OT World Cup Thread

[Mucrisco]

It's finally here. Any predictions out there? I say US gets out of the group. Germany to win it. After the US, I'll be rooting for Spain.

[warriorfan4life]

I have Argentina doing the unexpected and knocking off Brazil in the Finals. At some point I think the Messi/Aguero generation wins one, and it will come at the expense of Brazil. I am very bullish on the U.S., predicting the good guys to both win the group (think both Germany and Portugal are vulnerable to due to injuries/fatigue from club play) and then make a run to the Semis after beating Algeria in the round of 16 and Bosnia in the quarters. I think it will be a poor showing for the European contingent in South America.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Pumped!! I'll say Germany wins it (I'm biased though). If not them then Argentina. I think Belgium and Japan make a little noise as well. I'll say USA will beat Ghana but not get out of its group.
A) Brazil, Croatia
B) Spain, Netherlands
C) Japan, Greece
D) Italy, Costa Rica
E) France, Honduras
F) Argentina, BH
G) ZEE GERMANS, Portugal
H) Belgium, Algeria

[unclejohn]

Ghana or Nigeria to surprise.

But hey, what really pisses me off is why doesn't the US have a team nickname? I mean everybody else seems to. Some are pretty lame, but others are incredibly cool, like Belgium's Red Devils, Tunisia's Carthage Lions, or South Africa's Bfanna Bfanna. OK, Eagles are spoken for. Nigeria has the Super Eagles, and somebody else has just generic Eagles. Flags are popular, with Ghana's Black Stars, Mexico's Tri Colores, and a few others I am forgetting. So if we can't come up with an animal (how about some indigenous lizard or something?) why not just the Stars and Stripes? England does OK with the Three Lions from their uniform crest, even if they always underperform, and Australia has two of them! The men are the Socceroos (which I kind of like) and the women are the Matildas (which I really liked when they posed for that nude calendar.)

Why can't we come up with something? Hell, even the Arrogant Imperialists who Everybody Hates would give us an identity.

[Gato78]

I was in Jamaica about 12 years ago when their team was doing well. They were the Reggae Boyz. That was a cool name and the Jamaicans were totally pumped.

[unclejohn]

Yeah, boys are popular. Reggae Boyz, Socca Boys (Trinidad) Tico Boys (Costa Rica) and I understand Bfanna just means boys. They seem particularly popular in North America. So how about the Not-There-Yet-But-Improving Boys? Or we could name them after Congress and call them the Dysfunctional Boys. Or after the NSA and call them the All Knowing Boys. Hey, this is a big country full of clever and creative people. I am sure someone can come up with something good.

[Nukem2]

Yankee Boyz

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Ive always heard their nickname as the Yankees.

[warriorfan4life]

So who made the most money from that first match: Neymar, the Japanese ref, or the Croatian goalie Pletikosa? Croatia gave quite the effort playing 13 on 10 there.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Yeah, boys are popular. Reggae Boyz, Socca Boys (Trinidad) Tico Boys (Costa Rica) and I understand Bfanna just means boys. They seem particularly popular in North America. So how about the Not-There-Yet-But-Improving Boys? Or we could name them after Congress and call them the Dysfunctional Boys. Or after the NSA and call them the All Knowing Boys. Hey, this is a big country full of clever and creative people. I am sure someone can come up with something good.

Yeah Bafana in literal translation is go boys... Having a wife from South Africa mean I pick up some Zulu here and there... Surprisingly though Soccer isn't as big in South Africa as I thought it would be, Rugby FAR exceeds in popularity, that said their soccer team isn't all that great so there is that.

[unclejohn]

I am surprised. I thought soccer was big among the black community, and rugby was considered mostly a white sport. I did see the movie, and understand how Mandela tried to make Rugby the sport for everyone, and it is now not a disgrace for a black person to wear a Springbok jersey, but I thought soccer was more popular for much the same reason it has caught on around the world - it is easy and cheap to play. Maybe they just like blowing those damn horns.

Hey, how about the Liberty Boys! An outline of the statue, or just the top part, or just the torch, on the uniforms. Now that would be cool!

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Haha those horns are ridiculous... And they did put on a good show for the 2010 World Cup, the stadiums are beautiful as I have seen many first hand. That said there was a rise in interest leading up to the World Cup again because they were hosting it, however much of what you said is correct that historically it was blacks for soccer and whites for Rugby, but it's shifted over time to something for all. Now I'd hardly say Soccer isn't popular, but Rugby is very big over there, I'm sure the fact that they are one of the worlds best teams helps. I've found the South African culture really fascinating, however thats another story for another day.

[Mucrisco]

So who made the most money from that first match: Neymar, the Japanese ref, or the Croatian goalie Pletikosa? Croatia gave quite the effort playing 13 on 10 there.

I am DVR delay, but that was one of the worst flops I have seen. That's part of what gives soccer a bad name.

[warriorfan4life]

I am DVR delay, but that was one of the worst flops I have seen. That's part of what gives soccer a bad name.

I've become a close follower of the EPL, so I am used to the diving. I will say that most English refs laugh off a flop like that and sometimes give out a yellow card for simulation.

[Mucrisco]

Yeah. Should be a yellow.

[WarriorNich]

I'll go Brazil over Spain. Argentina and Germany make semis. USA only musters 1 point in group play.

[ge1974]

Big East refs...no doubt.

[DCwarrior]

I am DVR delay, but that was one of the worst flops I have seen. That's part of what gives soccer a bad name.

The only way to eliminate flopping is to review the tapes after the games and start suspending the players (minimum of one game and increasing thereafter based on the player's theatrical history). That BS play literally cost Croatia the game (and the horrible goaltender)

[pbiflyer]

I'll go Brazil over Spain. Argentina and Germany make semis. USA only musters 1 point in group play.

Hope you're right. That is what I have in my company's pool. Winner gets 250 euros.

[TheSultan]

That Dutch goal was certainly something.

[ValiantSailor]

That Dutch goal was certainly something.

Which one? I sure wasn't expecting a blowout!

VS

[The Reptile]

That was the soccer equivalent of San Antonio blowing out Miami.

[Mucrisco]

Wow, when was the last time Spain was dominated like that?

[pbiflyer]

Wow, when was the last time Spain was dominated like that?

The Spanish Armada?

[Mucrisco]

The Spanish Armada?

That made me chuckle.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

The analysts were dead on with this Chile team. They're fun to watch as they push forward and take a ton of chances. They also dont have any "traditional" full backs which helps them on the offensive end but not on defense (proving there's still value for the big uncoordinated center backs ;)). Austraila isnt very good, but supposedly Chile can beat anyone or lose to anyone.

[warriorfan4life]

If Arturo Vidal is healthy and can be his usual menace, I think Chile wins group B. I do not trust the Dutch 3 man back line, and well Spain is major trouble with their goal differential. Now, David Silva could go crazy against Chile, but that Spanish team flat out gave up after the third Dutch goal and could be overwhelmed by Chile's pressing style.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

If Arturo Vidal is healthy and can be his usual menace, I think Chile wins group B. I do not trust the Dutch 3 man back line, and well Spain is major trouble with their goal differential. Now, David Silva could go crazy against Chile, but that Spanish team flat out gave up after the third Dutch goal and could be overwhelmed by Chile's pressing style.

While Chile can certainly play with anyone, I was really disappointed with their back line. I think Spain will beat them bc of this weakness.

[mufan2003]

Late with my prediction but here we go:

Teams from Europe have a hard time winning it all when a European nation is not hosting the tournament (if I remember correctly, never has happened). Tempted to take Germany over Brazil in the semifinals....but will stick with the home side Brazil. Argentina over Uruguay in the other semis. Brazil over Argentina in the Finals. USA advances out of round play finishing 2nd in the group behind Germany. USA loses to Argentina in the Quarterfinals, making it the farthest the USA has advanced since 2002.

[TheSultan]

Late with my prediction but here we go:

Teams from Europe have a hard time winning it all when a European nation is not hosting the tournament (if I remember correctly, never has happened).


Only once...Spain in South Africa.

[mufan2003]

Only once...Spain in South Africa.


Of course....the last World Cup, should have remembered that.

[TheSultan]

There have been seven World Cups in the Americas...South American teams have won all of them. (With European teams losing in the final games in the last five.)

There have been ten in Europe...European teams have won nine, with Brazil winning in Sweden the only exception. (Only one other South African team has even gotten to the final game when played in Europe - Argentina lost to West Germany in Italy in 1990.)

Brazil won in Asia. Spain won in Africa.

[warriorfan4life]

The Ticos proved to be quite formidable, and I would enjoy if Uruguay rebounds and both England and Italy get knocked out in the group stage.

[mufansince72]

I'm too old to enjoy soccer of any kind :)

[Mucrisco]

Why is ESPN twisting Jurgen's words? He states that it's not realistic for the US to win the World Cup. There is nothing false about that. He also states that if they get out of the group, then anything can happen. So, they are taking it one step at a time and concentrating on Ghana. Why is everyone making him out to be anti-American? When I coach my team and we are clearly underdogs, I tell them,"We are not expected to win, but all the pressure is on them, not us. Anything can happen." That is what Klins is telling them. Once again, the media is creating this story to create controversy and more of an audience. Fake outrage...

[TheSultan]

Yep. On the news this morning they said "he's being criticized for not being optimistic." What? Is he supposed to blow smoke up everyone's butt?

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Why is ESPN twisting Jurgen's words? He states that it's not realistic for the US to win the World Cup. There is nothing false about that. He also states that if they get out of the group, then anything can happen. So, they are taking it one step at a time and concentrating on Ghana. Why is everyone making him out to be anti-American? When I coach my team and we are clearly underdogs, I tell them,"We are not expected to win, but all the pressure is on them, not us. Anything can happen." That is what Klins is telling them. Once again, the media is creating this story to create controversy and more of an audience. Fake outrage...

So which is it? Either "it's not realistic for the US to win the whole thing" or "anything can happen when they advance past the group stage?" There's a complete disconnect between the two statements - he's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

As far as what you are telling your kids - I have no problem with that, completely fine. However, what you are telling your kids "we are underdogs and not expected to win, all the pressure is on them, etc" is far different than "it's unrealistic to think we can win." If my coach were to tell me "it was unrealistic for us to win," I would turn to my teammates and say why are we even here?

[Mucrisco]

I don't see it as an either/or. He is saying IF they get out of the group, then they have beaten the top teams, so they can beat anybody. Look at the Vegas odds. The US is a longshot to win it. So, why set your sights on winning the whole thing? Instead, take a look at the game in front of you. If you listen to his comments, that is what he says. They do not feel they are the underdogs to Ghana. They will take it to them. Hopefully they get the results and they will take it from there.

So, if his team is pissed off at him for saying they won't win the World Cup, why are they even looking that far ahead? I wouldn't want them to do that. That's how many of the favorites bow out early. They put pressure on themselves to win the whole thing and they lose sight of the game in front of you.

[MUfan12]

Germany 4-0 Portugal. Huge result for the US. Pepe sent off, Coentrao and Almeida injured, Ronaldo forced to play the full 90. If they can beat Ghana, advancing from this group is a real possibility.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

IF they beat Ghana...

[ValiantSailor]

If the play I saw today is indicative, Germany and Portugal will advance, without much competition. They both play a level above the US and Ghana.

VS

[warriorfan4life]

If the play I saw today is indicative, Germany and Portugal will advance, without much competition. They both play a level above the US and Ghana.

VS

I think Portugal horribly struggles with the pace of both the U.S. and Ghana, and may leave Brazil with zero points. The one knock on the current U.S. line-up is the lack of playmaking in the midfield, but against Portugal I think the U.S. can counter them to death and get many chances to convert that way. I do feel awful for Jozy though, as a horrible club year at a messed up club and now likely being done for the World Cup after 20 minutes. I expect Johannsson to be much better on Sunday, but still would prefer a healthy Jozy that had just rediscovered his mojo again.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

USA plays Portugal in Manaus. The pitch is basically a sandbox with some grass painted on. It will play slow, and with no Pepe, no Coentrao, and maybe no Almeida, Portugal is beatable. They are probably the most overrated team in the world. Ronaldo is great, but the rest of them are average. A draw would likely see us through. I like our odds, especially since I felt more confident of beating Portugal than I did Ghana before the Cup started.

[DCwarrior]

We can still get through to the next round even if we lose our next two games as long as Germany pounds Ghana, Ghana beats Portugal and the US loses both of their games by close margins.

Bottom line is we need to take care of business and at least get a draw against Portugal, which I think is very doable as Portugal is overrated. Losing Jozy hurts as he was very good at keeping possession and creating scoring chances.

[Mucrisco]

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8KwMIcmviMFMWJjTnpDUldnYzA/preview?pli=1

BBC analysis of the US game.

[Mucrisco]

I love watching these reactions on youtube:

Who are the aholes that refuse to stand?

http://youtu.be/D6qLg23Bx1A


http://youtu.be/2iLnvXB43uI

Marquette guy in this one.

http://youtu.be/sS172L6Cmv8

[unclejohn]

I can't see Portugal advancing. Too much goal differential for them to pick up. The US will play cautiously Sunday, playing not to lose. If they draw, that is easily good enough. Germany should beat or at least draw Ghana. That leads to a final game between the US and Germany, where neither has any incentive to take risks. Ninety minutes of playing keep away.

[pbiflyer]

I can't see Portugal advancing. Too much goal differential for them to pick up. The US will play cautiously Sunday, playing not to lose. If they draw, that is easily good enough. Germany should beat or at least draw Ghana. That leads to a final game between the US and Germany, where neither has any incentive to take risks. Ninety minutes of playing keep away.

This.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I hope we don't play not to lose. If we do we will probably lose. Portugal is without two starting defenders. We need to take it to them, go for a smash-and-grab again. Get an early goal and watch them cave. Let Jermaine Jones physical the hell out of Ronaldo and grind him into the Manaus sand. Get them playing like a one-man team and they will be beat. Thankfully, every time Nani botches another effort it becomes that much easier to get them to the one-dimensional mentality that got them here. I think we can beat them and if we play aggressive, frankly, we should. They may have the edge in individual talent, but I have no doubt we are a better team.

[warriorfan4life]

Not at all surprised with Chile beating Spain and subsequently eliminating them from the World Cup. I did not think much of the chances for the European powers, particularly in a South American World Cup that featured a host of strong South American squads (plus a surging U.S. squad and other solid teams like Ivory Coast and Algeria). I picked Chile to win the group, but did take Spain second over the Dutch.

Along these lines, I would not be surprised if a solid, strongly disciplined Costa Rica side gets a result against Italy and even wins outright. A result there could set up three CONCACAF sides making it to the knockout round.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Costa Rica could also get something off England. If the Ticos get a lead, they are exceptional at grinding a result, and at this point two draws would guarantee they go through. The real question is of Uruguay is as bad as they looked.

[MayorBeluga]

Well on the plus side, England won't have another disappointing penalty kick loss in the knock out rounds.

[TheSultan]

If Italy blows out Costa Rica and then turns around and beats Uruguay (neither are out of the question,) England still has life.

BTW how about these stats:

Western Hemisphere (North, Central, South America): 10 wins, 2 draws, 3 losses

Everyone else: 9 wins, 4 draws, 16 losses

[ValiantSailor]

"Group of Death" lives up to its name. Unbelievable finish!

VS

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Bradley blew it at the end there... So close... I came into the day saying that I'd be happy with a draw, but now post game I don't feel good about it at all, stuff like that always comes back to haunt you.

Let's hope that Ghana and Portugal tie or that Portugal can beat Ghana by 1...

[MUfan12]

Jurgen should bench Bradley. He's been terrible, and gave the ball away in a completely unacceptable fashion to lead to the equalizer. A horrible result, and one that will probably see them go out.

[TheSultan]

Jurgen should bench Bradley. He's been terrible, and gave the ball away in a completely unacceptable fashion to lead to the equalizer. A horrible result, and one that will probably see them go out.


Why will they go out?

If US wins or draws they advance.
If Ghana / Portugal tie, US advances.
If US loses by 1, Ghana would have to win by 2 to advance.
If US loses by 1, Portugal would have to win by 4 to advance.

Right now, oddsmakers give Germany a 1/100 shot at advancing...US 1/5...Ghana 6/1...Portugal 8/1. That's about right.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Jurgen should bench Bradley. He's been terrible, and gave the ball away in a completely unacceptable fashion to lead to the equalizer. A horrible result, and one that will probably see them go out.

Bradley's giveaway was unacceptable for a player of his caliber. I realize he was gassed, but if you can't get possession of it, just blast it into the corner at that point - he knows that and we never shouldve been in that position. Also the defenders really shouldve done a better job of not allowing the one guy in the box to get behind them.

Regarding benching him, he hasnt been very good for two games now - that i will agree with but he's arguably our best player so that's just ridiculous to bench him.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I would assume those are odds of not advancing... Germany has way better than a 1/100 odd of advancing at this point. The US is definitely in a better spot than Portugal and Ghana... That said Germany will be the toughest team they will play thus far. It's a bit ironic that they played much better today than they did in their first game given the results... The US should have had another goal or two today. Thursday could be real interesting.

[unclejohn]

I expect Germany and the US to kick the ball around for ninety minutes without trying to do much. The US can afford a loss by one goal as long as Ghana does not win by two. The only problem I see is that in order for Portugal to advance, they have to score in bunches, which means they have to throw caution to the winds. That might lead to a free-wheeling affair in which Ghana wins by more than one.

On the one hand, settling for a tie when they had the game won is a huge letdown. On the other, I think Klinsman will use it to keep them sharp going into their last game. They got past Ghana despite a bunch of mistakes. They should have won today if not for two major mistakes. They can keep improving, which might be a good mindset to be in going into the knockout stage.

[unclejohn]

Curiously, of the eight groups, only two have all four teams still in the running. Up until yesterday, the pattern had been that one team moved on and one was eliminated every day. Of course, some of those undecided teams are looking pretty comfortable, like Brazil and Nigeria. Others are hanging on by their fingernails.

[MUfan12]

Regarding benching him, he hasnt been very good for two games now - that i will agree with but he's arguably our best player so that's just ridiculous to bench him.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. This tournament is finite. You're only as good as your last game. And he's been a liability.

As far as going out, I'm more worried about the margin the US will lose by. This will be difficult to recover from.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Ok let's hear your solution? So you bench him...Who are you putting in his spot?

It's the hardest position on the field and if you've watched more than two games you know he is by far our best option regardless of two poor games.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

He was much better today, yes the play at the end was bad, but overall today was much better.

[warriorfan4life]

Bradley was undeniably bad against Ghana, but I thought he had a lot of good moments today. He was consistently good on the attack, and did win his share of balls in the midfield. He also had a few ugly turnovers, with the last one being the most costly. As big of a Mix Diskerud fan as I am, you cannot replace Bradley for him. All the other possible options significantly lack Bradley's quality (and I do not even want to here fat Landon as a second guess option). Knowing Bradley's pride and conditioning, I expect a strong performance Thursday against a vulnerable German midfield and back line.

[TheSultan]

For as bad as Bradley has been, Jermaine Jones looks about as good as I remember. That goal he scored today was incredible, and he has no trouble being physical.

[MUfan12]

Ok let's hear your solution? So you bench him...Who are you putting in his spot?

It's the hardest position on the field and if you've watched more than two games you know he is by far our best option regardless of two poor games.

Thanks for the condescension. I'm willing to bet I watch more football than most here.

Getting back to Bradley, I think it's a question that needs to be asked. The margin at this tournament is so small that you can't just give him a pass on past performance. One mistake can mean the end of the tournament.

Who would I play? The play of Jones and Beckerman gives you a little more flexibility, as neither will shirk on their defensive responsibilities. I'd give Mix a look. Or play another forward with Dempsey, depending on what JK wants from the Germany game.

It's not an easy call, but at the very least worthy of discussion.

[unclejohn]

I am not as familiar with the personnel as some of you, but aside from that glaring, stupid turnover at the end, Bradley played pretty well. He more than held his own. You have to put the players on the field who give you the best chance to win. I would be surprised if that is someone other than Bradley.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Thanks for the condescension. I'm willing to bet I watch more football than most here.

Getting back to Bradley, I think it's a question that needs to be asked. The margin at this tournament is so small that you can't just give him a pass on past performance. One mistake can mean the end of the tournament.

Who would I play? The play of Jones and Beckerman gives you a little more flexibility, as neither will shirk on their defensive responsibilities. I'd give Mix a look. Or play another forward with Dempsey, depending on what JK wants from the Germany game.

It's not an easy call, but at the very least worthy of discussion.

My apologies if that came off as condescending-wasn't my intent. I've heard many people say bench Bradley--but those people have only watched him play these first two games and I was simply implying that if you've watched more than the WC you know how good Bradley is and how important he is to our team.

While I get your point about a finite tournament and win now, I am still strongly of the mindset that benching Bradley would be ridiculous. Finite or not, just think about other sports - you don't bench your best player (imo he's our best but it's prob between him, demp and Howard) just bc he's had two rough games. We need him and klinsman knows this which is why the thought of benching him hasn't even crossed his mind.

[WarriorNich]

I would assume those are odds of not advancing... Germany has way better than a 1/100 odd of advancing at this point.

Obviously you are not a gambling man. 1/100 odds do not mean Germany has a 1-in-100 chance to advance. It means quite the opposite. To win $1 on Germany advancing at this point a bettor needs to wager $100. Portugal at 8-1 odds means a $100 bet would win $800 if they advance. I hope this gambling tutorial has been enlightening.:cool:

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Obviously you are not a gambling man. 1/100 odds do not mean Germany has a 1-in-100 chance to advance. It means quite the opposite. To win $1 on Germany advancing at this point a bettor needs to wager $100. Portugal at 8-1 odds means a $100 bet would win $800 if they advance. I hope this gambling tutorial has been enlightening.:cool:

Haha no I'm not, that was definitely educating... I appreciate it.

[unclejohn]

"I BELIEVE THAT WE WILL LOSE, BUT STILL ADVANCE DUE TO GOAL DIFFERENTIAL!"

Kind of catchy, don't you think?

[TheSultan]

"I BELIEVE THAT WE WILL LOSE, BUT STILL ADVANCE DUE TO GOAL DIFFERENTIAL!"

Kind of catchy, don't you think?


LOL...whatever works!!!

I think they can beat Belgium. (Keep in mind I know nothing about them!!)

[warriorfan4life]

Job well done. Deserved the three points against Portugal, a bit fortunate to get all three against Ghana, and a respectable performance all things considered today against Germany. I think the U.S. would have been more dangerous today if their legs were not shot from quick turnaround from the jungle, and expect the attack to be more potent against the Belgians.

Edit: To answer Sultan's point, Belgium is super talented but have not meshed well together. They whooped us in a friendly last year, but I think the U.S. has been every bit their equal in Brazil.

[BLT]

Nate Silver chimes in on the USA's chances in the knockout round: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-u-s-s-odds-of-beating-belgium-and-every-other-world-cup-opponent/

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Belgium on paper would be one of the favorites in this tournament, and will almost certainly be a top team in 2018. Tons of talent, but also very young and inexperienced. None of them have ever played in a World Cup knockout before, and prior to 2 weeks ago they had zero World Cup experience. You can't underestimate the raw talent of guys like Hazard, Origi, Mertens, De Bruyne, and Courtois, but this will be a new environment for them.

They are certainly beatable, but to do it I think we have to go at them like we did against Portugal. If we play on the back foot like we did against Germany, the speed and technique of Belgium will destroy us. We need to push them back and show we can attack. I would really like to see Mix Diskerud get into this game. He's our best player when it comes to making one or two touches and getting the ball to the next guy. I've been underwhelmed with both Zusi and Bedoya thus far and think Mix would be a welcome change.

Two of their top defenders (Kompany and Vermaelen) are struggling with injuries, so if Jozy can come back, now would certainly be the time. If not, I think they should keep with the false 9 sort of mentality that has seen Jones, Bradley, and Dempsey all alternating up front.

[TheSultan]

Of the 10 teams from the western hemisphere, 8 made it to the knock out round. Ecuador and Honduras were the only exceptions.

OTOH, Asian teams went 0-3-9 in group play.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Of the 10 teams from the western hemisphere, 8 made it to the knock out round. Ecuador and Honduras were the only exceptions.

OTOH, Asian teams went 0-3-9 in group play.

And FIFA was talking about taking the CONCACAF half-spot (we currently get 3 auto-bids and one play-in with Oceania) and giving it to Asia. Please. This has been a great showing for CONCACAF and CONMEBOL. Honestly, I think it's possible that you could see 6/8 teams in the quarterfinals from the Americas. Costa Rica will probably be favored against Greece and both USA and Mexico could beat their European opposition, while 2 South American teams are guaranteed (from Brazil/Chile and Colombia/Uruguay) while Argentina looks like a strong bet to join them.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Okay...long post alert...

We need to make some alterations to compete with Belgium. Two of the biggest problems this team has had are set piece delivery and the curious case of Michael Bradley. I hoped to see Davis take set pieces in the last match, but Klinsmann seems set with Zusi when he's in there and Bedoya when he isn't. Zusi's delivery has been very poor since the perfectly placed cross to Brooks for the Ghana winner. At this point, I'd rather see Dempsey, Bradley, or someone else (Mix?) take a crack.

The other problem seems to largely be created because Bradley has had to run so damn much (more than any other player this World Cup) due to the Altidore injury. Bradley's regular defensive duties have been compounded with a need to play the underneath role usually frequented by Dempsey. The Portugal game really stood out for me. Bradley was a beast in the first half, winning balls, attacking, and had the game ended there you could have argued he was our best player. In the second half, he got winded and simply couldn't connect up, all punctuated by the awful giveaway that led to Ronaldo's delivery for the winner.

My real issue with us though is how similar our attackers are. Whether it's Beasley and Johnson making long runs from the back, Bradley or Jones making surging box-to-box runs through the midfield, or Zusi and Bedoya charging up the wings, it seems everyone needs the ball at their feet to be most effective. There's only one ball, and you can't have 7 players (including Dempsey, best on the team with the ball at his feet) that all need the ball on their feet to be effective. Which is why I feel it's the time for Mix Diskerud.

If I'm Klinsmann, I'd consider something like this:


Dempsey

Diskerud ----- Johnson

Jones ----- Beckerman ----- Bradley

Beasley ----- Besler ----- Cameron ----- Yedlin

Howard

It's not that different from what we've been playing. Jones and Beasley have formed an able pair on the left, covering each other defensively and getting the ball up the pitch. Having Yedlin and Johnson together would keep one RB back at all times and provide a more defensive (but also faster) look than Zusi in there. That also allows Bradley to be a defensive safety valve both for the right side and Hazard as well as Beckerman dealing with De Bruyne in the middle. The real differences are Johnson taking Zusi's role primarily, Jones returning to the role he played against Ghana, but adding a quick-touch facilitator in Diskerud. One of the problems we've had this competition is interlinking in the final third. Diskerud is the only player on our team who generally already knows what he will do with the ball before he gets it. One or two touches and it's on to the next player. He won't try to get fancy, dribble around, and give the defense time to take the ball.

The only player on the roster that can hold up the ball allowing the midfielders to run on to him is Altidore. Without him in there, a change is needed. Diskerud will allow the USA to hold possession by transitioning quickly from right to left and back to front. When we've tried to hold the ball without Altidore, we've seen too many giveaways in the final third. Diskerud's mindset reduces the odds of that happening. He's not the defensive presence that Zusi or Bedoya are, but with Jones and Bradley flanking Beckerman and Johnson covering the young Yedlin there's enough presence at the back. Frankly, no amount of defense will ever really be "enough" for a team with the wealth of attacking options Belgium has, and the best way to reduce pressure is to actually apply some of our own in the final third. If Jozy isn't ready for 90 minutes, Diskerud is the only player on the roster that addresses that.

While this does take out our free kick takers, I'm willing to risk that. For direct kicks, Dempsey will take them anyway, and for crosses, we can't do much worse than we have (excepting Zusi's corner to Brooks).

Belgium has barely scraped by this World Cup despite winning all three. They came from behind against Algeria and all of their winners have been scored after the 75th minute. Using Diskerud will help the USA maintain possession (which worked well for Russia and South Korea for much of the game) and keep options like Zusi and Bedoya available off the bench to inject some late pace when in the past Belgium has been able to surge past teams with three of four goals coming from substitutes.

Relieve defensive pressure by maintaining meaningful possession, partner Dempsey with other attack-minded players that excel with minimal touches, and have energy off the bench to counteract Belgium's late strength and I fully believe the USA can win. But if we just do what wasn't quite enough to get desired results against Portugal and Germany, I fear the USA will be bowing out in the Round of 16 in back-to-back World Cups.

[Phantom Warrior]

I have been an advocate for soccer for more than two decades, ever since my son joined the Bavarians at age nine. Both my son and my daughter played premier level club soccer and school soccer. My daughter played two years of D-3 college soccer before transferring to UW, and my son was recruited by several schools and was told he could play mid-major D-1 (though he gave up soccer after high school).

I coached soccer for 10 years at the school where I taught, and each year I came to appreciate the game more and more as I began to understand some of the game's nuances.

However, after watching about a half dozen World Cup games, my attitude about the sport - at least as it is played at the highest level - is changing. I will still watch the game Tuesday against Belgium, of course, but I am growing incredibly weary of watching players end up on the ground - often writhing in apparent agony - at least once every two or three minutes, and sometimes three or four times in a single minute.

If I had the patience, I would chart how many times a player ends up on the ground following contact with an opponent. My guess is the count would be somewhere around 50, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were much higher. Yes, the players are incredibly skilled, and they are extremely athletic. But I find the style of play almost unbearable to watch.

I enjoyed watching the U-17 Bavarians play the U-17 Brookfield Soccer Club team in 2000 much more than I've enjoyed watching the best soccer players in the world knock each other to the turf.

[pbiflyer]

Phantom, this is one of the reasons that the Us will not ever be good at soccer. All of our athletes that can perform at that level chose instead to go into professional wrestling.

[unclejohn]

Phantom, this is one of the reasons that the Us will not ever be good at soccer. All of our athletes that can perform at that level chose instead to go into professional wrestling.

Not true. As Suarez has proven, such an athlete could also join the Mike Tyson school of boxing.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I view the dives and making the most of challenges in soccer the same way I view prima donna wide receivers calling for a flag every time they don't catch a pass (as though they couldn't possibly ever just miss a ball, it HAD to be contact), NBA players that flop miserably (cough, Wade/James, cough), and frankly pretty much every other form of cheating from offensive lineman holds to pine tar on a bat or ball to you name it.

As soon as we start keeping score, someone starts looking for a way to cheat. Arjen Robben yesterday was infuriating and his blatant dive put Mexico out of the tournament, but there is an art to that and it's part of the game, just like cheating is in any other sports. Honestly, it'd be nice if the USA had a world class diver like Robben or Ronaldo. It might improve our odds of winning the thing in my lifetime.

[mutpm]

I have been an advocate for soccer for more than two decades, ever since my son joined the Bavarians at age nine. Both my son and my daughter played premier level club soccer and school soccer. My daughter played two years of D-3 college soccer before transferring to UW, and my son was recruited by several schools and was told he could play mid-major D-1 (though he gave up soccer after high school).

I coached soccer for 10 years at the school where I taught, and each year I came to appreciate the game more and more as I began to understand some of the game's nuances.

However, after watching about a half dozen World Cup games, my attitude about the sport - at least as it is played at the highest level - is changing. I will still watch the game Tuesday against Belgium, of course, but I am growing incredibly weary of watching players end up on the ground - often writhing in apparent agony - at least once every two or three minutes, and sometimes three or four times in a single minute.

If I had the patience, I would chart how many times a player ends up on the ground following contact with an opponent. My guess is the count would be somewhere around 50, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were much higher. Yes, the players are incredibly skilled, and they are extremely athletic. But I find the style of play almost unbearable to watch.

I enjoyed watching the U-17 Bavarians play the U-17 Brookfield Soccer Club team in 2000 much more than I've enjoyed watching the best soccer players in the world knock each other to the turf.

I call BS. You're saying 50 times a player goes down in a 90 minute match? I need to start charting this, but in the games I've watched, the number of stoppages for an injury appears to be 6-8, maybe 10 at most. Maybe a couple more over the weekend with the matches going 120 minutes. Do you have an issue with NFL and college football players going down? Those games have at least a couple of stoppages every game for an injury and studies have shown there is only about 15 minutes of action in a 60 minute football game. The ball is in play for nearly the entire 90 minutes in soccer. There are no automatic rests or substitutions like there are in other sports. You play the entire game. That will lead to the increase in fatigue and injuries. Do soccer players fake or embellish an injury? Of course they do. Is that any different than a football player that falls down to stop play? This isn't an anti-football post, I'm just trying to point out that it happens in other sports.

[Phantom Warrior]

I'm not talking only about the "injuries" - real or faked. I'm talking about the number of times a player ends up on the ground and the flow of play is stopped - period. Count the number of fouls - regardless of where they occur on the field. Yes, I'll wager the number is close to 50 on average in a 90-minute game. Each one leads to a stoppage of play - some fairly short, some a good deal longer (especially if they involve a yellow card).

As far as other sports, I feel the same way about an NFL game that has 30+ penalties or an NCAA or NBA basketball game that has 50+ fouls. I don't enjoy watching any of those because of all the stoppages of play. Now, an NFL football game with 10-15 penalties, or an NCAA or NBA basketball game with 25-30 fouls - those I can usually enjoy.

[mutpm]

I'm not talking only about the "injuries" - real or faked. I'm talking about the number of times a player ends up on the ground and the flow of play is stopped - period. Count the number of fouls - regardless of where they occur on the field. Yes, I'll wager the number is close to 50 on average in a 90-minute game. Each one leads to a stoppage of play - some fairly short, some a good deal longer (especially if they involve a yellow card).

As far as other sports, I feel the same way about an NFL game that has 30+ penalties or an NCAA or NBA basketball game that has 50+ fouls. I don't enjoy watching any of those because of all the stoppages of play. Now, an NFL football game with 10-15 penalties, or an NCAA or NBA basketball game with 25-30 fouls - those I can usually enjoy.

I'll wager the number is way lower. Just using the US games, 22 total fouls in the Ghana match, 25 in the Portugal match, and 24 in the Germany match. That's 71 fouls in over 270 minutes. Not all of those fouls result in a delay. Compared to the other major sports, there are far fewer stoppages in soccer than basketball, football, hockey, or baseball.

[Mucrisco]

I think this has been one of the most entertaining World Cups ever.

Brew City, I like the lineup, but I'd keep Fabian in the back. It sounds like Belgium plays a high line and are susceptible to flank runs. Fabian should have a field day at that. I'd also like to see Mix in there. I'd put Johansson up top with Dempsey. Put Jones on the left wing, move Bradley back and on the right side, Beckerman centralized and put Mix in the 10 role. Jones can attack from the wing, cut back and let one of his thunderous right footed shots go.

--------------------------------Dempsey------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------Johansson-------------------------------

---------------------------------------Diskerud------------------------------------------

--------------------Jones-----------Beckerman--------------Bradley-----------------

-----Beas---------------Besler----------------Gonzalez-------------Johnson--------

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I honestly struggle to understand how people can watch American football and not get bored. 11 minutes of action over a 3-hour period? Wall Street Journal did a study (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406) and that's it. You spend 2 hours and 49 minutes watching replays, commercials, sideline shots, and Chris Berman at halftime. 11 minutes of action in 3 hours.

Anyway...my worry with that lineup Crisco is there's not much real width to it. One of Belgium's biggest weaknesses is that they are playing 4 central defenders at the back, so I love the idea of being able to get Beasley, Johnson, and Yedlin all raiding down the flanks. Johannsson was just so poor against Ghana, starting him in a game of this magnitude would terrify me.

Either way, I really think Mix is key. Can't wait to see tomorrow's lineup, and hope Jurgen gets him in there.

[Nukem2]

I honestly struggle to understand how people can watch American football and not get bored. 11 minutes of action over a 3-hour period? Wall Street Journal did a study (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406) and that's it. You spend 2 hours and 49 minutes watching replays, commercials, sideline shots, and Chris Berman at halftime. 11 minutes of action in 3.
OTOH, watching people run around for a couple hours achieving virtually nothing is rather like watching grass grow. :)

[ValiantSailor]

OTOH, watching people run around for a couple hours achieving virtually nothing is rather like watching grass grow. :)

Take away field goals - is there any more useless play in football - and you're left with about the same number of scores between a typical contest in football and soccer. You just have more points awarded in football. But there are many, many more scoring opportunities in a typical soccer contest.

VS

[Nukem2]

Take away field goals - is there any more useless play in football - and you're left with about the same number of scores between a typical contest in football and soccer. You just have more points awarded in football. But there are many, many more scoring opportunities in a typical soccer contest.

VSHockey is a lot more exciting than soccer, especially if one is sitting close to a net. Both are boring. NFL $$$ are much greater in the US.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

OTOH, watching people run around for a couple hours achieving virtually nothing is rather like watching grass grow. :)

Fallacies like that are why people like Ann Coulter are employed and the sport is so misunderstood in this country. No offense taken, but it's simply untrue. The thing with soccer, if you walk away you actually miss something. Watching NFL, you can walk away for 5 minutes and come back and literally nothing will have happened. A few replays, maybe a measurement, and a commercial break. That's why I can't watch it, because there's really so little to watch.

I agree that Hockey is fantastic. Love the sport. For me, soccer and basketball are 1 and 1a, then hockey, then pretty much everything else. Baseball and American football are really tough for me to actually invest myself in. Just so slow paced.

[Nukem2]

Fallacies like that are why people like Ann Coulter are employed and the sport is so misunderstood in this country. No offense taken, but it's simply untrue. The thing with soccer, if you walk away you actually miss something. Watching NFL, you can walk away for 5 minutes and come back and literally nothing will have happened. A few replays, maybe a measurement, and a commercial break. That's why I can't watch it, because there's really so little to watch.

I agree that Hockey is fantastic. Love the sport. For me, soccer and basketball are 1 and 1a, then hockey, then pretty much everything else. Baseball and American football are really tough for me to actually invest myself in. Just so slow paced.

To each his own. Let's talk basketball here.

[unclejohn]

Anne Coulter is an idiot who makes lots of money saying outrageous things. To suggest that a particular sport is contributing to the "moral decline" of the country is ridiculous. Even if one were to accept that, a much better claim could be made for football, which has been shown to cause lasting disabilities to the people who play it. The fact that soccer is gaining in popularity in part because of the increase in immigrants from the countries that play it is true, but most people would think that a good thing. She may have a point that fewer people whose great-grandparents were born in this country like the game, But that would exclude most of the population. How many people have eight great-grandparents who are native born? (Ironically, a large number of the people who do are African Americans. She's right. They tend to like basketball.)

It comes down to a matter of taste. The main reason soccer has not caught on in this country to the extent it has in the rest of the world is that other sports became established first. Add to that the fact that it has often been popular in other countries because it is cheap and easy to play. You do not need lots of equipment or uniforms, the rules are pretty simple, and kids can play it for endless hours. In this country, that role was filled by basketball, but even in that sport, it is just about impossible to play without a regulation hoop and ball.

Personally, the reason I am an every-four-year fan is that the game has not caught on in this country yet, and I did not grow up cheering for one team or another, and I am not interested enough to follow a league in a foreign country. But I find the tournament fascinating and the games enjoyable. Like any other sport, you can enjoy it more when you figure out what is going on. I skip over the posts here suggesting strategies and line-ups. Frankly, I do not know enough to understand them. But the games have been great and very exciting. It is really fun sitting in a big crowd of people and cheering together on every play. As for the lack of scoring, that again is a matter of taste. I am a big baseball fan. I love the game, its history, its rhythms, its strategy. It is fun to watch a game with lots of scoring, but the most exciting game I ever saw was the seventh game of the 1991 World Series, which ended 1-0 after ten innings.

[ValiantSailor]

To each his own. Let's talk basketball here.

Not in this thread!

And I love hockey, too!

VS

[Nukem2]

Not in this thread!

And I love hockey, too!

VS
Well,as suggested very early in this thread, this subject could move to IWBs OT board. :)

[CaribouJim]

Take away field goals - is there any more useless play in football - and you're left with about the same number of scores between a typical contest in football and soccer. You just have more points awarded in football. But there are many, many more scoring opportunities in a typical soccer contest.

VS

I watch incrementally less football each year, particularly college - barely watch college games anymore - games take way, way too long (hate the OT rules) and it is dominated by the blue bloods (right now the SEC) year-in-year out even way more than college b-ball.

Growing up in Western NY I was an AFL fan (Bills) - liked their more wide open style of game with passing a much larger part of the game than in the NFL. But overall there was more of a balance between running and passing. Now it has swung way, way too far to the passing game IMO. Running back back used to be the sexiest position and now it is almost a commodity. I miss those types of runs that you see from NFL Films - Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, O.J. (murderer), Walter, Barry Sanders, Dickerson to name a few. A good run is a thing of beauty.

That and it is way overexposed for my taste and they take themselves so damn seriously -saying "National Football League" instead of "NFL" for example. ESPN's programming is 24/7/365 - just non-stop.

All that and it is just an absolutely brutal game - the cliche' fits - they really are modern day gladiators, although well paid and participate voluntarily.

[Mucrisco]

The World Cup is getting huge ratings this year in the US. The US has bought more tickets than any other country besides Brazil. There is a greater amount of interest in the World Cup this year than even four years ago. Last Sunday, they had to shut down Brady St because people were overflowing out of the bars because they wanted to be there for the game. The older generation is still has that,"I hate soccer attitude," but for the younger crowd, most everyone I know is following it. Soccer has caught on in this country. I am fine with that fever only happening every four years, but that's part of what makes the World Cup special.

[Mucrisco]

758

My buddy sent me this. Great rant.

[Mucrisco]

From ESPN:

"The three U.S. group-stage games averaged more than 18 million viewers between English-language ESPN and Spanish-language Univision. The 2-2 Sunday evening draw with Portugal was the most-watched soccer game in American history with 24.7 million TV viewers.

The finale against Germany started at noon ET Thursday when much of the country was at work -- or at least supposed to be. A record audience of 1.05 million streamed that match on WatchESPN.

"Four years ago, it was impressive, and the fact that it seems even bigger now is a testament to our country," Howard said. "I don't know if we can get that type of electricity every weekend. I don't think that's where we're at as a country in terms of the soccer fanaticism."

By comparison, Boston's six-game World Series win over St. Louis in October averaged 14.9 million viewers on Fox, San Antonio's five-game victory over Miami in this month's NBA Finals averaged 15.5 million on ABC, and Los Angeles' five-game win over the New York Rangers in the NHL's Stanley Cup finals averaged 5 million on NBC and NBCSN.

But American football is still the king in the U.S. The opening weekend of the NFL playoffs last season averaged 34.7 million viewers for four games."

[TheSultan]

The World Cup is getting huge ratings this year in the US. The US has bought more tickets than any other country besides Brazil. There is a greater amount of interest in the World Cup this year than even four years ago. Last Sunday, they had to shut down Brady St because people were overflowing out of the bars because they wanted to be there for the game. The older generation is still has that,"I hate soccer attitude," but for the younger crowd, most everyone I know is following it. Soccer has caught on in this country. I am fine with that fever only happening every four years, but that's part of what makes the World Cup special.


It's not just the WC. A lot of 20 some year olds watch the EPL on Saturdays and Sundays as well.

And they don't see anything strange about watching soccer, football, baseball, basketball, etc. It's just one of the sports they like. It's not an either/or scenario.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Well,as suggested very early in this thread, this subject could move to IWBs OT board. :)

I'm sure I'm not the only one who logs directly to the MU boards here, and there's a big "OT" in the title ;)

[Goose85]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who logs directly to the MU boards here, and there's a big "OT" in the title ;)

I am not a soccer fan, but I am fine having this thread on the board. As evidenced by this thread, many MU fans are also soccer fans, so by putting it on the MU section people see it and comment on it too. In reality most of us really just look at the MU threads, so if putting it in with the MU hoops it gets more attention, ok. Now if there were 20 different threads about soccer I could see it being an issue.

The heading is OT - World Cup so as a non soccer fan I don't have to read it. I have just because I like to get the perspective of those that follow soccer as I don't. World Cup is a cool event. Easy enough for me to look at the thread title and decide to read it or not.

[Nukem2]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who logs directly to the MU boards here, and there's a big "OT" in the title ;)Just click on BCB home. How do you like the Heldt commit as we try to talk BB on a BB board. :D

[warriorfan4life]

If U.S. can win today, and that's a big if, then Argentina is certainly beatable. The Argentines seem to be missing that playmaking midfielder to set up their attackers (Di Maria is playing more advanced role for Argentines then he does for Real Madrid). The Swiss needed to capitalize on one of their earlier opportunities, and it would be key for the U.S. to nip an early goal or two.

Definitely first things first with a supremely talented Belgium team today (that hopefully continues their struggles in meshing as a team), but this is not an impossible road to conquer.

[Mucrisco]

"Klinsmann also confirmed that Alejandro Bedoya and Graham Zusi will be among the starters.The Americans try to reach the World Cup quarterfinals for the first time since 2002 when they face Belgium in the knockout round."

Looks like we won't have Mix among the starters. Probably Dempsey up top in a 4-5-1 again.

[Nukem2]

Just click on BCB home. How do you like the Heldt commit as we try to talk BB on a BB board. :D
Hmmm...the OT thread on the Bucks and Kidd was moved off this board today. Suspect a 6 page OT soccer thread (to date) could be moved as well. At least the Bucks thread was on BB. I get that a few of you enjoy soccer, but this is of very limited interest to many of us and this OT just clutters the top of the board.

[Mucrisco]

Wow, no Beckerman in the lineup. Cameron is in the midfield and they are playing a 4-3-3 with Bedoya and Zusi up top with Dempsey. It will probably more resemble a 4-5-1.

[warriorfan4life]

I've actually liked Cameron in a defensive midfield role, and not a bad idea to get fresh legs in the line-up. I would like to see Mix and Johannsson if a goal is needed in the second half. Cannot risk Jozy as a sub, and he either had to start or wait until the next game.

[Mucrisco]

Hmmm...the OT thread on the Bucks and Kidd was moved off this board today. Suspect a 6 page OT soccer thread (to date) could be moved as well. At least the Bucks thread was on BB. I get that a few of you enjoy soccer, but this is of very limited interest to many of us and this OT just clutters the top of the board.

Hey Nukem, I like you but knock it off. There have been 7 active threads on this board between yesterday and today. None of them directly involve Marquette basketball. One involves the Brewers. One involved the Bucks. One has no responses and is about an athlete's Bill of Rights. Yet you choose to whine and whine about a Soccer thread that is 11 pages long. How can you claim there is limited interest when it's the longest most active thread, currently on the board. How is it cluttering the board when there are no other topics to discuss that directly involve Marquette basketball? Cut it out.

[Nukem2]

Hey Nukem, I like you but knock it off. There have been 7 active threads on this board between yesterday and today. None of them directly involve Marquette basketball. One involves the Brewers. One involved the Bucks. One has no responses and is about an athlete's Bill of Rights. Yet you choose to whine and whine about a Soccer thread that is 11 pages long. How can you claim there is limited interest when it's the longest most active thread, currently on the board. How is it cluttering the board when there are no other topics to discuss that directly involve Marquette basketball? Cut it out.OK........but, no more soccer after this Cup is over. Please observe and use the OT board until the next soccer World Cup....;)

[Mucrisco]

Man, I'm exhausted. What a game. I don't think Cameron, Bedoya, and especially Zusi did us any favors out there. Yedlin proved he belonged. That was a great run and finish from Green. That's all you need from a guy like that. One touch can change the game. Brooks did well when he was out there. I would have liked to have seen Mix out there instead of Zusi. Wondo was invisible. Howard is a beast.

[unclejohn]

I BELIEVE THAT WE JUST LOST!

But it was a lot of fun. The best part for me was hanging out at the bar down the block. They had all the games on, and most of them on a theater sized big screen. It was fun cheering along with people I had never met. I can certainly see how the World Cup can be a national unifier. So I will watch the rest of the tournament, then it is back into my shell for another four years, or at least until qualifying starts again. But I did learn a lot and gained an appreciation for the game.

[mufan2003]

Soccer and basketball are the world's 2 most popular sports. Outside the USA, soccer is the clear-cut #1. The 2010 and 2014 World Cup, with the USA advancing to the Round of 16 and having every match covered by ESPN has helped the cause in America. I am glad Klinsmann is signed through the 2018 World Cup. He instills confidence in the players and it showed playing in the toughest group of the 8 groups. USA needs to develop and get a little lucky with 2 or 3 naturally gifted players that can create offensively. Also, USA was hit hard by injuries. Altidore only playing 20 minutes this World Cup was a tough break. Progress was made and good signs from young players such as Yedlin and Green.

[warriorfan4life]

I BELIEVE THAT WE JUST LOST!

But it was a lot of fun. The best part for me was hanging out at the bar down the block. They had all the games on, and most of them on a theater sized big screen. It was fun cheering along with people I had never met. I can certainly see how the World Cup can be a national unifier. So I will watch the rest of the tournament, then it is back into my shell for another four years, or at least until qualifying starts again. But I did learn a lot and gained an appreciation for the game.

As much fun and drama as the World Cup and international competitions provide, I think football in best enjoyed at the club level. Much more cohesiveness and fluid play, and just as much drama with the rivalries and the excitement when the have-nots beat the haves. If you have the time, it is well worth it to invest it watching the EPL/La Liga/top European leagues and Champions League action. The EPL is especially easy to follow with NBC Sports's phenomenal coverage of it, plus it has easily the best depth and competitiveness top to bottom of any European league.

[MUfan12]

So... how's everyone feeling this morning?

I can't stop thinking about Wondo's miss. This isn't healthy.

[MUMac]

That was a heck of a play and, yes, opportunity wasted. The US missed some golden opportunities and I felt bad for Howard, as he was phenomenal. Tough one to lose, as they could have stolen it. They need to improve their ball handling and attacking, though, as they were struggling most of the game. Down 2-Nil, they were dominating and fun to watch.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

So... how's everyone feeling this morning?

I can't stop thinking about Wondo's miss. This isn't healthy.

Yes Wondo's miss hurts, but realistically if Tim Howard wasn't playing out of this world the US would have been down at least 3-0 at that point, Belgium had several misses themselves so if you play the what if game I'm not so certain it would work out well...

[MUfan12]

Yes Wondo's miss hurts, but realistically if Tim Howard wasn't playing out of this world the US would have been down at least 3-0 at that point, Belgium had several misses themselves so if you play the what if game I'm not so certain it would work out well...

No doubt. But even with all of that, the ball falls to our alleged poacher's feet. 5 yards out, 30 seconds remaining. A tap in. ARRGH.

[mufan2003]

Almost looked like Wondo was not ready. Leaning back, skies it over the top. Needs to be on his toes, head down and drill it! Easier said than done.

[MUMac]

Almost looked like Wondo was not ready. Leaning back, skies it over the top. Needs to be on his toes, head down and drill it! Easier said than done.

I watched the replay several times. Looks like he tried to kick it out of the air, but the ball bounced first. That created the lift.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Yes Wondo's miss hurts, but realistically if Tim Howard wasn't playing out of this world the US would have been down at least 3-0 at that point, Belgium had several misses themselves so if you play the what if game I'm not so certain it would work out well...

Before the game, I talked to quite a few people and my main thrust was that the underdog teams against the big boys, Chile, Algeria, Nigeria, and Mexico, all had chances to beat their more fancied opponents. For long stretches, those small teams dominated the run of play and honestly probably deserved to win their games. But they failed to capitalize on the chances they got and ultimately the big boys got the breaks they needed and escaped. The point of my argument was that we couldn't squander chances like they did.

Belgium was clearly the better side, created better chances and had more possession all day, but we had Tim Howard playing the game of his life, and honestly, the entire back four was excellent. When you can defend like that for 90 minutes, it often comes down to one chance for the underdog to steal the match, and Wondo's miss was that chance. As soon as it happened I turned to my buddy and said "That was it. That's the one we're gonna regret." We still had a chance, we even could have drawn level after going 2-0 down, but as soon as Wondo missed, I went from "I believe" to "I'm not too confident".

There's reason for optimism. Green's 15 minutes, the way Brooks and Yedlin played in spells, and knowing that Bradley (who was better than his critics said), Altidore, Johannsson, and Besler will be back. There are young players coming up, some that are US citizens (Joe Gyau, Erik Palmer-Brown) and some that are yet to fully take the plunge (Gedion Zelalem, Darlington Nagbe, Shawn Parker) that have a ton of upside and could make the 2018 team even better than this one despite the likely departures of Howard, Dempsey, Beckerman, Jones, and Beasley.

Proud of the boys, and honestly, my disappointment didn't last long. Less than an hour after the match, I got the sobering news that my dad is in the hospital with renal failure. Took my mind off the loss pretty quickly. News since then has been better, I'm flying down to Florida tomorrow to see him. I know that better things are on the way.

[unclejohn]

Sorry to hear about your dad. That is what eventually took my mother. Dialysis is great, but it is really hard on elderly people. I will keep you in my prayers.

[mufan2003]

I watched the replay several times. Looks like he tried to kick it out of the air, but the ball bounced first. That created the lift.

I respectfully, strongly disagree. It was a high, hanging cross into the box, Wondolowski likely thought it would be cleared by the Belgium defense. He was caught off guard when the ball dropped to him. He was not ready. If he would have tried to kick it out of the air as you said, he would have swung and miss. He connected, but his body position was not ready and was too upright.

[warriorfan4life]

This best sums up today's festivities

http://screamer.deadspin.com/here-is-j-r-jim-ross-calling-the-brazil-germany-firs-1601968953

[kneelb4zerg]

This best sums up today's festivities

http://screamer.deadspin.com/here-is-j-r-jim-ross-calling-the-brazil-germany-firs-1601968953

Been watching this on an endless loop. The best.

[be69]

I personally like the Men in Blazers version of the game (http://www.espnfc.us/video/men-in-blazers/103/video/1940502/men-in-blazers-broken-hearts-in-brazil). Can anyone say Benny Hill?

Start at 2 minute mark if you want to skip the comments leading up to it.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Pumped!! I'll say Germany wins it (I'm biased though). If not them then Argentina. I think Belgium and Japan make a little noise as well. I'll say USA will beat Ghana but not get out of its group.
A) Brazil, Croatia
B) Spain, Netherlands
C) Japan, Greece
D) Italy, Costa Rica
E) France, Honduras
F) Argentina, BH
G) ZEE GERMANS, Portugal
H) Belgium, Algeria

If only I could pick my NCAA brackets this well! (yes I am patting myself on the back) :)

[warriorfan4life]

I did not believe in the Germans, primarily due to their back line and Sami Khedira looking like crap at the end of the club season in his recovery from knee surgery. Khedira played some of the best football of his life, and Germany lucked out that there were few center forwards capable enough to take advantage of their back line (like Balotelli did in the Euro 2012 semis). If Higuain remains on-side during the disallowed goal or finishes off Kroos's early blunder, I think Argentines could have won 1-0 or even 2-0.

I would have loved to have seen a Colombia-Germany game, but alas the Colombian defense betrayed them on set pieces and Brazil mangled their way to the German pounding. The Colombians could be really good in 2018, but I fear that they will be up against a good number of dangerous European sides that will be in great form as their core stars hit their prime. I expect for the Americans to be a bigger threat to make a run, but again they could be up against some European firepower (especially if we are stuck in a group with two European teams again and do not earn a seed).

[unclejohn]

If only I could pick my NCAA brackets this well! (yes I am patting myself on the back) :)

You'd get killed! Yeah, you picked Germany, but that is like picking Michigan State to win it all. A pretty reasonable guess in most years, but not one that is going to win a pool for you, because a lot of other people will pick them as well. You would have gotten clobbered in the earlier rounds. Honduras? Honduras????

Oh, all right. My dark horse picks were Ghana and Nigeria.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

You'd get killed! Yeah, you picked Germany, but that is like picking Michigan State to win it all. A pretty reasonable guess in most years, but not one that is going to win a pool for you, because a lot of other people will pick them as well. You would have gotten clobbered in the earlier rounds. Honduras? Honduras????

Oh, all right. My dark horse picks were Ghana and Nigeria.

Regarding your dark horse picks, that's what makes it so fun to pick these things!

I actually didnt get terribly clobbered in the earlier rounds and actually won my pool for what it's worth and I havent won an NCAA pool in 15 years so I'll take the victory lap whenever I can as it doesnt come around very often :) In my defense I did pick the finalists (Germany and Arg) and the winner (Germany) and had Costa Rica and Belgium making some noise. My biggest stinker of a pick was Japan who I thought would make some noise (and yes Honduras ended up stinking up the joint as well).

Definitely a fun tournament and cant wait for the next one where I will more than likely strike out on the majority of my picks. :) The tourney certainly got me through this dead sports period here in Chicago (aside from NBA free agency).

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I did not believe in the Germans, primarily due to their back line and Sami Khedira looking like crap at the end of the club season in his recovery from knee surgery. Khedira played some of the best football of his life, and Germany lucked out that there were few center forwards capable enough to take advantage of their back line (like Balotelli did in the Euro 2012 semis). If Higuain remains on-side during the disallowed goal or finishes off Kroos's early blunder, I think Argentines could have won 1-0 or even 2-0.

I would have loved to have seen a Colombia-Germany game, but alas the Colombian defense betrayed them on set pieces and Brazil mangled their way to the German pounding. The Colombians could be really good in 2018, but I fear that they will be up against a good number of dangerous European sides that will be in great form as their core stars hit their prime. I expect for the Americans to be a bigger threat to make a run, but again they could be up against some European firepower (especially if we are stuck in a group with two European teams again and do not earn a seed).
I couldn't agree more. Argies had their chances and couldn't make the most of them. Three very good scoring chances in regulation (including the one Messi slotted wide) but it all comes down to finishing, and Germany did just that. Great match, and the best team in Brazil won.

I also think Germany/Colombia would have been fantastic. Brazil kind of backed into that semifinal and I think Colombia would have made a much better opponent. Colombia was the best team of the group stage and quite possibly the tournament. That's the greatest match that didn't happen.

Germany though deserved the title. I don't agree with everyone trumping them as a dominant side, though. They were good, but definitely mortal. Their gaudy goal differential was almost all down to how easily Portugal and Brazil rolled over once they were down a couple goals. Ghana, USA, Algeria, & France all made Germany look pretty average. Great teams find ways to win, and Germany did, but any talk of them being an all-time great team (like Spain 2010) is very premature.

[TheSultan]

Hell, Brazil backed their way into their quarterfinal. If that strike from Chile was six inches lower, it's game over.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

A few questions for guys who follow this stuff a lot more than me:

-Lallas and other commentators consistently refer to the "changes to the program" that Germany had been making for the last ten years as the primary reason for their success. What specifically were these changes? Were these changes implemented by Klinsman and is it safe to say he is trying to make these changes here in the US?

-I realize they don't grow on trees, but what is the reason why the US can't find an attacker who scares the living crap out of the other team when he has the ball? Is there someone in the pipeline that could be this guy for the US in the next world cup?

Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

[MUfan12]

A few questions for guys who follow this stuff a lot more than me:

-Lallas and other commentators consistently refer to the "changes to the program" that Germany had been making for the last ten years as the primary reason for their success. What specifically were these changes? Were these changes implemented by Klinsman and is it safe to say he is trying to make these changes here in the US?

-I realize they don't grow on trees, but what is the reason why the US can't find an attacker who scares the living crap out of the other team when he has the ball? Is there someone in the pipeline that could be this guy for the US in the next world cup?


Jurgen went young with his team in 2006, giving many of the players on the current squad their first WC experience. Also, the Bundesliga adopted more of an academy model after their Euro 2000 debacle. All helped develop more players. Tactically, Klinsmann and Low had them playing far more of an attacking style when they took over.

The second question is one that has alluded them for years. Personally, I have it down to technical ability. That player will likely end up being a dual national that was trained overseas. Those who come up in the US just don't have it.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

After Euro 2000, Germany was in a pretty poor state, having finished bottom of their group. In a joint effort between the DFB (Germany's national team organization), the Bundesliga I & II (Germany's top two pro soccer leagues), and the club teams, Germany overhauled their youth development system. This involved investigating other nations and how they developed players, creating new training regimens, and enhancing their scouting to ensure the best young players got into the best systems. This has helped them develop players like Thomas Muller, Andre Schurrle, Mats Hummels, Mesut Ozil, Julian Draxler, Toni Kroos, and Mario Gotze, all emerging stars that are 25 years old or younger.

If you're interested in more, this article from the Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/may/23/germany-bust-boom-talent) does a good job of looking at how Germany now approaches their youth system. Rather than focusing on only recruiting the biggest and strongest at all positions, they now are putting more emphasis on speed and technical savvy in attack (seen with players like Kroos, Schurrle, and Ozil). They still favor big players in the defense, but are spending more time on making sure their defenders are also good technically rather than just physical bruisers.

The real beauty of watching Germany now is you can see the transition as it is happening. A player like Per Mertesacker is the epitome of the "old" Germany. Big, strong, but slow and not very good technically. Physically dominating, but not nearly as skilled as the new guard defenders like Benedikt Howedes or Mats Hummels, who are big (but not as big) but far more quick, agile, and capable on the ball. Miroslav Klose played more of a role than Mertesacker, but epitomizes old school Germany. Still fairly big and strong, he picks his spots well and is brilliant in front of the goal, but unlike Thomas Muller, isn't nearly as capable in distributing the ball or helping the play develop to others. Both have their uses, but whereas Klose is a butcher knife in front of goal, Muller is a Swiss Army Knife.

The first time USA tried to hire Klinsmann was in 2006 after Arena's disastrous World Cup. Klinsmann stepped down after his semifinal run with Germany, seen as a huge success, and was immediately the favorite for the USA job because he lived in California and had ties to USA soccer. However he wanted control over our youth system, which Sunil Gulati, head of the USSF (United States Soccer Federation) was unwilling to give. We went with Bob Bradley instead, and while he had a successful run, nothing really changed or improved. Bradley did a decent job, but Gulati always wanted Klinsmann, so when USA lost a 2-0 lead over Mexico in the 2011 Gold Cup Final to fall to a 4-2 defeat, Bradley was fired and Klinsmann was given the reins.

Enough history lesson, back to your question. In 2013, Klinsmann re-upped his contract through 2018 and gained the title of Technical Director. This is what he coveted in 2006 and I'm pretty sure was something that he knew was coming when he agreed to take the USA job in 2011. It will allow him to start overhauling our youth system, and is a big part of why he's been tied so closely to MLS. Klinsmann knows that the strength of the national team will be tied to the strength of our domestic league. To build that strength, it has to come from homegrown players. Over the past 10-15 years MLS has sent the occasional player on to greatness overseas. Dempsey, Bradley, Howard, and others have had varying levels of success. But it wasn't a mistake that Klinsmann's roster focus had so many German-Americans. Fabian Johnson came up in the youth system that has helped make Germany so successful -- he played on Germany's Under-21 team that won the Euro Championship in 2009 with Ozil, Neuer, Howedes, Hummels, and Boateng. Julian Green, Timmy Chandler, and John Brooks all also spent some time in that system and learned the game in the new German style.

MLS is starting to improve their academies and I am confident Klinsmann is going to try to continue that. DeAndre Yedlin has been one of the most successful homegrown players -- a player that came up in a team's youth system and made it all the way to the national team, but there are many others. Guys like Wil Trapp, Kellyn Acosta, Erik Palmer-Brown, Jose Villarreal, and Harry Shipp among others are fruits of our slowly improving youth system that look like potential stars of the future. Look for even more overhaul and Klinsmann gets more comfortable with his technical director role.

Okay...on to the attacker question. The simple answer is that there aren't many of them in the world. But I think for us specifically, it's because of the focus of our team. When you don't have a great team, you always tend to build through the defense. That's why over the past 25 years, the USA has been regarded as having a stout defense and solid goalkeepers. Because if you are strong there, you can usually at least hold out for a chance to steal a game or at worst get a draw. It isn't sexy, but it does the job. Further, the most gifted natural athletes in our country are more likely to play football or basketball. The sports are simply more popular, and kids see a more clear path to wealth through those sports. All the more reason the youth system is important. I especially look at basketball. Those players that are too small for the NBA? The 5'8" point guards, the 6'4" power forward with a rock solid frame, those guys are suited perfectly for the game of soccer. If the improved youth focus can get those kids to play the beautiful game from the youth level, you'll see that player develop.

That's why Klinsmann has started trying to find dual-nationals. Players like Julian Green, Aron Johansson, Mix Diskerud, and Gedion Zelalem (more on him shortly). They grew up as top-level athletes in their country as offensive players. As great as guys like Landon Donovan and Clint Dempsey may be, neither of them are guys that will ever be the best player on a Premier League team, or good enough to play for Madrid or Barcelona. If we can start developing youth players, maybe one can become that guy. Or if we can get players into those academies overseas at a young age -- we have a good start as American youths Josh Pynadath (11 years old) and Ben Lederman (13 years old) are currently playing professionally in the Real Madrid and FC Barcelona academies, respectively.

But until those guys develop, our best hope is to pluck a dual-national. Which is where Gedion Zelalem comes in. He's a highly regarded 17-year-old that has already played first-team minutes for Arsenal, one of the top teams in England. He also has German heritage, but his father has lived here since 2006 and recently applied for citizenship. Under US law, Gedion would gain citizenship as soon as his father does. He could be that breakout player in 2018, and along with Julian Green and a few other overseas youngsters (Rubio Rubin in Holland, Sebastian Lletget in England, Paul Arriola in Mexico, and former Marquette commit Andrija Novakovich in England) gives us some hope that maybe one of these kids will develop into the player we all thought Freddy Adu might be but never was.

[warriorfan4life]

Jurgen went young with his team in 2006, giving many of the players on the current squad their first WC experience. Also, the Bundesliga adopted more of an academy model after their Euro 2000 debacle. All helped develop more players. Tactically, Klinsmann and Low had them playing far more of an attacking style when they took over.

The second question is one that has alluded them for years. Personally, I have it down to technical ability. That player will likely end up being a dual national that was trained overseas. Those who come up in the US just don't have it.

I am hoping that Klinsmann's longest term accomplishment as U.S. coach is starting the fundamental change needed at the youth levels. Until the coaching and development here improves, we will have to be reliant on dual nationals that train overseas.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

My real hope is that after 2018, Sunil Gulati retires and Klinsmann takes over as President of the USSF. That will give him the full control he needs to truly revamp everything we do from the ground up. Honestly, I think he's a better administrator and director than he is a coach.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Holy $hit brewcity - ask and you shall receive!! Thanks so much for the detailed report!! Outstanding stuff. I'm literally forwarding your writing to my wife as she was curious about the same questions.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Holy $hit brewcity - ask and you shall receive!! Thanks so much for the detailed report!! Outstanding stuff. I'm literally forwarding your writing to my wife as she was curious about the same questions.

Happy to help ;)

Love talking about this kind of stuff, and sometimes once I get rambling, I just don't stop.