Some of this loss is on us, the fans

[Gato78]

I have been griping about this for years but it was so obvious today. OSU had its big run, when it actually put the game away, in the first four minutes of the second half. The BC was dead at the start of the half because the "fans" were still in the concourse and the Courtside Club socializing. There was no juice to start the half--none. OSU came out tough and there was no fan input to attempt to stem the tide. I am dead serious about this and I know some at MU have been concerned about this in the past. Obviously, it really pisses me off.

[TheSultan]

27 game home court winning streak pretty much blunts that argument.

[mufansince72]

Well maybe they should make the beer lines shorter, Gato! I think you are reaching with that one! Do you think Jake Thomas would hit a shot if the fans were in their seats, or Dwill would be a better point guard if the fans were not in the bathroom line?

[MU_Iceman]

Gato, I was thinking the EXACT same thing...OSU went on their run and I thought, "nice to see all the fans back in their seats to help them through this". It pisses me off too. there really is ZERO excuse for not being in your seat by 2nd half tip. None. In 10 years I have NEVER missed and opening tip, or a tip in the 2nd half.

[Gato78]

No. I think we would have more intensity to start the second half. I am serious about the fact that MU hoops people have noticed this before and see it as a problem. They are not able to do anything about it because the BC wants to sell the beer et al. There were discussions about blinking the lights or some other warning but they cannot do it. This does have an effect--otherwise, is home court advantage just a mirage?

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Sorry but this is one of the dumbest things that is always brought up here. It's almost as bad as the guys who always blame the refs. Yes the crowd no doubt makes a difference but these guys should be able to play for a few minutes without a loud supportive crowd for 2 minutes. OSU was better, plain and simple.

[Nukem2]

I hate that folks come in late, but the real story was that Matta adjusted things at halftime and MU did not respond well. Need to get the frosh into the action, as the Wilson/Thomas backcourt is simply limited.

[MUBB713]

I completely agree with this post. I don't think it has much effect on the game, but it's very annoying and disrespectful when people do this in the beginning of the second half.

Even better when you see a group of four people sitting together and they all come back one at a time during this time. It really is the worst part of any MU game by far.

[Gato78]

OSU was better? They totally sucked today in almost every statistical category, except 2nd half shooting. We had a great opportunity to win this game with the way OSU played. They played like crap and we were worse. We needed a strong home court advantage and there is no way we could say that advantage existed in the first four minutes of the second half. It just so happened that Ohio State broke open the game when our home court advantage was minimized. I am not saying it is cause and effect, I am saying it is a factor.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

To answer your question: yes, OSU was better, period.

[TheSultan]

OSU was better? They totally sucked today in almost every statistical category, except 2nd half shooting. We had a great opportunity to win this game with the way OSU played. They played like crap and we were worse. We needed a strong home court advantage and there is no way we could say that advantage existed in the first four minutes of the second half. It just so happened that Ohio State broke open the game when our home court advantage was minimized. I am not saying it is cause and effect, I am saying it is a factor.

That makes no sense.

[mufansince72]

Turn the monitors off then, and people will be in their seat. I can tell you I am typically one of the guilty ones. I don't think it impacts the game though.

[Gato78]

Sure it does. It is not the sole cause, it is a cause that combined with others that produced the result.

That makes no sense.

[MUMac]

What I noticed at the game and believe, in part, what Gato is discussing is the lack of energy from the fans. Those that are coming back late are disengaged. They disrupt those of us in our seats. MU does feed off the fans energy and there was none.

That said, DWill's two and Jake's one missed three attempts led to points on the other end. Poor shooting and poor defense gave OSU am early sizable lead that MU could not overcome. Still, these fans are annoying.

[mutpm]

MU went 12 minutes without a field goal and had 4 in the 2nd half and you want some of the blame to go to the fans?!?

[mutpm]

2 of those 4 field goals in the 2nd half came in the first 2:30 when the fans were still in the concourse.

[MUBB713]

What I noticed at the game and believe, in part, what Gato is discussing is the lack of energy from the fans. Those that are coming back late are disengaged. They disrupt those of us in our seats. MU does feed off the fans energy and there was none.

That said, DWill's two and Jake's one missed three attempts led to points on the other end. Poor shooting and poor defense gave OSU am early sizable lead that MU could not overcome. Still, these fans are annoying.

Agree and disagree. There was a lot of energy at the BC today. The fans were ready to get loud but just never had anything to cheer about especially in the second half.

The problem with people showing up late in the second half is that everyone is doing it at a different time. The 2500 people in the lower bowl that aren't in their seats are all coming back at different times. Not only are those people disengaged but it also disengages the other people that were sitting down as well. I feel that people should be able to enjoy the game how they want to and if they want to sit out in the hall for a few min extra then that's their decision, but they should at least wait to come back till the 16 min timeout.

[mufansince72]

I think this thread is a major reach. Title it something like it inconveniences you as a fan who is already in his/her seat when the late folks get back, but don't try to link the teams performance to late arriving fans. Seems like major excuse making to me.

[Gato78]

Absolutely. As stated, OSU was there for the taking. They played like crap, too. We were in this game, tied at half, and they started the second half hot and we lost contact. Obviously we cannot score points in bunches. The 1st 4 minutes of the second half determined the outcome.


MU went 12 minutes without a field goal and had 4 in the 2nd half and you want some of the blame to go to the fans?!?

[TheSultan]

Absolutely. As stated, OSU was there for the taking. They played like crap, too. We were in this game, tied at half, and they started the second half hot and we lost contact. Obviously we cannot score points in bunches. The 1st 4 minutes of the second half determined the outcome.

Yeah, but it wasn't because of the fans. It was because OSU's guards were attacking more. (Reason we went into zone.)

[mutpm]

Absolutely. As stated, OSU was there for the taking. They played like crap, too. We were in this game, tied at half, and they started the second half hot and we lost contact. Obviously we cannot score points in bunches. The 1st 4 minutes of the second half determined the outcome.

I have aisle seats and am back for the start of the 2nd half, so I understand the frustration of people not being back. With that said, MU started the 2nd half shooting 2-6. They finished 2-18. Their best stretch of shooting today was with the fans not back in their seats. It didn't matter if fans were in their seats or not, they couldn't make shots today. MU only shot 20.7% in the 1st half and that was with the fans into the game. There are just some days the team isn't very good and today was one of them.

[MUBB713]

I agree with this. It's a minor inconvenience and it annoys me but this is definitely not something I notice unless MU is losing. I wouldn't even notice if they were winning to be honest. I don't think it has much of an effect on the game, if any.

[ziggysfryboy]

The BC and or MU needs to do something to let the fans in the corridor know that the 2nd half is starting. There's no way to know from some of the bar areas.

Dim the lights or something.

[kneelb4zerg]

I agree with Gato. People need to make it a priority to make it back to their seats. The energy really helped us in the first half but in the second half by the time everyone made it back by then it was pretty much too late. Why wouldn't people want to at least try to make a difference?

[mutpm]

So MU has no chance to win on the road this year since they need 17,000 people in the seats cheering wildly for them to stay in the game? Fans can help a team, but when a team shoots 18% and commits 4 turnovers on in-bounds passes, there's not much the fans can do.

[IrwinFletcher]

I am not at every game, but made it up today with my son. At the half, I went to the bathroom. The lines were crazy long, and I'm talking about the men's room. Was going to buy another beer, but those lines were really long as well. Looked in to check the time and there was 2 minutes til 2nd half.

Sure there might have been some people mingling out there. But the bathroom and food lines were really long and some people may have wanted to get back on time, but couldn't.

And for the record, I think it has nothing to do with winning or even playing well.

[Gato78]

Home court means nothing in sports, right? Of course not, teams have better records at home vs. the road. If home court means something, how can it be credibly said that fans have no impact on the game?

[DavidBoone2inchesTaller]

I have been griping about this for years but it was so obvious today. OSU had its big run, when it actually put the game away, in the first four minutes of the second half. The BC was dead at the start of the half because the "fans" were still in the concourse and the Courtside Club socializing. There was no juice to start the half--none. OSU came out tough and there was no fan input to attempt to stem the tide. I am dead serious about this and I know some at MU have been concerned about this in the past. Obviously, it really pisses me off.

This is complete bullsh#t. You suck Gato.

[DavidBoone2inchesTaller]

The BC hit its peak for noise and fan support during the UConn game that Dominic James got hurt in. To this day, I have never heard the BC louder. It was like MECCA that day.

It hasn't been even close to being that loud since.

[mutpm]

Home court means nothing in sports, right? Of course not, teams have better records at home vs. the road. If home court means something, how can it be credibly said that fans have no impact on the game?

Of course it means something. Familiar rims, sleeping in your own bed, etc. To nitpick it down to fans getting back to their seats a couple minutes late is reaching. The team wasn't good today. That's why they lost. There is no need to make excuses.

[GOMU1104]

Blaming the fans. Lol.

This board is falling apart today.

[Gato78]

You one of my brothers?


This is complete bullsh#t. You suck Gato.

[Halo]

MU expert/chief flame thrower Butch Badger weighing in on the fan seating comment. :)

http://buckyville.yuku.com/topic/67841/MUOU#.UogVmZRARhQ

[TedBaxter]

Sorry but this is one of the dumbest things that is always brought up here. It's almost as bad as the guys who always blame the refs. Yes the crowd no doubt makes a difference but these guys should be able to play for a few minutes without a loud supportive crowd for 2 minutes. OSU was better, plain and simple.

It's not dumb and here's the answer for the lower level people who go under the lower level for halftime or even before the game. If you stay in the lower level establishment too long, you stay there until the 16 minute timeout. Put someone at the tunnel to monitor this and put out an email to the season ticker holders. This is what they use to do at high school games years ago so the players and other fans weren't disrupted. Too tough to monitor the people who use the upper concourses, but you can monitor the lowest level.

[mufansince72]

It's not dumb and here's the answer for the lower level people who go under the lower level for halftime or even before the game. If you stay in the lower level establishment too long, you stay there until the 16 minute timeout. Put someone at the tunnel to monitor this and put out an email to the season ticker holders. This is what they use to do at high school games years ago so the players and other fans weren't disrupted. Too tough to monitor the people who use the upper concourses, but you can monitor the lowest level.

Ted, it is dumb! It is dumb as this is being portrayed as a reason MU lost the game. I would say zero effect. I do agree that it is a bother to other fans, and maybe they should have to wait for a timeout or stop in action to climb over other people in their seats. As one of the prime offenders of this rule, I would have no problem staying out on the concourse for a stoppage in the action.

[TedBaxter]

I watch games on TV and the lower bowl has a ton of people who haven't returned from halftime. I didn't say it was a reason we lost. I say it because it's disrespectful to the players, the other fans at the game and looks like **** on TV!!!!

[mufansince72]

I watch games on TV and the lower bowl has a ton of people who haven't returned from halftime. I didn't say it was a reason we lost. I say it because it's disrespectful to the players, the other fans at the game and looks like **** on TV!!!!

I agree with all of that, but Gato who started this thread, said "Some of this loss is on us, the fans", I couldn't disagree more with that commentary.

[MUMac]

I agree with all of that, but Gato who started this thread, said "Some of this loss is on us, the fans", I couldn't disagree more with that commentary.

Fine, that is your opinion (the same one who was incensed at the MUHS team for jumping on your precious high school logo, yet this one is garbage? WOW). Remember, your opinion is yours and yours alone. Some may agree with you (idiots?), some may not. So you disagree, so what?

[mufansince72]

Fine, that is your opinion (the same one who was incensed at the MUHS team for jumping on your precious high school logo, yet this one is garbage? WOW). Remember, your opinion is yours and yours alone. Some may agree with you (idiots?), some may not. So you disagree, so what?

Blaming the actions of the fans for a loss just wreaks of excuse making, as does blaming the officials. As far as jumping on another teams hs logo, that is just dis-respect, and I stand by that! If Gato would have stated that it is disrespectful to the team, disrespectful to the other fans to return to your seat late, I would agree 100%. To say it has anything to do with a loss, I could not disagree more.

[MUMac]

Blaming the actions of the fans for a loss just wreaks of excuse making, as does blaming the officials. As far as jumping on another teams hs logo, that is just dis-respect, and I stand by that! If Gato would have stated that it is disrespectful to the team, disrespectful to the other fans to return to your seat late, I would agree 100%. To say it has anything to do with a loss, I could not disagree more.

Again, it is your opinion. Not that I respect it, but yours alone. Gato did not say it was the reason, but at a key point in the game, it had an impact. You disagree, again, so what?

I mentioned the MUHS incident, as I think that speaks to your thought process. Again, one I do not share in any way, shape or form.

[mufansince72]

So what? I thought the purpose of message boards was to give opinions! I don't expect you to agree with all of my opinions, just as I only agree with a portion of your opinions.

[Gato78]

Man, I cannot believe the reading comprehension. We played like crap. That is why we lost. Our shooting was horrendous. Couldn't make a layup. The key time in the game was the first 4 minutes of the second half when OSU took the lead, created space and then never let us get back. One of the contributing factors to that run was an absolutely dead BC while people continued to socialize at half time. Not a new phenomenon. The dead atmosphere negated our home court advantage for that stretch. I really believe it was a factor. It was not the reaon we lost, it was a factor in the key stretch of the game that put us behind. In big games we need to capitalize on every advantage. We gave up one of those advantages during a key time in the game.

[mufansince72]

Man, I cannot believe the reading comprehension. We played like crap. That is why we lost. Our shooting was horrendous. Couldn't make a layup. The key time in the game was the first 4 minutes of the second half when OSU took the lead, created space and then never let us get back. One of the contributing factors to that run was an absolutely dead BC while people continued to socialize at half time. Not a new phenomenon. The dead atmosphere negated our home court advantage for that stretch. I really believe it was a factor. It was not the reaon we lost, it was a factor in the key stretch of the game that put us behind. In big games we need to capitalize on every advantage. We gave up one of those advantages during a key time in the game.

As I said, the purpose of message boards is to give opinions. I don't agree with this one, but typically agree with most of yours.

How can you say in one sentence that we played like crap, and that is why we lost, and then go two sentences later, and say that the fans in the concourse created a dead atmosphere that negated our home court advantage and was a factor? They seem like very connected concepts to me.

[kneelb4zerg]

Man, I cannot believe the reading comprehension. We played like crap. That is why we lost. Our shooting was horrendous. Couldn't make a layup. The key time in the game was the first 4 minutes of the second half when OSU took the lead, created space and then never let us get back. One of the contributing factors to that run was an absolutely dead BC while people continued to socialize at half time. Not a new phenomenon. The dead atmosphere negated our home court advantage for that stretch. I really believe it was a factor. It was not the reaon we lost, it was a factor in the key stretch of the game that put us behind. In big games we need to capitalize on every advantage. We gave up one of those advantages during a key time in the game.

I'm with you. I also think the problem exacerbated by really big games like this where there are lots of casual fans who don't care so much about the game.

[mufansince72]

Interesting twist. I have read some articles lately about stadium design. In this case specifically for football, but I could see this happenning with a replacement Bradley Center too. The concept being having far less seats, but having more space with restaurants, bars, and other social activities. The concept being that you get people in the building by having a general admission ticket. You get to experience the buzz of the building, but get the advantage of also being is a sports bar type atmosphere. If you guys think this is a problem now, it is most likely only going to get worse.

[BLT]

During pregame introductions, the lower bowl is half empty, except the student section. Far worse than halftime. Same is true for Brewers games as tailgaters trickle in. The bathroom situation in the BC is bad for those not in the Donor Clubs at halftime. And today, the BC was not staffed up for the noon game...folks were trying to get lunch with the odd start time. The BMO saved the payroll for the Bucks game apparently.

[MUAlphaBangura]

Blaming the actions of the fans for a loss just wreaks of excuse making, as does blaming the officials. As far as jumping on another teams hs logo, that is just dis-respect, and I stand by that! If Gato would have stated that it is disrespectful to the team, disrespectful to the other fans to return to your seat late, I would agree 100%. To say it has anything to do with a loss, I could not disagree more.

I think many factors play into a win or a loss. Don't think they are EXCUSES as you apparently do. I think the two atrocious calls at the end of the 1st half that took away two baskets for us played a factor in the game. Coulda been up 22-14 with those points, but two blown calls changed that. Who knows what happens if we are up 8. Did it cost us the game? No, but it played a role in the outcome.
Did the fans lack of fandom at the start of the 2nd half play a role? I believe yes. I am always back in my seat for the 2nd half, and rarely get to see any action for the first 3-4 minutes because of people coming back late. I can't cheer if I can't see what the hell is going on.
Did Buzz's decisions play a role in the outcome? Absolutely. Did our guys porous 2nd half defense and inability to put the ball in the hole play a role? Again, absolutely.
All of these things , IMHO, are a factor in each and every game we play. They are not excuses. Nobody says any ONE of these things decided the game, but I don't have a problem analyzing each of these things and how they relate to our team's performance. After all, it's what we do here on these boards.

[mutpm]

It was 25-23 with 17:30 to go. MU lost this game in the stretch after Gardners basket with 13:30 to go cut the lead to 7. They were out scored 15-2 over the next 8:30. That's the stretch that killed the team, not the first 3 minutes of the 2nd half.

It is a personal frustration of mine having to get up multiple times to let people in, but I still find it weak sauce to put any of the blame on yesterday's performance on the fans.

[DavidBoone2inchesTaller]

You one of my brothers?

We are all brothers, are we not?

[IWB]

I agree with Gato. The begining of the game the place goes nuts. It is crazy. It is an awesome atmosphere. The beginning of the second half is dead. 1/2 the stadium is empty. Then, when people are trying to watch the game they can't, as every 2 minutes someone in front of you comes back, or someone in your row comes back and they don't wait until the action stops, no, they ask you to stand up and move right as a play is being run. It sucks.

There are two problems that I see, one you can do something about, one you can't.

1) A lot of MU fans have friends that are MU fans. Might be people you went to school with and have known for years, may be people you just know through Marquette basketball. Pre-game and half time is the ONLY time you see these people. Take the Fighting 218 - I love talking to those guys, but outside of MU games, I never see them, so halftime is the only time I see them. I do however bolt before 2nd half starts. Not a lot can be done about this.

2) It was mentioned above, but long lines for concessions/beer. This has driven me nuts for years. Yes, I know it is great that people volunteer to work and money goes to their charity. You have this at MU games, Bucks games, Packers games, Brewers games. It is great as these non profits raise a lot of money. However, it slows everything down. YOu go up, order two beers, the lady goes back, tells the guy pouring what she wants, she stands there waiting for him to pour them, then she comes back, takes the time to figure out the cash register and then starts the actual transaction. I assure you, 2 bartenders from any downtown bar could keep those people moving. You need people back there that know what they are doing, people that are used to a massive rush. I know, the charities....but it sucks for customers.

Solution...... Look at what other schools do. Some stadiums give the lights a flicker with a 1 minute warning. Some have curtains at each aisle and won't let people go until the action stops. DO THIS!!!!! As soon as someone wants to go back to their seat and can't until the action stops, it won't take long to correct the issue.

[mufansince72]

Maybe they should pump up the crowd before the second half then with some more thunderstruck or something. I personally feel no urgency to get back to my seat, as I know there is a media timeout at the 16 minute mark.

[IWB]

16:00 media timeout? So you don't mind missing 20% of the 2nd half?

[Nukem2]

Maybe they should pump up the crowd before the second half then with some more thunderstruck or something. I personally feel no urgency to get back to my seat, as I know there is a media timeout at the 16 minute mark.

So, you are happy with missing 10% of the game...?

[mufansince72]

16:00 media timeout? So you don't mind missing 20% of the 2nd half?

Don't miss it at all, watch on the monitor or look down the ramp. Like I said, I bet you the next arena will have much less seating and more general admission open areas. If it makes you feel better, I only buy aisle seats.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

IWB brings up one issue I had yesterday. I'm still upstairs, but at the front of the first rows up the stairs. After halftime, I felt like I missed the first 4 minutes too because there was a never-ending string of late returners. If you're fine with missing the first 4 minutes, whatever, I can live with that. But then actually miss those 4 minutes, don't obstruct my view the entire time because you couldn't be arsed to pay attention to when the teams were coming back out.

[MulliganMusings]

Have to say that Gato might have a point. I couldn't help but notice, watching on TV from Atlanta, how many empty seats there were as the second half tipped.

[mutpm]

MU was outscored 12-4 in the first segment of the 2nd half. Yes, that sucks, but the game was still within reach. I went back and looked at the winning streak. During the streak, there 6 games against quality opponents where the score was within 5 points at halftime. In those 6 games, the worst MU did in the first segment of the 2nd half was lose 9-8 to Syracuse last season. In the other 5 games, MU either played even or won the segment.

1/1/12 Villanova, MU led 40-37 at the half and won the first segment of the 2nd half 11-5
1/14/12 Pittsburgh, MU trailed 29-24 at the half and won the first segment of the 2nd half 11-6
1/16/12 Louisville, MU led 34-30 at the half and won the first segment of the 2nd half 8-6
1/1/13 UCONN, MU led 30-27 at the half and won the first segment of the 2nd half 9-7
1/5/13 Georgetown, MU led 20-19 at the half and tied the first segment of the 2nd half 8-8
2/25/13 Syracuse, MU trailed 32-29 at the half and lost the first segment of the 2nd half 9-8

The data does not prove the theory. The last 6 times MU had a close game at the half against a quality opponent, they outscored their opponents 56-42 before the first media timeout. I'm pretty sure we've had this issue with a late returning crowd from halftime for a couple of seasons. Using that assumption, why was Saturday the first time it was a problem for the team?