Meanwhile over in the Atlantic 10

[TheSultan]

The SLU doomsayers look like they may have been right. They are 1-7 in conference right now with only 0-8 Fordham behind them.

[MU88]

Not exactly shocking. Crews is a poor recruiter. Not much left after last year. Attendance is down around 17%. Unfortunately with Rick gone, SLU has to start all over.

[MUBasketball]

Easy to say this now, although many people thought at the time that Crews was not the right choice for the permanent gig.

I'm probably way higher on him than most people, but if things don't improve next year they should bring Drew Diener back to campus to take over.

[TheSultan]

Easy to say this now, although many people thought at the time that Crews was not the right choice for the permanent gig.

I'm probably way higher on him than most people, but if things don't improve next year they should bring Drew Diener back to campus to take over.


He's probably a step away from that level. For instance, if Jeter is out after this year, UWM would be a good logical step.

[warriorfan4life]

I think SLU should take a hard look at Wardle in the offseason, and that would be a nice gig for Wardle to take as a transition to the high-major level (and yes, I think the A-10 is a mid-major under the current structure).

[MU/Panther]

A-10 is a weird league, as half the league is a mid-major and other are high majors.

[IWB]

I think SLU should take a hard look at Wardle in the offseason, and that would be a nice gig for Wardle to take as a transition to the high-major level (and yes, I think the A-10 is a mid-major under the current structure).

I may be wrong, but with Wojo getting the MU job instead of him, I would be shocked if he didn't have his sights set on DePaul.

[Gato78]

Oliver Purnell isn't getting fired. They are having the best season they have had in years.

[warriorfan4life]

If I was Wardle, I would try to find an A-10/American level gig, and then go to a high-major opening. He would be a strong choice for DePaul, but not sure if going to DePaul is the right move for him. I can understand being disappointed in not getting the Marquette job, but really feel like he would be a good candidate next time it is open.

[IWB]

Oliver Purnell isn't getting fired. They are having the best season they have had in years.

I wasn't suggesting that Purnell was getting fired this year, but I do wonder if he will be retained after his contract is up?

[MU/Panther]

Why is Wardle going anywhere. Green Bay will crab their pants like they always do in March.

[unclejohn]

Was Wardle a serious candidate for the Marquette job? I thought he was given pretty much a courtesy interview. I think he is a fine young coach and he is on his way up, but I do not see him as being ready to take on a program at this level this early in his career. As for DePaul, I think it depends. Brian has a pretty nice situation at GB. He has what he needs to compete in the league, and last year he had the best team. He might have a shot at bigger jobs in the near future, especially if he can get his team into the tournament and win a game or two. DePaul has been the graveyard of coaches for a long time. I can see the appeal of returning to Chicago and stepping up, but I am not sure it is a good position.

[TheSultan]

Was Wardle a serious candidate for the Marquette job? I thought he was given pretty much a courtesy interview. I think he is a fine young coach and he is on his way up, but I do not see him as being ready to take on a program at this level this early in his career. As for DePaul, I think it depends. Brian has a pretty nice situation at GB. He has what he needs to compete in the league, and last year he had the best team. He might have a shot at bigger jobs in the near future, especially if he can get his team into the tournament and win a game or two. DePaul has been the graveyard of coaches for a long time. I can see the appeal of returning to Chicago and stepping up, but I am not sure it is a good position.


Yeah, I think he needs to string together a couple good years - and he loses his top two scorers after this year.

[Markedman]

I think making at least 1 NCAA tournament would be a good start for Brian....

[Nukem2]

I think making at least 1 NCAA tournament would be a good start for Brian....Yes, would think that would be a "requisite" for a Mid-Major coach to move up. I'm sure there are some that have moved up to a "high major" w/o that, but those are probably the exceptions.

[Goose85]

Yes, would think that would be a "requisite" for a Mid-Major coach to move up. I'm sure there are some that have moved up to a "high major" w/o that, but those are probably the exceptions.

One of the exceptions was Bo Ryan.
Coached at UWM for two years and barely had a winning record in his two seasons.
Of course he had a long history of winning at the D3 level.

[warriorfan4life]

I think making at least 1 NCAA tournament would be a good start for Brian....

This is why I think Brian should take an intermediary job in a league outside the top six, but where you can realistically earn an at-large bid. Green Bay should put together back-to-back strong records, but they are playing in a one-bid league. This season, they have an equal in Valaparaiso that they will have to topple to make the NCAA's.

[Mark Miller]

Why is Wardle going anywhere. Green Bay will crab their pants like they always do in March.

If I recall correctly, Green Bay did not play with Keifer Sykes in the CBI and he played with a serious injury against Milwaukee last season in the Horizon Tournament. Pretty devastating to lose your best player in March.

[MU/Panther]

He got hurt versus Milwaukee, but returned. It was in the NIT they lost to Belmont. Todd Kowalczyk had a solid team as a 2 seed and got bounce right away just like last year. Last time Green Bay was in the tournament was 1996 and I think they haven't played in a title game since the late 90's.

[Gato78]

Both Alec Brown and Kiefer Sykes were injured for Horizon League Tournament.

[Nukem2]

Both Alec Brown and Kiefer Sykes were injured for Horizon League Tournament.
That's my recollection. That was a huge break for UWM.

[MU/Panther]

UWM smoked Green Bay at Green Bay in the regular season with Sykes and Brown. Injurys are part of the game, everyone has pains playing in March. It's a long year now in the world of college basketball with 31 regular season games.

[Nukem2]

UWM smoked Green Bay at Green Bay in the regular season with Sykes and Brown. Injurys are part of the game.
Irrelevant. The discussion is about the tourney game. Also, I believe Bown was hurt for the other game as well...?

[MUAlphaBangura]

Is this the part where we pretend UWM was a better team than UW-Green Bay last season?

[MU/Panther]

Irrelevant. The discussion is about the tourney game. Also, I believe Bown was hurt for the other game as well...?
Why is irrelevant, cause you said so. Please.

[MU/Panther]

Is this the part where we pretend UWM was a better team than UW-Green Bay last season?
They did beat them 2 of 3 last year and got the biggest prize, the auto bid to the dance in a win at Wright State. That's like saying UCONN wasn't the best last year. Why play the games then.

[Nukem2]

They did beat them 2 of 3 last year and got the biggest prize, the auto bid to the dance in a win at Wright State. That's like saying UCONN wasn't the best last year. Why play the games then.
Hey, this is an MU board. Don't expect a lot of Panther love here. At least GB has Wardle. :)

[warriorfan4life]

They did beat them 2 of 3 last year and got the biggest prize, the auto bid to the dance in a win at Wright State. That's like saying UCONN wasn't the best last year. Why play the games then.

No way in hell was UConn the best team last year (finished 8th in final Pomeroy rankings and 6th in final Sagarin ratings). They won six straight games in a single elimination tournament. In their own league, Louisville beat them three times by double figures. Hell, the 2011 UConn national champions were also not the best team (went 9-9 in conference play).

[MU/Panther]

True, but none of that matters because they won the title.

[TheSultan]

No way in hell was UConn the best team last year (finished 8th in final Pomeroy rankings and 6th in final Sagarin ratings). They won six straight games in a single elimination tournament.


From a competitive perspective, the regular season in American sports exists solely to determine the qualification and seeding for a tournament. So saying that Team A, who has a great regular season but flops in the tournament, is better than Team B, who barely gets into the tournament but wins it all, is largely nonsensical because it is completely irrelevant. The 2011 Green Bay Packers may have had a better regular season than the 2010 Packers, but it is hard to claim that the former overall was "better" since the latter won the Super Bowl.

This isn't European soccer where the "champion" is determined by regular season performance.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Dayton still looks solid. While I'd rather not add, they'd be at the top of my list. Good coach, great crowds, and a philosophical match

[MUBasketball]

Dayton still looks solid. While I'd rather not add, they'd be at the top of my list. Good coach, great crowds, and a philosophical match

And Dayton has been consistently successful over the past number of years with Purnell, Gregory, and now Miller.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

And Dayton has been consistently successful over the past number of years with Purnell, Gregory, and now Miller.

Yup. I get the perception some have of them. Not a huge school, not a ton of NCAA success, but they've been consistently competitive with numerous coaches. Their fans get out in support and they do put enough money into the program to keep it competitive. At this point, aside from market size, I'd say they'd be more of an asset than DePaul. I do also like that they host the First Four. Maybe not a huge deal, but it annually would get some additional, if modest, attention for the league.

[Goose85]

At this point I really like the 10 team round robin schedule.
Sure playing everyone twice can be a disadvantage where an unbalanced schedule can be an advantage (like Wisconsin only playing Maryland, Ohio State, Mich State, etc once, while getting teams Northwestern, Minn, Neb, Penn State twice).

Any new addition would need to result in Fox Sports upping the total tv ante for the conference. Would adding Dayton bring in an extra million to each Big East school? Would Dayton help solidify the perception of the Big East as a major, and not mid-major conference? Not picking on Dayton, add any school.

No need to add unless the new school brings each existing school more revenue, brings the conference more prestige, or brings something else to the table that benefits the conference, like lacrosse and baseball teams that helps the overall athletic makeup of the conference.

Depending on the direction the Big East wants to take, I'm not sure there are many non football playing schools out there I'd be interested in right now.

[MU/Panther]

Yup. I get the perception some have of them. Not a huge school, not a ton of NCAA success, but they've been consistently competitive with numerous coaches. Their fans get out in support and they do put enough money into the program to keep it competitive. At this point, aside from market size, I'd say they'd be more of an asset than DePaul. I do also like that they host the First Four. Maybe not a huge deal, but it annually would get some additional, if modest, attention for the league.

The TV rating market is huge in Dayton for college football and college basketball. Many times I get listing of the top 10 markets for an event and I see Dayton listed many times.

I'm fine at 10 schools, still. ;)

[MUBasketball]

We're all in favor of staying at 10 schools, right?

[TheSultan]

We're all in favor of staying at 10 schools, right?


For now. If it helps the perception of the conference to add a couple more down the line than I would be fine with that. For instance, if Gonzaga was located in Denver or Birmingham instead of Spokane, I would have no trouble inviting them in.

Perceived conference quality is more important than a round-robin schedule IMO.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I'd rather stay at 10 than add for the sake of it. I wouldn't be opposed to additions as long as they were sensible.

[Mucrisco]

I would rather add teams, but that's just a personal preference. I'd rather see different styles of play. I like breaking down the games according to the X's and O's and I would rather watch a variety of teams. As always, my criteria to add is:
1) Cool or famous arena
2) Support from the administration
3) Support from the fans

In my opinion, that along with the Big East is the recipe for teams becoming consistent high major teams. I've always said that Dayton and Wichita St fit these criteria the best and I'll stick, with those teams.

BTW, the NCAA just Dayton one of the Top Five most passionate fans.

http://www.ncaa.com/video/basketball-men/2015-02-03/high-five-most-passionate-college-basketball-fans

[Nukem2]

I would rather add teams, but that's just a personal preference. I'd rather see different styles of play. I like breaking down the games according to the X's and O's and I would rather watch a variety of teams. As always, my criteria to add is:
1) Cool or famous arena
2) Support from the administration
3) Support from the fans

In my opinion, that along with the Big East is the recipe for teams becoming consistent high major teams. I've always said that Dayton and Wichita St fit these criteria the best and I'll stick, with those teams.

BTW, the NCAA just Dayton one of the Top Five most passionate fans.

http://www.ncaa.com/video/basketball-men/2015-02-03/high-five-most-passionate-college-basketball-fansI would agree. Wichita St. In particular. Otherwise, VCU or Dayton would be nice. Give the league more critical mass. Round-robin schedules are nice, but I'm not hung up on that.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

A 12 team league with divisions could have a nice 16 game schedule. Home and home with the 5 other teams in your division, alternate home and away yearly with the other division. That way you build rivalries within division and still play everyone every year.

East: Villanova, Georgetown, Providence, St John's, Seton Hall

West: Marquette, DePaul, Creighton, Butler, Xavier, Dayton

Personally, I would like to keep Dayton and Xavier together if we added them. I'd also like to keep the original five East Coast teams together. I know geography can't be the only factor, but it sure makes VCU look attractive. I'm sure those East Coast teams would rather someone closer to home too.

[warriorfan4life]

The only schools that the Big East should move off of 10 for are UConn and Notre Dame. The rest do not add enough extra value or are logistically impossible (Gonzaga).

[TheSultan]

The only schools that the Big East should move off of 10 for are UConn and Notre Dame. The rest do not add enough extra value or are logistically impossible (Gonzaga).


For now...yes.

But who knows what the next 5-10 years brings.

[MUMac]

The only schools that the Big East should move off of 10 for are UConn and Notre Dame. The rest do not add enough extra value or are logistically impossible (Gonzaga).

I agree with this. I also agree with Sultan's response below yours. These are the only two (or I could add Cincy and Louisville) that I would consider at the present. That is why a wait and see approach works perfectly fine right now. Sit tight and see what else happens down the road.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I don't want anyone with D1 football or they'll always be tempted to chase the carrot. Notre Dame might be the one exception due to their football independence.

[Nukem2]

I don't want anyone with D1 football or they'll always be tempted to chase the carrot. Notre Dame might be the one exception due to their football independence.
Yep. Those schools are pipe dreams anyway. FB is simply more important to them ($$$$$$).

[MU/Panther]

Yep. Those schools are pipe dreams anyway. FB is simply more important to them ($$$$$$).
Basketball is so much of a after thought when comparing to football.

[79warrior]

I don't want anyone with D1 football or they'll always be tempted to chase the carrot. Notre Dame might be the one exception due to their football independence.


There is no chance ND leaves the ACC. Please.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

There is no chance ND leaves the ACC. Please.

No chance, I agree, I was just addressing wf4l mentioning UConn and ND.

[warriorfan4life]

I agree that there is little chance that ND leaves the ACC or UConn gives up on FBS football in the near future, and therefore want no part of expanding the league. That is the level of school it should take to change the current awesome set-up. Do not believe that it is in a coincidence that 2 of the top 3 leagues this year are 10 team leagues (and will likely put in 13-14 teams in the NCAA Tournament).

[unclejohn]

UConn does not fit the profile, both because of football and because it is public. The original BE was designed to be both public and private, and centered on men's basketball. The explosion of football only emphasized the differences between public and private schools. Different funding, different size, different missions. I think the schools together today all fit each other and the administrators understand each other. So UConn is out. Louisville has no desire to go anywhere. Cincinnati does, but not to the Big East.

Notre Dame is not so crazy, and when the Catholic 7 split from the Big East, they seriously considered going along. Then decided against it because the ACC was a better fit for their other sports. The managed to work out an acceptable deal for football. I think they could have fit, but now that they are in the ACC, I do not see them going anywhere. I still think the formula for expansion is Saint Louis and....

[MUBasketball]

Would have been huge if Notre Dame had joined the new Big East.

[Goose85]

Would have been huge if Notre Dame had joined the new Big East.

Notre Dame needed the ACC's bowl ties to ensure they would get invited to bowls. That will prevent them from moving anywhere.

[MU88]

I still think the formula for expansion is Saint Louis and....

I don't think there is a formula for expansion right now. None of the alleged candidates bring anything to the table. SLU, Dayton, VCU, etc. bring little in the way of fanbases, market penetration or strengthening the conference from a basketball perspective. The tv contract for entire A-10 is about the same as for 1 BE school per year. Hence, it seems like the BE conference is has come to this realization that the A-10 schools provide little value and they are happy at 10.

Now, I think the BE would expand if say UC and UConn wanted to join. Yeah, there is the football issue, but those schools have long histories with the BE schools. It would be mutually beneficial for both the schools and the conference. Plus, if they do get into a BCS conference someday, the BE can protect itself with huge exit fees. Trouble is, neither school will drop football, so they are somewhat stick in their situation, not wanted by the BCS but a step above CUSA, Sun Belt and MAC. Unless something creative comes along, I don't see this scenario playing out. So, I think the BE will be at 10 for the long haul.

[TheSultan]

I don't think there is a formula for expansion right now. None of the alleged candidates bring anything to the table. SLU, Dayton, VCU, etc. bring little in the way of fanbases, market penetration or strengthening the conference from a basketball perspective. The tv contract for entire A-10 is about the same as for 1 BE school per year. Hence, it seems like the BE conference is has come to this realization that the A-10 schools provide little value and they are happy at 10.

Now, I think the BE would expand if say UC and UConn wanted to join. Yeah, there is the football issue, but those schools have long histories with the BE schools. It would be mutually beneficial for both the schools and the conference. Plus, if they do get into a BCS conference someday, the BE can protect itself with huge exit fees. Trouble is, neither school will drop football, so they are somewhat stick in their situation, not wanted by the BCS but a step above CUSA, Sun Belt and MAC. Unless something creative comes along, I don't see this scenario playing out. So, I think the BE will be at 10 for the long haul.


The only way I see BE expansion coming is if a television partner makes it worth the conference's while. (Not likely.) Or if some basketball only school puts on a run that makes their candidacy a no brainer. For instance, what if St. Louis went to a few final fours? (I don't think this is likely either.)

So IOW, I agree with your final assessment!

[MayorBeluga]

Notre Dame needed the ACC's bowl ties to ensure they would get invited to bowls. That will prevent them from moving anywhere.

It's not only the bowl tie-ins. It's football scheduling. With the growth of the super-mega-too large conferences such as the B1G Network (er, conference), there are more and more conference football games. Throw in the revenue from buy games, and there are fewer and fewer home and homes. ND was finding it more difficult to fill their schedule. The deal with the ACC guarantees them either 4 or 5 games annually.