How about the two-time defending ACC regular season champion going out in the second round (after going out in the Sweet 16 the year before)? Does not discredit what Virginia has done in the last two regular seasons.

[Nukem2]

How about the two-time defending ACC regular season champion going out in the second round (after going out in the Sweet 16 the year before)? Does not discredit what Virginia has done in the last two regular seasons.
Agreed. One and done tournaments can be tough. So much depends on match-ups, etc.

[warriorfan4life]

Agreed. One and done tournaments can be tough. So much depends on match-ups, etc.

And when the king of one and done tournaments (Izzo) coaches a style that ruins the game, it is tough to take that super seriously.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I agree that one and done can be brutal, but when you lose 5-6 times in a row to lower seeds, that's a trend. At the least it indicates there is something more there than bad matchups.

It feels like the Big East currently just isn't producing complete teams. Nova and Butler have good guards but not enough quality up front when people take away the three. Georgetown has strong front court guys, but rarely has enough quality guards. This year only Xavier and Providence were really balanced. Xavier is still dancing, Providence was undone by miserable shootingn

This is one thing I like about how Wojo is constructing his lineup. He has recruited a guy at every position. Need guys at both phases of the game to go far.

[kneelb4zerg]

I agree that one and done can be brutal, but when you lose 5-6 times in a row to lower seeds, that's a trend. At the least it indicates there is something more there than bad matchups.

It feels like the Big East currently just isn't producing complete teams. Nova and Butler have good guards but not enough quality up front when people take away the three. Georgetown has strong front court guys, but rarely has enough quality guards. This year only Xavier and Providence were really balanced. Xavier is still dancing, Providence was undone by miserable shootingn

This is one thing I like about how Wojo is constructing his lineup. He has recruited a guy at every position. Need guys at both phases of the game to go far.

Nova was a deserving number one seed. How much more complete could they have been?

[warriorfan4life]

Nova was a deserving number one seed. How much more complete could they have been?

Besides their shooters not hitting shots, Ochefu missed a number of good looks that he normally converts. Just played their worst game of the year at the absolute worst time. I believe that their subtle shift away from Pinkston on offense hurt the team and their balance on offense, but expect the presence of Omari Spellman to change that (and if Spellman does not enroll this year, I believe that Ochefu will be a bigger part of the offense).

[Mucrisco]

And when the king of one and done tournaments (Izzo) coaches a style that ruins the game, it is tough to take that super seriously.

1) How is Izzo the king of one and done tournaments?
2) How is his style ruining the game?

[warriorfan4life]

1) How is Izzo the king of one and done tournaments?
2) How is his style ruining the game?

Look at all the praise for him and his March exploits after their win today.

I'll expound much more on number two. His success and subsequent emulation from competitors has made college basketball frequently unwatchable. All of the clutching and grabbing on defense and fouling that gets uncalled is the hallmark of the Izzo defense. The refs do not have the stomach to call fouls on every possession, so only the most blatant fouls are called. When college basketball made a well intentioned if not half-hearted attempt to clean up the game by calling fouls on all the bumping and grabbing, Izzo was leading the protests against the refs actually following the rulebook.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Nova was a deserving number one seed. How much more complete could they have been?

They were, without a doubt, a deserving 1-seed. But when the shots didn't fall they had no recourse.

The tournament IS about matchups. But teams like Izzo has are great at exploiting them because he always has good guards and versatile bigs. They play great defense, but have both the discipline to play slow and enough athleticism to play up tempo. The great tourney coaches have teams that can both exploit matchups but are somewhat matchup proof because they can adapt and play the way their opponent wants.

I usually hate him, but Barkley is talking about it now. The Big East is full of teams that always play their system and win with it. In the Tournament, you need to be able to win multiple ways.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

And not saying I love Izzo's style, but his teams are never limited to guard scoring, or wing scoring, or low post scoring. They always seem to have options in all phases of the game.

[Mucrisco]

Look at all the praise for him and his March exploits after their win today.

I'll expound much more on number two. His success and subsequent emulation from competitors has made college basketball frequently unwatchable. All of the clutching and grabbing on defense and fouling that gets uncalled is the hallmark of the Izzo defense. The refs do not have the stomach to call fouls on every possession, so only the most blatant fouls are called. When college basketball made a well intentioned if not half-hearted attempt to clean up the game by calling fouls on all the bumping and grabbing, Izzo was leading the protests against the refs actually following the rulebook.

1) I'm still not sure what you mean by one and done tournaments. Do you mean that Izzo has a history of winning the first game and doesn't reach the Sweet 16?

2) Seems like a matter of preference. Many coaches I know admire the way that Izzo's teams play. His all-access practice is one of the most popular DVD's. Teaching kids how to work hard and make the most out of the talent you are given seems like a good message to me.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

1) Pretty sure he means single elimination tournaments.

[Mucrisco]

1) Pretty sure he means single elimination tournaments.

Aaaah gotcha. Thanks.

[MUMac]

Aaaah gotcha. Thanks.

Yeah, it took me a couple of looks to get the meaning.

[Nukem2]

1) Pretty sure he means single elimination tournaments.
Yeah, one and done is obviously colloquial for single elimination, which is rather stodgy sounding... :)

[Mucrisco]

Yeah, one and done is obviously colloquial for single elimination, which is rather stodgy sounding... :)

My mind is fried. I can't remember anything right now. I think I've watched too much TV. It's that time of year...

[Markedman]

I know the committee has a tough job but watching this Dayton/OU game I can't believe that Dayton is playing basically it's 3rd straight pseudo home game.....2 of them against higher seeds.

[MUBasketball]

C'mon Dayton, pull this out!!! That would leave West Virginia as the lone Big 12 team remaining, and a loss to Maryland would mean zero Big 12 teams in the Sweet 16.

After Wichita routed Kansas I've already sent a tweet to Jon Rothstein in response to his "whole different kind of cattle" in the ACC tweet last night after Nova lost to NC State. I'm hoping to send another with a Dayton win!

[Markedman]

C'mon Dayton, pull this out!!! That would leave West Virginia as the lone Big 12 team remaining, and a loss to Maryland would mean zero Big 12 teams in the Sweet 16.

After Wichita routed Kansas I've already sent a tweet to Jon Rothstein in response to his "whole different kind of cattle" in the ACC tweet last night after Nova lost to NC State. I'm hoping to send another with a Dayton win!

I don't get it? He said something positive about the ACC and you are responding after Big 12 losses? What does the Big 12 have to do with the ACC?

Maybe I misunderstood you?

Pretty hard to argue that hat the ACC has been the class conference so far. Pac 12 has been pretty impressive as well.

[warriorfan4life]

For the whole of the season, the Big 12 and Big East are the two best leagues (in that order). When the bottom third of the ACC stops resembling the Southern Conference, I'll take their vote as the best league.

[MUBasketball]

I don't get it? He said something positive about the ACC and you are responding after Big 12 losses? What does the Big 12 have to do with the ACC?

Maybe I misunderstood you?

Pretty hard to argue that hat the ACC has been the class conference so far. Pac 12 has been pretty impressive as well.

Yeah, ACC and Pac 12 have been incredible.

Point is, he slams the Big East when their champion lost last night. Today, Big 12's champion gets pounded by a "mid major" Wichita State. That eliminated 5 of the Big 12's 7 teams in the tournament. I would think if he's being fair and objective that would also be worthy of the same smart ass crap he was saying last night.

[MU/Panther]

I think Kansas fans are getting sick of Marv Albert doing there games. They get bounced.

[kneelb4zerg]

I stopped following Rothstein bc I couldn't handle another 'Death. Taxes. Bo Ryan.' tweet.

[MUBasketball]

I stopped following Rothstein bc I couldn't handle another 'Death. Taxes. Bo Ryan.' tweet.

I'm convinced he's a virgin.

[Halo]

Amazing what a dumb team Oregon is. Just chucking up 18 footers with noone to rebound. Badgers will blow them out with this game plan. How can a coach be this dumb after playing them already once?

[Nukem2]

Amazing what a dumb team Oregon is. Just chucking up 18 footers with noone to rebound. Badgers will blow them out with this game plan. How can a coach be this dumb after playing them already once?
This is not the same Oregon team as last year. Lots of changes along with the assualt charges. This team is basically Young, Cook and leftovers....

[Halo]

This is not the same Oregon team as last year. Lots of changes along with the assualt charges. This team is basically Young, Cook and leftovers....

Same coach though. How many shots outside of the paint that are not 3's does UW take? It's either a 3 or in the paint. Pretty simple. UW gives you the 17 footer all game, but will not let you shoot the 3's if possible.

[MayorBeluga]

I'm convinced he's a virgin.

Rothstein or Bo?

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

For the whole of the season, the Big 12 and Big East are the two best leagues (in that order). When the bottom third of the ACC stops resembling the Southern Conference, I'll take their vote as the best league.

I think ACC fans would say when the top 1/3 of the Big East stops resembling the Pac 12 they will take your vote as to what is the best league.

What would you rather have a league with a great 1/3, solid 1/3 and bad 1/3 or a league with a good 8/10 and a bad 2/10? I'd take the former ten times out of ten and it's not even close imo.

[MU/Panther]

Jon Rothstein gives one of the best information out there. When he speaks his mind about things is when things go south.

[warriorfan4life]

I think ACC fans would say when the top 1/3 of the Big East stops resembling the Pac 12 they will take your vote as to what is the best league.

What would you rather have a league with a great 1/3, solid 1/3 and bad 1/3 or a league with a good 8/10 and a bad 2/10? I'd take the former ten times out of ten and it's not even close imo.

See, give me depth. Want as many partners as possible to be strong.

[MU/Panther]

This is not the same Oregon team as last year. Lots of changes along with the assualt charges. This team is basically Young, Cook and leftovers....
Don't forget Bill Walton's favorite in Snoop Dog.

[Markedman]

Zags are really good......hope this is the year they make f4

[TedBaxter]

Love Sabonis as an NBA prospect.

[MU/Panther]

Good for Len Elmore calling out Bo Ryan for being an ass to Lewis Johnson.

[Mucrisco]

The Big East and the Big 12 are not the two best conferences. This isn't college football. Forget about the RPI and all the computer crap. You want to be peaking at the end of the year and you want to win on the court when it matters. I'd rather tell someone that I'm better because I beat them, rather than some computer telling meI'm better. The tournament is what matters, not the RPI.

[kneelb4zerg]

The Big East and the Big 12 are not the two best conferences. This isn't college football. Forget about the RPI and all the computer crap. You want to be peaking at the end of the year and you want to win on the court when it matters. I'd rather tell someone that I'm better because I beat them, rather than some computer telling meI'm better. The tournament is what matters, not the RPI.

But we did beat them - in Nov/Dec.

[MUwarrior1090]

The Big East and the Big 12 are not the two best conferences. This isn't college football. Forget about the RPI and all the computer crap. You want to be peaking at the end of the year and you want to win on the court when it matters. I'd rather tell someone that I'm better because I beat them, rather than some computer telling meI'm better. The tournament is what matters, not the RPI.

So one game between 2 unfamiliar teams decides which conference is better? I'll take the whole non conference season when conferences are constantly tested against each other.

[warriorfan4life]

So I take it that November-February does not matter? The most popular sports league in the world (English Premier League) crowns a champion without playoffs.

[MU/Panther]

This isn't college football. Forget about the RPI and all the computer crap. I.

College football doesn't have the BCS anymore.

[Nukem2]

College football doesn't have the BCS anymore.
Still have some BS however in its selection process :)

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

So I take it that November-February does not matter? The most popular sports league in the world (English Premier League) crowns a champion without playoffs.

It does, and I'm a fan of how it's handled over there, but American audiences are different and judge by the finish, not the start. I do think there's definitely some fool's gold with how much we value playoffs, but it is what it is.

[TheSultan]

So I take it that November-February does not matter? The most popular sports league in the world (English Premier League) crowns a champion without playoffs.


That's not here though where playoffs are what matters.

[kneelb4zerg]

It does, and I'm a fan of how it's handled over there, but American audiences are different and judge by the finish, not the start. I do think there's definitely some fool's gold with how much we value playoffs, but it is what it is.

Really I think you are overdoing this and going too far worrying about the common person/ESPN perception of our league. As long as we keep recruiting well the league will be fine. A potential recruit is not going to be persuaded but what media hacks say. The decision is much more nuanced and personal. And I don't think recruits listen to sports talk radio.

[Mucrisco]

This is college basketball not soccer. It matters to the kids. The journey is really what matters for them. But for the fans, you talked to the average fan and they will tell you who did well in the march. Let's go back to that thread that talked about the losses that still haunt them. How many people talked about the tournament and how many people talked about the regular season?

[Mucrisco]

College football doesn't have the BCS anymore.

The regular season is a bigger deal in college football. You need to do that to get into the playoffs.

My point about the RPI is, who cares if a computer says your better. Results on the court are what matters. That's why the tournament is a bigger deal.

[MU/Panther]

Still have some BS however in its selection process :)
It wasn't computers.

[mufansince72]

If Bucky plays like they did tonight UNC will blow them out of the gym.

[Markedman]

I think sports nerds(like us) spend way too much time worrying about our conference is better then your conference.....2 weeks from now nobody will care. Gonzaga and Wichita State aren't worried about conference strength....just play good basketball and win a bunch of games and things will work out fine.

[MU/Panther]

The regular season is a bigger deal in college football. You need to do that to get into the playoffs.

My point about the RPI is, who cares if a computer says your better. Results on the court are what matters. That's why the tournament is a bigger deal.
Well you need data to select the 36 at-large, so you need a tool like the RPI.

[Markedman]

Well you need data to select the 36 at-large, so you need a tool like the RPI.

And it's kind of hard to have a high RPI without winning a lot of games on the court against good teams

[Markedman]

So it looks like the Big 10 will have 2 sweet 16 teams.....same for the Big 12.....pac 12 with 3.....ACC with an impressive 5 if Louisville holds on

[Halo]

Really a shame as the Big East could have had 4. Thought Butler was going to pull that off in regulation. Nova with a complete failure and Georgetown just fell apart.

[Markedman]

All 16 teams left are in the top 21 of the Sagarin ratings........http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sagarin/2015/team/

[MUMac]

NCST is 26th and UCLA is 33rd.

[Mucrisco]

I'm curious. What is the list of impressive non conference wins the Big East had during the season. I am talking tournament teams. Going through quickly, I see Indiana, Oklahoma, Notre Dame and North Carolina. You could probably add VCU in there. SFA and Robert Morris were tournament teams. I wonder how that compares to other conferences. Was the Big East just beating up on bottom feeders of the Major conferences and that's why the non conference record vs major conferences looks good?

[Nukem2]

In hindsight, even Nova's NC wins (13-0) are not that notable: Lehigh, MD-Eastern Shore, Bucknell, VCU, Michigan, Delaware, LaSalle, St. Joe's, Illinois, Temple, Syracuse, NJIT, and Penn. Obviously slippage by Michigan and Cuse hurt, but...

[warriorfan4life]

St. John's and Nova beat Syracuse (ineligible for the tournament, likely would have been somewhere among the last four in the tourney or one the first four to eight teams out of the tourney). Villanova beat Illinois (NIT) and Michigan (likely just missed NIT, but this was before Caris LaVert and Derrick Walton were injured). Georgetown beat Florida (who was uncharacteristically down, but also terribly unlucky and still rated in the top 50 of the Pomeroys much of the year). DePaul beat Stanford (NIT).

[Markedman]

NCST is 26th and UCLA is 33rd.

Clearly I can't count......;)

[Mucrisco]

Thanks. After the non conference portion of the season, is there typically movement in the conference RPIs?

[warriorfan4life]

Thanks. After the non conference portion of the season, is there typically movement in the conference RPIs?

Conference RPI remains static, but the Pomeroy Ratings account for the postseason. We remain second in those rankings, but the ACC likely overtakes us unless their teams fall flat on their face in the next couple of rounds. Last season's crappy postseason showing knocked the Big East from fourth to sixth in the final Pomeroy Ratings.

[Mucrisco]

So, when discussing how conferences compare, is it fair to say that the only two periods that matter are the non conference portion and the tournament?

[MUMac]

So, when discussing how conferences compare, is it fair to say that the only two periods that matter are the non conference portion and the tournament?

Yes. I also share your skepticism, if you will, about how conferences are rated. Teams change drastically over the season. Beating someone in the non-conference season does not necessarily translate to being the better team in March. That would hold true for conferences, as well.

[Mucrisco]

Yes. I also share your skepticism, if you will, about how conferences are rated. Teams change drastically over the season. Beating someone in the non-conference season does not necessarily translate to being the better team in March. That would hold true for conferences, as well.

I agree. Freshmen are no longer freshmen. Coaches want their teams to be playing their best basketball. They have all their stuff in(offenses, defenses, OOB plays etc) Heck, if you run a motion offense, your team will not be playing cohesively until around the end of December. Teams that run set plays may have an advantage in the early season, but that gets negated by March.