Vanderbilt loss in December 2011

[mufan2003]

I know many have mentioned the loss @ Florida last year in saying one bad loss does not define a team. I think the Vanderbilt loss @ home in December 2011epitomized this theory even more.

Not saying we are guaranteed similar success as the past 2 years, but it will be interesting to see what changes/adjustments Buzz and staff make to improve our offense......or whether it is as simple as just making shots.

[Markedman]

That team had Jae Crowder, Junior, DJO and Vander.......

[mufansince72]

Shot 18% in second half against Southern!

[warriorfan4life]

That team had Jae Crowder, Junior, DJO and Vander.......

And who's to say that Mayo, Jamil, Taylor, and Gardner do not become a strong core in their own right. They are all plenty talented and Buzz still knows how to coach. That game was after a full non-conference season, while this was three games into the season. Not enough credit has been given to our opponent and examination of the context of the situation. If New Mexico blows our doors off in a month, then I will worry about this team not meeting our high expectation.

[kneelb4zerg]

Does anyone around here actually enjoy Marquette basketball anymore, or do you just show up to the games or watch on TV so you can gripe and complain like you do on these message boards?

Good lord, if this team actually had a bad year and missed the tournament - better programs have had that happen in recent memory - it would be treated here like a natural disaster.

[MUMac]

That team had Jae Crowder, Junior, DJO and Vander.......

Yet they still lost at home and looked ugly doing it.

At that time, people were frustrated with all of those players you mention. Some wanted Vander benched. People were wondering who else could play point guard, because Junior had no offense and was a liability. DJO was not showing leadership. People were critical of his play wondering if he would ever step up. Jae Crowder, at that time, was not the Jae Crowder of the end of the year. Many complained he just would jack up 3's and was undersized.

How soon people forget ...

[The Reptile]

I know many have mentioned the loss @ Florida last year in saying one bad loss does not define a team. I think the Vanderbilt loss @ home in December 2011epitomized this theory even more.

Not saying we are guaranteed similar success as the past 2 years, but it will be interesting to see what changes/adjustments Buzz and staff make to improve our offense......or whether it is as simple as just making shots.

Bingo! Plus, it's not even Thanksgiving. Buzz has a tendency to teach and prove points this early on. I trust that he'll get the work done on this group just like in years past.

[mufansince72]

Buzz will figure something out to make MU competitive. I'm confident in that. Just don't think he has a full set of tools to work with this year.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Buzz will figure something out to make MU competitive. I'm confident in that. Just don't think he has a full set of tools to work with this year.

He has never had a full set of tools. Somehow managed to make it work nonetheless.

[mufansince72]

He has never had a full set of tools. Somehow managed to make it work nonetheless.

I just said that!

[mufansince72]

It could be worse, we could have lost to Belmont at home like North Carolina just did!

[mufan2003]

Saw that, bad loss! Belmont with a 3 to win the game @ UNC.

[Markedman]

I don't believe this team has the talent that the 2009 team did. Crowder was the best MU player since Wade that year...DJO was drafted and first team all conference...

Yes they stunk it up that day.......

If others think the ceiling on this team is as good as 2009 all I can say is I hope you are right.

ps. I enjoy MU basketball every year.....I don't bitch...I just try to call it as I see it. I don't believe out guard play is good enough to win at the level we have seen the last few years.

I will be happy if I am wrong....

Why is is that we are only allowed to give our opinions if they are positive? What fun is that?

[MUfan12]

I enjoy MU basketball every year.....I don't bitch...I just try to call it as I see it. I don't believe out guard play is good enough to win at the level we have seen the last few years.

I will be happy if I am wrong....

Why is is that we are only allowed to give our opinions if they are positive? What fun is that?

Absolutely spot on. Unless there is a huge improvement, the backcourt will be this team's undoing. It's not just their lack of production, it also affects the space Jamil and the post players get to operate.

[MUMac]

I don't believe this team has the talent that the 2009 team did. Crowder was the best MU player since Wade that year...DJO was drafted and first team all conference...

Yes they stunk it up that day.......

If others think the ceiling on this team is as good as 2009 all I can say is I hope you are right.

ps. I enjoy MU basketball every year.....I don't bitch...I just try to call it as I see it. I don't believe out guard play is good enough to win at the level we have seen the last few years.

I will be happy if I am wrong....

Why is is that we are only allowed to give our opinions if they are positive? What fun is that?

I do agree with you and this post. I was just saying after the Vandy loss we had many of the same comments about those players that we do with this years team.

[kneelb4zerg]

The backcourt, particularly De Wilson, needs time to figure things out,but Buzz isn't running a charity here. He recruited Derrick and Derrick has earned his keep on this team. He deserves more than three games of being the anointed starter before we presume that he is a failure. Obviously Buzz believes in him. He has a particular set of talents and the team through Buzz is trying to find the right combinations of guys and how to get everybody in the right position. We are not a team blessed with multiple sure fire future NBA players so this is a process every single year. The shocking thing to me is that fans constantly complain when the team doesn't always look like a finely tuned machine. It is even more egregious this time because it is NOVEMBER 17.

[MUfan12]

The shocking thing to me is that fans constantly complain when the team doesn't always look like a finely tuned machine. It is even more egregious this time because it is NOVEMBER 17.

There's a difference between what you wrote, and complaining about the fact that MU has looked totally inept offensively in 3 of 6 halves they've played this season. November or not, they have been really bad.

I'd settle for a poorly tuned machine at this point. At least a poorly tuned machine still runs.

[warriorfan4life]

I actually strongly believe in Todd Mayo, Jamil Wilson, Steve Taylor, and Juan Anderson. They are all getting adjusted to newer, expanded roles, though Mayo has no issue being a guy that takes a good share of the possessions/shots. My belief in them, along with Otule/Gardner, are why I also have some faith in Derrick Wilson as the starting PG. I think the previously mentioned six guys will provide enough offense to where De Wilson's defense and penchant to be pass first and second on offense will be an asset to the team.

[kneelb4zerg]

There's a difference between what you wrote, and complaining about the fact that MU has looked totally inept offensively in 3 of 6 halves they've played this season. November or not, they have been really bad.

I'd settle for a poorly tuned machine at this point. At least a poorly tuned machine still runs.

One of those games was against a elite defensive team. Another against a tourney team from last year. Regardless it has been three freaking games.

[warriorfan4life]

One of those games was against a elite defensive team. Another against a tourney team from last year. Regardless it has been three freaking games.

If we were assembling a schedule in an attempt to look the best in November, this schedule would be the worst possible way to do so. Our opening night opponent has better then their conference level talent, won 23 games and played a competitive NCAA tourney game last year, and was in the top 100 in defensive efficiency last year playing at a slow pace (i.e. ugly basketball). Our second opponent was optimistically a confidence builder to get the young guys experience, and realistically bad enough that we can take the second team all-state Wisconsin group and beat them by 20 the first day they enter college. Then we played quite possibly the best defensive team in the country that is strongest at our weakest spots. Not a surprise that we had three bad offensive halves of basketball and the defense eventually fell apart in the Ohio State game (though still allowing just 52 points in 65 possessions).

Luckily, Buzz is preparing this team for conference and tournament play, and his track record indicates that he will develop a team that will be much stronger in March then November. Most of the guys in the rotation are guys that Buzz really keyed on in recruiting, and I trust Buzz's ability to evaluate talent and build a team in their mold (especially as he fully understands the type of player he thrives with).

And hell, listen to someone that was a real doubter through the vast majority of last season. I thought the ceiling was the 8/9 NCAA game during the non-conference season and just wanted to get in the tournament. A Big East regular season championship and Elite 8 appearance later, and I will trust in Buzz to develop a winner and believe that he will until proven otherwise. Maybe that I actually like most of this season's parts will have the opposite effect, but I think we have the personnel to more effectively and efficiently play the way last year's team finally fell into playing. I'd rather be on the side of believing in Buzz and his roster then doubting the group three games in and have to eat crow many times later in the year.

[mufan2003]

MUMac is exactly right. Jae Crowder, game by game in 11-12, grew into tge BE player of the year. Vander Blue could not throw it in the ocean his first 2 years @ MU. Buzz thinks Jamil Wilson may end up being the best player he has had to date. Gardner is a stud. The 2013 recruiting class is Buzz's highest rated.

I agree our starting backourt right now is scary. But that may not be the starting backcourt 2-3 months from now. All some are saying is that there is a chance we look back at the Ohio State loss like we did Vanderbilt two seasons ago and Florida last season.

[warriorfan4life]

Though Jake has started and played 55% of the available minutes, Todd Mayo's is still our leading minute guy at the wing guard spot and is not starting only because he limited in offseason workouts because of the knee injury. I think Mayo will start from here on out at the SG spot, and be an effective scorer/defender while playing 65-75% of the available minutes at the 2 (and putting up similar stat lines to McNeal in 2008 and Vander last year).

[bleedbluegold03]

i think we have the worst starting back court in the conference and it's not really even close. I will not be surprised but I will be disappointed to see Buzz roll that line up out there again in the near future.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

- Albert Einstein

[Phantom Warrior]

Jerel's junior year he averaged 14.9 pg, 4.9 rpg, and 3.5 apg. He shot 46% from the field and had an assist/turnover ratio of 1.3/1.0. He also averaged 2.2 spg.

Do you really believe Todd will end up with that kind of production? I hope you are right, but I will be shocked if he comes anywhere close to 15, 5, and 3.5. I'll also be amazed if he ends up hitting 45%-46% of his shots, and I will be pleasantly surprised if he manages a positive assist/turnover ratio.

Heck, I'd be more than satisfied if Todd puts up number similar to Jerel's numbers as a FRESHMAN - 11.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.7 apg, and 44% from the field and 75% from the line (along with 2.1 spg).

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

i think we have the worst starting back court in the conference and it's not really even close. I will not be surprised but I will be disappointed to see Buzz roll that line up out there again in the near future.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

- Albert Einstein

You might want to qualify that with "starting offensive backcourt", because I think we have the best defensive backcourt in the conference, and probably one of the best in the country.

[MUfan12]

You might want to qualify that with "starting offensive backcourt", because I think we have the best defensive backcourt in the conference, and probably one of the best in the country.

So three games is too small of a sample to judge them offensively, but it's fine defensively?

I'll hang up and listen.

[warriorfan4life]

Jerel's junior year he averaged 14.9 pg, 4.9 rpg, and 3.5 apg. He shot 46% from the field and had an assist/turnover ratio of 1.3/1.0. He also averaged 2.2 spg.

Do you really believe Todd will end up with that kind of production? I hope you are right, but I will be shocked if he comes anywhere close to 15, 5, and 3.5. I'll also be amazed if he ends up hitting 45%-46% of his shots, and I will be pleasantly surprised if he manages a positive assist/turnover ratio.

Heck, I'd be more than satisfied if Todd puts up number similar to Jerel's numbers as a FRESHMAN - 11.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.7 apg, and 44% from the field and 75% from the line (along with 2.1 spg).

Jerel hit 51% of his twos, 30% of his threes, and 70% of his FT's, leading to an 104.4 offensive rating while using a whooping 28% of the possessions while on the court. He did have an impressive 25% assist rate for a featured scorer that played off the ball, and I do not think that Mayo will come near that.

Vander last year hit 53% of his twos, 30% of his threes, and 76% of his FT's, leading to a 104.2 offensive rating while using 24% of our possessions. Unlike Jerel in 2008, Vander only had a 13% assist rate, so his efficiency came solely from his ability to hits twos and free throws.

For the season, I think Todd will finish very closely to the 104 offensive rating that Rel had in 2008 and Vander did last year while using a good number of possessions. In his full season back in 2012, Mayo hit 48% of his twos, 33% of his threes, and 76% of his free throws, leading to a 99 offensive rating while using 20% of available possessions (a 100 rating while using 20% of available possessions is considered a standout season for a freshman). I think Todd will hit 46-48% of his twos, somewhere around 35-38% of his threes, and about 80% of his FT's. He currently has an assist rate of 17.8% through three games, and hope he keeps that up through the season. Since I expect us to play more of a containment defense, he will likely not get as many steals as Rel of Vander did in their junior season. However, he is a very good defender and will certainly not hurt us on that end of the floor (his defensive ability is why he is only frosh to play more then half of the available minutes under Buzz).

I think Todd is a rhythm player, and him starting and getting consistent playing time will help him shoot it a little better (especially from three). I think in turn he has a fairly efficient, high volume usage type of season. We need his ability to get his own shot and hit from deep, and Todd needs a good year to impress scouts here and especially overseas.