Well, here we go....

[Nukem2]

Four games in these next 10 days. Games which obviously will tell the tale of MU's regular conference season and what MU's post-season opportunities will be (excluding the BET ). The next two opponents are very much guard oriented. As such, performance MU's guard corps is very important. The ride begins.....to where...? Lets Go Warriors...!

[Goose85]

Hopefully both the team and the fans bring a ton of energy to the BC tonight. It may be cold, but I really hope the BC is hot tonight!

Huge opportunity to switch spots with GTown and move into the tourney bubble discussion tonight. Can't wait for tip time!

[CaribouJim]

Just realized that our last four games are against 4 of the original Big East teams or at least I thought they were. Didn't know 'Nova came a tad later and didn't know that Holy Cross turned down an invite - ouch. When you revisit the present day map, with the exception of Creighton, it looks pretty clean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_East_Conference

In any event, have to win both home games and split the road games - beat 'Nova and a lot of pressure is off in making a deep BE tourney run. Actually Nukem2, all four teams we have left have studly backcourts.

[milkbone]

MU is favored by 4 pts tonight.

[2013UnleashTheBeast]

Just realized that our last four games are against 4 of the original Big East teams or at least I thought they were. Didn't know 'Nova came a tad later and didn't know that Holy Cross turned down an invite - ouch. When you revisit the present day map, with the exception of Creighton, it looks pretty clean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_East_Conference

In any event, have to win both home games and split the road games - beat 'Nova and a lot of pressure is off in making a deep BE tourney run. Actually Nukem2, all four teams we have left have studly backcourts.

The Studly Backcourts - a great name for a terrible band. Hypthetically speaking, of course.

[Nukem2]

Just realized that our last four games are against 4 of the original Big East teams or at least I thought they were. Didn't know 'Nova came a tad later and didn't know that Holy Cross turned down an invite - ouch. When you revisit the present day map, with the exception of Creighton, it looks pretty clean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_East_Conference

In any event, have to win both home games and split the road games - beat 'Nova and a lot of pressure is off in making a deep BE tourney run. Actually Nukem2, all four teams we have left have studly backcourts.

Just focusing on this weekend for starters. Though, G-Town and Nova do rely more heavily on perimeter play. SJU has a lot of frontcourt strength and PC is more inside oriented outside of Bryce Cotton.

[Phantom Warrior]

Just as an interesting mental munchy...rank the four point guards we will be facing over the next four games and then include Derrick in the ranking. Then do the same for the off guards. I hate to say this, but we could easily lose all four games. I don't expect that to happen, but if it did, I would not be shocked.

[Nukem2]

Just as an interesting mental munchy...rank the four point guards we will be facing over the next four games and then include Derrick in the ranking. Then do the same for the off guards. I hate to say this, but we could easily lose all four games. I don't expect that to happen, but if it did, I would not be shocked.
Yep, its not an easy road ahead. G-Town is playing well since Trawick came back from his injury, Nova is tough at home, PC is chomping at the bit to beat MU at the Dunkin Donut and SJU could manhandle MU again. Need to play hard and smart for every possession.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Point Guards

1) Bryce Cotton, PROV The kid does everything. Points, assists, he even rebounds. Turns it over a little too much, but that's expected when you have it in your hands as much as he does. Deserves All-American consideration.
2) Ryan Arciadiacono, NOVA I'd guess most would take Markel Starks, but not me, and it's not close. Archie takes great care of the ball, can score when needed, and is one of those guys you want to have the ball at the end of the game.
3) Markel Starks, GT Starks is a fine player, but is more a shooting guard than a point. Turns it over too much and shoots too much, especially with his low FG%. I'd take him ahead of Derrick, but barely. Really was a tough decision.
4) Derrick Wilson, MU Jordan may have more long-term upside, but Derrick is better now. Takes care of the ball, very good at providing for teammates (only Cotton averages more assists), and is learning how and when to get his shot. Probably the best defender of the group, though Starks is up there.
5) Rysheed Jordan, SJU He has potential, but isn't on par with the others on this list yet. His usage is way too high for a guy as offensively inefficient as he is. Third highest usage on the Johnnies, but the least offensively efficient player they have (including Branch and Achiuwa). Turns it over too much as well.

Shooting Guards

1) D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera, GT This one isn't even close. Scores inside and out, gets to the line and converts, and unlike many SGs doesn't turn the ball over.
2) Darrun Hilliard, NOVA He often seems like the forgotten man on Villanova, behind the gaudy point totals of Bell and Pinkston and the cult following of Archie, but this guy can score, rebound, and on the offensive end has vision that almost gives you a second point guard out there.
3) Todd Mayo, MU Mayo is inconsistent and mixes "holy crap!" plays with "what the <bleep>" plays on a nightly basis, but when he's on he can absolutely take over a game. If he were as good on the road as he is at home, he might be up there with DSR.
4) Phil Greene, SJU Does a little bit of everything, but not a lot of anything. Strikes me as belonging in the "just a guy" category. Decent shot, but not at all a special player. Only hit double-digits 7 times all year, and only once in conference play.
5) Josh Fortune, PROV Fortune does one thing really well: play a ton of minutes. I'm not really impressed by what he does with them, but he does play them. In Providence's last 2 games, Fortune averaged 44.5 minutes. He has actually been decent the past few games, but I'm just not impressed. Maybe it was his poor play at the BC, maybe it was the Providence fans behind me heckling him every time he came in, but I think he's just not much of a player.

And if you want an overall backcourt ranking...

1) Villanova
2) Georgetown
3) Providence (but barely...Cotton alone has them here)
4) Marquette
5) St. John's

[AlexJesswein]

Greene and not Harrison...LOL

[Nukem2]

Point Guards

1) Bryce Cotton, PROV The kid does everything. Points, assists, he even rebounds. Turns it over a little too much, but that's expected when you have it in your hands as much as he does. Deserves All-American consideration.
2) Ryan Arciadiacono, NOVA I'd guess most would take Markel Starks, but not me, and it's not close. Archie takes great care of the ball, can score when needed, and is one of those guys you want to have the ball at the end of the game.
3) Markel Starks, GT Starks is a fine player, but is more a shooting guard than a point. Turns it over too much and shoots too much, especially with his low FG%. I'd take him ahead of Derrick, but barely. Really was a tough decision.
4) Derrick Wilson, MU Jordan may have more long-term upside, but Derrick is better now. Takes care of the ball, very good at providing for teammates (only Cotton averages more assists), and is learning how and when to get his shot. Probably the best defender of the group, though Starks is up there.
5) Rysheed Jordan, SJU He has potential, but isn't on par with the others on this list yet. His usage is way too high for a guy as offensively inefficient as he is. Third highest usage on the Johnnies, but the least offensively efficient player they have (including Branch and Achiuwa). Turns it over too much as well.

Shooting Guards

1) D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera, GT This one isn't even close. Scores inside and out, gets to the line and converts, and unlike many SGs doesn't turn the ball over.
2) Darrun Hilliard, NOVA He often seems like the forgotten man on Villanova, behind the gaudy point totals of Bell and Pinkston and the cult following of Archie, but this guy can score, rebound, and on the offensive end has vision that almost gives you a second point guard out there.
3) Todd Mayo, MU Mayo is inconsistent and mixes "holy crap!" plays with "what the <bleep>" plays on a nightly basis, but when he's on he can absolutely take over a game. If he were as good on the road as he is at home, he might be up there with DSR.
4) Phil Greene, SJU Does a little bit of everything, but not a lot of anything. Strikes me as belonging in the "just a guy" category. Decent shot, but not at all a special player. Only hit double-digits 7 times all year, and only once in conference play.
5) Josh Fortune, PROV Fortune does one thing really well: play a ton of minutes. I'm not really impressed by what he does with them, but he does play them. In Providence's last 2 games, Fortune averaged 44.5 minutes. He has actually been decent the past few games, but I'm just not impressed. Maybe it was his poor play at the BC, maybe it was the Providence fans behind me heckling him every time he came in, but I think he's just not much of a player.

And if you want an overall backcourt ranking...

1) Villanova
2) Georgetown
3) Providence (but barely...Cotton alone has them here)
4) Marquette
5) St. John's
Think you are forgetting about D'Angelo Harrison of SJU. Also, Rysheed Jordan has been very impressive recently.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Not forgetting him at all. Harrison plays mostly at the 3 for SJU, including any time Greene is in, which is over 50% of their minutes. Greene plays 24.3 mpg. He plays all of those minutes at the 2. So tell me again, who is the 2 for St. John's?

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

That's why I thought that question by PW was somewhat silly. He's trying to load it against the guys on MU's roster. Harrison will play the 2 at the next level. But at this level, he plays the 3. And I agree, Jordan is improving, but I'd still take Derrick ahead of him at this point. Just like I wouldn't take Dawson over Derrick because of a good performance or two.

[CaribouJim]

That's why I thought that question by PW was somewhat silly. He's trying to load it against the guys on MU's roster. Harrison will play the 2 at the next level. But at this level, he plays the 3. And I agree, Jordan is improving, but I'd still take Derrick ahead of him at this point. Just like I wouldn't take Dawson over Derrick because of a good performance or two.

Your loyalty is commendable brew, but you are still living in a parallel universe.

[ChitownAl]

Think you are forgetting about D'Angelo Harrison of SJU. Also, Rysheed Jordan has been very impressive recently.

Brew, Good Stuff as usual. Way to bring it. I missed on Harrison too, and appreciate your pointing that out.

Although this thread veered off Nuke's original focus, I found the Guard comparison interesting. Elsewhere today, I opined that my real key to victory over the remaining league schedule was the Defensive play of the entire MU Guard corp.

MU guards need to be more perimeter-focused to hold these teams from going-off on us from 3 land. This maybe more of a Buzz strategy (sag off) than skill level, but MU just can't let any of them get going anymore. I see this as the real key to a stretch run. Nova, Johnnies, Prov and even Gtown don't always wait for Paint Touches first - they come firing


I also see this Challenge as more than for starters and Mayo - Dawsome and JJJ can't play like frosh, and make D mistake upon D mistake at this point in the season when they are given their chances. If they aren't playing, let's face it - they aren't good at learning the scouting report (per Buzz on radio last night) and that is why they aren't seeing floor. In the stretch run, MU doesn't have time to gamble valuable playing time to give them floor experience .


Fans are O-orientated, so they usually complain about our PG scoring, but I don't see this group necessarily outscoring opponents unless they can hold opponents' guards below their scoring averages. Total "Lockdown" D is a pipe dream. But D is and always has been MU's calling card. It is up to our guards D to hold opponents guards below scoring average tonight, and in the stretch run, for MU to be successful.

[kneelb4zerg]

Your loyalty is commendable brew, but you are still living in a parallel universe.

At least he's backing his analysis with facts, as opposed to off-the-cuff "Derrick Wilson can't shoot so he sucks"-type arguments.

[AlexJesswein]

At least he's backing his analysis with facts, as opposed to off-the-cuff arguments.

Some don't even like hearing that...if it doesn't put MU or their players in a good light.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Your loyalty is commendable brew, but you are still living in a parallel universe.

Then give me evidence as to why.

Harrison plays the majority of his minutes at the 3. I don't know what parallel universe I'm in to observe that, but it is what is it. Derrick is more offensively efficient, averages more assists and fewer turnovers than Jordan, and is a better defender. Maybe that's a parallel universe too. I'm not making anything up here. :confused:

And would anyone really take Greene or Fortune ahead of Mayo? I mean, I guess his inconsistency could be reason enough, but I don't think you need to go to a parallel universe to see that Todd is a better player than either of them, certainly when he's on his game.

[Phantom Warrior]

I don't think it's valid switching Mayo for Jake. Jake is averaging almost six mpg more than Todd. In fact, Jake ranks second on the team at 28.5 mpg, second only to Derrick.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

He also conveniently switched Mayo for Jake even though Jake is averaging 6 more mpg than Todd. In fact, at 28.5 mpg Jake ranks second on the team behind only Derrick. Nice bait and switch move, but somewhat disingenuous.

No, you're the one with the bait and switch. Recently Mayo and Jake have been playing most of their minutes together, and Jake has been playing the three. He's been the one crashing the boards and more likely to guard big. So nice try, but your entire intent was to stack a disingenuous argument against the same two players you've been trying to bash all season long. You tried to troll. You failed. Deal.

Now if you want to go all the way to the three, then fine. Here's the list:

Marquette - Jake Thomas
St. John's - D'Angelo Harrison
Georgetown - Jabril Trawick
Providence - LaDontae Henton
Villanova - James Bell

Will it make you feel better if I put Jake at the bottom of that list?

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I think you make good points, but I think you highlight the issue for Marquette this season, the starting 3 for St. John's is a top 50 player and ours is a former walk on. You suggest that it's not fair to compare them because one was highly rated and one wasn't, but I'd argue that the original statement that kicked this whole thing off was to compare the talent level of the teams we face down the stretch, and by that statement alone you proved the point the OP was trying to make. We simply have a less talented roster this year than the other teams we are facing.

Also I still count Thomas and Harrison as back court players as both teams run multiple 3 guard lineups, just because 5 guys are on the floor at the same time doesn't mean they fit into the 1,2,3,4,5 mold...

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I'm not saying it's unfair to compare them. I'm saying that if you're going to compare by positions, at least pick the right guys, don't just cherry pick to fit an agenda.

We got hurt drastically by losing Blue. If he was still here, most likely him and Mayo would still be getting most of the time at the 2 and 3 and I'd put Van up against anyone on that list. He's not, so we deal with what we have. Did Buzz fail to fill that role with a ready-to-go guy? I won't deny that. Like I said, I'd put Jake at the bottom of that list. But if we keep going to the 4 and 5, I have a feeling Jamil and CO/Gardner would fare pretty well in comparisons just off the top of my head.

While CBB doesn't always adhere to traditional roles, I look at the role guys play. On St. John's, it's pretty clear that the role Greene plays is that of the 2 and the role Harrison plays is that of the 3. Thomas is the one hitting the boards while Mayo is doing more to initiate the offense. That tells me the former is the three and the latter the two. Just like last year we ran three guards and Lockett would have been the three with Van the two, and the year before Van was more the three and DJO the two.

EDIT: And I apologize if I'm going on about this, but seriously, how many times do the same people have to ask the same questions? We get it, you don't like the guys on the floor for whatever reason. Maybe you have no problem with their character, but you hate that they play for Marquette, hate that they get as many minutes as they do, and the only joy you get out of them is the time you spend doing the keyboard jockey derision. I get it. We all get it. And it's old. Can't we just get through this next month without spending all this time continuing to bash Derrick and Jake?

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Buzz has stated multiple times that his guys 2-4 are switchable and his rebounding philosophy has nothing to do with position and more to do with how he wants to defend because you can't have everyone going for the rebound, or everyone going back to defend. I think you are making assumptions and trying to fit things into the traditional roles, I think that is where you are losing touch with the argument and point that is trying to be made.

Both ESPN, the schools websites, and I'm sure if you asked the coaches they would all tell you that Harrison and Thomas are Guards, even if occasionally they get rebounds or play on the floor with other guards

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

If that's the case, the point was lost the minute PW tried to compare backcourts in yet another attempt to bash Derrick and Jake. I addressed the argument in the most basic, basketball-conventional manner possible. If that's unfair, it's because the question was designed that way.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I think he was stating an opinion that our backcourt is not as good as the other back courts we will face in the last few games, that's hardly a "silly" statement, even in your assessment you had us below G'town and Nova, and as many pointed out we include Harrison in that group which many feel would put them above Marquette also... I think Caribou was right here, many can call it hating on those two guys, but sometimes the truth hurts.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I think he was stating an opinion that our backcourt is not as good as the other back courts we will face in the last few games, that's hardly a "silly" statement, even in your assessment you had us below G'town and Nova, and as many pointed out we include Harrison in that group which many feel would put them above Marquette also... I think Caribou was right here, many can call it hating on those two guys, but sometimes the truth hurts.

It's just really tired, because for some posters, it seems to be all they can post about. Why are we competing for #3 in the Big East? Because we also have a great frontcourt. But rather than be glad for what Jamil, Davante, and Otule have been doing, it's more convenient/fun/en vogue to bash the backcourt. It just gets really tiring.

Further, when these guys do make strides (and both Derrick and Jake have had some good games of late) the same people give them a back-handed compliment or two and conveniently forget the next day how much better these guys have been in Big East play than they were to start the season.

Instead of being glad that we have this chance to salvage what so many wrote off as a lost season, we bash Derrick and Jake. Instead of saluting our excellent graduating senior frontcourt, we bash Derrick and Jake. Instead of talking about what a great coaching job this has been by Buzz, we bash Derrick and Jake. And anyone that wants to bash Derrick and Jake and say that Buzz has had a forgettable year coaching is a complete and utter hypocrite, because how could ANYONE be expected to contend for a top-3 spot in the Big East with players as "bad" as Derrick and Jake?

It's tired. Honestly, it's the same kind of crap that pervaded Scoop. The irony is that Phantom Warrior is so dyed-in-the-wool anti-MUScoop, but his behavior of late is the type that would fit in perfectly over there.

[Nukem2]

As I noted in the initial post in this thread, MU's guard corps will be very important in the quest for success over the next 4 games. Let's not bash individuals.

[IrwinFletcher]

So, about that Jake bashing......:o

[kneelb4zerg]

So, about that Jake bashing......:o

Played with a partially dislocated shoulder according to a post on Scoop...

[pbiflyer]

So, about that Jake bashing......:o

I know, I can't believe how the announcers when on and on about how bad MU backcourt was, forced to play a former walk on and a PG that couldn't shoot. Oh wait.......:D

[mutpm]

There is a chance Jake sneaks into the top 10 for all time 3 point shooting %. He is at 37.7% in his MU career after last night. Roney Eford is 10th at 38.5% That wouldn't be a bad way for Jake to end his career after walking on, getting a scholarship, losing the scholarship, announcing he was leaving the team, and then getting the scholarship back.

[Markedman]

How many do you have to make to qualify? You wouldn't think he could make enough in really only 1 year of play to qualify

[mutpm]

According to the media guide, it's 100 attempts (which seems really low). He is 69-183 through Thursday night. It's still a long shot for Jake. He would need to shoot near 50% from 3 the rest of the season, depending on the number of attempts he gets.