Game thread....

[IWB]

Sorry, didn't get here until half as I was coaching my 5th graders. (big win).

MU needs to turn it up here. Villanova moves the ball well, but very predictable. Last call on Wilson was terrible and late - didn't help that the ref was 6 inches from Jay Wright who was the one that urged the whistle.

[TedBaxter]

Glad to see the lower bowl finally get back into their seats.

[IWB]

Shot clock was never re-set, MU gets additional 20 seconds. Asleep at the wheel game opps?

[TedBaxter]

Just can't get loose balls and Jimmy Jackson is talking about it.

[IWB]

DePaul suspends Cleveland Melvin for Seton Hall game today for violation of team rules. Even when DePaul is playing well they still can't catch a break.

[IWB]

Huge steal by Gardner and basket for Mayo. MU needs to keep the pressure on as Nova is feeling it and missing open shots.

[TedBaxter]

Johnson, I mean Steve Taylor is making a difference on the boards even if he's just tipping the ball out.

[TedBaxter]

This is the same game as the Syracuse game from last year. I think MU can make the run to win it down by 6.

[IWB]

Why would anyone ever defend Davante 1-on-1 in the paint?

[IWB]

The baskets they are giving up are defensible, MU is just chasing too much, need to be a little more disciplined in staying home, while continuing to apply pressure.

Last foul call on Mayo - Yes, definitely a foul, but no way in hell could Michael Stephens see that foul. He was behind the play, two defenders closed in and Mayo reached across, but no way Stephens could see that. If O'Connell called it, fine, but call what you can see, not what you think is happening.

[IWB]

Looking at the last trip on the Nova end, Otule hit with an elbow. Anyone have a look on TV?

[IWB]

Otule and Gardner own the paint - keep feeding them the ball!

MU still getting pounded on the glass, Nova has that edge 29-23. MU only has 7 offensive rebounds on 20 missed shots.

[TedBaxter]

I think you need to get one of them out as we can't defend with both in the game.

[milkbone]

Agree with Ted. MU is way to slow with both big guys.

[IWB]

I don't care if it is only one of them, get the ball inside.

[IWB]

Jake Thomas has not attempted a shot - Nova all over him.

[MUMac]

Good thing Todd Mayo guarded the corner on that play. I think the usher might have been open.

[IWB]

And Mayo covered that usher with 1 second on the shot clock.

[IWB]

Jay Wright gets what he wants out of the refs...when he's not bitching about Buzz being on the court. Yes, Buzz over extends himself onto the court constantly, but have never seen a coach bitch about it so much, especially when Buzz is on the other end and ball is on his end.

[IWB]

Does Todd Mayo have 3 FTs in him?

[IWB]

Todd Mayo has balls of steel.

[MUMac]

Mayonnaise!!!!

[IWB]

Mayo with 10 points in last two minutes, Steve Taylor with biggest charge pickup of all time.

[MUMac]

Big time charge call. Feet in the arc. Can't mss that call. Horrible D by DWilson. Let's him run down the court uncontested. Can't do that. Horrible.

[TedBaxter]

Can MU take the break on the call and win this one?

[IWB]

Agree, Derrick let him run the whole way, probably terrified of fouling him.

[MUMac]

Agree, Derrick let him run the whole way, probably terrified of fouling him.

You need to slow him down. That can be done without standing still and letting him run free. He plays for defensive purposes. That was really bad and should have cost MU the game.

[MUMac]

Jamil Wilson needs to give Mayo a passing lane. Mayo gets the TO, but that is all on Wilson. Cost him his 5th foul, as well.

[IWB]

Oh I agree Mac, just guessing on what he was thinking.

Last foul on Wilson - he did nothing but stand there.

[MUMac]

Oh I agree Mac, just guessing on what he was thinking.

Last foul on Wilson - he did nothing but stand there.

I suspect the calls will favor Nova for awhile.

[MUMac]

MU's defense is really bad. Nova can do anything they want against MU.

[Marquette]

If Villanova wins and John Dawson ends the game with 8 minutes played, how long will it take for bleed to say he was right all year and Buzz was wrong?

[TedBaxter]

Archie has killed them the whole game.

[milkbone]

Archie is blowing by any MU player that tries to guard him.

[MUMac]

Letting them burn the 35 second clock works when you actually stop them.

[IWB]

He blows by and throws the ball to the backside every single time. Well no, he took it in once, but always dishes to the backside. if he drives baseline - he feeds the opposite corner. If he drives, he dishes to the opposite block. How have they not caught on to that?

[TedBaxter]

Well, the game shouldn't have gone to overtime anyway.

[IWB]

Ouch - MU falls to Nova in OT 94-85.

Crowd absolutely empties on last foul, how about supporting your team with applause for a great effort?

[TedBaxter]

MU has either go 10-1 the rest of the way in the conference or win the conference tourney to sniff the NCAA this year.

[Halo]

MU has either go 10-1 the rest of the way in the conference or win the conference tourney to sniff the NCAA this year.

I think 11 wins can get them on the bubble. Look around at other conferences and some big drops after the first few teams. This would have been a huge win.

[TedBaxter]

If Villanova wins and John Dawson ends the game with 8 minutes played, how long will it take for bleed to say he was right all year and Buzz was wrong?

Dawson should have played more.

[TulsaWarrior]

A little more consistent guard play and the outcome is different today. I'm finally beginning to think at this point in the season DW and Thomas should not play at the same time. Some of Marquette's line-ups on the court were puzzling. The Oxtule combinaton is a waste of Gardner's talents. I'd like to see Otule and Taylor or Gardner and Taylor on the court at the same time. Mayo has earned more times. Dawson had some defensive lapses but I could live with them. Burton seemed lost. It was nice to see Luke Fischer on the bench today and Diamond Stone's family in the stands.

[MUBB713]

Ouch - MU falls to Nova in OT 94-85.

Crowd absolutely empties on last foul, how about supporting your team with applause for a great effort?

Marquette gets way more support than they deserve this year speaking from a general perspective. People like us who follow the team 365 days of the year are in a small minority. For an 11-8 (now 11-9) team I think they had a great crowd today and most teams wouldn't come close to drawing what MU did today even with better success.

[ge1974]

Dawson should have played more.

Dawson was Mr Overtime against Gtown. Why did Derrick play so much???? He had some real costly turnovers and Arcidinacono blew by him on D. We KILLED Nova in the paints points war but when you have two ineffective guards in Thomas and Wilson who can't get off shots on the court you are going to lose the perimeter game. John Dawson CAN create his own shot and should be playing MUCH more.

Still, it was a great game. Hats off to Nova. If we hade made out FTs we would have won.

[kneelb4zerg]

Dawson got annihilated on D when he was in the game. No way did he deserve more minutes.

[MUMac]

I only saw the 2nd half. From what I saw, DWill got annihilated on D when he was in the game as well.

Dawson is more fluid offensively than DWill. When DWill has the ball and penetrates, he is far too mechanical and slow reacting. Dawson moves the ball better. After Monday Night, I thought he earned more playtime.

[RJax55]

Dawson was Mr Overtime against Gtown. Why did Derrick play so much???? He had some real costly turnovers and Arcidinacono blew by him on D. We KILLED Nova in the paints points war but when you have two ineffective guards in Thomas and Wilson who can't get off shots on the court you are going to lose the perimeter game. John Dawson CAN create his own shot and should be playing MUCH more.


The one thing I think that we can say about this season is that if D. Wilson is going to playing 30+ mins against decent teams, MU is not going to win. Not going to say that more Dawson will equal more wins, but you have to find out. MU does not have enough talent elsewhere to cover D. Wilson limitations on the offensive-end. It is amazing to watch how much effort MU needs to get open shots in the half-court.

Even though Nova won today, Jay Wright's gameplan was horrible. By not doubling down on Gardner, Nova allowed MU to hang in the game. Almost, cost them.

[ge1974]

The Nova PG, Arcidiacano had 20 points, 11 assists and had ZERO turnovers in 39 minutes of play. Great D job by Derrick Wilson, huh?. At least Dawson can hit the outside shot and keep Nova honest on "D".

[Gato78]

All the crap about Aaron Craft. National announcers thinks his $hit doesn't stink. Arcidiacano is his equal and may be better.

[Gato78]

Dawson was torched in the first half.

[Nukem2]

The Nova PG, Arcidiacano had 20 points, 11 assists and had ZERO turnovers in 39 minutes of play. Great D job by Derrick Wilson, huh?. At least Dawson can hit the outside shot and keep Nova honest on "D".Yep. Was at the game and Nova's guards went by Derrick and Jake at will Both had trouble getting past ball screens and were simply a step late. Jake Thomas contributed zip today in 29 minutes. At least play Dawson at the 2. Very puzzling and frustrating. The Thomas/Wilson combo simply just not give MU a chance to win against good teams.

[kneelb4zerg]

The Nova PG, Arcidiacano had 20 points, 11 assists and had ZERO turnovers in 39 minutes of play. Great D job by Derrick Wilson, huh?. At least Dawson get hit the outside shot and keep Nova honest on "D".

Our offense today was outstanding. Do you really think Dawson would have been the stopper we needed on Aricijs whatever his name?
We lost bc we gave up too many second chance points and couldn't stop the pick and roll especially in OT- not surprising bc our best team defender on switches had fouled out.
Bottom line Nova is just better. Playing Dawson more wouldn't have solved our problems today in my opinion.

[kneelb4zerg]

Dawson was torched in the first half.

Yes thank you.

[RJax55]

Dawson is more fluid offensively than DWill. When DWill has the ball and penetrates, he is far too mechanical and slow reacting. Dawson moves the ball better. After Monday Night, I thought he earned more playtime.

D. Wilson dribbles without a purpose. Its one of the worst things an offensive player can do. It creates floor-spacing issues and leads to the ball sticking to one-side of the floor.

The majority of his drives serve no purpose. Because he's non-shooter, he can't beat his man off the dribble. So, he rarely forces help. Instead, he has to pick-up his dribble or back it out.

[kneelb4zerg]

D. Wilson dribbles without a purpose. Its one of the worst things an offensive player can do. It creates floor-spacing issues and leads to the ball sticking to one-side of the floor.

The majority of his drives serve no purpose. Because he's non-shooter, he can't beat his man off the dribble. So, he rarely forces help. Instead, he has to pick-up his dribble or back it out.

That's great. But our offense was outstanding today. All year we've been complaining about him because our offense sucks. Now we show signs on offense and he sucks on defense. Playing against really good teams and players can make lots of players look bad. Nova is just better this year across the board.

[MUMac]

Our offense today was outstanding. Do you really think Dawson would have been the stopper we needed on Aricijs whatever his name?
We lost bc we gave up too many second chance points and couldn't stop the pick and roll especially in OT- not surprising bc our best team defender on switches had fouled out.
Bottom line Nova is just better. Playing Dawson more wouldn't have solved our problems today in my opinion.

Dawson has shown me a better ability to feed the post. The announcers commented on how when DWill penetrated, his man would play the pass - that is all he has. He is too mechanical and slow with the ball. There is less movement when he is in the game. I do not believe DWill did much to enhance the offense today. I think Dawson could have fed the post better (where MU was killing Nova) and might have made a difference.

Would Dawson have solved our problems? Who knows. In extended play Monday he did. He did not get much of a run today to see if he could. DWill's d was bad all day as well. He did nothing to stop the Nova guards from dominating and killing MU. If he can't do it on d, then he does not add much value to the team, IMHO. And I have not been one to attack DWill in the past. I just wanted to see more of Dawson, specifically in the 2nd half.

[kneelb4zerg]

Dawson has shown me a better ability to feed the post. The announcers commented on how when DWill penetrated, his man would play the pass - that is all he has. I do not believe DWill did much to enhance the offense today.

Would Dawson have solved our problems? Who knows. In extended play Monday he did. He did not get much of a run today to see if he could. DWill's d was bad all day as well. He did nothing to stop the Nova guards from dominating and killing MU. If he can't do it on d, then he does not add much value to the team, IMHO. And I have not been one to attack DWill in the past. I just wanted to see more of Dawson, specifically in the 2nd half.

It's team defense. The rotations are slow. Not all his fault just bc he's the guy matched up positionally. All our guys were a step slow on d. That's a credit to nova and it's also been a problem for us all year when we face teams with good perimeter players z

[ge1974]

Dawson was torched in the first half.

Derrick Wilson was torched in both the first and second halfs.

[kneelb4zerg]

Derrick Wilson was torched in both the first and second halfs.

Fine but the entire team was torched not just Derrick. And even when they missed we couldn't get the rebound. Derricks fault also, or can we spread the blame around to someone else instead of constantly ripping on this guy?

[Markedman]

None of our perimeter guys could defend them off the dribble. Dawson against a zone is much different then against the man we saw today. Nova went at him time after time in the first half and scored eveytime. Unfortunately Derrick wasn't any more effective.

Amazing the game was as close as it was....I never for a second thought we would win.

[MUMac]

It's team defense. The rotations are slow. Not all his fault just bc he's the guy matched up positionally. All our guys were a step slow on d. That's a credit to nova and it's also been a problem for us all year when we face teams with good perimeter players z

Team D was bad, I agree. DWill was beaten early and often at the point of attack. He greatly contributed to the poor defense. Nova had their way with he and Jake today.

Mayo was also horrible on d. In OT, he was awful on d.

Dawson may have played poorly on d, but as far as the guards go, he was not alone.

[MUMac]

Fine but the entire team was torched not just Derrick. And even when they missed we couldn't get the rebound. Derricks fault also, or can we spread the blame around to someone else instead of constantly ripping on this guy?

Can you stop with the constantly ripping of Dawson, as well? That is how this started. Some of us wanted more than 8 minutes of Dawson today. You tore into his defense, which led to the discussion of the defensive lapses of Wilson. Your defense of his porous defense was to blame the team d, but the problem with Dawson was solely his (as I read your comments).

Let's face it, DWill did not do much to stay in front of his man today. It was not a pretty defensive display, as his man continually broke down MU's defense.

EDIT: my point in this is that all the guards played poorly on d. Dawson was not alone, but his defensive lapses are the reason why he did not play in the 2nd half? He feeds the post much better than DWill and that is where MU had the advantage all game. I thought he deserved some run in the 2nd half. That is all. I don't mean to attack DWill, that was not my intent. But the complaints of Dawson were the same that could be of DWill today.

[TedBaxter]

Dawson was torched in the first half.

When MU was letting players get by them in the second half, Derrick, Todd and Jake could have used a blow and that's why I said John should have played. He hit one of the two three pointers on the night, so he might have sprung one of those as well.

[Nukem2]

When MU was letting players get by them in the second half, Derrick, Todd and Jake could have used a blow and that's why I said John should have played. He hit one of the two three pointers on the night, so he might have sprung one of those as well.
Yep. And, when John is in the offense actually works well. The idea is to out score the opponent.

[kneelb4zerg]

Yep. And, when John is in the offense actually works well. The idea is to out score the opponent.

Gotta get stops though. The offense was plenty good enough today. Trying to imagine how it could have been better but I can't. Buzz said as much in the post game.

[Nukem2]

Gotta get stops though. The offense was plenty good enough today. Trying to imagine how it could have been better but I can't. Buzz said as much in the post game.
The offense could have been better, but it's hard when you ply 3 on 5 with Derrick and Jake as a combo. Was at the game and it was clearly obvious. MUs offense was basically Davante, Todd and Jamil going one on one.

[kneelb4zerg]

We scored 85 points. Shot 50%. Not sure what the efficiency was / I think Buzz said like 1.16. That's good. Defense and second chance points were bad. yet people continue to blame Derrick. It's getting ridiculous and has been ridiculous all. Year. Long.

[Nukem2]

We scored 85 points. Shot 50%. Not sure what the efficiency was / I think Buzz said like 1.16. That's good. Defense and second chance points were bad. yet people continue to blame Derrick. It's getting ridiculous and has been ridiculous all. Year. Long.
Point is that most of the offense was one on one. And Derrick and Jake were thrashed on the other end ( and they had 74 minutes ). Open thy eyes. Watching Derrick dribble aimlessly and jake being simply face guarded is hard to watch. I think Derrick is actually ok, but combined with Jake ( or vis-a-versa ) is quite simply an exercise in futility. Great young guys and great teammates, but a bad combo on the court. Their strengths and weaknesses do not mesh well together. Even the announcers have said that. 9 losses in 20 games is proof of that.

[kneelb4zerg]

Point is that most of the offense was one on one. And Derrick and Jake were thrashed on the other end ( and they had 74 minutes ). Open thy eyes. Watching Derrick dribble aimlessly and jake being simply face guarded is hard to watch. I think Derrick is actually ok, but combined with Jake ( or vis-a-versa ) is quite simply an exercise in futility. Great young guys and great teammates, but a bad combo on the court. Their strengths and weaknesses do not mesh well together. Even the announcers have said that. 9 losses in 20 games is proof of that.

I don't know why I get in these pointless debates. First you said the offense could have been better. Now it's the defense. Which is exactly what I said. My point was the offense was more than enough today.

[MU_Iceman]

MU peed down their legs. Period. End of story. Their season went up in smoke, in the first 3 minute stretch of OT. Game...set..season. The tourney won't be the same without MU. I for one, won't be watching it.

[Nukem2]

I don't know why I get in these pointless debates. First you said the offense could have been better. Now it's the defense. Which is exactly what I said. My point was the offense was more than enough today.
I simply added that the defense could be better, as Buzz said. But, my main point is that the offense could have been better. Offense was mostly one on one baskets. The scorer was very friendly to Derrick who was credited with 7 assists. Passing the ball to a guy who takes 3 dribbles to score is not an assist in my book.

[MUMac]

Derrick is what he is. To give him credit for the offensive efficiency is a fools paradise. He is not an offensive weapon and the offense does not flow with him. MU was down 5-10 most of the game. It's not like MU was toe to toe with Nova today. It took a special comeback (and poor free throw shooting from Nova) to get it into OT. When MU needed a bucket to pull even or put pressure on Nova, Nova got a stop and went on a run. When MU needed a stop, they could not stop Archie.

All anyone who does not see eye to eye with you is saying is we wanted see if Dawson could have made a difference. You are the one who talked negatively on Dawson, yet it is you who gets upset when others talk about Wilson's flaws.

The advantage Marquette had against Nova in the paint. Dawson does a much better job of setting up Gardner and Chris than Wilson does. I would have liked to see more than 8 minutes for Dawson and that is all anyone else said until you disparaged Dawson for your undying support of Derrick.

[Nukem2]

Derrick is what he is. To give him credit for the offensive efficiency is a fools paradise. He is not an offensive weapon and the offense does not flow with him. MU was down 5-10 most of the game. It's not like MU was toe to toe with Nova today. It took a special comeback (and poor free throw shooting from Nova) to get it into OT. When MU needed a bucket to pull even or put pressure on Nova, Nova got a stop and went on a run. When MU needed a stop, they could not stop Archie.

All anyone who does not see eye to eye with you is saying is we wanted see if Dawson could have made a difference. You are the one who talked negatively on Dawson, yet it is you who gets upset when others talk about Wilson's flaws.

The advantage Marquette had against Nova in the paint. Dawson does a much better job of setting up Gardner and Chris than Wilson does. I would have liked to see more than 8 minutes for Dawson and that is all anyone else said until you disparaged Dawson for your undying support of Derrick.
Yep....need to give guys a chance.

[kneelb4zerg]

Derrick is what he is. To give him credit for the offensive efficiency is a fools paradise. He is not an offensive weapon and the offense does not flow with him. MU was down 5-10 most of the game. It's not like MU was toe to toe with Nova today. It took a special comeback (and poor free throw shooting from Nova) to get it into OT. When MU needed a bucket to pull even or put pressure on Nova, Nova got a stop and went on a run. When MU needed a stop, they could not stop Archie.

All anyone who does not see eye to eye with you is saying is we wanted see if Dawson could have made a difference. You are the one who talked negatively on Dawson, yet it is you who gets upset when others talk about Wilson's flaws.

The advantage Marquette had against Nova in the paint. Dawson does a much better job of setting up Gardner and Chris than Wilson does. I would have liked to see more than 8 minutes for Dawson and that is all anyone else said until you disparaged Dawson for your undying support of Derrick.

So it's okay to repeatedly bash Derrick after every loss. But it is somehow untoward to point out that Dawson looked awful when in the game. Why?

WTH is going on.

[mufansince72]

Gotta get stops though. The offense was plenty good enough today. Trying to imagine how it could have been better but I can't. Buzz said as much in the post game.

Difference in the game was three point shooting in my opinion. That is why Derrick needs to be on the bench.

[MUMac]

So it's okay to repeatedly bash Derrick after every loss. But it is somehow untoward to point out that Dawson looked awful when in the game. Why?

WTH is going on.

WOW, that is how you read that? Man, that is something else. No wonder you are difficult to communicate with. I am done with you. :mad:

[kneelb4zerg]

WOW, that is how you read that? Man, that is something else. No wonder you are difficult to communicate with. I am done with you. :mad:

Vice versa. Isn't losing a blast?

[Markedman]

I notice the post game discussions are always more fun after wins......

[mufansince72]

I actually thought today was about the best they have played all season. Just lost to a better team.

[kneelb4zerg]

Every post after a loss: Buzz should have played X, Y, or Z instead of A, B, or C. Makes me long for the days when we ran 6 DEEP SON.

[IWB]

Yes, Derrick and Jake got burned D today, true.

People complain about Derrick & Jake's lack of O, true.

John, JJJ & Duane can't stop Derrick & Jake in practice.

So if Derrick and Jake are that limited in offense and those guys can't stop them, why do you thing they can stop Nova's talented guards?

[kneelb4zerg]

Yes, Derrick and Jake got burned D today, true.

People complain about Derrick & Jake's lack of O, true.

John, JJJ & Duane can't stop Derrick & Jake in practice.

So if Derrick and Jake are that limited in offense and those guys can't stop them, why do you thing they can stop Nova's talented guards?

Wait, so watching Dawson for 8 minutes doesn't trump all that? I'm confused.

[mufansince72]

Yes, Derrick and Jake got burned D today, true.

People complain about Derrick & Jake's lack of O, true.

John, JJJ & Duane can't stop Derrick & Jake in practice.

So if Derrick and Jake are that limited in offense and those guys can't stop them, why do you thing they can stop Nova's talented guards?

I may be in the minority, but I don't care about practice other than that they try hard. From all reports Jake has been lighting it up in practice since day 1. Hasn't showed up consistently in games. If Derrick is dominating in practice, he too has never shown it in a game. Bottom line is we are losing because our starting guards should not be starting guards.

[RJax55]

Yes, Derrick and Jake got burned D today, true.

People complain about Derrick & Jake's lack of O, true.

John, JJJ & Duane can't stop Derrick & Jake in practice.

So if Derrick and Jake are that limited in offense and those guys can't stop them, why do you thing they can stop Nova's talented guards?

We got major problems then. Jake and Derrick are the least talented backcourt in the conference. Both are extremely limited players.

[2013UnleashTheBeast]

Yes, Derrick and Jake got burned D today, true.

People complain about Derrick & Jake's lack of O, true.

John, JJJ & Duane can't stop Derrick & Jake in practice.

So if Derrick and Jake are that limited in offense and those guys can't stop them, why do you thing they can stop Nova's talented guards?

The only problem I have with this is: do Dawson & Wilson sag into the paint off of Derrick? Or do they guard him straight up since they are practicing using MU's D? Because of course Derrick would look pretty good offensively if defended that way. The only problem is that no opposing team guards him that way, so those practice performances should be taken with a grain of salt if that is the case, IMO. Just my two cents, I don't hate Derrick.

[TheSultan]

When MU was letting players get by them in the second half, Derrick, Todd and Jake could have used a blow and that's why I said John should have played. He hit one of the two three pointers on the night, so he might have sprung one of those as well.


This is exactly what I was saying at the time. Derrick wasn't bad by any means yesterday, but running him for 36 minutes was a problem. And one of the reasons Dawson looked back in the second half is because Buzz basically put him in with a second unit.

I think by far the bigger problem was a 2 guard that didn't shoot for 38 minutes and never scored.

[IWB]

Or do they guard him straight up since they are practicing using MU's D?.

No - depending on who is on what end, they will play opponent's D.

[MUAlphaBangura]

Yes, Derrick and Jake got burned D today, true.

People complain about Derrick & Jake's lack of O, true.

John, JJJ & Duane can't stop Derrick & Jake in practice.

So if Derrick and Jake are that limited in offense and those guys can't stop them, why do you thing they can stop Nova's talented guards?

+1 million. My guess is those who are ripping Kneel up and down, won't do the same to you IWB.

[bleedbluegold03]

Yes, Derrick and Jake got burned D today, true.

People complain about Derrick & Jake's lack of O, true.

John, JJJ & Duane can't stop Derrick & Jake in practice.

So if Derrick and Jake are that limited in offense and those guys can't stop them, why do you thing they can stop Nova's talented guards?

our starting backcourt had 6 points in 65 minutes played. Nova's starting backcourt had 40 points.

[mufansince72]

+1 million. My guess is those who are ripping Kneel up and down, won't do the same to you IWB.

You know what, maybe they wouldn't stop Nova's talented guards, but they may actually put up some points themselves, and demand to be covered on defense. There is something to be said for that as well. Last time I checked, the object of basketball is to score more than your opponent!

[kneelb4zerg]

How many times can we as fans bang our heads against the D Wilson/J Thomas wall this year? I think we can all agree that Buzz isn't stupid (note, not infallible, but also not stupid). If the solution was so obvious, we wouldn't be 11-9.

I also reject the notion that he is stubborn. This is a guy who adapts his style of play to suit the talent on hand every single year. Bo Ryan he is not.

Seriously, the argument that Buzz is either stupidly or stubbornly refusing to play the guys who give us the best chance at winning is extremely bizarre.

[TheSultan]

Seriously, the argument that Buzz is either stupidly or stubbornly refusing to play the guys who give us the best chance at winning is extremely bizarre.


It's used by people who need to have an excuse for why he is playing who he is playing.

I mean otherwise people would have to admit they are wrong.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

You know what, maybe they wouldn't stop Nova's talented guards, but they may actually put up some points themselves, and demand to be covered on defense. There is something to be said for that as well. Last time I checked, the object of basketball is to score more than your opponent!

Demand to be covered on defense? Did you watch yesterday at all? Villanova staying in man allowed them to cover Jake Thomas all day to take him away as a three-point threat. In addition, Villanova stayed up on Derrick throughout the game, not sagging off him as most teams have done as they shift into a zone. Our offense was NOT the problem. Villanova DID cover our guards. That's why Davante was able to have a field day in the paint. That's why Jamil was able to be efficient. That's why Mayo was able to score effectively all day.

Jesus, you'd think every single game is the exact same reading these posts. 'Nova did cover our two starting guards and that allowed the rest of our team to score on them nearly at will. Oh, and Derrick also had 7 assists and 5 rebounds to go along with his 6 points. Did those points created and possessions won not help our offense? Yes, Jake had a forgettable game, but it was because Villanova made him a defensive priority. It's not like he went 0/10 from the field, he only had 2 shots because they were staying close to him and not allowing him to get free shots.

[warriorfan4life]

The reality is that this team is just good enough to compete with most every team, regardless of the venue. However, it lacks the go-to guy to help win these close games against quality competition (and at this point, cannot count on that emerging). A bunch of near misses in recruiting, Vander unexpected leaving early, and Duane Wilson's injury are all contributing factors to this shortfall. Thankfully, the close recruiting misses in past classes have become hits and the unexpected fortune of getting a stud big transfer adds to a very promising future. Nova two years was 13-19, 5-13 in the Big East, and looked far worse then us this year. Now they are in the top 10 and look poised for a banner 2-3 year run.

[MU_Iceman]

How many times can we as fans bang our heads against the D Wilson/J Thomas wall this year? I think we can all agree that Buzz isn't stupid (note, not infallible, but also not stupid). If the solution was so obvious, we wouldn't be 11-9.

I also reject the notion that he is stubborn. This is a guy who adapts his style of play to suit the talent on hand every single year. Bo Ryan he is not.

Seriously, the argument that Buzz is either stupidly or stubbornly refusing to play the guys who give us the best chance at winning is extremely bizarre.


To be fair, I'm not sure why you think that's such a bizarre statement. Buzz has said himself, he plays the guys that have earned it the most. Just because you work hard in practice etc etc, does NOT mean you give the team the best chance of winning, and deserve to play more minutes than someone who doesn't work as hard but would give MU a better chance of winning. At some point, you have to get over your loyalty to certain players, and realize they probably work harder in practice because they have to to make up for a talent deficiency. Talent wins ball games, not necessarily guys who practice the hardest.

I Coach a baseball team in the summer and I had a situation similar to this. The guys that would come to practice every week would wonder why someone who almost could never make practice(this is an adult team by the way), would start for me. It's pretty easy...He gives me the best chance of winning. You may have been at practice every day and put in more time than he does, but if he's a better ball player and gives me a better chance of winning, that's who I'm going to play, but I appreciate your efforts and all you do to help the team in other ways.

[TheSultan]

Something tells me that coaching a college basketball team is a little different than adult, rec. league baseball.

It's very simple. If the more "talented" players, who you think can win MU more games, want to play, they should perform better in practice. I mean, if they are more talented, it should be simple right?

[Markedman]

Yeah Nova defintely played us differently then most other teams have...it was really kind of bizarre to watch Gardner kill them because they stayed with Derrick and Thomas.

I would expect Wright to do it differently next time.......

I think we will see sagging man to man and zone from Providence which should provide more opportunites for Dawson and Thomas to make an impact......

[MU_Iceman]

Something tells me that coaching a college basketball team is a little different than adult, rec. league baseball.

It's very simple. If the more "talented" players, who you think can win MU more games, want to play, they should perform better in practice. I mean, if they are more talented, it should be simple right?


Why?? Why should they have to perform better in practice?? You're talking about practice. Not a game, practice. More talented players can and typically do tend to "coast" in practice, but they are ready to go and give you everything come game time. Honestly, even if i was Coaching a college team and all that goes into that, I wouldn't let/want my more talented players to basically just "show up" for practice, and i don't think that's what happens, but if they give an effort, they will be in my starting lineup come game time, because they are the most talent i have and again, talent wins ball games more often than not.

Honestly, by "rewarding" less talented players because they work harder in practice is kind of "whacked out". I mean, are you TRYING to lose ball games?? Trying to send a message?? That's dumb, because college or not, the bbottom line is, you play to win the game. If you're not, you shouldn't be Coaching.

[TheSultan]

Because it is about rewarding good behavior that maximizes a player's potential. Look, if Jake Thomas is outperforming JJJ in practice...if he is playing to the game plan, understanding his role defensively, etc., starting JJJ over Thomas because of "potential" doesn't do Marquette or JJJ any good in the long run.

Furthermore I am not convinced that playing JJJ or Dawson would really improve MU's chances of winning anyway.

[Nukem2]

Because it is about rewarding good behavior that maximizes a player's potential. Look, if Jake Thomas is outperforming JJJ in practice...if he is playing to the game plan, understanding his role defensively, etc., starting JJJ over Thomas because of "potential" doesn't do Marquette or JJJ any good in the long run.

Furthermore I am not convinced that playing JJJ or Dawson would really improve MU's chances of winning anyway.On the other hand, many of us believe that playing Derrick and Jake together for extended minutes does not improve MU's chances of beating quality opponents. A real Catch-22 here..... We move on to the next game which provides another challenge for our starting guards in Bryce Cotton. Hoping for the best.

[mufansince72]

Demand to be covered on defense? Did you watch yesterday at all? Villanova staying in man allowed them to cover Jake Thomas all day to take him away as a three-point threat. In addition, Villanova stayed up on Derrick throughout the game, not sagging off him as most teams have done as they shift into a zone. Our offense was NOT the problem. Villanova DID cover our guards. That's why Davante was able to have a field day in the paint. That's why Jamil was able to be efficient. That's why Mayo was able to score effectively all day.

Jesus, you'd think every single game is the exact same reading these posts. 'Nova did cover our two starting guards and that allowed the rest of our team to score on them nearly at will. Oh, and Derrick also had 7 assists and 5 rebounds to go along with his 6 points. Did those points created and possessions won not help our offense? Yes, Jake had a forgettable game, but it was because Villanova made him a defensive priority. It's not like he went 0/10 from the field, he only had 2 shots because they were staying close to him and not allowing him to get free shots.

Bottom line is our guards are not good enough! They may be nice standup kids, but they are not good enough to be playing extended minutes in major D1 Basketball.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Bottom line is our guards are not good enough! They may be nice standup kids, but they are not good enough to be playing extended minutes in major D1 Basketball.

No, the bottom line is it's about damn time people start accepting that this team is what it is. Playing Dawson and JJJ wouldn't have fixed the problems yesterday. Most of the complaints about Derrick yesterday that I've read seem to have been written by people that had no concept of what he provided to the team yesterday. It gets really annoying to see people make the same negative arguments when those arguments do not even remotely relate to reality. Derrick was good yesterday. He demanded coverage from the defense and kept the offense functioning. Buzz himself said after the game that yesterday might have been our best offensive performance of the season. Yet all we hear is how the defense was able to ignore Derrick, how Dawson's offense would have improved our odds of winning, and how we didn't do enough on the offensive end.

Derrick was very good on the offensive end yesterday. He missed a few bunnies, but he distributed well, was aggressive on the boards, and had our offense humming smoothly. Further, he didn't force his shot, doing a good job of taking what the defense game him. If he had any failing, it was that he was abused on defense, but my guess is had we played Dawson, he'd have been abused even worse by Archie and the rest of 'Nova's talented backcourt.

[BLT]

Bottom line, it was a great college game. Sometimes you have to just give credit to the better team. On the road, Nova just stepped into their shots and nailed them. And then when MU started to overplay the perimeter, Nova successfully attacked the paint.

Jay Wright and Buzz were two of the best offensive coaches in the old BE. They are the top in the new. It was fun seeing each team's plays being executed out of each time out, each time, players got good looks. A chess game.

[bleedbluegold03]

No, the bottom line is it's about damn time people start accepting that this team is what it is. Playing Dawson and JJJ wouldn't have fixed the problems yesterday. Most of the complaints about Derrick yesterday that I've read seem to have been written by people that had no concept of what he provided to the team yesterday. It gets really annoying to see people make the same negative arguments when those arguments do not even remotely relate to reality. Derrick was good yesterday. He demanded coverage from the defense and kept the offense functioning. Buzz himself said after the game that yesterday might have been our best offensive performance of the season. Yet all we hear is how the defense was able to ignore Derrick, how Dawson's offense would have improved our odds of winning, and how we didn't do enough on the offensive end.

Derrick was very good on the offensive end yesterday. He missed a few bunnies, but he distributed well, was aggressive on the boards, and had our offense humming smoothly. Further, he didn't force his shot, doing a good job of taking what the defense game him. If he had any failing, it was that he was abused on defense, but my guess is had we played Dawson, he'd have been abused even worse by Archie and the rest of 'Nova's talented backcourt.

our starting backcourt had 6 points in 65 minutes played. Nova's starting backcourt had 40 points.

[kneelb4zerg]

our starting backcourt had 6 points in 65 minutes played. Nova's starting backcourt had 40 points.

And our front court scored a ton of points. 'Twas Buzz's rather obvious game plan, and the reason Dawson got yanked when he started jacking out of control threes.

[bleedbluegold03]

And our front court scored a ton of points. 'Twas Buzz's rather obvious game plan, and the reason Dawson got yanked when he started jacking out of control threes.

Dawson shot 2 threes, making 1 of them

[kneelb4zerg]

Dawson shot 2 threes, making 1 of them

The one he missed was a terrible shot taken without running the offense. How I remember it at least.

[Markedman]

It also occurs to me that if Chris and/or Taylor had not missed easy layups out of perfect half court offensive sets we might be talking about what a great win it was yesterday instead of how bad Derrick and Jake were.......

[Markedman]

it was...but in fairness anybody can take a bad shot(Jamil took a similar 3...patted himself on the chest afterwards as if to say "my bad"......................freshmen get yanked for them.


The one he missed was a terrible shot taken without running the offense. How I remember it at least.

[mufansince72]

No, the bottom line is it's about damn time people start accepting that this team is what it is. Playing Dawson and JJJ wouldn't have fixed the problems yesterday. Most of the complaints about Derrick yesterday that I've read seem to have been written by people that had no concept of what he provided to the team yesterday. It gets really annoying to see people make the same negative arguments when those arguments do not even remotely relate to reality. Derrick was good yesterday. He demanded coverage from the defense and kept the offense functioning. Buzz himself said after the game that yesterday might have been our best offensive performance of the season. Yet all we hear is how the defense was able to ignore Derrick, how Dawson's offense would have improved our odds of winning, and how we didn't do enough on the offensive end.

Derrick was very good on the offensive end yesterday. He missed a few bunnies, but he distributed well, was aggressive on the boards, and had our offense humming smoothly. Further, he didn't force his shot, doing a good job of taking what the defense game him. If he had any failing, it was that he was abused on defense, but my guess is had we played Dawson, he'd have been abused even worse by Archie and the rest of 'Nova's talented backcourt.

If we had better guards, we would not be talking about this. Derrick is fine in small doses. Jake would be good coming in for a couple minutes to come off of screens to shoot some threes. They are not good enough to play 60 plus minutes against good D1 teams. You can tell me how much you love Derrick Wilson all you want. I'm not saying MU would have won if Dawson played more. I'm saying Derrick is what he is, and is not good enough! I think Dawson can be good enough and he should be given the opportunity to develop! That may mean a few more turnovers. It may mean slightly worse defense. So what! I think the potential offensive output is worth it.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

If Otule, Mayo, Taylor, Burton, Dawson, and Thomas had actually gone after some rebounds we wouldn't be talking about this. Derrick was not the problem yesterday, and the offense was as good as it's been this season, so now is really the wrong time to say "replace DeWil with Dawson", especially when Dawson wasn't particularly good yesterday.

Like BLT said, 'Nova was simply better in overtime. We could've had Junior, James, or Diener in there and we weren't going to beat them yesterday.

[mufansince72]

If Otule, Mayo, Taylor, Burton, Dawson, and Thomas had actually gone after some rebounds we wouldn't be talking about this. Derrick was not the problem yesterday, and the offense was as good as it's been this season, so now is really the wrong time to say "replace DeWil with Dawson", especially when Dawson wasn't particularly good yesterday.

Like BLT said, 'Nova was simply better in overtime. We could've had Junior, James, or Diener in there and we weren't going to beat them yesterday.

I you want to look at the season as one game, sure, you may be right. When you look at it as a whole, we are where we are because the guards are not good enough.

[Markedman]

If we had Junior, James or Diener we probably would have won the game in regulation.......No way to know for certain but if our offense was good with Derrick I'm pretty sure it would have been better with any of those 3. Defensively I'm pretty sure DJ would have done a much better job on Archie and I doubt Junior or Diener would have done much worse(I actually thought Junior became a much better defender his last 2 years).

I think both sides tend to go to extremes in this argument.......IMO..Derrick is not good enough...unfortunately we do not have anyone who has proven to be better....So that leaves us where we are.....at 11-9 with a group of guards that aren't good enough........

Let's hope that we are better and more entertaining next year.......bad and boring is a bad combination for fans.....they tend to complain alot when that is what they are left to watch day after day.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I you want to look at the season as one game, sure, you may be right. When you look at it as a whole, we are where we are because the guards are not good enough.

We are where we are for a number of reasons. Inconsistency from Jamil, Todd, and Davante is probably at the top of that list.

It just baffles me that people are so quick to give a pass to the guys we had high expectations for and blame the guys we had low expectations for. Most of the games we lost were lost because guys that needed to show up didn't, more often than not the three I listed above.

Would we be better off if we had better guards that could pick up the slack when Jamil, Davante, and Todd have bad games? Sure. But that doesn't excuse the stars of this team not showing up to play far too often for this team to have consistent success.

[warriorfan4life]

We are where we are for a number of reasons. Inconsistency from Jamil, Todd, and Davante is probably at the top of that list.

It just baffles me that people are so quick to give a pass to the guys we had high expectations for and blame the guys we had low expectations for. Most of the games we lost were lost because guys that needed to show up didn't, more often than not the three I listed above.

Would we be better off if we had better guards that could pick up the slack when Jamil, Davante, and Todd have bad games? Sure. But that doesn't excuse the stars of this team not showing up to play far too often for this team to have consistent success.

I agree with what you're saying Brew, but Todd, Jamil, and Davante are not star level performers. This is no star on this team, and that is what is terribly missing. Jamil and Davante are generally pretty good, and Todd is anything and everything from game to game. I hoped that Jamil could be a Jimmy Butler type all-around star, and Todd and Davante could lead a solid, half-court based offense. It did not happen that way, much to my unfortunate surprise, and this team is a just a couple of steps behind every other Buzz team.

[mufansince72]

We are where we are for a number of reasons. Inconsistency from Jamil, Todd, and Davante is probably at the top of that list.

It just baffles me that people are so quick to give a pass to the guys we had high expectations for and blame the guys we had low expectations for. Most of the games we lost were lost because guys that needed to show up didn't, more often than not the three I listed above.

Would we be better off if we had better guards that could pick up the slack when Jamil, Davante, and Todd have bad games? Sure. But that doesn't excuse the stars of this team not showing up to play far too often for this team to have consistent success.

I'm not excusing anyone. However, the three you mentioned would be better with better guard play. Derrick isn't very skilled at getting Davante the ball where he wants it. I would bet you even two or three of the assists credited to Derrick yesterday were quite generous. Passing the ball to Davante, then Davante backs his guy down and gets a bucket. Cheap assists from a home town scorekeeper.

[Markedman]

See this is what I mean......You want this to be true to justify your opinion of Derrick.

Here is news....You don't need anything to justify your opinion......it is your opinion...you have a right to it.....

Can we just forget this topic?


I'm not excusing anyone. However, the three you mentioned would be better with better guard play. Derrick isn't very skilled at getting Davante the ball where he wants it. I would bet you even two or three of the assists credited to Derrick yesterday were quite generous. Passing the ball to Davante, then Davante backs his guy down and gets a bucket. Cheap assists from a home town scorekeeper.

[kneelb4zerg]

See this is what I mean......You want this to be true to justify your opinion of Derrick.

Here is news....You don't need anything to justify your opinion......it is your opinion...you have a right to it.....

Can we just forget this topic?

[/B]

No kidding. Next thing you will re watch the game and file a formal complaint with the Big East to dock Derrick's stats.

[mufansince72]

See this is what I mean......You want this to be true to justify your opinion of Derrick.

Here is news....You don't need anything to justify your opinion......it is your opinion...you have a right to it.....

Can we just forget this topic?

[/B]

Cool! You are right, it is my opinion, just like Brews opinion is his/hers! No need to beat a dead horse I guess.

[TheSultan]

Cool! You are right, it is my opinion, just like Brews opinion is his/hers! No need to beat a dead horse I guess.


Well, you pretty much seem to go out of your way to discredit everything Derrick does well, and harp on everything he doesn't. Confirmation bias.

I think the biggest problem with Derrick on Saturday is that he played too long. 36 minutes is simply too many and I think his defense suffered for it later on. I also don't think Dawson was *that* bad and should have gotten more like 15 minutes.

[MUMac]

Well, you pretty much seem to go out of your way to discredit everything Derrick does well, and harp on everything he doesn't. Confirmation bias.

I think the biggest problem with Derrick on Saturday is that he played too long. 36 minutes is simply too many and I think his defense suffered for it later on. I also don't think Dawson was *that* bad and should have gotten more like 15 minutes.

I agree and that was my point after the game. Dawson needed more than 8 and Derrick less than 36. I was not advocating for a flip of minutes, but some more balance.

[Nukem2]

I agree and that was my point after the game. Dawson needed more than 8 and Derrick less than 36. I was not advocating for a flip of minutes, but some more balance.I would agree with that take as well. The one thing I would add is that Buzz should probably limit the minutes that Derrick and Jake play with the jumbo lineup (or, conversely, limit the jumbo lineup to situations). Again Saturday, MU had a slow start against a quality opponent leading to the recurring scenario of falling behind and catching up and falling behind and catching up.........

[Goose85]

I would agree with that take as well. The one thing I would add is that Buzz should probably limit the minutes that Derrick and Jake play with the jumbo lineup (or, conversely, limit the jumbo lineup to situations). Again Saturday, MU had a slow start against a quality opponent leading to the recurring scenario of falling behind and catching up and falling behind and catching up.........

I would like to see Jake get more minutes along side Mayo. Everyone complains that Jake isn't shooting, but I rarely see any multiple screens being set to get Jake a shot. Novak generally needed screens to get shots off too (not trying to compare the two, just the concept).

I usually defer to the idea that Buzz knows what players are supposed to be doing on the court, and is playing who he feels are the best options to accomplish the game plan. I love Burton, but at this point he allows far more points than he could score. Shore up the D and he will get time. Dawson has potential as well, but in the limited minutes he played on Sat, he was absolutely torched on D. Others were as well, but Buzz will defer to Derrick when he needs defense unless others show more on that end.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I agree and that was my point after the game. Dawson needed more than 8 and Derrick less than 36. I was not advocating for a flip of minutes, but some more balance.

I really think Derrick getting 25-28 and Dawson getting 12-15 would be a good balance. Ride Dawson when he's hot, but make sure Derrick is rested enough to keep up with the opposition, especially a team like 'Nova that has a deep backcourt.

[mufansince72]

I really think Derrick getting 25-28 and Dawson getting 12-15 would be a good balance. Ride Dawson when he's hot, but make sure Derrick is rested enough to keep up with the opposition, especially a team like 'Nova that has a deep backcourt.

At this point I have more confidence in Dawson improving defensively, than I do of Derrick improving offensively. At the very least, with tournament hopes most likely dashed, they should get approximately the same amount of playing time.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Derrick doesn't need to improve offensively to be efficient. We had one of our best offensive performances Saturday and Derrick was on the court most of the game. Why is this point so hard to grasp? Jesus, it's like points are the only metric some people see. We had a great offensive performance, Derrick was a big part of that, but because he didn't do the scoring, it may as well not have happened. Seriously, WTF is wrong that people are not grasping that under some circumstances, such as 'Nova guarding Derrick man-to-man all game, he is going to excel at running the offense? No, that's not always the case, but it sure as hell was Saturday. Are people so biased against Derrick that they can't see there are a ton of positives to his game, even on offense?

My god, most of the people who criticized Dawson were quick to praise him for his excellent performance at Georgetown. I was one of them. Why are people so pig-headed that they can't do the same for Derrick when he has a good offensive game?

[DCwarrior]

Derrick doesn't need to improve offensively to be efficient. We had one of our best offensive performances Saturday and Derrick was on the court most of the game. Why is this point so hard to grasp? Jesus, it's like points are the only metric some people see. We had a great offensive performance, Derrick was a big part of that, but because he didn't do the scoring, it may as well not have happened. Seriously, WTF is wrong that people are not grasping that under some circumstances, such as 'Nova guarding Derrick man-to-man all game, he is going to excel at running the offense? No, that's not always the case, but it sure as hell was Saturday. Are people so biased against Derrick that they can't see there are a ton of positives to his game, even on offense?

My god, most of the people who criticized Dawson were quick to praise him for his excellent performance at Georgetown. I was one of them. Why are people so pig-headed that they can't do the same for Derrick when he has a good offensive game?

You have pretty low expectations of a starting point guard in a major D-1 program if you consider that a very good game for Derrick. 2 points, missing the front end of one-and-one late in a game, and getting continually burned by the opponents point guard on defense is not a great game in my opinion. I'll give you that he didn't turn the ball over much and he had some good entry passes into Gardner for assists, but we need more productivity out of the point. What Nova's PG did should be considered a very good game from a PG.

A good PG has to be able to shoot it decently, break down the defense with penetration and find open shooters, make free throws, and want the ball and be able to make a play at the end of the shot clock or toward the end of a game. Derrick does none of these things. He basically brings the ball up court and tries to pass it to someone else right away. He's a solid backup who can play good D in limited minutes, but unfortunately he's been forced to start and play more minutes than he should.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Are you not reading the rest of these threads, or simply not watching the game?


You have pretty low expectations of a starting point guard in a major D-1 program if you consider that a very good game for Derrick. 2 points,

Derrick scored 6 points. I don't feel scoring is the only (or even best) metric of determining how a point guard plays, but if you're going to bash a guy's lack of scoring, at least get it right.


missing the front end of one-and-one late in a game,

Uhh...so a missed free throw equates to a bad game? Too bad our best offensive player, Davante, missed more free throws in that one game than he had in the entire Big East season to date. But yes, let's pile on the guy who shoots 50% from the line when we know that's not his strength or the reason he's on the court.


and getting continually burned by the opponents point guard on defense is not a great game in my opinion.

Derrick was very rarely guarding Arcidiacono. That assignment mostly fell to Mayo. If you want to criticize his defense, point more to what he didn't do on Chennault, or maybe cherry pick the blow-by on what should have been the game-winning play if not for the refs botching the charge call. But the people who like to bash Derrick rarely like to let facts get in the way of the narrative, so yes, Derrick did HORRIBLE on Archie.


I'll give you that he didn't turn the ball over much and he had some good entry passes into Gardner for assists, but we need more productivity out of the point.

Derrick accounted for an additional 5 possessions with his rebounds, 6 points he scored himself, and another 15 points on his assists (one three for Mayo). So that's 21 points and 5 possessions. In addition, we averaged 1.18 ppp, well over our season average of 1.08. That's with Derrick at the point. So even though not everything Derrick did on offense will show up on the scoresheet, the team as a whole was very productive. And shouldn't the credit for that go to the point guard? Or is that only when John Dawson is playing?


What Nova's PG did should be considered a very good game from a PG.

Yeah. Duh. But Derrick isn't Ryan Arcidiacono. I'm not going to judge Derrick on Archie's game any more than I'm going to judge him on Derrick Rose or Magic Johnson's game. I'm going to judge Derrick on Derrick and on the needs of this team. 6 points (yes, 6), 7 assists, and 5 rebounds is a good game. Especially when he only turns the ball over 3 times (and that's one of his 3 worst turnover games this year). Derrick played well, the offense was great. The problems were not on the offensive end. If we could have pulled down defensive rebounds or gotten a stop, we would have won. We didn't. So if you're going to piss and whine, why not complain about the end that was the problem, which was the defensive end? Oh, right...because Arcidiacono had a field day on Derrick.



A good PG has to be able to shoot it decently

Not necessarily. It helps, but it's not a necessity, especially if there are other guys on the court that can score.


break down the defense with penetration and find open shooters,

They don't have to break down the defense with penetration, but they do need a way to break down the defense. Derrick has grown this season into a solid driver and his 3.8 apg are equal to what Junior had as a senior last year. So it looks like he can find open shooters.


make free throws,

So I guess Dominic James wasn't a good point guard, because he was a worse free throw shooter than Derrick is.


and want the ball and be able to make a play at the end of the shot clock or toward the end of a game.

Not the case at all. This isn't a one man team. I have issues when Derrick has the ball and no one to pass to late in the shot clock because that's not his role. We have other guys that are that type of player (Mayo) so make sure they have the ball. I also wonder, if Derrick had been able to get the floater to go over Bachynski and we won that game, would people have a radically different opinion of him? Probably not...everyone's opinion was already made up.


Derrick does none of these things. He basically brings the ball up court and tries to pass it to someone else right away.

He does some of them, but doesn't need to do all of them. And if you really think that's his role, you are willfully blind. You don't average 3.8 assists by passing it as soon as you cross the half court line and hiding for the remaining 28 seconds of the possession.


He's a solid backup who can play good D in limited minutes, but unfortunately he's been forced to start and play more minutes than he should.

Ideally, yes, we would have someone better. We don't. He is without a doubt the best and most complete point guard we have. Maybe that's not saying much, but all this hand-wringing over the issue doesn't accomplish anything other than making people even more irritated without just cause, and moreso seems to lead to posters making things up and refusing to change their opinions despite the facts no longer supporting what they believed on November 16.

[mufansince72]

Again Brew, try looking at the season body of work, instead of one game. He had a good game for Derrick! Unfortunately, through no fault of his own, a good game for Derrick is not good enough to win consistently in the Big East. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I feel the same way about Jake Thomas if it makes you feel any better. I don't think he is good enough to be a starter in the Big East either. Both those guys should be role players. It's not their fault they are starting, but the fact remains they are, and they are not good enough to win consistently.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Again Brew, try looking at the season body of work, instead of one game. He had a good game for Derrick! Unfortunately, through no fault of his own, a good game for Derrick is not good enough to win consistently in the Big East. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I feel the same way about Jake Thomas if it makes you feel any better. I don't think he is good enough to be a starter in the Big East either. Both those guys should be role players. It's not their fault they are starting, but the fact remains they are, and they are not good enough to win consistently.

Because the season body of work is a collection of single games. And for the most part, when we've lost, it's been a product of our best players not stepping up, not because Derrick didn't do what he was supposed to do. Interestingly, when other guys wilt, Derrick often is the one stepping up. He was one of if not our best player against Arizona State, San Diego State, and Butler, but despite him lifting his game the rest of the team couldn't do the same. The irony is most of the games people complain about what Derrick did or didn't do are games we won rather than games we lost.

We have quite a few wins when Derrick is mediocre. The problem is that when Derrick steps up and plays like a legitimate high major point guard, the rest of the team fails to match his effort and we end up losing. If we could get the same effort and tenacity out of the guys with more talent than Derrick has, we'd have a much better record. And yet he seems to take 80% of the blame.

The games people have problems with are the losses. So let's look at them, with green being good Derrick, red being bad Derrick, and black being neutral Derrick:

Ohio State: Derrick wasn't very good, but neither was anyone else. Definitely a team loss. He's as much to blame as anyone, but not sure he's more to blame.
Arizona State: Derrick was arguably our best player. Great performance and not at all Derrick's fault we lost. Poor positioning by other guys forced him to drive at Bachynski for the tying basket, which was always a losing proposition.
San Diego State: Derrick was playing very well until he took the injury. Probably shouldn't have played as many second half minutes as he did, but if he stays healthy there's a good chance we win.
Wisconsin: One of the lowlights of Derrick's season. I'd put that one on him.
New Mexico: Our biggest problem was not adjusting to Cullen Neal and the massive FT disparity. Derrick's 4 fouls didn't help, but as a team we made a lot of mistakes. Like the OSU game, a team loss.
Creighton: Dumpster fire. Jamil's turnovers, Todd's awful night, but Derrick only getting 1 assist while trying to force things too much didn't help at all.
Xavier: Solid performance with 5:0 A:T ratio, and was nice to see the spread in minutes give John-John a chance. We lost this because we got mauled on the boards. Our guards outrebounded our frontcourt 13-7. If the bigs do their job as well as Derrick and the guards did, we win.
Butler: Ironically, I was disappointed with Derrick this game, but most people were happy with him. Why? Well, I didn't like the turnovers, but everyone else liked the scoring. Regardless, Derrick did a bit of everything but our SGs combined for 3/18 from the floor. Can't blame that on Derrick.
Villanova: I've reiterated time and time again the past couple days that Derrick had a good game. He did. You don't seem to be arguing it, more saying I'm looking at one game and not the season. Bottom line, 'Nova isn't on Derrick.

So if you look at the losses, I'd say that 2 were Derrick's fault, 2 were games where the team and coaching staff were to blame, and 5 where we probably could have won if the rest of the team had played more like Derrick. Now do you see why I look at individual games? Because the games that people get up in arms about, by and large, aren't Derrick's fault. No, a good game by Derrick isn't enough to win in the Big East. And THAT is the problem. Derrick has a good game, the rest of the team plays like poo, we lose. So maybe it's time to look at the guys that are playing like poo in our losses rather than the guy who's upping his game when things get tough.

[mufansince72]

Because the season body of work is a collection of single games. And for the most part, when we've lost, it's been a product of our best players not stepping up, not because Derrick didn't do what he was supposed to do. Interestingly, when other guys wilt, Derrick often is the one stepping up. He was one of if not our best player against Arizona State, San Diego State, and Butler, but despite him lifting his game the rest of the team couldn't do the same. The irony is most of the games people complain about what Derrick did or didn't do are games we won rather than games we lost.

We have quite a few wins when Derrick is mediocre. The problem is that when Derrick steps up and plays like a legitimate high major point guard, the rest of the team fails to match his effort and we end up losing. If we could get the same effort and tenacity out of the guys with more talent than Derrick has, we'd have a much better record. And yet he seems to take 80% of the blame.

The games people have problems with are the losses. So let's look at them, with green being good Derrick, red being bad Derrick, and black being neutral Derrick:

Ohio State: Derrick wasn't very good, but neither was anyone else. Definitely a team loss. He's as much to blame as anyone, but not sure he's more to blame.
Arizona State: Derrick was arguably our best player. Great performance and not at all Derrick's fault we lost. Poor positioning by other guys forced him to drive at Bachynski for the tying basket, which was always a losing proposition.
San Diego State: Derrick was playing very well until he took the injury. Probably shouldn't have played as many second half minutes as he did, but if he stays healthy there's a good chance we win.
Wisconsin: One of the lowlights of Derrick's season. I'd put that one on him.
New Mexico: Our biggest problem was not adjusting to Cullen Neal and the massive FT disparity. Derrick's 4 fouls didn't help, but as a team we made a lot of mistakes. Like the OSU game, a team loss.
Creighton: Dumpster fire. Jamil's turnovers, Todd's awful night, but Derrick only getting 1 assist while trying to force things too much didn't help at all.
Xavier: Solid performance with 5:0 A:T ratio, and was nice to see the spread in minutes give John-John a chance. We lost this because we got mauled on the boards. Our guards outrebounded our frontcourt 13-7. If the bigs do their job as well as Derrick and the guards did, we win.
Butler: Ironically, I was disappointed with Derrick this game, but most people were happy with him. Why? Well, I didn't like the turnovers, but everyone else liked the scoring. Regardless, Derrick did a bit of everything but our SGs combined for 3/18 from the floor. Can't blame that on Derrick.
Villanova: I've reiterated time and time again the past couple days that Derrick had a good game. He did. You don't seem to be arguing it, more saying I'm looking at one game and not the season. Bottom line, 'Nova isn't on Derrick.

So if you look at the losses, I'd say that 2 were Derrick's fault, 2 were games where the team and coaching staff were to blame, and 5 where we probably could have won if the rest of the team had played more like Derrick. Now do you see why I look at individual games? Because the games that people get up in arms about, by and large, aren't Derrick's fault. No, a good game by Derrick isn't enough to win in the Big East. And THAT is the problem. Derrick has a good game, the rest of the team plays like poo, we lose. So maybe it's time to look at the guys that are playing like poo in our losses rather than the guy who's upping his game when things get tough.

Obviously, I don't see it your way at all! I'm not a stat junkie like you, but I bet you would be hard pressed to find more than a game or two, where our starting backcourt equalled or exceeded the production of the opponent.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Obviously, I don't see it your way at all! I'm not a stat junkie like you, but I bet you would be hard pressed to find more than a game or two, where our starting backcourt equalled or exceeded the production of the opponent.

A couple things...first, I'm looking at Derrick, not Jake. Many of those games listed would have gone far differently had Jake shown up. If Mayo could produce away from home I think Jake would see a lot less time and we'd have a lot more wins. But basketball is a team game, and one of the fallacies many people fall into is looking at individual matchups in a team game. It doesn't matter if Derrick outdoes Jahii Carson, it matters if Marquette outdoes Arizona State. Do we often have a negative disparity at point guard? Yes. If we have Craft, or Carson, or Thames, or Williams, or any number of the PGs on teams that beat us, we would have a better record. I won't disagree with that.

However we have mismatches in our favor at other positions. Many of those guys don't have a guy with the all around game of a Jamil Wilson. With the offensive prowess in the paint of a Davante Gardner. With the shot-blocking ability of a Chris Otule. So why are we losing all these games? It's not because Derrick isn't stepping up, it's because we aren't able to exploit the mismatches in our favor. That's why I keep harping on the guys that are supposed to be our best players. When Jamil, Todd, and Davante don't get the job done, we aren't going to win. If Derrick plays his best, it helps, but it isn't good enough to win. If those guys play their best, we can compete with anyone in the country. Get some consistency out of them and this is a completely different season.

This is why I am so irritated with Marquette's fanbase this season. It seems a sizable majority has decided that despite facts flying in the face of the argument, Derrick Wilson is the root of all that ails us. That we lose because of Derrick. Yet as I pointed out above, more often than not we lose in spite of Derrick playing well. I've been pounding that drum for months but people are still colored by Derrick's (abysmal) first three games of the season. People aren't paying attention to the reality of our problem, they are paying attention to their perception of our problem, and all those inaccurate perceptions have led to the wrong guy bearing the brunt of the blame.

If we lose, it's Derrick's fault. It doesn't matter if he plays well or poorly, we are told that he is to blame and things would have been better if only Magic Dawson had been given 30 minutes, never mind that no freshman in the Buzz era has played even close to 30 minutes per game. If we win, Derrick should have been better. Never mind that he did the things necessary to win, he's still not good enough. I've seen a lot of players go through Marquette, and never seen someone so scapegoated as Derrick Wilson. A handful of people got it in their minds after Ohio State that Derrick = bad, and they've spewed it out so repeatedly that they have everyone believing it, even when it's obviously not the case. The kid could cure cancer and someone would say that John Dawson would have done it in less time. It's ridiculous.

[Markedman]

People don't tend to like point guards who can't shoot or create for teammates. I am not a fan of Derrick but we have other problems as well......

Nobody is changing anybodys mind here.........

[mufansince72]

A couple things...first, I'm looking at Derrick, not Jake. Many of those games listed would have gone far differently had Jake shown up. If Mayo could produce away from home I think Jake would see a lot less time and we'd have a lot more wins. But basketball is a team game, and one of the fallacies many people fall into is looking at individual matchups in a team game. It doesn't matter if Derrick outdoes Jahii Carson, it matters if Marquette outdoes Arizona State. Do we often have a negative disparity at point guard? Yes. If we have Craft, or Carson, or Thames, or Williams, or any number of the PGs on teams that beat us, we would have a better record. I won't disagree with that.

However we have mismatches in our favor at other positions. Many of those guys don't have a guy with the all around game of a Jamil Wilson. With the offensive prowess in the paint of a Davante Gardner. With the shot-blocking ability of a Chris Otule. So why are we losing all these games? It's not because Derrick isn't stepping up, it's because we aren't able to exploit the mismatches in our favor. That's why I keep harping on the guys that are supposed to be our best players. When Jamil, Todd, and Davante don't get the job done, we aren't going to win. If Derrick plays his best, it helps, but it isn't good enough to win. If those guys play their best, we can compete with anyone in the country. Get some consistency out of them and this is a completely different season.

This is why I am so irritated with Marquette's fanbase this season. It seems a sizable majority has decided that despite facts flying in the face of the argument, Derrick Wilson is the root of all that ails us. That we lose because of Derrick. Yet as I pointed out above, more often than not we lose in spite of Derrick playing well. I've been pounding that drum for months but people are still colored by Derrick's (abysmal) first three games of the season. People aren't paying attention to the reality of our problem, they are paying attention to their perception of our problem, and all those inaccurate perceptions have led to the wrong guy bearing the brunt of the blame.

If we lose, it's Derrick's fault. It doesn't matter if he plays well or poorly, we are told that he is to blame and things would have been better if only Magic Dawson had been given 30 minutes, never mind that no freshman in the Buzz era has played even close to 30 minutes per game. If we win, Derrick should have been better. Never mind that he did the things necessary to win, he's still not good enough. I've seen a lot of players go through Marquette, and never seen someone so scapegoated as Derrick Wilson. A handful of people got it in their minds after Ohio State that Derrick = bad, and they've spewed it out so repeatedly that they have everyone believing it, even when it's obviously not the case. The kid could cure cancer and someone would say that John Dawson would have done it in less time. It's ridiculous.

I guess you have a different opinion than I do of what playing well means! You are setting the bar so low! I'm done arguing with you about this though. The team has many issues, but they all start at the point.

[Markedman]

Plus minus for Nova.....obviously an imperfect stat but Jake and Otule fared the worst....

http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/01/25/villanova-94-marquette-85