OT: USA World Cup Roster

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

GK: Tim Howard, Brad Guzan, Nick Rimando

D: Demarcus Beasley, Matt Besler, John Brooks, Timmy Chandler, Geoff Cameron, Omar Gonzalez, Fabian Johnson, DeAndre Yedlin

MF: Kyle Beckerman, Brad Davis, Michael Bradley, Alejandro Bedoya, Mix Diskerud, Jermaine Jones, Julian Green, Graham Zusi

FW: Jozy Altidore, Clint Dempsey, Aron Johanson, Chris Wondolowski

I'm very disappointed with this roster. The defense is going to struggle. Brooks is not ready for this kind of stage and Chandler hasn't earned it. Parkhurst and Goodson are more proven and ready. Yedlin is also very young, he may be able to create a goal with one scintillating run but could just as easily give it back at the other end.

In the midfield, Green doesn't belong. I have a feeling he was promised a spot. He is likely here to ensure he contributes in 2018 and 2022. Davis is also questionable but not as much as Green.

But the obvious glaring question is the omission of the greatest player in USA Soccer history, Landon Donovan. He has shown himself to be a World Cup match-winner before and his experience and savvy would be invaluable. Many are saying this team is built for 2018. All I can say is if they don't advance, every question Klinsmann faces about his roster decisions will be completely justified.

[Nukem2]

Certainly OT. Have no clue about any of this. Maybe IWB needs a separate OT sports board...?

[IrwinFletcher]

Out of respect, I thought they would give Donovan one last fling. He is the face of American Soccer right now and wonder if it will hurt short term PR wise. He is also a guy they could put in late in a match if they need a goal. Certainly his speed has diminished with age, but as a late game sub, could still be affective.

Bottom line, our chances come down to the fist game. If we can't get 3 points vs Ghana, we are done. Need 3 there, 1 vs. Portugal and then hope Germany has clinched things as plays us somewhat soft and we get a point there.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I wonder how different the roster would be if Klinsmann didn't already have a contract extension. This roster looks like it is built for success in 2018.

[MUfan12]

I wonder how different the roster would be if Klinsmann didn't already have a contract extension. This roster looks like it is built for success in 2018.

You don't sacrifice a World Cup for one four years from now. Especially with an Olympics, Copa America, Gold Cups, and Qualifying in between. Plenty of chances for the young guys to prove themselves.

As for this roster, I don't know how he's gonna make this work. Brooks, Chandler, and Green are nowhere near ready for this level. Donovan's omission was shocking. He's got quality, and is perfect to have on the bench.

There's really no true fullbacks on this roster as I look at it. I wonder if they'll play a 3-5-2 and use two wing backs, and try to take advantage of their pace out wide.

[Mucrisco]

When I have sen Donovan recently, he's looked really out of shape. That kind of shocked me. Take a look at 43:02. He looks a lot thicker to me.


http://youtu.be/fQURIuB-Wfc?t=43m2s

[Mucrisco]

The best part of Donovan's game has been his pace. He doesn't have that attacking mentality. He took a year off. The team did most of the qualifying without him. Bradley, Dempsey, and Altidore played much larger roles. If he doesn't have his pace and is out of shape, how much can he really contribute? His leadership? I'd rather have Dempsey's fire than Donovan's introspect. It was a bit shocking. His name was the first one I looked for. I was guessing he wouldn't make it, but it was still a surprise not to see his name. Regardless, I'm excited to watch the youthful fire. I think they could provide a spark, much like Donovan and Beasley did in their first World Cup. After writing that, it made me realize, who would have thought Beasley would last longer than Donovan?

Go USA! 50 Stars, 13 Stripes, 1 Heartbeat.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

But no number 10 ;)

The defense really is a concern. I like Besler, but who else on the roster is really trustworthy? Cameron should be if put at right back, but USA has never seemed to play him there. Gonzalez has both fitness and quality issues, he's very hit or miss which is dangerous against teams like Portugal and Germany. Beasley probably starts, but he is still clearly an out of position winger back there.

I like Johnson, but they usually push him to the midfield. Brooks isn't ready and Chandler abandoned the team for a year. Put aside leaving off LD for an 18-year-old who's done nothing at this level and you still wonder how Chandler's inclusion over proven commodities like Parkhurst and Goodson could impact chemistry with the established players.

I really think Klinsmann views Johansson, Green, Brooks, and Yedlin as the future stars. And they may be, but when a World Cup only comes every 4 years, you need to try to win now. I know JK doesn't think (and has said publicly) we are capable of winning a Cup now. Fine. But we are capable of making a run to the quarters or even semis. Because frankly, if we aren't ready this year, the odds are slim we will be a transformed nation in 4 years.

Leaving Donovan off was bad, but it was only one of 4-5 bad decisions. You simply cannot have a defense and team this young and unproven going into a World Cup.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

GK: Tim Howard, Brad Guzan, Nick Rimando

D: Demarcus Beasley, Matt Besler, John Brooks, Timmy Chandler, Geoff Cameron, Omar Gonzalez, Fabian Johnson, DeAndre Yedlin

MF: Kyle Beckerman, Brad Davis, Michael Bradley, Alejandro Bedoya, Mix Diskerud, Jermaine Jones, Julian Green, Graham Zusi

FW: Jozy Altidore, Clint Dempsey, Aron Johanson, Chris Wondolowski

I'm very disappointed with this roster. The defense is going to struggle. Brooks is not ready for this kind of stage and Chandler hasn't earned it. Parkhurst and Goodson are more proven and ready. Yedlin is also very young, he may be able to create a goal with one scintillating run but could just as easily give it back at the other end.

In the midfield, Green doesn't belong. I have a feeling he was promised a spot. He is likely here to ensure he contributes in 2018 and 2022. Davis is also questionable but not as much as Green.

But the obvious glaring question is the omission of the greatest player in USA Soccer history, Landon Donovan. He has shown himself to be a World Cup match-winner before and his experience and savvy would be invaluable. Many are saying this team is built for 2018. All I can say is if they don't advance, every question Klinsmann faces about his roster decisions will be completely justified.

Really? Come on now. Sure this is something the media will run with to generate controversy with uneducated fans but you sound like an educated fan and therefore know that this team was not a favorite to advance out of their group with Donovan or without him and with or without some of the players you reference. To say "if they don't advance, every question he faces about his roster will be justified" is just silly --- they are the 4th best team in their group (maybe the 3rd best) regardless of roster selection- there's a reason it's called the "group of death" and no magical roster combination is going to change that.

[TheSultan]

Out of respect, I thought they would give Donovan one last fling. He is the face of American Soccer right now and wonder if it will hurt short term PR wise. He is also a guy they could put in late in a match if they need a goal. Certainly his speed has diminished with age, but as a late game sub, could still be affective.


I agree with your last two sentences. He *could* be effective.

However I disagree with your first point. He should only be on the team if he can be effective. Not for PR reasons. I think that American Soccer has moved beyond the whole needing a face. (And I would argue Dempsey is more of one now anyway.)

[TheSultan]

I wonder how different the roster would be if Klinsmann didn't already have a contract extension. This roster looks like it is built for success in 2018.


In reading up on this a bit, there is some opinion that he sacrificed experience for youth and athleticism in order to match up better against the group. I don't know if I agree, but at least that seems a bit more logical than simply preparing for 2018.

[Nukem2]

Hey guys, IWB does have an "Off Topic" board. Go to BCB Home and click on Forums.....

[MUfan12]

Hey guys, IWB does have an "Off Topic" board. Go to BCB Home and click on Forums.....

I'd rather talk here about how the US Soccer team needs more bigs. ;)

[Mucrisco]

Hey guys, IWB does have an "Off Topic" board. Go to BCB Home and click on Forums.....

Come on man. Why is this thread that's clearly marked, off topic and World Cup, bothering you? Just don't click on it. Is it taking up space from the loads of Marquette basketball information that we are getting right now? It can't be because you are too lazy to move your eyes past this topic, seeing as how you took the time to click on it and respond, twice. Unfortunately, no one really checks that off topic board. There are more eyes on this one and thus better conversation.

Anyway, am I the only one that thinks Donovan is fat?

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

[/B]

Really? Come on now. Sure this is something the media will run with to generate controversy with uneducated fans but you sound like an educated fan and therefore know that this team was not a favorite to advance out of their group with Donovan or without him and with or without some of the players you reference. To say "if they don't advance, every question he faces about his roster will be justified" is just silly --- they are the 4th best team in their group (maybe the 3rd best) regardless of roster selection- there's a reason it's called the "group of death" and no magical roster combination is going to change that.

If you go with your best and don't advance, no one will question it. And I'm sorry, but there is no way John Anthony Brooks and Timmy Chandler are more ready to handle this group than Clarence Goodson or Michael Parkhurst. All they are is dual German citizens, which seems to have more import on this team than quality and experience. I recognize Yedlin to be inexperienced as well, but I see the value in his inclusion. I could even see an argument for Green if he were healthy, but he's not, and in his one appearance of any significance he made more mistakes than he did encouraging plays. The kid clearly has gobs of raw talent, but it's still very obviously raw, unlike the defenses of Germany and Portugal.

The reason I say that and stand by it fully is because if you bring the proven guys, or have mostly proven guys with 1-2 wild cards on the bench, no one will say you didn't get what you deserved. But if you go off-book (in this case way off-book) then you damn sure better be right. I think all the youth actually puts more pressure on this team than if he had went with the seasoned hands.

I also agree that Donovan should be there out of merit, but he's had some pretty solid outings with the national team of late. Donovan really returned at the Gold Cup last year. Who won the Golden Boot? Donovan. Who was named best player of the tournament? Donovan. Who scored in his return to World Cup qualifying against Mexico last year? Donovan. In the past year, he has earned his place on this team. He has worked his way back into the side because he scores in big occasions and saves his best for the international stage. I understand why Green, Davis, and Wondo are there. I know what Johannsson, Mix, and Beckerman bring as reserves. But I would sacrifice any of those players for the known commodity of Donovan, as well as anyone on the back line outside of Cameron, Besler, and Johnson. I'd rather see Donovan than the third keeper, Rimando, that we know will never sniff the pitch. The guy came back to the team, earned his way in, and did everything that was asked of him, all the while proving that he saves his best for these games and he can still play at an elite level in international competition. There's no way he should be left off. And worse, Donovan's exclusion isn't as concerning overall as the vast inexperience in our defense.

As far as the OT nature...I didn't see any complaints about OT topics about lacrosse, a turkey on campus, Donald Sterling, golf, Robinson Cano's response to critical Yankee fans, or other OT topics of the past month. It's clear what the topic is and it's easy to avoid. While there may be another part of the forum for this, I barely ever go to any forum that isn't off the Marquette Basketball tree and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.

[Nukem2]

Come on man. Why is this thread that's clearly marked, off topic and World Cup, bothering you? Just don't click on it. Is it taking up space from the loads of Marquette basketball information that we are getting right now? It can't be because you are too lazy to move your eyes past this topic, seeing as how you took the time to click on it and respond, twice. Unfortunately, no one really checks that off topic board. There are more eyes on this one and thus better conversation.

Anyway, am I the only one that thinks Donovan is fat?Well, that's why there is an Off Topic board. This is an MU board for MU sports. Maybe some are too lazy to go to the Off topic board. Goes both ways. My Irritation for the day.

[DCwarrior]

Bottom line is Donovan didn't earn a spot with his play the past two years. He's not fit, he's oft-injured and he hasn't played well in MLS the past year. Just because he was a great player in the past doesn't justify giving him a spot on the current team.

Clearly Klinsmann wanted speed on this team with his selections and he wants to keep the pipeline of very talented German/American dual citizens coming. My biggest beaf about who made the team is Beasley...he's old, week and consistently gets beaten by good teams/players. In the end though, we're debating who our reserves will be. None of the guys cut were going to be starters.

[TheSultan]

The reason I say that and stand by it fully is because if you bring the proven guys, or have mostly proven guys with 1-2 wild cards on the bench, no one will say you didn't get what you deserved. But if you go off-book (in this case way off-book) then you damn sure better be right. I think all the youth actually puts more pressure on this team than if he had went with the seasoned hands.


Here you are making the argument that he should have played it safe. But I'm not sure playing it safe in this group gets you anywhere.

[Markedman]

I have sat next to Donovan at Mark Miller’s shootout and I don’t think he would make a difference on the team.

I think his best competitive days are behind him…….but he sure does like to yell at the refs...

[Mucrisco]

If you go with your best and don't advance, no one will question it. And I'm sorry, but there is no way John Anthony Brooks and Timmy Chandler are more ready to handle this group than Clarence Goodson or Michael Parkhurst. All they are is dual German citizens, which seems to have more import on this team than quality and experience. I recognize Yedlin to be inexperienced as well, but I see the value in his inclusion. I could even see an argument for Green if he were healthy, but he's not, and in his one appearance of any significance he made more mistakes than he did encouraging plays. The kid clearly has gobs of raw talent, but it's still very obviously raw, unlike the defenses of Germany and Portugal.

The reason I say that and stand by it fully is because if you bring the proven guys, or have mostly proven guys with 1-2 wild cards on the bench, no one will say you didn't get what you deserved. But if you go off-book (in this case way off-book) then you damn sure better be right. I think all the youth actually puts more pressure on this team than if he had went with the seasoned hands.

I also agree that Donovan should be there out of merit, but he's had some pretty solid outings with the national team of late. Donovan really returned at the Gold Cup last year. Who won the Golden Boot? Donovan. Who was named best player of the tournament? Donovan. Who scored in his return to World Cup qualifying against Mexico last year? Donovan. In the past year, he has earned his place on this team. He has worked his way back into the side because he scores in big occasions and saves his best for the international stage. I understand why Green, Davis, and Wondo are there. I know what Johannsson, Mix, and Beckerman bring as reserves. But I would sacrifice any of those players for the known commodity of Donovan, as well as anyone on the back line outside of Cameron, Besler, and Johnson. I'd rather see Donovan than the third keeper, Rimando, that we know will never sniff the pitch. The guy came back to the team, earned his way in, and did everything that was asked of him, all the while proving that he saves his best for these games and he can still play at an elite level in international competition. There's no way he should be left off. And worse, Donovan's exclusion isn't as concerning overall as the vast inexperience in our defense.

As far as the OT nature...I didn't see any complaints about OT topics about lacrosse, a turkey on campus, Donald Sterling, golf, Robinson Cano's response to critical Yankee fans, or other OT topics of the past month. It's clear what the topic is and it's easy to avoid. While there may be another part of the forum for this, I barely ever go to any forum that isn't off the Marquette Basketball tree and I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.
I think you have to take 3 keepers per the rules.

[MUMac]

I have sat next to Donovan at Mark Miller’s shootout and I don’t think he would make a difference on the team.

I think his best competitive days are behind him…….but he sure does like to yell at the refs...

He had competitive days? Are you sure about that?

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Here you are making the argument that he should have played it safe. But I'm not sure playing it safe in this group gets you anywhere.

It's not just playing it safe, though. Even without his pace, we know Donovan won't crack under pressure (156 caps tell me that), can unlock a tight defense (58 assists indicate that), and is as reliable as they come in the world from the penalty spot (57 goals confirm that). Further, we know he can excel at the international level, as he won the Golden Boot and Player of the Tournament at the Gold Cup less than a year ago. There's no one on this team (Dempsey included) that can be trusted from the spot.

I fully agree in bringing some guys that are "unsafe" picks to open things up. But in Chandler, Yedlin, Green, Diskerud, Johannsson, and Brooks you are talking about over 25% of the roster. You bring a few of those guys (I'd vote Yedlin, Diskerud, and Johannsson, with Green on the fence if there's an unspoken guarantee) and make sure there are some guys on the bench you can count on like Donovan and Goodson when you need to either protect a lead or get an equalizer.

I have to think at a glance the starting eleven will be Howard, Besler, Gonzalez, Cameron, Beasley, Bradley, Jones, Johnson, Zusi, Dempsey, and Altidore. Of the 12 players on the bench, there are a combined 14 international goals, 9 of those by Wondo. So outside of Wondo, that's 9 field players that have combined for 5 goals, and only 2 field players on the bench actually bring experience (Beckerman and Bedoya are the only 2 with 20+ caps). Again, not saying you should completely play it safe, but that's well beyond the bounds of safe.

EDIT: It may just be that I'm a fan of Landycakes and feel he's gotten the short end of the stick from way too many people for way too long. But just as a figure, he will bring a lot more to the locker room than someone like Chandler who is widely viewed as a cancer that was ready to quit the team, someone like Green who is barely able to speak English, or someone like Mix (whom I love) that is basically a poor man's Donovan.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Brew - I think you misunderstood my comment saying what you said was silly. I am by no means arguing for or against leaving Donovan or anyone else off the roster as I don't follow the team enough to comment on the lineup/roster intricacies, etc. I do believe Klinsman should be questioned on, amongst other things, his roster construction, if the team lays an egg and stinks up the joint for 3 days. However, that's not what you said - you said his roster decisions should be seriously questioned if they don't advance past the group stage. There's a big difference there as even if this team plays to it's full potential and proves that Klinsman did make the right moves it probably still won't be enough to advance. Does that make sense?

[Mucrisco]

Regarding Donovan's leadership: the guy was continually told that his roster spot was not a sure thing. Knowing that, why would he come into camp out of shape and overweight? Does he really have that fire anymore? I would rather have a guy with fire, like Dempsey or Bradley, setting the tone in the locker room than Donovan. With Donovan there, he might get in the way. The team needs to be hungry. Putting a guy on the roster out of respect does not match up with that mentality. Touch cut for sure. I am not one of those guys that have hated on Landon. It is disappointing that he won't be there. In fact, I've been harsher on Bradley in the past. Now, I think he's clearly our best player.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Brew - I think you misunderstood my comment saying what you said was silly. I am by no means arguing for or against leaving Donovan or anyone else off the roster as I don't follow the team enough to comment on the lineup/roster intricacies, etc. I do believe Klinsman should be questioned on, amongst other things, his roster construction, if the team lays an egg and stinks up the joint for 3 days. However, that's not what you said - you said his roster decisions should be seriously questioned if they don't advance past the group stage. There's a big difference there as even if this team plays to it's full potential and proves that Klinsman did make the right moves it probably still won't be enough to advance. Does that make sense?

I totally get it. Here's how I see it...if you take guys like Donovan, Goodson, and Parkhurst, all of whom seemed like solid bets (as did Boyd, who probably deserved it over Wondo, but I can accept that based on Wondo's NT form), there's no doubt that you are bringing the guys most ready to contribute now. So if you go out early, everyone will feel that the loss isn't because you picked the wrong team, it's because the players currently in the pool simply aren't good enough.

But that's not what happened. When you bring Green over Donovan, Brooks over Goodson, and Chandler over Parkhurst, Klinsmann is essentially saying "I am smarter than the rest of you and these kids with their combined 14 caps are better than those veterans and their 227 caps." He is saying that those kids, who have proven absolutely nothing at this level, are better options to win now than those guys that have won tons of matches for us. And if the team comes up short, the question won't be whether the players in the pool were good enough, it will be whether the players that were picked even belonged on the plane in the first place.

It's funny...by taking a less experienced roster, I think Klinsmann has actually put MORE pressure on this team to advance. There was very little pressure if you have the perceived strongest team. But when you say that these kids, these wet-behind-the-ears tweens are ahead of Donovan, which Klinsmann said directly today, and thus implied that the other questionable selections are ahead of the other guys that have performed at a high level for both club and country. If they fail, people won't look at the pool, they'll look at the inexperience and the guys that got left home. And there's no guarantee that these guys will still be in the mix in 2018. If they aren't, it's entirely possible that the way Brooks, Green, Chandler, Yedlin, and the other kids are remembered is only as the guys that weren't ready for this level. I'm not sure that's fair to anyone involved.

EDIT: And @crisco, agreed on Bradley. He is the engine room of this team. All respect to Dempsey, but Bradley is our best player and if we advance, it will likely be because of him more than anyone else.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

All good points esp regarding the amount of pressure on him by his selections---never looked at it from that angle.

But bc we don't know how the Donovan group would've performed in comparison to the new team, it's difficult to say that was a good decision or a bad decision prior to the games being played or even after the games are played (unless it's brutally apparent that the "new" team is awful).

Anyways it will be intresting to see how they do.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Yeah, if it's bad it will always be a "what if" that can ever be answered. But had Donovan, Goodson, and Parkhurst been selected, no one ever would have asked no matter how bad the results.