Shaka Smart says.......

[MUAlphaBangura]

a BIG(emphasis on big) factor in the game tonight between Indiana and Kentucky will be how the refs call the game. Said it will ultimately determine how each team's strategy will play out. Said this for the whole world to hear on the pregame show on TBS. Amazing that a head coach of a final four team thinks that refs can be a determining factor in the outcome of a game. According to some, he would be considered a "loser" for speaking as such.

[MUMac]

Yeah, I just do not understand why comments and criticism of officiating is whining yet we can tear a new one into our PG or Vander Blue and that is constructive. Are not officials subject to criticism?

The way they call the game makes a difference. Pointing that out is met with derision. I just don't get that.

[Markedman]

I think a coach saying it before a game is just an observation. It doesn't mean the refs are good or bad only that it can change strategies or benefit one team as oppossed to another depending on their style.

I saw all the MU players and Buzz in the interviews after the game. None mentioned the refs. DJO said emphatically...."Florida just outplayed us" DWADE said "Florida was the better team tonight"

Every fan base can find calls to complain about during a game....I thought the non flagrant call was ridculous considering they took the time to review it. If they wouldn;t have I would have just chalked it up to the fact that they missed one. Unfortunate but it happens.

For every bad call a fan sees that hurts the opponent he sees 5 that hurt his own team. It's just the inherent bias that we all have.

I thought MU could have gotten more calls going to the hoop then they got last night but you have to adjust and do the best you can.

Bottom line you aren't going to win a sweet 16 game shooting 30% vey often.......

[Gato78]

Looking back on last night, of all the things that went bad, that non-call on the elbow to the head on Jamil was a killer. If they call that when it happens, we shoot 2 fts and get the ball--we were only down 6 at the time. Instead, nothing is called and DJO gets whistled and we go down 8 rather than possibly down 2. They blew that call when it happened--ref was right there. Then they look at it on the monitor and get it wrong again. Everyone in the country knows that was wrong except the three guys getting paid to get it right. If we have a normal shooting night it is irrelevant but we had a terrible shooting night which made that call somewhat determinative of the outcome.

[MUMac]

I think a coach saying it before a game is just an observation. It doesn't mean the refs are good or bad only that it can change strategies or benefit one team as oppossed to another depending on their style.

I saw all the MU players and Buzz in the interviews after the game. None mentioned the refs. DJO said emphatically...."Florida just outplayed us" DWADE said "Florida was the better team tonight"

Every fan base can find calls to complain about during a game....I thought the non flagrant call was ridculous considering they took the time to review it. If they wouldn;t have I would have just chalked it up to the fact that they missed one. Unfortunate but it happens.

For every bad call a fan sees that hurts the opponent he sees 5 that hurt his own team. It's just the inherent bias that we all have.

I thought MU could have gotten more calls going to the hoop then they got last night but you have to adjust and do the best you can.

Bottom line you aren't going to win a sweet 16 game shooting 30% vey often.......
I was not speaking to last night's game, but a general comment. Any comment/criticism about officiating brings a response such as yours. Others just say to quit whining. Have some class or something to that end.

As to the comments from the players and coaches, even if it was blatant poor officiating, would you expect them to say as much? No. They would have commented the same way. Players and coaches do not publicly criticize the officials. Coaches can get fined, players disciplined. That is one of the reasons why.

I believe there are some officials who are just plain bad (Valentine is an example - and I said that prior to yesterday's game and my opinion has nothing to do with yesterday's game). I also believe there are some terrific officials who have off days. Why would their professional be any different than any other? But if you comment about that, you are whining.

[Markedman]

I just don't think what Smart said proves anything other then it matters how officials call a game.

[MUAlphaBangura]

My interpretation of Shaka's comment is that officials are a significant factor in a particular game, so much so that they can determine how a coach coaches his team. Of course he wasn't commenting on if they are good or bad as he(or we) are unable to determine that until the game starts. That is when us fans, through our analysis as the game game proceeds, form opinions on the officials. If you watch enough ball, you can't help but make judgements on certain officials and how they call games. Nobody can convince me that officials don't have biases and agendas.

[Gato78]

We all know that Bryan Kersey hates MUAlphaBangura. Best that Kersey does not officiate Marquette games as a result.

[CaribouJim]

I wouldn't say biases and agendas, but in general I would say ineptness. Jay Bilas was on the Charlie Rose Show a couple nights ago talking about the tourney and he was hammering the refs. I was half asleep, but he wasn't happy about the quality and consistency. It's like they can't keep up with the athleticism of the players nowadays...are often out of position...are too easily intimidated by the iconic coaches...will call a foul when there is very, very little or no contact and don't call a foul when someone gets their head handed to them. For example, these players are such good athletes that they often are contorting their bodies to find space to get a shot off and they lose their balance and fall when there is zero contact - sure enough their goes the whistle. I actually thought DJO was the benefactor of that many times this year. Some are just flat out too old - we all know a couple in particular.

[Gato78]

Bilas also claims there is far more contact in college hoops than the NBA.

[MUAlphaBangura]

There is a reason you want Higgins and Burr when you're on the road--- it is well known(even admitted by Higgins) that they will make a call against a home team with a crazy crowd. I'm pretty sure they get their rocks off. Isn't that why they wear black pants???? Tell me that is not an agenda.

[MUAlphaBangura]

We all know that Bryan Kersey hates MUAlphaBangura. Best that Kersey does not officiate Marquette games as a result.

Hate is such a harsh word!!

[mufansince72]

a BIG(emphasis on big) factor in the game tonight between Indiana and Kentucky will be how the refs call the game. Said it will ultimately determine how each team's strategy will play out. Said this for the whole world to hear on the pregame show on TBS. Amazing that a head coach of a final four team thinks that refs can be a determining factor in the outcome of a game. According to some, he would be considered a "loser" for speaking as such.

Refs can determine the outcome of a game. They didn't last night. It's been a long time since I felt refs made a difference in an MU game. I would probably have to go back to last season to find one. Fans that consistently whine about officials sound like they are making excuses. Dodds is the biggest complainer of them all. You are catching up to him though.

[MUMac]

I wouldn't say biases and agendas, but in general I would say ineptness. Jay Bilas was on the Charlie Rose Show a couple nights ago talking about the tourney and he was hammering the refs. I was half asleep, but he wasn't happy about the quality and consistency. It's like they can't keep up with the athleticism of the players nowadays...are often out of position...are too easily intimidated by the iconic coaches...will call a foul when there is very, very little or no contact and don't call a foul when someone gets their head handed to them. For example, these players are such good athletes that they often are contorting their bodies to find space to get a shot off and they lose their balance and fall when there is zero contact - sure enough their goes the whistle. I actually thought DJO was the benefactor of that many times this year. Some are just flat out too old - we all know a couple in particular.

Bilas complaining about officiating? What a whiner.

I agree completely with his comments and the one you added about DJO. What frustrates me about officiating is the inconsistency and anticipation. Regarding the latter, I do not respect an official who anticipates contact and makes the call because of that. If it is not there, do not call it. Inconsistency, to me, is what Bilas is commenting on. We saw it in the Nova game (as an example). They called any touch foul and let a blood letting go on the inside. Gardner's injury was not a foul in that game? The way they called that game?

Thursday, DJO get's called for a glancing blow on the top of the head (I believe the correct call, by the way) yet the elbow to Wilson (right in front of the official) is allowed. Inconsistency.

But to some (including a couple in this thread) that is whining. Give me a break.

[mufansince72]

No one is saying the officiating is perfect. In my view most games are officiated evenly. Unless you are visiting the Kohl hole:rolleyes: I consider constantly focusing on officiating in all of these threads as making excuses. How come no one complains about officials when we win? How come no one complains about officiating when they miss calls that go in our favor?

There was a close game MU was in recently where DJO took about four steps to the basket and should have been called for travelling. Changed the momentum of that game. I didn't see any MU fans complaining about officiating on that play!

I will say this for about the 10th time. Officiating did not cause MU to shoot 30.8%. Officiating did not cause MU to miss layups. Officiating did not cause the lack of paint touches. Officiating did not cause MU to take quick jumpers. If MU shoots a decent percentage, you are not complaining about officiating.

You guys may think that you are not blaming officiating for the loss, but that is what it sounds like to the average person when you consistently harp on it. Now if you start complaining about how bad the officiating is after every MU victory, maybe I will change my opinion.

[MUAlphaBangura]

We heard you the 1st nine times that the officials didn't cause us to shoot 30% . You apparently haven't heard us say that the officials didn't cause us to lose the game. Do you really believe we don't notice it when there is a bad call in MU's favor? Of course we're not going to b!tch about it. But we certainly acknowledge it. MUMac was absolutely correct when he called out officials for their inconsistent calls. I'll add- poor calls, anticipating calls, make up calls and evening out fouls before the end of halves. They also seem to make a lot of calls on bench players that they would never make on starters. Many officials seem to think that they should be a part of the show and go waaayyyy overboard in their actions. Personally, I think officials should be held to a higher standard. Our players and coaches work way too hard to deal with such poor officiating. They deserve better. You can call me and Dodds "whiners" and "excuse makers" all you want. When we are making our comments, we are criticizing paid professionals. You, on the other hand, would be considered an A-hole in my book for your criticism of 18-22 year old kids who are giving their all for our school( Vander playing his usual crappy offensive game,Junior being sloppy and throwing the ball away, commiting stupid fouls, etc., etc., etc.) I'll be a whiner any day of the week.

[TedBaxter]

Anyone else as impressed with Shaka Smart as a new analyst as I am? Presents himself very well and I can understand why he's a hot commodity with people he has worked with and for in the past like the Illinois AD. I'll tell you what. If Buzz decided to move on, I'd take Shaka Smart at MU in a heartbeat and his style of play would work well at Marquette.

[mufansince72]

Just call it like I see it. If you are going to praise players for playing great, there should also be criticism when they play poor. So in your world, we can complain about the officiating, say that players are making great plays, but we can't be upset when same player can't execute a layup more than 30% of the time. I also said that Vander is a great rebounder for a guard, plays great defense, and has become the most reliable free throw shooter on the team. I also said that he is so damn good at getting to the rim, that I don't care if he ever develops a consistent outside shot because he can score six more points a game by making a layup. So if that is throwing someone under the bus, so be it! Better than crying about a loss because what you perceive to be crappy officiating.

[CaribouJim]

Anyone else as impressed with Shaka Smart as a new analyst as I am? Presents himself very well and I can understand why he's a hot commodity with people he has worked with and for in the past like the Illinois AD. I'll tell you what. If Buzz decided to move on, I'd take Shaka Smart at MU in a heartbeat and his style of play would work well at Marquette.

I thought he was off the charts good - best guest coach analyst that I can remember - seems like a regular guy as well and I too would sanp him up if heaven forbid Buzz departs for whatever reason.

I think Jay Wright is pretty good analyst too - I thoughthe was smoking something when he predicted the UNC/Ohio game would end up being a 1 or 2 point game and so did the panel.

On another tangent from this thread, I thought Harrison Barnes would have been more dominant by now - he's very good, but thought he would be a man amongst boys type of player. Zeller continues to impress however.

[MUMac]

Just call it like I see it. If you are going to praise players for playing great, there should also be criticism when they play poor. So in your world, we can complain about the officiating, say that players are making great plays, but we can't be upset when same player can't execute a layup more than 30% of the time. I also said that Vander is a great rebounder for a guard, plays great defense, and has become the most reliable free throw shooter on the team. I also said that he is so damn good at getting to the rim, that I don't care if he ever develops a consistent outside shot because he can score six more points a game by making a layup. So if that is throwing someone under the bus, so be it! Better than crying about a loss because what you perceive to be crappy officiating.

I have frequently called out officials when MU benefited from their ineptitude. I agree about the play regarding DJO and said it at the time. It was an embarrassment that the official allowed the 4 steps. That is the point. The officiating is getting pretty bad in college basketball. I agree with MUAlphaBangura that the officials try to be the game and should be held to a higher standard.

BTW, the game I criticized the officiating the most this year? MU's win at Nova. The reason for my complaints? The horrendous job and inconsistent calls - which I felt favored MU. I also thought the T's by Breeden were a joke. Again, MU benefited from two of those.

You say we do not complain about officiating when MU wins or it goes in MU's favor. I completely disagree and will throw back at you that you just do not hear it because you don't challenge it or call it whining to which we are compelled to defend our position. That is the way I see it!!!!

[Markedman]

Classic comment by Smart talking about Seth Davis......"He isn't always right...but he's always sure" lol

[mufansince72]

I have frequently called out officials when MU benefited from their ineptitude. I agree about the play regarding DJO and said it at the time. It was an embarrassment that the official allowed the 4 steps. That is the point. The officiating is getting pretty bad in college basketball. I agree with MUAlphaBangura that the officials try to be the game and should be held to a higher standard.

BTW, the game I criticized the officiating the most this year? MU's win at Nova. The reason for my complaints? The horrendous job and inconsistent calls - which I felt favored MU. I also thought the T's by Breeden were a joke. Again, MU benefited from two of those.

You say we do not complain about officiating when MU wins or it goes in MU's favor. I completely disagree and will throw back at you that you just do not hear it because you don't challenge it or call it whining to which we are compelled to defend our position. That is the way I see it!!!!

It's not my intention to call you out MUMAC. It's probably my frustration of reading constant game threads when MU is losing where every other poster is complaining about officials. It just sounds like sour grapes. If you are out there talking about officials and calls during all games, including ones MU is winning, then my description of whiner would not apply to you. Most of the complainers only come out when MU is losing, those are the people I have issue with whining about officiating.

[Gato78]

FWIW I have been talking about bad officiating all year, regardless of wins and losses. This has been the worst year of officiating I have seen in my career as a sports watcher. A lot of it is due to the charge circle which has really screwed the officials up since they are ignoring the actual charge action because they are checking feet. The other factor is the incredible number of games the refs have done. Jim Burr scaled back from the 80s the past few years to 67 this year. John Cahill also cut back from the 80s to 65 this year. Ed Corbett has done 88 games this seaon. Our officials for the Florida game: Mike Reed did 66 games this season; Randall McCall did 78 games this season; and, the great Ted Valentine did 94 games this season--an incredible statistic. Can officials have a big affect on outcomes? Absolutely. Al McGuire raised a whole lot of hell with officials because he believed they were crucial. They are a vitally important to outcomes.

[MUMac]

If you do not think bad officiating impacts a game, watch the Cuse/OSU game. Cuse is getting hosed right now and I am not a Cuse fan, but I guess I am a whiner.:rolleyes:

But, OSU had two series - key ones - where they picked up two fouls (shooting) where they never touched anyone. Again, anticipation by the official - AND THEY WERE WRONG!!!!!!!!

[MUAlphaBangura]

this. Noone can tell me that horrible call on Triche doesn't play a role in this game. From a 3 point play to a possible 5 points for tOSU.

[Markedman]

I don't think it's possible to whine when you don't care who wins.......:D

Since we are all friends here maybe we could just drop this?

Being a ref is a hard job....sometimes they stink and they defintely can impact a game(Sullinger sitting after the phantom 2nd foul today for example).

[ziggysfryboy]

It's not my intention to call you out MUMAC. It's probably my frustration of reading constant game threads when MU is losing where every other poster is complaining about officials. It just sounds like sour grapes. If you are out there talking about officials and calls during all games, including ones MU is winning, then my description of whiner would not apply to you. Most of the complainers only come out when MU is losing, those are the people I have issue with whining about officiating.

Is Valentine your cousin or uncle? :p

[MUMac]

I don't think it's possible to whine when you don't care who wins.......:D
Being a ref is a hard job....sometimes they stink and they defintely can impact a game(Sullinger sitting after the phantom 2nd foul today for example).

I agree completely with both parts of this. The 2nd has been my point, but if I were an OSU fan and said that, you and '72 would have accused me of whining! :)

[mufansince72]

If you do not think bad officiating impacts a game, watch the Cuse/OSU game. Cuse is getting hosed right now and I am not a Cuse fan, but I guess I am a whiner.:rolleyes:

But, OSU had two series - key ones - where they picked up two fouls (shooting) where they never touched anyone. Again, anticipation by the official - AND THEY WERE WRONG!!!!!!!!

I'm not saying bad officiating can't impact a game. I'm saying it didn't impact MU/FL

[MUMac]

I agree it did not impact MU/UF. Not sure I saw in this thread where anyone thought it did. As I stated in an earlier post, my comments were generic and not to MU/UF.

Anyway, no new turf being dug here. To sum it up for me, I think the officiating in college is weakening and needs improvement. I think some officials are not able to keep up with the athleticism today. I think some officials believe they are the game or bigger than the game. For the most part, though, most of the officials are good and quality officials. It is the bad ones that can ruin the game. And when I, or others, point that out I do not necessarily believe that is whining (though I do acknowledge that whining exists). That is all.