Jake

[Nukem2]

Does Buzz need to run some plays to give Jake the more open looks he needs...?

[Halo]

I would be happy with a play for Gardner first .

[MUMac]

He had several open looks. Clanked each one of them off the rim.

[kneelb4zerg]

I would be happy with a play for Gardner first .

Call the show and tell him on Wednesday! I'm sure Buzz would be surprised when you tell him what a good offensive player Gardner is.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

It'd be a lot easier to get plays for Gardner if the defense had to defend the three-point line. I said on Scoop I've seen nothing to indicate Jake would do anything with more plays ran for him. He missed some wide-open looks yesterday. Until he proves otherwise, he's a practice sharpshooter. His defense is worth getting some minutes, but his offense is lacking.

[AbovetheRim]

Does Buzz need to run some plays to give Jake the more open looks he needs...?

Is this a serious question or sarcasm? :confused:

[Nukem2]

Is this a serious question or sarcasm? :confused:
Jake simply needs space for his shot....GBOO. He got space vs. Grambling and hit 3 in a row.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Is this a serious question or sarcasm? :confused:

was wondering the same thing

[Nukem2]

Are you a Scoop refugee...?

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Jake simply needs space for his shot....GBOO. He got space vs. Grambling and hit 3 in a row.

He got space against Ohio State and hit zero in a row. Jake can play solid defensively in a system, but hasn't shown much acumen for scoring against anyone but low-major competition. And hitting three in a row against the worst team in D1 isn't the same as doing it against one of the best defenses in the country.

[Nukem2]

He got space against Ohio State and hit zero in a row. Jake can play solid defensively in a system, but hasn't shown much acumen for scoring against anyone but low-major competition. And hitting three in a row against the worst team in D1 isn't the same as doing it against one of the best defenses in the country.
Hey, I'm not a Jake defender. But, if he is going to play, Buzz needs to do something to make him effective. Guy needs a lot of comfortable space ( which he did not get against OSU as Craft was dogging him ).

[MUMac]

Hey, I'm not a Jake defender. But, if he is going to play, Buzz needs to do something to make him effective. Guy needs a lot of comfortable space ( which he did not get against OSU as Craft was dogging him ).

Not sure we saw the same game. He took shots in rhythm and with space. The last one there was no one in the same zip code. He still clanked it. I think you see by the responses, no one agrees with you.

[IWB]

That was part of OSU's game plan. Thad Matta said in the post game that in preparation, they were very concerned about Thomas, and they weren't going to give him an inch.

[TheSultan]

He had free looks multiple times. At some point people here are going to have to realize he simply isn't an offensive player at this level. He is very smart in the team defensive scheme and does bring value there. But he just isn't the "sniper" that people think he is.

[Nukem2]

Not sure we saw the same game. He took shots in rhythm and with space. The last one there was no one in the same zip code. He still clanked it. I think you see by the responses, no one agrees with you.
What I saw is that Jake was hounded by Craft and also expending a lot of energy on D. By the time he would shoot you could see he was rushed. Certainly was not shooting in rhythm. Guy needs lots of time and space. Was not happening. If he can't get that, he does not belong on the floor. All I'm saying.

[AbovetheRim]

He had free looks multiple times. At some point people here are going to have to realize he simply isn't an offensive player at this level. He is very smart in the team defensive scheme and does bring value there. But he just isn't the "sniper" that people think he is.

Exactly. I've heard and read elsewhere about how when you don't make them in the game but make them all in practice, you're still a poor shooter. What has Jake done consistently in game time situations that would lead anyone to believe he is anything but a below average shooter? That being said, why are we even questioning whether or not we should be drawing plays up for him?

[MUMac]

What I saw is that Jake was hounded by Craft and also expending a lot of energy on D. By the time he would shoot you could see he was rushed. Certainly was not shooting in rhythm. Guy needs lots of time and space. Was not happening. If he can't get that, he does not belong on the floor. All I'm saying.

He did get open looks. And shots in rhythm. Sultan may have said it right, he is just not the sniper we thought he would be.

[Nukem2]

He did get open looks. And shots in rhythm. Sultan may have said it right, he is just not the sniper we thought he would be.

Once again, I am certainly not a Jake apologist. If he is going to be out there, Buzz needs to do something to make him effective. He certainly looked rushed as I was watching the game and had binoculars on him. He simply expends so much energy just being out there that he is not comfortable shooting. I would start Mayo and sub JaJuan and let Jake play in a slow tempo game against a sagging zone.

My point is that something needs to be done to help him if he is going to start and play 25 minutes. Otherwise, sit him. Which I think needs to happen.

[MUMac]

Once again, I am certainly not a Jake apologist. If he is going to be out there, Buzz needs to do something to make him effective. He certainly looked rushed as I was watching the game and had binoculars on him. He simply expends so much energy just being out there that he is not comfortable shooting. I would start Mayo and sub JaJuan and let Jake play in a slow tempo game against a sagging zone.

My point is that something needs to be done to help him if he is going to start and play 25 minutes. Otherwise, sit him. Which I think needs to happen.

HE HAD OPEN LOOKS AND MISSED THEM!!!! What more should Buzz do? He can't make the shots for Jake. I understand your point, I just think you are way, way off. Sort of like a Jake Thomas open look

[warriorfan4life]

Since Jake has two-plus years in Buzz's system, he has the defensive edge over the freshmen. If and when the freshmen catch up, Jake's minutes will diminish unless he starts hitting from deep. I liked Buzz's rotation and game plan yesterday. That was the plan to face an experienced top ten team that has a great argument for being the best defensive team in the country in our third game of the season. I still think the vets have more upside/ability then many give them credit for, and will be the main parts of the rotation. However, the freshmen will get looks as the season progresses. In time, they will be the veterans with experience that get the first crack to play the most minutes.

[Nukem2]

HE HAD OPEN LOOKS AND MISSED THEM!!!! What more should Buzz do? He can't make the shots for Jake. I understand your point, I just think you are way, way off. Sort of like a Jake Thomas open look
Ok, fine...what solutions do you have for the backcourt issues which are plainly obvious. I was just throwing a dart in the wind.

[MUfan12]

Ok, fine...what solutions do you have for the backcourt issues which are plainly obvious. I was just throwing a dart in the wind.

Pray that Duane Wilson is a quick healer, and an even quicker learner.

[mufansince72]

HE HAD OPEN LOOKS AND MISSED THEM!!!! What more should Buzz do? He can't make the shots for Jake. I understand your point, I just think you are way, way off. Sort of like a Jake Thomas open look

I'm with Nukem on this. It's not one game! He missed wide open looks whenever he was in the game last year too! At some point you need to make a shot in a game.

[Markedman]

You mean you're with Mac then.......

Jake is what he is.....a walk on who has never produced at this level....Unless that changes for some reason the only solution is for him to get less time.

That doesn't mean the other guys will be any better...... only that they have the potential to be better then what we know Jake is......

I don't blame Jake....he was never brought here to play meaningful minutes...

[Nukem2]

You mean you're with Mac then.......

Jake is what he is.....a walk on who has never produced at this level....Unless that changes for some reason the only solution is for him to get less time.

That doesn't mean the other guys will be any better...... only that they have the potential to be better then what we know Jake is......

I don't blame Jake....he was never brought here to play meaningful minutes...That's my whole point. Jake needs a lot of help if he is going to start and get major minutes. Either help him or play the frosh. Results cannot be worse than yesterday.

[TheSultan]

The problem is Nuke, is I have no idea how he isn't already being helped.

[mufansince72]

You mean you're with Mac then.......

Jake is what he is.....a walk on who has never produced at this level....Unless that changes for some reason the only solution is for him to get less time.

That doesn't mean the other guys will be any better...... only that they have the potential to be better then what we know Jake is......

I don't blame Jake....he was never brought here to play meaningful minutes...

Actually, I'm getting confused about who said what Markedman! I'm with whoever thinks that Jake has not performed up to the level of the minutes he has been given. We all hear how he can't miss in pro am, pregame warmups, and practice, but have yet to see him do it in a game. You would think just by the law of averages that some of these would start to fall.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Actually, I'm getting confused about who said what Markedman! I'm with whoever thinks that Jake has not performed offensively up to the level of the minutes he has been given. We all hear how he can't miss in pro am, pregame warmups, and practice, but have yet to see him do it in a game. You would think just by the law of averages that some of these would start to fall.

I won't deny that Jake hasn't made me happy on offense, though I tried not to put too many expectations on him this year considering he couldn't really dent the rotation last year on a team that was desperate for three-point shooting. But Buzz gives minutes based on defensive effort, and Jake has been notably improved in that regard. He knows where to be, gets how the rotations work, and is helping anchor a very strong defensive team.

I still think he needs to do more on offense to continue justifying his minutes (and frankly I don't expect that to happen) but there's no mystery as to why he's been given the minutes he has.

[Phantom Warrior]

Jake has been beaten off the dribble in all three games.

[MUMac]

Actually, I'm getting confused about who said what Markedman! I'm with whoever thinks that Jake has not performed up to the level of the minutes he has been given. We all hear how he can't miss in pro am, pregame warmups, and practice, but have yet to see him do it in a game. You would think just by the law of averages that some of these would start to fall.

That would be me. The post you responded to, said that. I believe that Jake has had the opportunities Nuke asked for in the OP, but has not made anything. He has had open looks. Thus far, he has shown he cannot make them at this level. Nuke thinks running plays for him would help. He does not see that they have given him screens and help; he has had open looks; he just can't make a 3. If he can't make a 3 at this level, he is a liability on the court.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Anyone wondering why Jake is getting minutes and Jajuan isn't need look no further than here:

http://painttouches.com/2013/11/18/marquette-synergy-individual-defensive-numbers/

[Litehouse]

Jake would be helped by having a PG that can penetrate and then kick out to him set up on the 3-pt line. Derrick can't do that, so playing Jake along with Derrick is a double-whammy. If Duane comes back and can do that, then maybe Jake is a better pair with him.

[Goose85]

If Jake can knock down some shots that would really help everything, especially crowding in on Davante.
Unfortunately for MU, I don't think we have a lot of consistent 3 point threats on the team right now.
Someone has to step up and stretch the D.

[Halo]

Call the show and tell him on Wednesday! I'm sure Buzz would be surprised when you tell him what a good offensive player Gardner is.

Why are you so angry all of the time?

[kneelb4zerg]

Why are you so angry all of the time?

Ha, that's a good question. I'm venting like a lot of people here I suppose. Too much snark there, I can admit.

[Markedman]

I think its clear we have been spoiled by the great run of success the last few years.

Sooner or later we will have a disappointing season…….i mean Kentucky missed the tourney last year….it does happen to programs that are even better then ours.

[mufansince72]

I think its clear we have been spoiled by the great run of success the last few years.

Sooner or later we will have a disappointing season…….i mean Kentucky missed the tourney last year….it does happen to programs that are even better then ours.

Kentucky is a better program than MU? Seems to me we kick their ass every time we play them:cool:

[IrwinFletcher]

Jake was being touted as a "lights out" kind if shooter. Those kind of shooters make shots even when they are closely guarded, let alone when wide open.

In his two seasons to date with MU, Jake is 13-49 for 26.5% from behind the arc. While he hasn't garnered a ton of minutes in his time here, he has certainly been on the floor enough to determine that he isn't a great shooter, something this team desperately needs.

When you add to the fact he cannot put the ball on the floor and go to the basket and that he has limitations defensively, his value decreases.

I think we need to hope that JJJ turns the corner in Buzz's eyes and starts taking some of Jake's 22 mpg's.

[TheSultan]

Jake would be helped by having a PG that can penetrate and then kick out to him set up on the 3-pt line. Derrick can't do that, so playing Jake along with Derrick is a double-whammy. If Duane comes back and can do that, then maybe Jake is a better pair with him.


So this is the new excuse about Jake?

It's a different one every game.

[Litehouse]

So this is the new excuse about Jake?

It's a different one every game.

I didn't mean it as an excuse for Jake. People were saying we should run set plays with Jake coming off screens to help him get his shots, but I don't see that as helping.

Playing Derrick and Jake together compounds the problem since neither can create their own shot. Jake's defender won't sag down to help if Derrick drives the lane.

[TheSultan]

But HE HAD OPEN LOOKS. That is what I don't understand. We don't need to run plays to create anything. Jake had open looks...Jamil had open looks...Todd had open looks...Derrick had open looks.

Only one of them went down.

[IrwinFletcher]

Ja Wilson, Mayo, Jake and De Wilson ALL had open looks. Sultan is correct.

Now, that said, it could just be one of those days where shots go down. Maybe Monday in Tempe, we shoot 6/18 from deep and the game is totally different.

[Nukem2]

Ja Wilson, Mayo, Jake and De Wilson ALL had open looks. Sultan is correct.

Now, that said, it could just be one of those days where shots go down. Maybe Monday in Tempe, we shoot 6/18 from deep and the game is totally different.
Watched replay, jake had one open shot on his first attempt. His other six were well contested.

[TheSultan]

Watched replay, jake had one open shot on his first attempt. His other six were well contested.


I think you and I simply have different definitions of "open."

[Nukem2]

I think you and I simply have different definitions of "open."

Jake had seven shots. One was a wild attempt in the lane. The other six were threes. As I stated, the first was wide open. The last one started out wide open but Craft came across high in the air and nearly blocked the shot and certainly affecting that attempt. He had a couple at the top of the key where he was challenged and shot falling away. He had a corner shot on an out of bounds play that was highly contested. Don't remember what the other one was. Open shots are the ones that OSU was taking and clanking. And, OSU had a lot of really wide open shots.