SJU Game Thread

[Nukem2]

Tough start here. SJU playing tough defense and getting open 3s...

[Markedman]

Infruriating that we leave the one guy who can really hurt you from 3 wide open 3 times in the first few minutes of the game....

We also look like we have no idea what to do against the press.....lots of bad shots already

St Johns is so athletic but will make mistakes if you just play smart

[MUAlphaBangura]

Terrible ref crew and terrible perimeter defense. Not a good combination so far.

[MayorBeluga]

Add terrible defense and terrible shooting to the mix. Not a good combo indeed.

[Markedman]

Wow.....this is so bad its hard to watch

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

This is ugly right now. Not doing enough to get the ball to the paint. Thomas just not doing anything on offense, Dawson not valuing possession, and awful defense on Harrison. Mayo picking up his regular road play. Frustrating stuff right now.

[MUMac]

Nice start to the game, up 8-2 and then outscored 23-5. This team is really frustrating to watch.

[RJax55]

Juan has zero confidence right now

[Markedman]

It is amazing that this St Johns team is in last place........not sue what the game plan was but I don't think it was taking bad shot after bad shot and giving up dunks and wide open 3's to their best shooter.....

[MUMac]

How is Dawson not valuing possession? Because he missed his shots? They were good shots to take, he missed them.

The awful D on Harrison is in large part Mayo. He is not a good off the ball defender.

It seems like Anderson hasn't made a layup since the ankle injury. A nice move to the hoop and he doesn't hit the iron.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Juan gets more iron on his threes than a smelting plant.

[GOMU1104]

Terrible ref crew and terrible perimeter defense. Not a good combination so far.

The officiating has nothing to do with this.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

How is Dawson not valuing possession? Because he missed his shots? They were good shots to take, he missed them.

No paint touch on the three, had plenty of time left on the shot clock. The layup was in too much traffic and rushed. Neither were very good shots. I love his potential, but the game doesn't seem to have slowed down for him yet.

It seems often like Dawson sometimes wants too much to be the offense rather than to initiate it. When he's hot like he was against GT that's great, but when he's not, guys like him and Burton can really hurt us.

[MUMac]

No paint touch on the three, had plenty of time left on the shot clock. The layup was in too much traffic and rushed. Neither were very good shots. I love his potential, but the game doesn't seem to have slowed down for him yet.

It seems often like Dawson sometimes wants too much to be the offense rather than to initiate it. When he's hot like he was against GT that's great, but when he's not, guys like him and Burton can really hurt us.

Disagree completely with your analysis. But if you are going to single out Dawson on valuing possession, what the hell is Mayo?

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

The officiating has nothing to do with this.

It doesn't, but it's still bad officiating. On both ends.

[Nukem2]

Disagree completely with your analysis. But if you are going to single out Dawson on valuing possession, what the hell is Mayo?
Yep, Dawson took good shots. Just did not drop.

[Markedman]

The whole offense is a mess...no ball movement.....trying to take it to the basket against the best shot blocker in the conference...no use of the ball fake....

[MUAlphaBangura]

The officiating has nothing to do with this.

Obviously not at this point Einstein. You can't tell me the first 5 minutes(when I made the comment) weren't filled with awful calls.

Point in case-- that last call on Todd! WTF!

[Markedman]

Jamil forcing things now and then our guys don't even know who is covering who on the other end.......7-29 from the field......

[MUMac]

How is that an offensive foul on Mayo? I agree that this crew has been horrible. That should have been an and 1

[Nukem2]

How is that an offensive foul on Mayo? I agree that this crew has been horrible. That should have been an and 1
Weird cal.....

[CaribouJim]

How is that an offensive foul on Mayo? I agree that this crew has been horrible. That should have been an and 1

Agreed - crap call.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Disagree completely with your analysis. But if you are going to single out Dawson on valuing possession, what the hell is Mayo?

I'm not happy with Mayo or Derrick either right now. Mayo is up to his usual road poor play and Derrick isn't doing enough to get the ball inside. We are playing exactly like the bad Marquette scouting report.

That last play was prototype bad MU. Too much time wasted, no effort to go inside, Mayo gives it away easy. Bad team performance so far. But Dawson, Mayo, and Derrick (for different reasons) are killing our offense.

Also...more of Gardner spending too much time at the top of the key.

[Markedman]

I think I've seen it all now....Derrick misses a free throw so badly that they get a fastbreak dunk on the other end......

This is about as poor as I've seen us play other then the Ohio state 2nd half....

[RJax55]

Frustrating how bad D Wilson is from the line. That miss on the one & one is as bad as a turnover.

[TheSultan]

I am not sure why Buzz would play for the last shot considering they can't get anything going in 35 seconds anyway.

Terrible half. Not a single net positive contribution from any player save Jake Thomas.

[Markedman]

I would throw Jamil into the discussion as well.....we can't have him be a complete non factor...not if we are going to win....the length, quickness and athleticsm of St Johns is just dominating the game


I'm not happy with Mayo or Derrick either right now. Mayo is up to his usual road poor play and Derrick isn't doing enough to get the ball inside. We are playing exactly like the bad Marquette scouting report.

That last play was prototype bad MU. Too much time wasted, no effort to go inside, Mayo gives it away easy. Bad team performance so far. But Dawson, Mayo, and Derrick (for different reasons) are killing our offense.

Also...more of Gardner spending too much time at the top of the key.

[MUMac]

I am not sure why Buzz would play for the last shot considering they can't get anything going in 35 seconds anyway.

Terrible half. Not a single net positive contribution from any player save Jake Thomas.

Burton played well, but called for a couple of cheap fouls. That hurt.

Thomas passed up 3's late in the shot clock a couple of times that resulted in wild shots (one by Gardner) to beat the shot clock. He did play well, but he needs to take those shots. One was off of a screen for him.

[MUMac]

I would throw Jamil into the discussion as well.....we can't have him be a complete non factor...not if we are going to win....the length, quickness and athleticsm of St Johns is just dominating the game

Agreed. Jamil has taken bad shots and has not contributed anything.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

What's with JJJ's defense - been beaten like a drum off the dribble. Also, Mayo may be the most frustrating player I can remember at Marquette - I love the kid for one minute and the very next minute I wonder why he's getting any minutes. His defense and offense unfortunately have made me feel the latter in this game. But if history tells us anything, he'll get on a bit of a mini-streak in the 2nd half so you cant completely go away from him, right?

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Watch the Dawson three attempt again. Dawson was covered close by a bigger defender, 20 seconds on the shot clock, 10 seconds since a PT and total loss of rhythm. Not a good shot.

Layup wasn't as bad as I remembered, he went into 1-on-3 but only because 2 of the guys didn't close in.

[MUAlphaBangura]

Burton played well, but called for a couple of cheap fouls. That hurt.

Thomas passed up 3's late in the shot clock a couple of times that resulted in wild shots (one by Gardner) to beat the shot clock. He did play well, but he needs to take those shots. One was off of a screen for him.

Burton's cheap fouls were due to his poor defensive positioning which I will blame on his poor high school coaching. I think he may be stifled a little bit this year just due to the amount ha has had to learn, cuz he didn't learn anything at Vincent. Hope he can just start to play instead of being a step behind cuz he is thinking too much.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I would throw Jamil into the discussion as well.....we can't have him be a complete non factor...not if we are going to win....the length, quickness and athleticsm of St Johns is just dominating the game

Agreed. Not a lot of guys doing what we need to do to win right now. Jamil taking bad shots is something we really can't afford.

[TheSultan]

Burton's cheap fouls were due to his poor defensive positioning which I will blame on his poor high school coaching. I think he may be stifled a little bit this year just due to the amount ha has had to learn, cuz he didn't learn anything at Vincent. Hope he can just start to play instead of being a step behind cuz he is thinking too much.


He also got caught twice on screens leading to jump shots...he just doesn't seem to know what is going on at times. Watches the ball too much.

[TheSultan]

Agreed. Not a lot of guys doing what we need to do to win right now. Jamil taking bad shots is something we really can't afford.


Primary evidence why Jamil isn't an NBA player. Too much length and athleticism bothers him.

[Nukem2]

Is this team tired today with the game only 40 hours after PC...? Seem to be a step slow today. SJU had 2 extra days to rest and prepare and is playing at home...

[TheSultan]

Is this team tired today with the game only 40 hours after PC...? Seem to be a step slow today. SJU had 2 extra days to rest and prepare and is playing at home...


That might be part of it, but that's what you have to deal with.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Is this team tired today with the game only 40 hours after PC...? Seem to be a step slow today. SJU had 2 extra days to rest and prepare and is playing at home...

I was wondering the same thing, as SJU looks like an NBA team athletically compared to us. That being said, I don't think it has much to do with tired legs but certainly could be wrong.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Also, what is up with Juan's total lack of confidence to the point that he is nervous shooting layups (as seen by not even drawing rim) the last few games?

[Markedman]

Unfortunately he has alot of company.......


He also got caught twice on screens leading to jump shots...he just doesn't seem to know what is going on at times. Watches the ball too much.

[Nukem2]

Also, what is up with Juan's total lack of confidence to the point that he is nervous shooting layups (as seen by not even drawing rim) the last few games?
He has been kinda throwing the ball at the basket since late December. Wonder what's going on...?

[Markedman]

St Johns is much more athletic then us.....I have a hard time using fatigue as an excuse in the first half...it was just bad basketball

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Also, what is up with Juan's total lack of confidence to the point that he is nervous shooting layups (as seen by not even drawing rim) the last few games?

I think the new rotations haven't helped. He's seeing less minutes and less consistent stretches. His offense hasn't been very good, but seeing his PT diminish hasn't helped.

Not sure any player has come up shorter on my expectations than Juan. I love his passion and work ethic, but he just doesn't seem to be able to put it together on the court.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Juan getting Jamil's minutes right now? Injury related or poor play?

[MUMac]

Juan getting Jamil's minutes right now? Injury related or poor play?

Jamil was upset on the sidelines when he came out late in the 1st half. I wondered if it was due to that or poor play?

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Just can't get this to single digits.

That should have been a T on Harrison. Looked intentional, especially with the comments after.

[RJax55]

I think the new rotations haven't helped. He's seeing less minutes and less consistent stretches. His offense hasn't been very good, but seeing his PT diminish hasn't helped.

Not sure any player has come up shorter on my expectations than Juan. I love his passion and work ethic, but he just doesn't seem to be able to put it together on the court.

He's a hustle guy, thats it. Hasn't developed at all

[Markedman]

UW has now lost 3 games ina row at the Kohl Center.....misery loves company....=)

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Memo to Deonte, sometimes better to slow down the offense than to force into the teeth of the defense.

[MUMac]

UW has now lost 3 games ina row at the Kohl Center.....misery loves company....=)

I was jumping back and forth on that one. Ohio State almost had their Dwight Byckes moment. 1 point lead and they could have taken the clock down. On a breakaway, they miss the shot and give UW a chance to win at the buzzer. They had better luck that MU did with that play.

[MUAlphaBangura]

Just can't get this to single digits.

That should have been a T on Harrison. Looked intentional, especially with the comments after.

I bet a week's salary that the net time a Marquette player kicks somebody, we get T'd up!

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Memo to Deonte, sometimes better to slow down the offense than to force into the teeth of the defense.

Going to come with time, maturity and a better understanding of when to take his chances. Kid is going to be legit when that comes together.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Harrison again? WTF? Cover him!

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Going to come with time, maturity and a better understanding of when to take his chances. Kid is going to be legit when that comes together.

Agree completely, I honestly think he has national player of the year type potential. But frustrating to see some of the duh moments now.

[TheSultan]

Think Buzz is sending a message here. Riding Juan and the freshmen.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Harrison again? WTF? Cover him!

I watched the replay and it was Burton's fault - didnt realize we were in a 2-3 and was late on his rotation as jjj went to cover a guard at the top of the key (maybe a little too aggressively).

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

If Burton could have thrown that down that would have been The One for sure.

[TheSultan]

Burton gives...and takes away. Ah freshmen...

[MUMac]

Think Buzz is sending a message here. Riding Juan and the freshmen.

Yes. No Gardner or Wilson.

The bench shows absolutely zero emotion at that TO.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

jjj defense is sometimes mindboggling to me - he clearly wasnt taught many fundamentals in hs/aau

[Nukem2]

Burton gives...and takes away. Ah freshmen...
Hope for the future... :)

[Markedman]

Juan bricks another wide open 3 and they make another one becaue we leave their best shooter open....for about 10th time.....

[TheSultan]

jjj defense is sometimes mindboggling to me - he clearly wasnt taught many fundamentals in hs/aau


Played zone throughout high school from what I recall.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

juan anderson now going with the vander cork screw shot on his 3 ball attempt?

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Anyone else see the Fox Sports Redmen graphic?

And ugh...this is brutal. Anyone else want to not cover Harrison?

[MUMac]

The question appears to be, will Harrison outscore MU?

[MayorBeluga]

Simply embarrassing right now

[Markedman]

Taylor just plays so dumb

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Taylor just plays so dumb

At least he isn't alone in that regard today.

[Markedman]

Team mailed it in today.......lowest basketball IQ MU team in a long time...and I'm not just talking about the freshmen who have an excuse

[CaribouJim]

Taylor just plays so dumb

A low b-ball IQ game overall for the team today.

[Markedman]

When Buzz feels like he has to bench our most talented player(a 5th year senior no less) the team has big problems

[TheSultan]

I simply do not understand the complete lack of effort from some players. Davante...Jamil... Just terrible examples.

[AlexJesswein]

Agree completely, I honestly think he has national player of the year type potential.

LOLwhat

He has the potential to be very good but that is just crazy talk

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Team mailed it in today.......lowest basketball IQ MU team in a long time...and I'm not just talking about the freshmen who have an excuse

Freshmen having freshmen moments are frustrating but understandable. Of course it's not helping that SJU seems to be able to do no wrong in the second half.

[Nukem2]

Guess we did not play to the scouting report today...or, was the scouting report bad...well, a lot o teaching points from the game.

[bleedbluegold03]

so are all the underclassmen giving the most consistent in effort in practice? Just glad Buzz is sticking to his guns with that strategy.

[TheSultan]

so are all the underclassmen giving the most consistent in effort in practice? Just glad Buzz is sticking to his guns with that strategy.


And they clearly aren't the answer either. Love the effort, but they're playing like freshmen.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

LOLwhat

He has the potential to be very good but that is just crazy talk

At his size, he's almost certainly a four year guy and has a ton of Jae Crowder in his game. Give Buzz that much time with a kid that has this kind of raw physical skill and motor and I feel the sky is the limit.

I'm not saying he's a NBA all-star, I'm saying he could be the best college player in the country. Best piece of clay Buzz has had so far, and he has time to work with him.

[MUAlphaBangura]

I simply do not understand the complete lack of effort from some players. Davante...Jamil... Just terrible examples.

That is my worry for next year's team. The young guys have no examples on this team to learn toughness, leadership,etc. Which young guy has that in them to become a leader without an example.

[bleedbluegold03]

And they clearly aren't the answer either. Love the effort, but they're playing like freshmen.

That's not the point. It's not about this game any more. It's about giving underclassmen time to give the program a better chance to succeed in the next four years.

[TulsaWarrior]

I think Buzz is doing two things. The only shot at the NCAA is winning the conference tournament. To do that he has to have usable depth on the roster. So we're seeing playing times for the freshmen. Take the lumps and see what happens at the end of the season. Finally the PT for the freshmen will help next season. Getting your brains beaten out will make them more coachable.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

No Jamil in the second half. Have to think this is more than sending a message.

[bleedbluegold03]

I feel crazy even saying it, but I think we could be inspired enough for a week to win the conference tournament. Not holding my breath though.

[AlexJesswein]

I think Buzz is doing two things. The only shot at the NCAA is winning the conference tournament. To do that he has to have usable depth on the roster. So we're seeing playing times for the freshmen. Take the lumps and see what happens at the end of the season. Finally the PT for the freshmen will help next season. Getting your brains beaten out will make them more coachable.

What many of us had been clamoring for games ago. The writing has been on the wall

[Markedman]

19 points off of turnovers for ST Johns already.

[bleedbluegold03]

coming in to the season, success was winning conference and get to the second weekend. now, it's hoping the future doesn't transfer. nuff said.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

I feel crazy even saying it, but I think we could be inspired enough for a week to win the conference tournament. Not holding my breath though.

i hate to say it but you're out of your mind :)

[bleedbluegold03]

What many of us had been clamoring for games ago. The writing has been on the wall

(and were berated for)

[Markedman]

When you play against a team that is bigger, quicker and more athletic if you are going to win you have to value the ball, make good decisions and have good 3 point shooters............this is like that game we lost when Crean was here against Cincy when they blocked about 20 shots against us at the BC....

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

This team is so schizophrenic. The real problem is they have played well many times and still had hard fought losses. Today is the first time I've had worries about us getting an at-large bid.

[bleedbluegold03]

derrick wilson everybody

[CaribouJim]

When you play against a team that is bigger, quicker and more athletic if you are going to win you have to value the ball, make good decisions and have good 3 point shooters............this is like that game we lost when Crean was here against Cincy when they blocked about 20 shots against us at the BC....

...and failure of our PG's to penetrate and dish to the low post making our reliance on the 3 all the more problematic. Just an ugly game all around.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Derrick needed to be doing this all game. Not enough drives early, not enough attempts at getting the ball to the paint. Too much outside today, not enough inside preceding it.

[AlexJesswein]

Derrick needed to be doing this all game. Not enough drives early, not enough attempts at getting the ball to the paint. Too much outside today, not enough inside preceding it.

Those baskets had nothing to do with time and score?

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Those baskets had nothing to do with time and score?

The effort to get inside wasn't there early. Not enough effort to do what has worked for us this year. I said the same thing at halftime.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

This team is so schizophrenic. The real problem is they have played well many times and still had hard fought losses. Today is the first time I've had worries about us getting an at-large bid.

Really? Brew come on now - you need to take off the blue/gold glasses

[Markedman]

Yeah those garbage time baskets weren't going to happen when the game was in doubt...

Should be an interesting post game regarding Jamil......

No magic pills this year......

[BLT]

This team hasn't won more than two in a row all season. There never was a run in them and now Buzz is

[Markedman]

If this is the first time I have no idea what team you have watched all year.....


Really? Brew come on now - you need to take off the blue/gold glasses

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Really? Brew come on now - you need to take off the blue/gold glasses

I've been looking at the schedule and seeing that Providence game as the time we could take off. With past history, I expected this team to figure it out about now. We had no bad losses and as pessimistic as many were, there were no holes in our résumé that couldn't be easily remedied between now and March 16.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

All fair points brew, just think that if you watch this team enough, which I know you do, there are too many inconsistencies for us to string together the type of run that would earn as an at large.

[TulsaWarrior]

I'm not berating anyone. Never have. I'm a reporter by trade. In the past week Buzz made the decision to play for the conference tournament and next year. No rose colored glasses -- this team could get lucky but I would be surprised. The parts this season just do not fit together well. There's no consistent catalyst on this team. I still have profound faith in Buzz Williams and I'm excited about the talent the 2014-15 team will have. Buzz has been taken to school this season and he's a good student. One final thought -- the make up of the roster in the coming season probably will have a few wrinkles from the way it looks right now.

[CaribouJim]

If this is the first time I have no idea what team you have watched all year.....

Will be interesting on how Buzz distributes minutes from here on in. You don' t want to throw in the towel for sure but you do have to start peeking more than a little towards next year. Deonte, mistakes and all, was impressive and aggressive - something this team sorely lacks and I think JJJ is going to continue to get better with minutes. Dawson is not in those two's class but I hope his minutes increase as well. I don't see a team with a bright future w/ DW as the starting PG next year for certain.

[bleedbluegold03]

get use to silver linings because next year is going to be roooough

[mufansince72]

This team is what it is. Not very good! Pieces don't fit. Just going to sit back and watch the games with low expectations, and try not to get worked up about them.

[Markedman]

Now he is just rubbing it in.....

A Daly Dose Of Hoops ‏@DalyDoseOfHoops 1m
Steve Lavin: "It's always good to win. For me, I think we've played much better in games that we've lost." #sjubb

[AlexJesswein]

This team is what it is. Not very good! Pieces don't fit. Just going to sit back and watch the games with low expectations, and try not to get worked up about them.

Done the same myself. Much less stressful

[MUMac]

This team is what it is. Not very good! Pieces don't fit. Just going to sit back and watch the games with low expectations, and try not to get worked up about them.

Been doing that most of the season.

[Markedman]

Paint Touches ‏@PaintTouches 21s
"Jamil wasn't feeling very good before the game." Flu-like symptons. #mubb

[mufansince72]

Been doing that most of the season.

This too will pass. Just might take a year or two.

[Nukem2]

,Let's give some credit to SJU. Played well and stymied MU at every turn. Were also well rested having played Tuesday while MU had a 40 hour turnaround along with a road trip. But it's only one game . Hopefully our Warriors can learn from this game.

[BLT]

This was an unbalanced team that got more unbalanced, especially in Buzz's switchable offense. Gardner and Otule cannot be 4/5. To play a Twin Towers Buzz would need to play a triangle, double low post but that clogs up his paint touch offense. Each is a five in Buzz's offense. Jamil at PG didn't work. Jamil is not a 10 toes to the rim three, and settles as a 4 for fade aways. Jake is a situational and the freshmen were not ready. Todd has fought through two injuries and inconsistency. Juan shows energy as a switchable but the shot is not there. Both Derrick and Juan lack confidence. And the two newcomers who were thought to see the most minutes won't see one.

Buzz told us this at the Fish Fry about this. He has tried all sorts of things to find consistent success. Not much has worked. Face it, this team has not won more than two games in a row all season...and only one in a row in conference. It has the parts, not just the whole. The only frustrating thing is, as a near .500 team, there is much more talent than Crean's first two near .500 teams. Would only like to see more of a scrappy effort, though, like Northwestern is showing. I am only seeing that from Juan, Jake and Derrick frankly.