Meet Vander Blue --- Celtics Blog

[Djgoldnboy]

Good article on VB (http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/1/22/5334288/meet-vander-blue-boston-celtics-marquette-golden-eagles-nba-dleague-tank-signing-scouting)

[unclejohn]

That is a great and complete article. It makes me wonder what Vander might have accomplished with another year of strength and conditioning training, and a year clearly being the guy in the spotlight. Well, as I have said in the past, it was his decision to make. I hope it works out well for him in the end.

[mufansince72]

He doesn't look like he lacks in upper body strength to me.

[GOMU1104]

That is a great and complete article. It makes me wonder what Vander might have accomplished with another year of strength and conditioning training, and a year clearly being the guy in the spotlight. Well, as I have said in the past, it was his decision to make. I hope it works out well for him in the end.

You act like there's no S & C coaches in the NBA or NBDL.

[TheSultan]

He doesn't look like he lacks in upper body strength to me.


Compared to the typical NBA 2-guard he does.

[MUMac]

You act like there's no S & C coaches in the NBA or NBDL.

He was not with the NBA or NBDL that long. Just before training camp with the 6ers and a couple of days with the Celtics. NBDL was not that long either. He would have had full time with MU's S&C coaches (I am not debating the topic for UJ, just pointing out).

I have a belief, but there will be no definitive proof if Vander made a mistake. Last years draft was weak and this years is supposed to be very strong. I would guess that played into his taking the chance. I would love to have him on this team, but since he is not, all I can do is cheer for him to succeed in the NBA.

[GOMU1104]

He was not with the NBA or NBDL that long. Just before training camp with the 6ers and a couple of days with the Celtics. NBDL was not that long either. He would have had full time with MU's S&C coaches (I am not debating the topic for UJ, just pointing out).

I have a belief, but there will be no definitive proof if Vander made a mistake. Last years draft was weak and this years is supposed to be very strong. I would guess that played into his taking the chance. I would love to have him on this team, but since he is not, all I can do is cheer for him to succeed in the NBA.

I understand. I just feel like there is, for some on reason, an underlying belief that the only place guys can improve/get stronger is in college.

Some people believe once a player leaves college they cant improve, they cant get better, etc. There are better development coaches and better S & C programs in the NBA than in college.

[IWB]

They will actually improve more once in the pros because they don't have classes, studying, exams, papers to write etc, all they do is work on hoops full time as that is their job.

The difference is, especially in a situation like Vander's, is the overall product. Now he looks like he needs a bit more mass, and a more refined game. Fine, he can work on that, but hard to when you are bouncing from Philly, to NBDL, to Israel, to NBDL, to Boston. Very inconsistent workouts, coaches, diet etc. Had he stayed at MU he would have had full and constant training, development etc. He would be a more refined, finished product, making him more attractive to NBA GMs, not someone who needs time.

Remember, Van is a year younger than those in his class. Unlike Mayo who is older, Van is a full year younger than those around him.

The NBA drafts on potential, they have to. But when it comes to free agents and undrafted players, they look at 'how can you help us now'?

Look at buying bananas. Seriously. Do you buy the green ones or the yellow ones? Sure, the green ones will turn yellow if they sit in your house for 4-5 days, but you want to eat a banana now, right? The yellow banana is more complete, and ready to help you now.

Had Vander stayed, he would be a more complete player, physically, mentally and skills-wise. Everyone will get better once in the pros, but it is all about your entry into the league, and Vander could have used another year.

[Djgoldnboy]

Just watching that highlight reel makes the mind wander again as to what type of stats he could have on the team this year. I'm glad he's getting a chance in the bigs, but I think he could have guaranteed money had he stayed for this year.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Not to discount Todd Smith, and I fully understand the difficulty of trying to gain upper body strength while living the vagrant life, but having 3 years here, would Vander have gained more physically staying at Marquette than he would getting training in the pros? I have to imagine Philly and Boston have pretty good S&C programs themselves.

[TheSultan]

Not to discount Todd Smith, and I fully understand the difficulty of trying to gain upper body strength while living the vagrant life, but having 3 years here, would Vander have gained more physically staying at Marquette than he would getting training in the pros? I have to imagine Philly and Boston have pretty good S&C programs themselves.


But I think what IWB is saying is unless he sticks with one of those teams for an extended period of time, he really isn't going to benefit from a consistent and planned S&C program.

[IWB]

brew - without realizing it, I think you may have answered your own question....

"I have to imagine Philly and Boston have pretty good S&C programs themselves."

Yes, they have great S&C programs. But PHILLY CUT HIM. They didn't think he was good enough or ready yet. No team drafted him despite his performance in the summer league, despite the many workouts because they didn't think he was good enough or ready yet.

Philly Cut him on Oct 24th. So on that day, his S&C ended. He then signed with Isreal at the end of October and headed over immediately. In talking to players that play over seas, S&C coaches are pretty much non-existent. He was there until mid December and then cut. So he comes back home, and was likely working out on his own unless his agent set him up with someone.

A month later he catches on with the Delaware 87ers. Now he is with their S&C coach for a month before he catches on with Boston.

Keep in mind that many S&C coaches do things very differently.

Philly S&C for one month.
Isreal with little to no S&C for 1 1/2 months.
Delaware S&C for one month
Now on to Boston.....

I think it is safe to say that one solid year of consistent S&C work with the same program, as well as training with the same coaches for a year would do any player a lot of good.

In the end he got a 10 day contract, so he 'wins', but it is a valid argument that another year would have been great for his development.

[mufansince72]

Compared to the typical NBA 2-guard he does.

Just looked pretty buff in the photo. I never really thought his strength was the problem, I just never thought he was good at finishing consistently. Maybe it is strength, but I always thought it was touch around the basket!

[IWB]

Not strength necessarily, but overall body mass - the same problem that guys like Brandon Jennings have.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

The consistency may have helped, I guess I'm just not convinced staying would have been good for Blue.

The odds are he was always going to need time to catch on. Even an All-American season wouldn't have guaranteed he got drafted, ask Scottie Reynolds how that works out. Van had 3 full years with Todd. Another year wouldn't have hurt, but I'm not sure it would have helped much either. It's not like Van was going to be another Jae or DJO physically, and with his quickness being one of his best attributes, that type of strength program (despite the author's claim that he needs upper body strength) wasn't necessarily going to be in his best interest as a player.

Obviously Blue wasn't a perfect prospect or he'd have been drafted. But he succeeded where he needed to. He kept up his defense, improved his finishing at the rim, improved his jumper, and physically became a man. Being a year older may have hurt his chances. If this 10-day is his entire career, it'll be easy to criticize him. But if he can turn this into an actual career, it will be hard to say he made a mistake. Clearly it would be better for Marquette, Buzz, and us as fans to have him here this year, but that doesn't mean he made the wrong decision.