Getting Georgetown Into NCAA's

[warriorfan4life]

I'd love for the Big East to get five teams in this year, especially with two of three flagship programs in the league (G-Town and Marquette) not up to their normal standard this year (Nova is the other flagship program). While the good guys are all but cooked (and show zero signs of a strong run to end the season), Georgetown picked up a massive win over Michigan State yesterday and propelled themselves strongly into the NCAA discussion. Georgetown now has a real solid non-conference resume, with wins over Sparty, VCU, and Kansas State (all likely tournament teams). Now, they have the small problem of a 3-6 conference record to rectify.

Their remaining schedule lines up like this:
Home: Butler, Providence, Xavier, Creighton
Away: DePaul, St. John's, Seton Hall, Marquette, Villanova

If Hoyas win 7 of the last 9 and get to 10-8 in the league, they will definitely be safely in the field. A tough ask, but certainly doable with just one long shot game on that ledger (at Nova). Now, it gets more interesting if they finish 9-9. I would strongly back their bid, especially with Trawick out for a bunch of the losses (he came back against Nova on Monday). I personally think that the Big East is strong enough to support a 9-9 team that did some really nice things out of the league, and think it would be a big statement perception wise to put a .500 in conference team in the field. I know this is a clear high-major league, but I'd love for some of the morons in the media to get that message stamped across with a worthy fifth place team in the league getting into the dance.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I think Providence has work to do also... I'll be happy if we get 4 in, if we get 5 I'll be ecstatic.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Not sure how the split worked in regards to NCAA tournament credits, but for this year we would get $245k per year for the next 6 years for each game played as a conference... So 4 teams in = $980,000 or $98,000 per year, per team and that's assuming nobody advances... 5 teams would be $1.225 million or $122,500 per year, per team... Now it's likely that if we get 4-5 teams in that someone will win at least a game so that is a baseline not a final number. I think this league will struggle to match old Big East revenues with even only having to split 10 ways as opposed to 16 ways

[MU_Iceman]

Who cares?? Let's worry about getting or how to get MU into the NCAA's...Georgetown and Providence?? I could give two shits about them. I hope they don't get in.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Ice - Sometimes your responses are so ridiculous and this is one of them. I think the original poster is going on the assumption that Marq is not going to make it. Sure we can talk all day about how to get Marq in the tourney (which we do inecessantly on this board) but obviously that is a serious long shot right now. If you arent able to realize the importance of getting as many Big East teams in the tourney in it's first year than I don't know what to tell you.

[MU_Iceman]

Ice - Sometimes your responses are so ridiculous and this is one of them. I think the original poster is going on the assumption that Marq is not going to make it. Sure we can talk all day about how to get Marq in the tourney (which we do inecessantly on this board) but obviously that is a serious long shot right now. If you arent able to realize the importance of getting as many Big East teams in the tourney in it's first year than I don't know what to tell you.


I'm sorry....but this has always been a bone of contention of mine. People always talk about, how if "my team can't win it then i want X team to win it". I will use football as an example..Packer fans, of which I am one, always say, "well, if the Bears or Lions or Vikings do this, it makes the division look better". NO NO NO!!! WHO CARES??? I hope they lose every game they play. I'm a Packer fan, period. I want success for them and them only! Same applies to Marquette. I NEVER root for any BE teams in Non conference(unless they play a few certain teams), and If MU isn't going to be in the dance, I don't want any of them to be. I want MU to be the cream of the crop. This conference is what it is, it's going to do what it's going to do. Unfortunately, MU is stuck in it(and quite frankly, sucking in it), and unfortunately, regardless of how many teams make it into the dance it will NEVER change people's perception that it's a mid major conference. I hope all the BE teams that make it in lose in the 1st round. I couldn't care less about the NCAAs this year, and won't watch them. Which is sad because I LIVE for the NCAA tourney every year and have taken off work for as long as I can remember. I'm so disgruntled over this debacle of a season by MU(when it should have never been this bad) that I'm bitter..I have MU to thank for that. Thanks MU!!

[TheSultan]

The only people who think the current BE is "mid-major" are those who don't have a clue about college basketball. No matter what happens, that perception isn't going to change so there really isn't anything we can do about it.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

I'm sorry....but this has always been a bone of contention of mine. People always talk about, how if "my team can't win it then i want X team to win it". I will use football as an example..Packer fans, of which I am one, always say, "well, if the Bears or Lions or Vikings do this, it makes the division look better". NO NO NO!!! WHO CARES??? I hope they lose every game they play. I'm a Packer fan, period. I want success for them and them only! Same applies to Marquette. I NEVER root for any BE teams in Non conference(unless they play a few certain teams), and If MU isn't going to be in the dance, I don't want any of them to be. I want MU to be the cream of the crop. This conference is what it is, it's going to do what it's going to do. Unfortunately, MU is stuck in it(and quite frankly, sucking in it), and unfortunately, regardless of how many teams make it into the dance it will NEVER change people's perception that it's a mid major conference. I hope all the BE teams that make it in lose in the 1st round. I couldn't care less about the NCAAs this year, and won't watch them. Which is sad because I LIVE for the NCAA tourney every year and have taken off work for as long as I can remember. I'm so disgruntled over this debacle of a season by MU(when it should have never been this bad) that I'm bitter..I have MU to thank for that. Thanks MU!!

In all seriousness, how old are you? Your response wreaks of immaturity and irrationality.

To start the NFL is a completely different animal than college buckets but I digress...

Mid major or high major - the below logic chain applies to either.

-Do you believe a higher number of bids indicates a stronger or weaker conference? I'll assume your answer to be stronger.
-Do you believe a conference being viewed as stonger leads to higher volume and quality of recruits coming to the conference? I'll assume your answer to be yes.
-Do you believe that a higher volume and quality of recruits to said conference increases or decreases the probability of a team within the conference signing these recruits? I'll assume your answer to be increases.
-Do you believe getting a larger amount of higher quality recruits leads to a higher probability of sustained success of a program? I'll assume your answer to be yes.

Therefore how can you reasonably say that the Big East having or not having success has zero impact on the probability of Marquette's ability to be good going forward. Of course it is up to the individual program itself to take advantage of these increased probabilities and sustain a successful program as we know many do not (DePaul, SH, BC, NCState, PSU, etc). But the fact is, being part of a better conference increases the probabilities of Marquette being better. By your logic, we would have the same probabilities of being good if we were in the Sun Belt Conference.

[TheSultan]

He's already said that he wanted to be like Memphis. To dominate a weaker conference. Which is strange because the conference that Memphis was dominating was clearly a mid-major.

[warriorfan4life]

He's already said that he wanted to be like Memphis. To dominate a weaker conference. Which is strange because the conference that Memphis was dominating was clearly a mid-major.

And Memphis is finding life a bit more difficult in a good, not great AAC (that still has five crappy teams).

[MU_Iceman]

He's already said that he wanted to be like Memphis. To dominate a weaker conference. Which is strange because the conference that Memphis was dominating was clearly a mid-major.


Exactly!! The current BE IS a mid major conference, I hate to say that but it is. I don't care how good the reputations of some of these schools in it are, the fact of the matter is, without some REALLY REALLY REALLY good fortune, there isn't/won't be one team in this conference(though I do hope MU becomes one) on a yearly basis that would have a legitimate shot of winning a National Championship. Not one. The old BE had probably 5 or 6 every year you could have made an argument for. How far MU has fallen in one short year(in stature) is quite frankly...unbelievable, no matter the reasons. If they were playing this badly in the old BE, okay they'd probably get a pass to some extent, but to be this bad in a weak conference, when you were a near unanimous pick to win it at the start of the year(even AFTER your stud Guard declared), just is dumbfounding. The fact that MU is in the lower half of a bad conference...is quite frankly, in a word...pathetic, and inexcusable. If they can't even finish well above .500 in this lame ass conference(every single year), then quite honestly, there is no hope for MU basketball. The fact that MU can't dominate this conference is absolutely pathetic. A program of MU's stature getting rolled game in game out by lesser programs?? That's something to be proud of!!

I don't like this new BE, and I never will. Period. It sucks. And unfortunately, so does MU this year, further pissing me off.

[TheSultan]

Iceman...sorry.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/conference

The problem with a lot of conferences is that, while they have attracted some top notch programs, they have also created a lot of mediocrity. Look at the B10 for instance. Yeah they have a lot of great programs, but they have a lot of crap too.

[MU_Iceman]

Iceman...sorry.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/conference

The problem with a lot of conferences is that, while they have attracted some top notch programs, they have also created a lot of mediocrity. Look at the B10 for instance. Yeah they have a lot of great programs, but they have a lot of crap too.

Yes, I don't disagree. it just pisses me off what greed has done to hurt MU. The thing with the B10 is this...as much as I don't like them as a conference, at least they have gotten back to the point where at least ONE of their teams could legitimately win a national championship(Michigan State). The BE doesn't have that(Nova has no shot). Nor will they ever, unless it's MU. The problem I have Sultan is I really did expect MU to just roll in this conference, and honestly, I think i was far from alone in that thinking. Because honestly, there is no reason, they shouldn't be. That's what concerns me...all it takes is one down year and everything you have built up can be destroyed and your reputation is shot in recruiting, national perception etc. The fact that they are sucking so bad in such a weak conference just makes it worse. How can anyone take MU seriously if they can't even win in a crap conference??

Your link further accentuates my point...the fact that MU went from the best BB conference ever assembled with 5-6 legitimate National title contenders every year to one that in a REALLY good year MIGHT get as high as 2nd in conference RPI and still not have a legitimate national title contender, really tells you how far they have fallen. I find that quite sad. I can't even find the enthusiasm anymore to attend every game like I used to(and I live an hour away). A lot of that has to do with the fact they are terrible this year, but moreso than anything, I can't bring myself to get excited to see them play Butler and Xavier as opposed to Syracuse and Louisville. I didn't watch one second of the game yesterday, and I think the last time I missed even a second of a game on TV was probably when I was 10 or 11.

[TheSultan]

Yes, I don't disagree. it just pisses me off what greed has done to hurt MU. The thing with the B10 is this...as much as I don't like them as a conference, at least they have gotten back to the point where at least ONE of their teams could legitimately win a national championship(Michigan State). The BE doesn't have that(Nova has no shot). Nor will they ever, unless it's MU. The problem I have Sultan is I really did expect MU to just roll in this conference, and honestly, I think i was far from alone in that thinking. Because honestly, there is no reason, they shouldn't be. That's what concerns me...all it takes is one down year and everything you have built up can be destroyed and your reputation is shot in recruiting, national perception etc. The fact that they are sucking so bad in such a weak conference just makes it worse. How can anyone take MU seriously if they can't even win in a crap conference??

Your link further accentuates my point...the fact that MU went from the best BB conference ever assembled with 5-6 legitimate National title contenders every year to one that in a REALLY good year MIGHT get as high as 2nd in conference RPI and still not have a legitimate national title contender, really tells you how far they have fallen. I find that quite sad. I can't even find the enthusiasm anymore to attend every game like I used to(and I live an hour away). A lot of that has to do with the fact they are terrible this year, but moreso than anything, I can't bring myself to get excited to see them play Butler and Xavier as opposed to Syracuse and Louisville. I didn't watch one second of the game yesterday, and I think the last time I missed even a second of a game on TV was probably when I was 10 or 11.


OK, on the first point I completely understand. The quality of a conference is oftentimes skewed to the performance of its better teams. For instance, the ACC is going to look good because of Syracuse and Duke, no matter how poorly Virginia Tech and Georgia Tech perform.

On the second point, you are just going to have to let it go. Marquette is in the best possible conference they could realistically be a part of - the best non-football conference in college basketball. Is it the old BE? No. But those days are gone and not going to return.

[Markedman]

5-6 National title contenders every year? Now your just being silly......

2 or 3 I can give you....in some years maybe 3 or 4 but 5-6 every year?

Who were the legitimate NCAA title contenders last year? Louisville....Syracuse ......MU? nobody thought MU had a chance to win all....Georgetown lost in the first round....

Their is no conference now or in the past that has had or will have 5 or 6 NC contenders every year.

Our conference this year in what is likely a down year is the 4th best according to Pomeroy and Sagarin. Very close to #3.

Now if you are mad that the old Big East was #1 or 2 every year....ok....I can buy that.....we aren't that anymore...but we are no more midmajor then the SEC or the Pac 10.

I agree in order to get respect from the media we are going to have to get teams into the final 4 and eventually win a NC.....may not happen this year but a few years ago the Big 10 didn't have even one team make the sweet 16.....this stuff goes in cycles.

You make the best of what you have....crying about it won't change anything....

[MU/Panther]

I hate how people label conferences.

[TedBaxter]

Marquette is in the best conference it can be in and is with other schools it should be with. I can't say that any clearer and that's why I hope other conference schools can make it to the NCAA, even if MU doesn't make it.

[MU/Panther]

Marquette is in the best conference it can be in and is with other schools it should be with. I can't say that any clearer and that's why I hope other conference schools can make it to the NCAA, even if MU doesn't make it.
That's why it was sweet having a struggling G'town team beat Michigan State.

[MU_Iceman]

That's why it was sweet having a struggling G'town team beat Michigan State.

I hated that. I want that to be MU. I still don't get why teams root for the other teams in a conference your team plays in to be good?? You should want YOUR team to be the best, year in, year out, and screw everyone else. I take the reverse opinion of most. many think the better the conference, the more it helps MU. I vehemently disagree. Why do you want any of these schools to be good enough they could possibly take recruits from MU, get more notoriety than MU?? Get more national accolades than MU. I don't like MU being an afterthought, and that's exactly what they are right now in a weak conference. That's really sad. I don't want Georgetown to be good, I don't want Nova to be good, I don't want Providence to be better...all that does is give MU more competition. I said it once, I will say it again, I want MU to be the Memphis of this conference. Memphis was always ranked, always had strong recruiting classes(say what you want about how they got them), always made the NCAAs, and that was with the rest of their conference being weak. If MU has to be stuck in this crap hole conference, then the LEAST they should/can do is roll through it on a regular basis. The fact that they can't/may not even finish in the top HALF, let alone be the top 1 or 2 teams in this conference that gets all of you excited, sure as hell doesn't say much for MU does it?? And it sure as hell doesn't do a thing for their national perception(people see them as frauds or just another school that had a nice little run) does it??

And honestly, I'm not sure what it says for all of you that actually LIKE them being in this conference. Settle for less than the best and this is what you get. I personally had/have higher aspirations for MU than to be stuck in this conference. Everyone says "they are where they should be, and with schools they should be with". That's just accepting MU being small time. I don't think like that. I want more/I want them at the highest level possible. This conference is NOT that, football or not...MU should aim higher.

[TheSultan]

And honestly, I'm not sure what it says for all of you that actually LIKE them being in this conference. Settle for less than the best and this is what you get. I personally had/have higher aspirations for MU than to be stuck in this conference. Everyone says "they are where they should be, and with schools they should be with". That's just accepting MU being small time. I don't think like that. I want more/I want them at the highest level possible. This conference is NOT that, football or not...MU should aim higher.


<sigh>

Iceman, I just don't know what to tell you. I would like to eight figures tax free dropped into my checking account tomorrow, but that's not going to happen either. So I can't just waste my time worrying about it.

Would I like Marquette to be a basketball only member in the ACC? Yes. Is it going to happen. Likely not. So why can't I be satisfied with Marquette doing the best it possibly can within the parameters in which it operates?

[MU_Iceman]

<sigh>

Iceman, I just don't know what to tell you. I would like to eight figures tax free dropped into my checking account tomorrow, but that's not going to happen either. So I can't just waste my time worrying about it.

Would I like Marquette to be a basketball only member in the ACC? Yes. Is it going to happen. Likely not. So why can't I be satisfied with Marquette doing the best it possibly can within the parameters in which it operates?

Your last statement would be acceptable IF IF they were performing as they should be in this conference. They're not, so it makes it even worse. And how do any of us know that this ONE bad year might not kill everything they have built up?? It's a slippery slope they are on right now imo. They have only themselves to blame.

[TheSultan]

Your last statement would be acceptable IF IF they were performing as they should be in this conference. They're not, so it makes it even worse. And how do any of us know that this ONE bad year might not kill everything they have built up?? It's a slippery slope they are on right now imo. They have only themselves to blame.


Because that's not usually how it works. Pretty much every programs goes through years like this.

[MU_Iceman]

Because that's not usually how it works. Pretty much every programs goes through years like this.

So because others do, it's okay that MU does?? If your friends all run out in front of cars, should you do it too?? When's the last time Wisconsin was down??

[Markedman]

Your logic is breathtaking......


So because others do, it's okay that MU does?? If your friends all run out in front of cars, should you do it too?? When's the last time Wisconsin was down??

[TheSultan]

So because others do, it's okay that MU does?? If your friends all run out in front of cars, should you do it too?? When's the last time Wisconsin was down??


Your statement makes no sense. My point is that other programs have had down years without killing "everything that they have built up." Why would this year do this for Marquette?

[MUBasketball]

So because others do, it's okay that MU does?? If your friends all run out in front of cars, should you do it too?? When's the last time Wisconsin was down??

My God you are unbearable. Get a clue.

[Markedman]

How about the 2 years MU had after the final 4? Still somehow managed to recruit Wes, Jerel, and DJ and start the latest run.......

[MU_Iceman]

My God you are unbearable. Get a clue.

F you...Every damn time you come here it's to rip me. I'm so tired of your sh*t. I don't know who the hell you think you are, but i sure as hell know you don't know who I am. I've forgotten more basketball than you will ever know son.

[MU_Iceman]

How about the 2 years MU had after the final 4? Still somehow managed to recruit Wes, Jerel, and DJ and start the latest run......


That was also when they were in the best basketball conference in the country. They can't even win in this souped up version of CUSA. You don't think recruits notice that stuff??

[TheSultan]

That was also when they were in the best basketball conference in the country. They can't even win in this souped up version of CUSA. You don't think recruits notice that stuff??


But you are the one that actually wants us to be in a worse conference by not wanting other BE teams to succeed.

[kneelb4zerg]

That was also when they were in the best basketball conference in the country. They can't even win in this souped up version of CUSA. You don't think recruits notice that stuff??

Next year we will have at least nine underclass men. We don't even have that many available scholarships after that. As usual, you are blowing things way out of proportion.

[MU_Iceman]

But you are the one that actually wants us to be in a worse conference by not wanting other BE teams to succeed.


No...Since MU is stuck in this crap conference I want them to do what they SHOULD do and that's to blow through it. Not finish in the bottom half and get blown out by teams like St. John's. That's what I want. I love how all of you just blow this season off as "it happens". Okay, when's the last time it happened to MU?? When's the last time it happened to Louisville?? When's the last time it happened to UW for cripes sakes. When's the last time it happened to Gonzaga?? or Kansas...should I keep going??

It would be one thing if everyone knew this would be a down year...that happens. But for a team to fall so far below expectations like this one has?? We maybe have ot accept it, but I sure as hell don't like it, and some of you seem to be accepting of it, and okay with it. You should be pissed off, is what you should be.

[MU_Iceman]

Next year we will have at least nine underclass men. We don't even have that many available scholarships after that. As usual, you are blowing things way out of proportion.


Right, so logically they shouldn't be good next year either, but THAT would have been understandable. No one would have expected them to be that good(myself included), but this year?? So that would be likely two straight years without making the NCAAs, if that isn't troublesome to all of you, I don't know what is?? Or have you all quickly forgotten where MU was just a year ago...or the year prior, or the year prior or...you get my point. Once is an accident...twice is a mistake..three times a trend.

[TheSultan]

No...Since MU is stuck in this crap conference I want them to do what they SHOULD do and that's to blow through it. Not finish in the bottom half and get blown out by teams like St. John's. That's what I want. I


No? You just said up above that you didn't want Georgetown to beat MSU. You don't want Villanova to succeed. Don't you understand that you should want Marquette to finish win a conference where every other conference team wins every single non-conference game? Seriously, stop complaining about a "crap conference" when what you seemingly want is every other conference members to fail. That's what creates a "crap conference."

You come off as just a random angry dude. No logic whatsoever.

[MU_Iceman]

No? You just said up above that you didn't want Georgetown to beat MSU. You don't want Villanova to succeed. Don't you understand that you should want Marquette to finish win a conference where every other conference team wins every single non-conference game? Seriously, stop complaining about a "crap conference" when what you seemingly want is every other conference members to fail. That's what creates a "crap conference."

You come off as just a random angry dude. No logic whatsoever.

It's a crap conference regardless of how these teams do in the non conference. That's not going to change. Again, since it is a crap conference, I'd be fine with it, IF MU would be doing what they are supposed to be doing. The fact that teams that were supposed to finish below MU this year(and that would be 9 of them), are all for the most part doing what MU is supposed to be doing only makes MU look worse. The ONLY solace I took in their move to this new conference was that i figured conference championships(like Memphis) would be a yearly occurrence. And you hear no one talk about how tough the BE is. Why?? Honestly a lot of that probably has to do with the conference's predicted champion(consensus), is struggling so bad. That doesn't at all help their perception. Especially in year one. MU was supposed to carry the torch. And they haven't struggled because the other teams have just all been so good, they have struggled because they have just been awful. Period.

[TheSultan]

It's a crap conference regardless of how these teams do in the non conference. That's not going to change.


That is absolutely false. If other teams beat top ranked teams...make final fours...win championships. That's what makes good conferences. What do you think made the BE that Marquette joined? Georgetown...Villanova...St. Johns...

[MU_Iceman]

Let's put it this way...I LOVED college BB, I lived for it...until all this conference switching and the effect it had on MU ruined it for me. You are talking about a guy that hasn't missed a second of MU hoops in probably 25 years or more. I have been a season ticket holder for 10 years, and I have not gone to more games this year than I missed in the previous nine years(which was one...weather related). I planned my schedules/life around MU games, not the other way around. I'd eat it, breathe it and sleep it. Big Mondays?? I'd always watch that...Georgetown vs. Cuse, UCONN vs. Pitt, hell yeah!! I have watched very few minutes of other BE games this year. Not too mention have shut off MU games early and even missed Saturday's game entirely. The desire is gone...yes, it has to do with their struggles, but to be honest, a good majority of it is...I just can't get excited about watching Creighton vs. Xavier and wrapping my head around the fact those are the programs MU is now associated with. It's ruined college BB for me. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way...I will bet ANYTHING MU's attendance has taken a significant drop this year from where it has been. A lot of that is the opponents they now play. That's just reality.

[MU_Iceman]

That is absolutely false. If other teams beat top ranked teams...make final fours...win championships. That's what makes good conferences. What do you think made the BE that Marquette joined? Georgetown...Villanova...St. Johns...


I absolutely agree and that's what I have been saying...but if you honestly think any of the schools in the current BE will ever be a legitimate national Title contender, at least in the forseeable future, I want some of what you're smoking. They'll have teams ranked highly sometimes, and they will win some big games in the non conference, but to be a legitimate National title contender, or too have one most years like the old BE did, or like the ACC does, or the BigXII, or Big ten?? Just not realistic. Sustained success more than anything is what makes a good conference. The old BE had that amongst it's core group of teams(and yes that included MU). There was always National title contenders amongst them every year. This BE?? Maybe even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile, but for them to sustain it?? Not a chance in hell.

[Markedman]

If the conference is so crappy then why do 5 of the 10 schools have top 25 recruiting classes for next year? I mean good players don't want to play in crappy conferences right? http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Basketball/CompositeTeamRankings

[warriorfan4life]

<sigh>

Iceman, I just don't know what to tell you. I would like to eight figures tax free dropped into my checking account tomorrow, but that's not going to happen either. So I can't just waste my time worrying about it.

Would I like Marquette to be a basketball only member in the ACC? Yes. Is it going to happen. Likely not. So why can't I be satisfied with Marquette doing the best it possibly can within the parameters in which it operates?

I have always been Mr. Big East, but I honestly prefer this league to the ACC. The ACC will likely be better most years, though their top programs all have coaches right near the end of their lines (I'd rate them equal this year). Meanwhile, our top four programs (MU, Nova, G-Town, X) all have coaches who are in their 40's and should be at their fellow schools for a long time. Also, I think we are competing on equal and fair ground against our fellow league mates (and that would not be true with many ACC programs and their shall we say "interesting" recruiting methods). This will consistently be a top 5 league, often a top 3-4 league, and it is where Marquette belongs. Also, I will pull the alum card here in that I love being aligned with this group of schools as an alum. This version of the Big East is Marquette's true calling for both athletic and academic alignment.

[MU_Iceman]

If the conference is so crappy then why do 5 of the 10 schools have top 25 recruiting classes for next year? I mean good players don't want to play in crappy conferences right? http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Basketball/CompositeTeamRankings


Use all this crap to back up your claims that you want. I want you to tell me how many legitimate title contenders the Big East currently has, or will have in the future?? Likely none, unless MU gets their crap together. THAT'S what makes a conference.

Let's go through the "power" conferences shall we?? I'm sure I will miss some, but just off the top of my head....legitimate title contenders:

ACC-Syracuse, Duke
BXII-Kansas, Oklahoma State
B10- Michigan St, Michigan
SEC-Florida, Kentucky


I mean the 4 power conferences have probably at least two legitimate national Title contenders, in some cases probably 1-2 more. The Big East has....ZERO. It will always be like this.

[kneelb4zerg]

Brew City Ball Stages of Grief (Kubler-Ross Model) that MU is not going to make the tournament, user status:

Denial

Anger: MU_Iceman

Bargaining:

Depression:

Acceptance: everybody else

[GOMU1104]

Iceman has gone on some benders in the past, but this one...wow.

Your logic is circular. Your clouded sense of reality allows you to just dismiss facts as "crap."

Take a step back. Do something else for awhile.

On topic...I have a degree from GU and have friends in the program/athletic department. I hope Georgetown makes the tourney. I hope Ice gets mad about it, too.

[mutpm]

Use all this crap to back up your claims that you want. I want you to tell me how many legitimate title contenders the Big East currently has, or will have in the future?? Likely none, unless MU gets their crap together. THAT'S what makes a conference.

Let's go through the "power" conferences shall we?? I'm sure I will miss some, but just off the top of my head....legitimate title contenders:

ACC-Syracuse, Duke
BXII-Kansas, Oklahoma State
B10- Michigan St, Michigan
SEC-Florida, Kentucky


I mean the 4 power conferences have probably at least two legitimate national Title contenders, in some cases probably 1-2 more. The Big East as....ZERO. It will always be like this.

If Oklahoma St. is a legitimate contender, Villanova and Creighton certainly are. Creighton is 4 and Villanova is 10 in the Pomeroy ratings. You can dispute how those rankings are calculated, but I think anyone in his top 10 should be considered a contender.

People fall into this perception vs. reality problem. Georgetown and MU were picked at the top and since they aren't living up to expectations, the conference must suck. That's not the case here. People completely missed the boat on Villanova (like they have on MU the past couple of seasons) and Creighton has been the beneficiary of MU and Georgetown not living up to expectations.

[MUMac]

Your logic is breathtaking......

That is a much more polite word than I am certain most everyone else was thinking.

[MUMac]

F you...Every damn time you come here it's to rip me. I'm so tired of your sh*t. I don't know who the hell you think you are, but i sure as hell know you don't know who I am. I've forgotten more basketball than you will ever know son.

It looks like you have forgotten most of it ... :D

[TheSultan]

Let's put it this way...I LOVED college BB, I lived for it...until all this conference switching and the effect it had on MU ruined it for me. You are talking about a guy that hasn't missed a second of MU hoops in probably 25 years or more. I have been a season ticket holder for 10 years, and I have not gone to more games this year than I missed in the previous nine years(which was one...weather related). I planned my schedules/life around MU games, not the other way around. I'd eat it, breathe it and sleep it. Big Mondays?? I'd always watch that...Georgetown vs. Cuse, UCONN vs. Pitt, hell yeah!! I have watched very few minutes of other BE games this year. Not too mention have shut off MU games early and even missed Saturday's game entirely. The desire is gone...yes, it has to do with their struggles, but to be honest, a good majority of it is...I just can't get excited about watching Creighton vs. Xavier and wrapping my head around the fact those are the programs MU is now associated with. It's ruined college BB for me. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way...I will bet ANYTHING MU's attendance has taken a significant drop this year from where it has been. A lot of that is the opponents they now play. That's just reality.


Well the good news is that it has freed up some time on your schedule. Use it well.

[TheSultan]

I absolutely agree and that's what I have been saying...but if you honestly think any of the schools in the current BE will ever be a legitimate national Title contender, at least in the forseeable future, I want some of what you're smoking. They'll have teams ranked highly sometimes, and they will win some big games in the non conference, but to be a legitimate National title contender, or too have one most years like the old BE did, or like the ACC does, or the BigXII, or Big ten?? Just not realistic. Sustained success more than anything is what makes a good conference. The old BE had that amongst it's core group of teams(and yes that included MU). There was always National title contenders amongst them every year. This BE?? Maybe even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile, but for them to sustain it?? Not a chance in hell.


But you said earlier in this thread that you don't want other BE members to have success.

So which is it? Do you want Georgetown, Villanova, et al to succeed so that the BE becomes a better conference? Or do you want them to fail?

Or would you just rather complain? <ding ding ding>

[GOMU1104]

Brew City Ball Stages of Grief (Kubler-Ross Model) that MU is not going to make the tournament, user status:

Denial

Anger: MU_Iceman

Bargaining:

Depression:

Acceptance: everybody else

Wait, we can bargain? I have yet to earmark my first born for anything good...

[MUBasketball]

F you...Every damn time you come here it's to rip me. I'm so tired of your sh*t. I don't know who the hell you think you are, but i sure as hell know you don't know who I am. I've forgotten more basketball than you will ever know son.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Ooooooook, sure. I've never seen you at any of the multiple coaching clinics I've been to. Maybe next time?

Listen, you over-react and I can't stand it. You have no perspective. IF I'm bored enough one of these days, I will put together a list of all the programs that have multiple years of success, followed by a dip for a year or two, and then right back to their winning ways. I'll list the actual win and RPI totals so you can see black and white. It happens almost everywhere. It's virtually impossible to maintain a high level of success year after year after year without slipping. Yet, despite the fact that you acknowledge that it happens, you still find it unacceptable.

I find it really funny that you reference Wisconsin as a team that never slips. Now, I agree that their success under Bo has been consistent and impressive. However, for a guy who loaths losing at home and finds it completely unacceptable, I find it odd that you are clamoring for MU to have UW's success despite the fact they are on a current 3 game home losing streak. If MU did that, I can only imagine how much b*tching you would be doing on this board.

[MU_Iceman]

Brew City Ball Stages of Grief (Kubler-Ross Model) that MU is not going to make the tournament, user status:

Denial

Anger: MU_Iceman

Bargaining:

Depression:

Acceptance: everybody else


I'd say that speaks volumes to were most of you are as fans...you accept mediocrity!!! Do your bosses accept mediocrity from you?? Or for those of you that are business owners...do you accept mediocrity from your employees?? I certainly hope not!!

[TheSultan]

I'd say that speaks volumes to were most of you are as fans...you accept mediocrity!!! Do your bosses accept mediocrity from you?? Or for those of you that are business owners...do you accept mediocrity from your employees?? I certainly hope not!!


Of course, I have more control over my employees than I do over Marquette basketball.

How exactly are you "not accepting mediocrity" outside of ranting and raving on a message board? Are you withholding donations? Cancelling your season tickets? Writing letters to Father Wild?

[kneelb4zerg]

I'd say that speaks volumes to were most of you are as fans...you accept mediocrity!!! Do your bosses accept mediocrity from you?? Or for those of you that are business owners...do you accept mediocrity from your employees?? I certainly hope not!!

Dude it was a joke. Lighten up.

I try hard to "accept" things I have no control over. Try it!

[MU_Iceman]

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Ooooooook, sure. I've never seen you at any of the multiple coaching clinics I've been to. Maybe next time?

Listen, you over-react and I can't stand it. You have no perspective. IF I'm bored enough one of these days, I will put together a list of all the programs that have multiple years of success, followed by a dip for a year or two, and then right back to their winning ways. I'll list the actual win and RPI totals so you can see black and white. It happens almost everywhere. It's virtually impossible to maintain a high level of success year after year after year without slipping. Yet, despite the fact that you acknowledge that it happens, you still find it unacceptable.

I find it really funny that you reference Wisconsin as a team that never slips. Now, I agree that their success under Bo has been consistent and impressive. However, for a guy who loaths losing at home and finds it completely unacceptable, I find it odd that you are clamoring for MU to have UW's success despite the fact they are on a current 3 game home losing streak. If MU did that, I can only imagine how much b*tching you would be doing on this board.

Ohhhhh Coaching clinics?? Impressive!! That doesn't make you a worthwhile poster. maybe you should take some clinics in message board etiquette?? What you can over reaction...I call passion. So excuse me for caring!! I NEVER once said i clamor for MU to be like UW(do you have reading comprehension problems?) I simply used them as an example of a team(along with others), that haven't slipped in last # of years. Because someone made the point that it happens with every program?? Does it?? I listed some it hasn't happened to anytime lately.

Look, i'm not naive enough to think that MU was going to continue to make the tourney year after year after year. But, let me spell this out for ALL of you...this was NOT the year that was expected to happen. Not at all, and I am NOT the only one that is totally shocked by how this season has unfolded. There is simply too much talent on this team for them to be THIS bad. The talent is good enough in some of the guys that it SHOULD be covering the weaknesses of the others. It's not, and i'm baffled as to why. I'm incredibly frustrated. This season was like getting hit by a train...you had no idea it was coming. Next year would be much more understandable. I could also wrap my head around it if they were EXPECTED to struggle...but they simply weren't...find me ONE national pundit that had them anywhere lower than 1st or 2nd?? You won't do it.

What I also find a bit perplexing is how all of you are so accepting of it. Yes, I HAVE to accept it, I don't have a choice. None of us do. But that doesn't mean we can't be angry or upset about it, and not like that we have to accept it. I have to pay taxes every year to...I have to accept it, but it doesn't mean I like it...not one damn bit. I know that admitting you are pissed off about it or angry about it, means you MIGHT just give me some ammunition, but what gives me the ammo is how so many of you are just "eh, it happens". Why?? Where's the passion?? i know you all have it...demonstrate it sometimes. It's okay to get angry, it's okay to be pissed off.

[TheSultan]

Because it's just sports Iceman. I can't simply summon up the passion to continuously write paragraph after paragraph about how angry and frustrated I am about Marquette basketball.

(And why are they performing below expectations? Because their talent level was overrated, and too inconsistent.)

[Markedman]

I am disappointed as pretty much everybody is on this board…..angry? Not even a little bit….who am I suppose to be angry at? The players who I have rooted for in good times and in bad? Buzz? Who has been nothing but outstanding in his tenure at MU? God? Larry Williams?

I don’t like paying taxes either but I don’t stomp my feet and throw a fit when I write out the check……

Instead of asking us why we aren’t as angry as you are maybe you should ask yourself a different question?

Do you somehow think if we all just got as pissed off and angry as you everything would be ok? Things would just turn around if we only cared just a little bit more?

The talent on this team is not as good as you think it is…….Predictions are guesses……clearly MU should not have been picked as high as they were with the guard group we have. Duane being hurt and McKay leaving also were factors nobody counted on.

[MU_Iceman]

I am disappointed as pretty much everybody is on this board…..angry? Not even a little bit….who am I suppose to be angry at? The players who I have rooted for in good times and in bad? Buzz? Who has been nothing but outstanding in his tenure at MU? God? Larry Williams?

I don’t like paying taxes either but I don’t stomp my feet and throw a fit when I write out the check……

Instead of asking us why we aren’t as angry as you are maybe you should ask yourself a different question?

Do you somehow think if we all just got as pissed off and angry as you everything would be ok? Things would just turn around if we only cared just a little bit more?

The talent on this team is not as good as you think it is…….Predictions are guesses……clearly MU should not have been picked as high as they were with the guard group we have. Duane being hurt and McKay leaving also were factors nobody counted on.

Then quite frankly markedman, NONE of us can judge talent, or we all over rated this group. because quite honestly, there isn't one single poster here(or probably on any of the MU boards), that can honestly say they didn't think this team wouldn't make the NCAA's(comfortably), let alone be THIS bad. They can say it now, cuz it's easy to, but NO WAY any of us thought this is what would happen. I don't ask this to be demeaning one single bit, but since I haven't followed it as closely as I typically do, is there another team in the country this year that has fallen this far below expectations than MU?? Now keep in mind...EVERY National pundit everywhere thought MU would win the BE, and NOT a single one thought they'd not make the NCAA tourney. I mean quite honestly, this season is startling when you take those factors into account. Now, if no one else has fallen this far(without major injuries), is it safe to say BASED ON EXPECTATIONS ONLY, MU would be the most disappointing team in the country?? If that's the case, how can someone that's passionate about something(even if it is basketball), not be a bit upset about that?? You can't be passionate and not show SOME emotion towards whatever it is you are passionate about. It's impossible.

[mutpm]

Ohhhhh Coaching clinics?? Impressive!! That doesn't make you a worthwhile poster. maybe you should take some clinics in message board etiquette?? What you can over reaction...I call passion. So excuse me for caring!! I NEVER once said i clamor for MU to be like UW(do you have reading comprehension problems?) I simply used them as an example of a team(along with others), that haven't slipped in last # of years. Because someone made the point that it happens with every program?? Does it?? I listed some it hasn't happened to anytime lately.

Look, i'm not naive enough to think that MU was going to continue to make the tourney year after year after year. But, let me spell this out for ALL of you...this was NOT the year that was expected to happen. Not at all, and I am NOT the only one that is totally shocked by how this season has unfolded. There is simply too much talent on this team for them to be THIS bad. The talent is good enough in some of the guys that it SHOULD be covering the weaknesses of the others. It's not, and i'm baffled as to why. I'm incredibly frustrated. This season was like getting hit by a train...you had no idea it was coming. Next year would be much more understandable. I could also wrap my head around it if they were EXPECTED to struggle...but they simply weren't...find me ONE national pundit that had them anywhere lower than 1st or 2nd?? You won't do it.

What I also find a bit perplexing is how all of you are so accepting of it. Yes, I HAVE to accept it, I don't have a choice. None of us do. But that doesn't mean we can't be angry or upset about it, and not like that we have to accept it. I have to pay taxes every year to...I have to accept it, but it doesn't mean I like it...not one damn bit. I know that admitting you are pissed off about it or angry about it, means you MIGHT just give me some ammunition, but what gives me the ammo is how so many of you are just "eh, it happens". Why?? Where's the passion?? i know you all have it...demonstrate it sometimes. It's okay to get angry, it's okay to be pissed off.

Coming from the person who admits he has skipped more home games this year than the previous 9 combined and also didn't watch a game on TV.

I didn't expect the team to struggle. It's certainly disappointing, but that's where it ends for most of us. I'll still be there tomorrow night cheering them on, just as I have since the early 80's when I started following the team. I will support this team whether they live up to expectations or not.

[MU_Iceman]

I am disappointed as pretty much everybody is on this board…..angry? Not even a little bit….who am I suppose to be angry at? The players who I have rooted for in good times and in bad? Buzz? Who has been nothing but outstanding in his tenure at MU? God? Larry Williams?

I don’t like paying taxes either but I don’t stomp my feet and throw a fit when I write out the check……

Instead of asking us why we aren’t as angry as you are maybe you should ask yourself a different question?

Do you somehow think if we all just got as pissed off and angry as you everything would be ok? Things would just turn around if we only cared just a little bit more?
The talent on this team is not as good as you think it is…….Predictions are guesses……clearly MU should not have been picked as high as they were with the guard group we have. Duane being hurt and McKay leaving also were factors nobody counted on.

Let's give it a shot!!! Nothing else has worked for this group, so it can't hurt to try can it?? You just never know...;)

[Markedman]

Without going into detail I guess the easiest answer I can give is…..I can suck up 1 or 2 bad years without getting angry……Buzz has earned at least that much faith from me……


Being a fan to me means you support the team through the good and the bad…we have had lots of both since I started following the team in the 70s……

Anybody can be a fan when things are going great…….this type of season is what separates the real fans from entitled whiners…..

I think we all bought the Kool aide…..”Buzz has done it before he will figure it out” “Jake is walk on…no problem Buzz will coach him up” “Derrick can’t shoot….don’t worry he will figure it out” “Todd has never been a consistent player on or off the court…..He will mature”….etc…..

For whatever reason it didn’t happen this year…….I can accept reality or I can choose to let it ruin my year…what should a rational adult choose?


Then quite frankly markedman, NONE of us can judge talent, or we all over rated this group. because quite honestly, there isn't one single poster here(or probably on any of the MU boards), that can honestly say they didn't think this team wouldn't make the NCAA's(comfortably), let alone be THIS bad. They can say it now, cuz it's easy to, but NO WAY any of us thought this is what would happen. I don't ask this to be demeaning one single bit, but since I haven't followed it as closely as I typically do, is there another team in the country this year that has fallen this far below expectations than MU?? Now keep in mind...EVERY National pundit everywhere thought MU would win the BE, and NOT a single one thought they'd not make the NCAA tourney. I mean quite honestly, this season is startling when you take those factors into account. Now, if no one else has fallen this far(without major injuries), is it safe to say BASED ON EXPECTATIONS ONLY, MU would be the most disappointing team in the country?? If that's the case, how can someone that's passionate about something(even if it is basketball), not be a bit upset about that?? You can't be passionate and not show SOME emotion towards whatever it is you are passionate about. It's impossible.

[MU_Iceman]

Coming from the person who admits he has skipped more home games this year than the previous 9 combined and also didn't watch a game on TV.

I didn't expect the team to struggle. It's certainly disappointing, but that's where it ends for most of us. I'll still be there tomorrow night cheering them on, just as I have since the early 80's when I started following the team. I will support this team whether they live up to expectations or not.

Please don't EVER question my passion...i want to keep supporting this team, I do, but it's incredibly hard. As many have said, it's not even a fun team to watch. I mean if they were losing, but were at least playing inspired, close basketball that'd be one thing. But they are getting run over by teams like St. John's. How the hell does that happen?? They are the ONLY team in the league that has lost to Butler @ Butler...even DePaul beat them at Butler. It's just been so shocking to me, it's really thrown me for a loop. I'm honestly not quite sure how to react to it all. Admittedly, all the conference switching and where MU is in regards to that has a lot(if not more) to do with it as well.

[TedBaxter]

Things like this year happen when people, including me, underestimate how much the loss of certain players would have. Couple that with a team that has some talent issues and a team that the coach can't get a good read on.

[MUfan12]

NONE of us can judge talent, or we all over rated this group. because quite honestly, there isn't one single poster here(or probably on any of the MU boards), that can honestly say they didn't think this team wouldn't make the NCAA's(comfortably).

I posted this before the Southern game- http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=40285.msg528194#msg528194

Looks like I'll be wrong about the 12-6 part, but had them pegged in non-con play. Once Duane got hurt, I figured this team would struggle to find any playmaking in the backcourt.

I'm not as frustrated by the record as much as how they got here. They've had so many lapses for several minutes at a time that are totally demoralizing. And even when they play well, they struggle to kill the game off. It's maddening at times.

[mutpm]

Please don't EVER question my passion...i want to keep supporting this team, I do, but it's incredibly hard. As many have said, it's not even a fun team to watch. I mean if they were losing, but were at least playing inspired, close basketball that'd be one thing. But they are getting run over by teams like St. John's. How the hell does that happen?? They are the ONLY team in the league that has lost to Butler @ Butler...even DePaul beat them at Butler. It's just been so shocking to me, it's really thrown me for a loop. I'm honestly not quite sure how to react to it all. Admittedly, all the conference switching and where MU is in regards to that has a lot(if not more) to do with it as well.

That's the difference, it's not hard for me to support the team. I've supported them through worse seasons than this. I'm disappointed by the play, but am still excited that I get to go to the BC tomorrow night and see them play.

How do they get run over by teams like St. Johns? The same way MU ran over UCONN on the opening night of the Big East. Do you realize MU played Thursday night, got on a plane to get into NYC late Thursday night, got in a practice on Friday, and then played first thing in the morning? When do you install the game plan? St. John's last played on Tuesday. That gave them 48 more hours to prepare. As we've seen, MU isn't consistent enough to just walk on the court and beat teams of similar talent.

[Markedman]

ST Johns has more talent then this years MU team.......I don't think it's even that close ...

[MUBasketball]

ST Johns has more talent then this years MU team.......I don't think it's even that close close....

It was mind boggling how much they have underachieved this year. They appear to be getting hot right now, so they can still be a tournament team. Stealing one at Creighton would have been huge.

Even if you're not that strong of a coach, at least instill discipline in your team. Lavin's guys just don't play together and with much fire. At least, they hadn't been until recently. I still don't have faith in them, but the talet is there, it will flow (anybody know that reference?)

[MUBasketball]

I'd say that speaks volumes to were most of you are as fans...you accept mediocrity!!! Do your bosses accept mediocrity from you?? Or for those of you that are business owners...do you accept mediocrity from your employees?? I certainly hope not!!

Accept mediocrity? Is this a mediocre program? Not the last time I checked. One of only three teams in the nation to reach a Sweet 16 the last three years. If this was the 10th straight year of hovering around .500 then OK.

So despite the fact that the struggles this year happen to everyone - even Hall of Fame coaches - we shouldn't accept it? What should we do, stand up and boo the players and the coach and demand that Buzz gets fired? Those are the vocal parasite sports fans who are clueless and likely didn't play sports and were picked last in backyard games. Similar to short guys who grow up and become assholes because they were picked on as a kid.

I assure you, with Buzz in charge this program will be just fine. Relax, cheer the boys on, and enjoy the ride.

[GOMU1104]

Please don't EVER question my passion...i want to keep supporting this team, I do, but it's incredibly hard. As many have said, it's not even a fun team to watch. I mean if they were losing, but were at least playing inspired, close basketball that'd be one thing. But they are getting run over by teams like St. John's. How the hell does that happen?? They are the ONLY team in the league that has lost to Butler @ Butler...even DePaul beat them at Butler. It's just been so shocking to me, it's really thrown me for a loop. I'm honestly not quite sure how to react to it all. Admittedly, all the conference switching and where MU is in regards to that has a lot(if not more) to do with it as well.

Typing rambling paragraphs and using all caps does not equate to passion.

Skipping games, in person and on TV, because the team is having a down year is a pretty damn good reason to question someone's passion. So yes, I am questioning your true passion. Sounds like you have a reserved spot on the bandwagon.

[MU_Iceman]

Typing rambling paragraphs and using all caps does not equate to passion.

Skipping games, in person and on TV, because the team is having a down year is a pretty damn good reason to question someone's passion. So yes, I am questioning your true passion. Sounds like you have a reserved spot on the bandwagon.


I love how people can feel free to question my passion because I miss ONE game on TV in well over 20 years(I was out car shopping) but I can't question theirs when they show NO emotion to go along with their supposed passion?? You can't have passion without emotion. It's impossible. I don't care if that passion is basketball, cars, whatever it is in life. Maybe none of you display it on message boards, but I sure as hell hope you all display at least some when watching them get dismantled by a mediocre SJU team, or losing at a terrible Butler team. One of the things I love so much about all of you is not only can i come here to talk MU hoops with you guys, but you are all VERY good as well at offering advice as to how a "rational" adult should act about a losing basketball season. It's like basketball and therapy all in one! Thanks guys! :D

[kneelb4zerg]

I love how people can feel free to question my passion because I miss ONE game on TV in well over 20 years(I was out car shopping) but I can't question theirs when they show NO emotion to go along with their supposed passion?? You can't have passion without emotion. It's impossible. I don't care if that passion is basketball, cars, whatever it is in life. Maybe none of you display it on message boards, but I sure as hell hope you all display at least some when watching them get dismantled by a mediocre SJU team, or losing at a terrible Butler team. One of the things I love so much about all of you is not only can i come here to talk MU hoops with you guys, but you are all VERY good as well at offering advice as to how a "rational" adult should act about a losing basketball season. It's like basketball and therapy all in one! Thanks guys! :D

Ice, you are the one who randomly attacks most if not all of the posters for not being good enough fans. Don't act put out when people push back against that.

[MU_Iceman]

Ice, you are the one who randomly attacks most if not all of the posters for not being good enough fans. Don't act put out when people push back against that.


Fair enough, but I think I have a defense, at least I SHOW my passion. Whether people agree with me being angry over this season is right or not, My passion is visible. I don't see ANY emotion from others here. Disappointment?? Yeah, they say they are, but it doesn't really show. I mean to each their own, I get that, but again, I don't understand how someone can be passionate about anything and not show any kind of emotion towards it?? That's what makes me question their passion. If your passionate, your emotional....they go hand and hand.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

If your passionate, your emotional....they go hand and hand.

Are Bill Belicheck, Tim Duncan, etc not passionate because they show little emotion?

[MU_Iceman]

Are Bill Belicheck, Tim Duncan, etc not passionate because they show little emotion?


They are directly involved in the game(play, Coach), it's pretty much a given they are passionate.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

If your passionate, your emotional....they go hand and hand.

Would you say the more emotion you show, the more passionate you are?

[MU_Iceman]

Would you say the more emotion you show, the more passionate you are?


Absofrickinglutely. No question about it.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Absofrickinglutely. No question about it.

Would you say Dick Strong shows a lot of emotion?

[Markedman]

I show alot of emotion when I am watching the game and I'm sure many of the posters here do.............not sure what that has to do with posting.

People will vent in game threads but even if I'm disappointed that we aren't better I won't bitch and moan at Buzz or the players.

I prefer to discuss my favorite team in as unbiased a fashion as I can.......I can love MU and still see the flaws and since I can't change those flaws I accept them...and root the team on anyway

[MUMac]

I show alot of emotion when I am watching the game and I'm sure many of the posters here do.............not sure what that has to do with posting.

People will vent in game threads but even if I'm disappointed that we aren't better I won't bitch and moan at Buzz or the players.

I prefer to discuss my favorite team in as unbiased a fashion as I can.......I can love MU and still see the flaws and since I can't change those flaws I accept them...and root the team on anyway

This describes me, as well. I don't see how venting and anger on a message board is passion and shows love of a team.

And when I thought ice could not be more bizarre, he proves me wrong.

[GOMU1104]

Absofrickinglutely. No question about it.

The loudest person in the room often is the most unstable and often has the most to lose.

The most successful people (in sports and in life) are those that stay on an even keel and keep their emotions balanced.

[MUBasketball]

The loudest person in the room often is the most unstable and often has the most to lose.

The most successful people (in sports and in life) are those that stay on an even keel and keep their emotions balanced.

Ding ding ding.

[MU_Iceman]

Perhaps before you all pile on someone, maybe you should think about that not everyone is the same. Maybe some of you have more in your lives than others do. More releases, more things to do, families, kids, wives to occupy your time. Maybe some of us are so emotional about a basketball team, because it's the one thing they have that they can really be passionate about. Maybe...just maybe you should all consider yourselves extremely lucky that you have the ability to put MU down your list in order of priorities. Be thankful you have what you have, because there are some that would love to trade places with you.

[Markedman]

Sports can never take the place of the things you mentioned Ice..................


Perhaps before you all pile on someone, maybe you should think about that not everyone is the same. Maybe some of you have more in your lives than others do. More releases, more things to do, families, kids, wives to occupy your time. Maybe some of us are so emotional about a basketball team, because it's the one thing they have that they can really be passionate about. Maybe...just maybe you should all consider yourselves extremely lucky that you have the ability to put MU down your list in order of priorities. Be thankful you have what you have, because there are some that would love to trade places with you.

[MU_Iceman]

Sports can never take the place of the things you mentioned Ice..................


Exactly my point marked...some of you are fortunate, you don't have to worry about that. I envy each and everyone of you that has that luxury.

[TheSultan]

Exactly my point marked...some of you are fortunate, you don't have to worry about that. I envy each and everyone of you that has that luxury.

I appreciate that Iceman, but then don't come down on people who don't seem to be as emotionally invested in Marquette basketball as you are.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Yep, Ice we can all appreciate your comment about being fortunate to have other outlets. That being said, your comment that showing more emotion means you have more passion is one of the more idiotic comments I've read in 5 years on the message boards (not trying to come off like a jerk, but it just is). I show a good amount of emotion, but that does not make me a more passionate fan than someone who doesn't show a ton of emotion.

Since you didnt answer my previous question I'll take it from here - I'd say Dick Strong, who doesn't show a ton of emotion, is still a pretty damn passionate person about the Marquette bball program, wouldnt you? Therefore, your simple statement of "if you show more emotion it means you have more passion" is just bs and quite frankly insulting to those passionate fans who aren't very emotional people.

[MU_Iceman]

Yep, Ice we can all appreciate your comment about being fortunate to have other outlets. That being said, your comment that showing more emotion means you have more passion is one of the more idiotic comments I've read in 5 years on the message boards (not trying to come off like a jerk, but it just is). I show a good amount of emotion, but that does not make me a more passionate fan than someone who doesn't show a ton of emotion.

Since you didnt answer my previous question I'll take it from here - I'd say Dick Strong, who doesn't show a ton of emotion, is still a pretty damn passionate person about the Marquette bball program, wouldnt you? Therefore, your simple statement of "if you show more emotion it means you have more passion" is just bs and quite frankly insulting to those passionate fans who aren't very emotional people.

My whole point was...you absolutely CANNOT be passionate about something, without being emotional about it either. I don't care what it is. If your not emotional about it, you're not passionate about it. Those two things are directly tied together. Some people just choose to show their emotions in a private manner rather than public(and that's perfectly fine). All I'm saying is...the people that claim this season hasn't bothered them(more than disappointed), have the luxury of channeling that frustration, anger etc to other avenues, and have distractions to not allow them to become AS emotional about it as some. Walk in my shoes, and I'm pretty sure ALL of you(or a good majority) of you would react the same way as I do, and be a bit more understanding why I am so emotional about it. It's easy to sit there and blast me for being so vocal and so bitter and angry on the other side of your computer...but again, I'd LOVE to have the outlets most of you. That's all there is to it.

[mutpm]

My whole point was...you absolutely CANNOT be passionate about something, without being emotional about it either. I don't care what it is. If your not emotional about it, you're not passionate about it. Those two things are directly tied together. Some people just choose to show their emotions in a private manner rather than public(and that's perfectly fine). All I'm saying is...the people that claim this season hasn't bothered them(more than disappointed), have the luxury of channeling that frustration, anger etc to other avenues, and have distractions to not allow them to become AS emotional about it as some. Walk in my shoes, and I'm pretty sure ALL of you(or a good majority) of you would react the same way as I do, and be a bit more understanding why I am so emotional about it. It's easy to sit there and blast me for being so vocal and so bitter and angry on the other side of your computer...but again, I'd LOVE to have the outlets most of you. That's all there is to it.

I absolutely disagree with this. Showing anger doesn't make you a better fan. It shows you don't know how to handle things.

You say you have nothing else as an outlet, yet you've missed games? Sounds like you had some other outlet during the time you claim is the most important thing in your life.

[MUMac]

My whole point was...you absolutely CANNOT be passionate about something, without being emotional about it either. I don't care what it is. If your not emotional about it, you're not passionate about it. Those two things are directly tied together. Some people just choose to show their emotions in a private manner rather than public(and that's perfectly fine). All I'm saying is...the people that claim this season hasn't bothered them(more than disappointed), have the luxury of channeling that frustration, anger etc to other avenues, and have distractions to not allow them to become AS emotional about it as some. Walk in my shoes, and I'm pretty sure ALL of you(or a good majority) of you would react the same way as I do, and be a bit more understanding why I am so emotional about it. It's easy to sit there and blast me for being so vocal and so bitter and angry on the other side of your computer...but again, I'd LOVE to have the outlets most of you. That's all there is to it.

The problem with this statement is that there are different ways to show emotion and people show their own emotion differently. You have been arguing if people do not show their emotion like you, they are not passionate. That is the point that people have been trying to make to you. Your emotion is venting. Others show it differently. That does not mean you are more passionate then they are. Because you get "bothered" more outwardly tells me nothing about your passion over mine or theirs.

Some handle their emotions better than others.

[Goose85]

MU is by far my favorite sports team. When MU loses I am upset like most fans with a vested interest. Often, after a loss, I'll avoid reading the sports page and avoid going to this site for a day or so, especially a tough loss as I don't need to be reminded of the loss by reading people venting.

Some people show more outwardly anger, others do not. I generally choose to avoid the message boards so as not to increase my irritation.

[MU_Iceman]

I absolutely disagree with this. Showing anger doesn't make you a better fan. It shows you don't know how to handle things.

You say you have nothing else as an outlet, yet you've missed games? Sounds like you had some other outlet during the time you claim is the most important thing in your life.


And you know my situation and why i may have missed those games douchenoggle?? Perhaps you should be a bit more careful before you speak. You know nothing about me, my life or why I missed those games. perhaps if you knew why I missed those games you'd be a bit more compassionate. It doesn't mean I have other outlets, it just means things prevented me from attending...it doesn't mean i didn't watch it on TV. But thanks for your concern.

[TheSultan]

And you know my situation and why i may have missed those games douchenoggle?? Perhaps you should be a bit more careful before you speak. You know nothing about me, my life or why I missed those games. perhaps if you knew why I missed those games you'd be a bit more compassionate.


Hold on....this is what you said earlier: "I can't even find the enthusiasm anymore to attend every game like I used to(and I live an hour away)."

So you said that you don't have the enthusiasm to attend games, and now you are calling mutpm a "douchenoggle" because he implies that this is the reason you aren't attending the games?

You continue to make no sense.

[kneelb4zerg]

MU is also my favorite sports team. I vent at the games. I yell and scream at the TV. I drink to celebrate and I drink to wallow. I get mad and lash out at others on message boards sometimes, but I'm always embarrassed when I do.

[MU_Iceman]

MU is also my favorite sports team. I vent at the games. I yell and scream at the TV. I drink to celebrate and I drink to wallow. I get mad and lash out at others on message boards sometimes, but I'm always embarrassed when I do.


Absolutely beautiful kneel!! I have a new found respect for you! Atta boy!

[mutpm]

Can we get a list of how we should act? I'll start the list from Kneel's post:
1. Vent at games
2. Yell and scream at the TV
3. Drink to celebrate
4. Drink to wallow
5. Lash out at others on the message board

[MU_Iceman]

Hold on....this is what you said earlier: "I can't even find the enthusiasm anymore to attend every game like I used to(and I live an hour away)."

So you said that you don't have the enthusiasm to attend games, and now you are calling mutpm a "douchenoggle" because he implies that this is the reason you aren't attending the games?

You continue to make no sense.


Here's a little hint for you, and then I'm done with you Sultan...I'm probably the most Private person in the entire world... NO ONE(not even the few close to me), know what I do, why I do it, where or when I do it.
I'm certainly not going to advertise why I missed those games to a bunch of anonymous people on a message board. Sometimes, I will craft things(posts), the way I do to be deceptive, and to keep myself and my life private. That's the way I operate. I have my reasons, and we'll leave it at that. When I get called out the way he did, I strike back. He knows NOTHING about me, so perhaps he shouldn't jump to conclusions. I don't care what i wrote or how I wrote it. Cut people some slack.

[TheSultan]

Here's a little hint for you, and then I'm done with you Sultan...I'm probably the most Private person in the entire world... NO ONE(not even the few close to me), know what I do, why I do it, where or when I do it.
I'm certainly not going to advertise why I missed those games to a bunch of anonymous people on a message board. Sometimes, I will craft things(posts), the way I do to be deceptive, and to keep myself and my life private. That's the way I operate. I have my reasons, and we'll leave it at that. When I get called out the way he did, I strike back. He knows NOTHING about me, so perhaps he shouldn't jump to conclusions. I don't care what i wrote or how I wrote it. Cut people some slack.


That's all fine and good...and I don't really care to be honest with you.

Just don't get all huffy when someone takes your deceptions as truth. You seem to want to give yourself license to say or do whatever you want, and in some ways that's always the case on a message board. Just don't be all bent out of shape when people don't really respect what you say then.

[kneelb4zerg]

Can we get a list of how we should act? I'll start the list from Kneel's post:
1. Vent at games
2. Yell and scream at the TV
3. Drink to celebrate
4. Drink to wallow
5. Lash out at others on the message board

Hey hey, I never said I was proud of this.

[MUBasketball]

And you know my situation and why i may have missed those games douchenoggle??

And you tell other people they need message board etiquette? This whole thread is pure comedy.

[MU_Iceman]

And you tell other people they need message board etiquette? This whole thread is pure comedy.

Shall we count the times you have called me an idiot or other names MUBasketball?? I didn't think so...Those who live in glass houses maybe??

In all my years on message boards, I have never felt the need to use the ignore function. I figure if I post something critical, I should allow others to criticize me(and boy do they ever). Well, you have just become my first...you are the most arrogant, condescending, cocky, know it all pri*ck I have ever seen infiltrate a message board(and that's saying something because there's guys out there like Erictheered). I for one am tired of your act. Your arrogance would fit beautifully with badger posters on their board(s). Congratulations...that's a great group to be in company with.

[MU_Iceman]

Hey hey, I never said I was proud of this.


You absolutely should be!!! And if you aren't proud of it, then I am proud of it for you! Even if I am one of your major "lash out" targets. :) I'm good with that!

[mutpm]

Hey hey, I never said I was proud of this.

I wasn't sure if showing remorse is the sign of a passionate fan. That may not be the right type of emotion. I'll let the passion commissioner rule on that.

[MUBasketball]

Shall we count the times you have called me an idiot or other names MUBasketball?? I didn't think so...Those who live in glass houses maybe??

Find one post where I've called someone an idiot.

[GOMU1104]

Here's a little hint for you, and then I'm done with you Sultan...I'm probably the most Private person in the entire world... NO ONE(not even the few close to me), know what I do, why I do it, where or when I do it.
I'm certainly not going to advertise why I missed those games to a bunch of anonymous people on a message board. Sometimes, I will craft things(posts), the way I do to be deceptive, and to keep myself and my life private. That's the way I operate. I have my reasons, and we'll leave it at that. When I get called out the way he did, I strike back. He knows NOTHING about me, so perhaps he shouldn't jump to conclusions. I don't care what i wrote or how I wrote it. Cut people some slack.

Wait...your the most private person in the entire world, yet you advocate emotional displays of passion?!?!? You ridicule those that don't display passion?

Dude. You need to take a break. You continue to talk yourself into circles.

[ge1974]

This board is going to hell in a hand basket with all the condescending attitudes.

[MU_Iceman]

Find one post where I've called someone an idiot.


In all my years on message boards, I have never felt the need to use the ignore function. I figure if I post something critical, I should allow others to criticize me(and boy do they ever). Well, you have just become my first...you are the most arrogant, condescending, cocky, know it all pri*ck I have ever seen infiltrate a message board(and that's saying something because there's guys out there like Erictheered). I for one am tired of your act. Your arrogance would fit beautifully with badger posters on their board(s). Congratulations...that's a great group to be in company with.

[Markedman]

Maybe IWB could lock this thread……..just a thought?

[MU_Iceman]

Maybe IWB could lock this thread……..just a thought?

No need....I'm done. I'll give you all what you want. You can have your "everything is seashells and balloons" attitudes and criticize me who doesn't share the same view. You're entitled to that. But i'm tired of people telling me how I should act about a basketball game/season. There is no right or wrong way. Everyone is different, didn't we at least establish that in this thread?? Yeah I wear my emotions on my sleeve for MU BB, always have, always will...I won't apologize for that. Just keep something in mind...for those of you criticizing me because I'm "so openly" emotional, well any time you clap, or cheer, or cuss, or pump your fist when you are at a game...you are displaying emotion. So to do that and then come here and claim you're not the type to be "openly" emotional is a little disingenuous.

Personally, I think you are all good guys even though I don't know any of you(even you MU basketball). I think we all share a common bond...being fanatical about MU basketball, and that's a good thing! It's been a tough season I think we all agree on that. Most of you handle that better than I do, I accept that and admit that, you are better people than I am for sure. It seems silly to be so emotionally vested in a basketball team/program the way I am, and i tell myself that all the time...yet I can't seem to change that.

I hope beyond hope for all of us, this team turns it around somehow some way and finds their way into the NCAAs. That would be quite the story. One I'm positive we'd all like to see be written.

I will say this in closing...I have more MU hats, T-shirts, jackets than I could ever possibly wear in a lifetime, and I know I have a VERY different way of expressing my passion for MU hoops, but believe me when I tell you...If i didn't love it as much as I do, or care about it as much as I do, I wouldn't get as angry as I do. That's just how I'm wired. If I can take to my grave that my passion for MU hoops was never in question by anyone(even if the ways I displayed it were), Then I'll forever be okay with that.

The one thing I single handedly tried to change amongst you all and in my personal life was to make the MU-UW rivalry more like the Kentucky-Louisville rivalry is today. I failed at that miserably. More than anything else I'd love to see it become that way, that's just a personal wish. I don't think it ever will be. But that's okay.

I hold no ill will towards any of you for any of your comments to me over the years..that's just part of being a fan. The more MU fans there are in this world/state, the better off we all will be. I hope you all enjoy the ride that is MU hoops. For the first time in many years it's been a bumpy one, but it won't be long and they will be right back to where we are all accustomed to them being. Go marquette!!


Peace

MU_Iceman

[ge1974]

This board is going to hell in a hand basket with all the condescending attitudes.

Just to be clear - I wasn't just referring to MU Iceman.

[MUMac]

This board is going to hell in a hand basket with all the condescending attitudes.

This is Brew City's Scoop for a day ...

[Halo]

Use all this crap to back up your claims that you want. I want you to tell me how many legitimate title contenders the Big East currently has, or will have in the future?? Likely none, unless MU gets their crap together. THAT'S what makes a conference.

Let's go through the "power" conferences shall we?? I'm sure I will miss some, but just off the top of my head....legitimate title contenders:

ACC-Syracuse, Duke
BXII-Kansas, Oklahoma State
B10- Michigan St, Michigan
SEC-Florida, Kentucky


I mean the 4 power conferences have probably at least two legitimate national Title contenders, in some cases probably 1-2 more. The Big East has....ZERO. It will always be like this.

You are leaving out UW. They have a chance with their offense.

[IWB]

Let's all reel it in guys. We all want another Sweet 16, we all want a Final Four, but it just doesn't look like its gonna happen. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world. Let's all chill out and teach the world to sing in perfect harmony.

Game night, new thread talking about what MU will need to do to beat Butler (http://www.brewcityball.com/forums/showthread.php?6249-MU-vs-Butler&p=54573#post54573).....let's keep it civil.....

[Gato78]

Let's all just smoke a cyber joint and chill out.