OT- UWM Ban

[mufansince72]

http://www.jrn.com/tmj4/wi-sports/Report-UWM-mens-basketball-banned-from-2015-postseason-254627341.html

[TheSultan]

Missouri Valley dodges a bullet.

[Nukem2]

Missouri Valley dodges a bullet.Could be why it picked Loyola.....

[bergamont]

Go read Fran's response on page 3 of thread on the villa. We're cooking the books.

[mufansince72]

Just wondering, how does a team like Kentucky that doesn't graduate anyone, since they seem to have 3-5 one and done's in any given year, manage to remain eligible in this age of APR's?

[Nukem2]

Just wondering, how does a team like Kentucky that doesn't graduate anyone, since they seem to have 3-5 one and done's in any given year, manage to remain eligible in this age of APR's?Its about keeping guys grades up so they would be eligible to play the next semester if they had stayed. Guess Calipari does a good job of keeping guys in line to the end of the academic year?

[Goose85]

Same reason why coaches won't release kids as soon as they announce they want to transfer. They want to make sure the kid is on track grade wise through the semester end.

[IWB]

Another key is solid use of summer classes!!! Take a light load of the 'easier' classes during the year, take the 'tougher' classes during the summer when you can really focus on 1-2 classes per session!

I don't know the ins and outs of UWM's basketball academics (but apparently Fran knows MU's) but my guess would be the overload of walkons, transfers and Jucos hurts them. UWM's roster is frequently overloaded - right now they have 17 players on their roster. 6 are Jucos and 4 are transfers. MU made players like DJO, Dwight Buycks and Jae Crowder stay at Juco for the last summer trying to get up to the proper number of credits and had Jameel McKay pretty much doubling up on coursework his last year. At most schools, they take them right away as is, because most all of their credits transfer (PE etc). Credits are great, but do they apply to their major? If your major at UWM is Business or Communications, and at Juco you took a few core courses and a few PE classes, how close to being on track to your major are you? It is a tough deal.

I don't know all of the details about how the APR is calculated, but it is meant to keep SAs on track to graduate. While it is a good idea in theory, it can hurt transfers and also, doesn't it take away an SA's option of changing his major?

[MU/Panther]

Go read Fran's response on page 3 of thread on the villa. We're cooking the books. I hate reading his crap on the Panthers board. That guy has so much hate versus MU. I'll leave it at that otherwise....:mad: :mad:

[MUfan12]

Go read Fran's response on page 3 of thread on the villa. We're cooking the books.

I wonder if anyone at MU is aware of what he says. Doesn't his firm represent Marquette?

[Gato78]

I am not sure that his firm represents MU however, many of his partners are season ticket holders including some in the firm hierarchy.

[TedBaxter]

He carefully worded his post and left Marquette out, but everyone knows what school he was referring to.

[MayorBeluga]

I wonder if anyone at MU is aware of what he says. Doesn't his firm represent Marquette?

Assuming he's at the same large law firm, yes, they represent Marquette since MU traditionally spreads its legal work around (gotta keep those MULS alumni happy). I've often wondered why MU does not print out his postings and put them on the desk of his partners with a simple statement that this is not appropriate.

Fran holds himself out as an expert in legal ethics. I've always wanted to ask him the ethics of a lawyer bashing a client in a public forum, especially if that bashing takes the form of unfounded speculation. The fact said lawyer has an emotional attachment to some entity other than your client does not, in my opinion, change the answer.

[TheSultan]

IWB, as I understand it, there is no notion of progress toward a degree in APR scores. There is simply are they enrolled full time...and are they academically eligible...and do they progress to the next semester. Now of course, to be academically eligible, they have to hit some thresholds credit wise. But that doesn't mean they have to be relevant toward a degree and those thresholds are lower than most degree requirements.

Here is an example.

http://smcgaels.com/fls/21400/pdf/Compliance_Forms/what-is-apr.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=21400

[unclejohn]

I hate reading his crap on the Panthers board. That guy has so much hate versus MU. I'll leave it at that otherwise....:mad: :mad:

Couldn't find the post, but whatever it is, I am not surprised. Fran has hated us ever since the whole "play us when we're good" debate got started. He posted on Dodds' board when Lovell was hired, praising his work at UWM. That part was great. The part that nearly made me fall out of my chair was where he talked about how he always supported the Marquette program. I chose not to reply and turn the thread into a debate about ignorant Rodent posters, but few people have made more hate-filled comments about Marquette.

[IWB]

Sultan - I hear where you are coming from, but I guess it is all in how you read it.

It says right in the first paragraph, "The report is based on two factors: eligibility/progress towards graduation and retention.

So if you just take several classes and do well at them but do not progress towards a major, you will not graduate. That will cost you the retention point after your eligibility is up as you will not be enrolled the following semester. Exactly what I was referring to above. Especially when dealing with multiple Jucos, as they are on a 2 year cycle whereas a high school entry is on a four year cycle. Also, if I am Joe SA and I don't have credits towards a degree, why would I bother attending classes second semester of my final year of eligibility if I'm not graduating? (Melvin).

On top of that, most schools require that you work towards a degree. You can't just randomly take classes for 6 years if you are a full time student. I went to school with people that were bounced because they were not actively pursuing a major - one of which switched majors, so to the registrar's office it did not look like there was progress towards a degree after two years.

A team with 6 jucos where 3-4 of them might be behind on working towards an actual degree, they will get crushed.

Here is another question. A program like MU has the proper funds to support players beyond their eligibility. So if someone like Dwight Buycks has yet to graduate, MU will pay for him to come back and finish his degree in the off season. Will a program like UWM who does not have the same level of funding pay for 3 players to live and stay in Milwaukee after their eligibility is up? Will UWM pay $120k per year for 3 guys to stay in school after they are done playing? I don't know.

[MU/Panther]

Couldn't find the post, but whatever it is, I am not surprised. Fran has hated us ever since the whole "play us when we're good" debate got started. He posted on Dodds' board when Lovell was hired, praising his work at UWM. That part was great. The part that nearly made me fall out of my chair was where he talked about how he always supported the Marquette program. I chose not to reply and turn the thread into a debate about ignorant Rodent posters, but few people have made more hate-filled comments about Marquette. He had it on the Buckyville forum.
Someone asked me yesterday if I was embarrassed by this and all I could do was laugh. I'm unhappy about it, and as I said very disappointed for all the kids on next year's team who will be affected. But I'm certainly not embarrassed because it confirmed what I already knew. Nobody was cooking the books academically at Milwaukee. The athletes were expected to go to class. They were expected to do their own work. They were not handed ******** degrees. Nobody was receiving illegal benefits. You don't have to look very far at all to find different approaches to making sure there are no APR concerns. To some of our frequent visitors here, yeah, I'm talking about you. And you know it's true.

To me the failure is in identifying the right student-athletes to bring into the program and then developing a strong enough relationship to inspire the kids to take advantage of the opportunities and good enough support to make sure they have the resources they need. I'm disappointed in the kids who didn't finish, but like I said, the adults have to be responsible on all these fronts.

There is a certain subset of Badger fans who complain that Bo doesn't recruit some guys they want to see recruited. Not me.

http://buckyville.yuku.com/topic/72079/UW-Milwaukee-ineligible-for-201415-post-season-play

[TheSultan]

Here is another question. A program like MU has the proper funds to support players beyond their eligibility. So if someone like Dwight Buycks has yet to graduate, MU will pay for him to come back and finish his degree in the off season. Will a program like UWM who does not have the same level of funding pay for 3 players to live and stay in Milwaukee after their eligibility is up? Will UWM pay $120k per year for 3 guys to stay in school after they are done playing? I don't know.


Not just that, but if you read the press release, UWM had only one academic advisor for the entire basketball team. So in many ways, this is a resource issue. UWM simply doesn't have the money...yet again.

[TedBaxter]

To be very honest and this is coming from a parent of a UWM student, I think maybe they should go down to D2 or D3. They don't have the interest to generate the income for these resources either.

[IWB]

Ted mentioned resources - I wax at UWM and was just talking to a UWM person the other day, can't remember who, and the conversation probably stemmed from something I saw here.

She was complaining about how much the state puts in to UW-Madison as opposed to UWM. She was saying how everything at Madison is up to date, the newest, the biggest, the best - while everything at UWM is old and run down. Now I know that most of it comes from donations, but I wonder what the reSl numbers are.

[Halo]

I knew right away when this came out that people like BBFRan and Butch would be saying this about MU. "UWM does it the right way, that's why they are in trouble".

Typical attack on MU for no reason.

His comment to me also is a pretty outrageous allegation on a public forum. If he puts that out there, I would hope someone that knows him or MU asks him to back it up.

[Goose85]

Ted mentioned resources - I wax at UWM and was just talking to a UWM person the other day, can't remember who, and the conversation probably stemmed from something I saw here.

She was complaining about how much the state puts in to UW-Madison as opposed to UWM. She was saying how everything at Madison is up to date, the newest, the biggest, the best - while everything at UWM is old and run down. Now I know that most of it comes from donations, but I wonder what the reSl numbers are.

Weren't they collecting student fees for years now to upgrade the facilities?

UWM has the only D1 baseball team in the state and they play in a crap field while D3 schools have better facilities.
Not sure about land around UWM too. Really too bad the athletic department has been in such disarray as they missed the boat on the whole conference realignment opportunity.

[MayorBeluga]

I wax at UWM

Dude, no one here wants to know where you wax. Shudder.

[IWB]

Sorry - was typing from phone.