Dave Begal tears into Milwaukee Panther basketball

[Mark Miller]

http://www.onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/begeluwmbasketball.html

Yikes. Harsh, to say the least.

[Markedman]

Pretty much shoots down my theory that Dave Begal and BBFran are the same guy……..:D

[ge1974]

Good article. However how can Rob Jeter be successful when as Begal writes?

"Bad facilities, inadequate support and changes in administration.".


It doesn't matter how much Jeter makes. It about their school's commitment (or lack thereof) for college basketball. What decent players want to go there? I have seen the same situation with Holy Cross during the past few years in both D-1AA football and basketball (my second school of interest behind MU).

[TheSultan]

At a school like UWM, success is always going to be fleeting. Students don't care enough to invest their time or their money in the program. Donors aren't really all that into it. The larger community doesn't rally behind it like they do at UWGB. You just have to hope for a flash-in-the-pan coach like Pearl and hope he can stay and build something.

OTOH, it is hard simply to tell them to throw in the towel. I mean they did that about 20 years ago at Northeastern Illinois University which was in the MidCon at the time. But UWM doesn't want to be Northeastern Illinois University. They don't want to be Metropolitan State in Minnesota. (Did anyone even know those two universities existed before I mentioned them?) UWM wants to grow into a place with solid academics and respected research. It's pretty much unprecedented for any school to have the vision and the image to do that without athletics. Not saying that the two are necessarily linked, but if you don't have the $$$ for one, you don't have it for the other either.

But they are in a tough spot. No money. Little support. They are what they are.

[Hamostradamus]

I wonder if UWM faculty resist large-scale investment in athletics. UWGB has a young, energetic coach playing an exciting brand of basketball (making less than half of Jeter) and they have increased their profile, so I wonder what built-in hamstring UWM has that that UWGB doesn't.

[TheSultan]

I wonder if UWM faculty resist large-scale investment in athletics. UWGB has a young, energetic coach playing an exciting brand of basketball (making less than half of Jeter) and they have increased their profile, so I wonder what built-in hamstring UWM has that that UWGB doesn't.


I don't think the differences between the programs are all that great. The difference is that one hired a good coach...and the other didn't. But if UWGB has a good year, some MAC or A10 school will likely sweep in and pick up Wardle because they can offer more money. And then they are just one bad hire away from where UWM is now. (And that's exactly where they were just over a decade ago when UWGB won 9 games under Mike Heideman.)

[Cooby Snacks]

I mean they did that about 20 years ago at Northeastern Illinois University which was in the MidCon at the time. But UWM doesn't want to be Northeastern Illinois University. They don't want to be Metropolitan State in Minnesota. (Did anyone even know those two universities existed before I mentioned them?)

Yeah, Marcus West transferred from Northeastern Illinois. But that's seriously the only reason.

[IWB]

First off, while Begal isn't really wrong, I have a hard time reading this from someone who I doubt has attended a UWM game in the past 10 years.

That being said, there are issues, and those issues start with the Administration. How many AD hiring mistakes did they make? And each time they bypassed several good candidates. Look at the new AD hire. I'm sure she's talented, she may be just what they needed, but when the A-10, the MVC and others were going through massive changes, and those conferences were in position to expand - UWM hire an AD that wouldn't be able to start for another 2 months. They needed UWM would have been the choice of any of those conferences, but the market size of Milwaukee should have had them in the discussion at a minimum.

Next - Rob Jeter - He is a tough one to fire, and hire. He has the state pension. I was told that was one of the stumbling blocks with another school that wanted him, they wouldn't match or even touch what he had built up in his pension fund. Maybe that was just an excuse, but that is what I was told. Hard to fire him, he has three years left on his contract. Why does he have such a lengthy contract? Not sure.

Look at the entire facility question - sure, the economy is in the tank and that was a setback, but this debate has been out there for 10 years now, and still no one had put their foot on top of the shovel. They need a facility - on or near campus. They have gone to great lengths to expand student housing, but have yet to break ground on anything.

Finally - look at what they have done to their students' fund. The students voted to add additional fees to their tuition for a football program. It was put in three(?) years ago. They have been collecting for that. Should be more than a few million in that coffer by now (Jimmy Lemke would know the number), but nothing has been done.

It all boils down to leadership, or a lack thereof, from the university all the way down to the athletic department.

It's a mess, and it shouldn't be. UWM should be relevant. They should be competitive. But they are not. Do I want them to beat MU? Hell no, but I think it would be great if they were at the same level as a Northern Iowa or Southern Illinois, but until they get their heads out of the sand, they won't even be close.

[MUBasketball]

C'mon people, that was a completely moronic article.

What's his point? They only get a few thousand fans at the games and haven't had sustained success lately? OK, well, there are 350+ Division I programs in the country. A majority of these programs play in front of a few thousand people each game and don't have sustained success. Should all those schools fold their programs as well?

Just silly.

[IWB]

Agree MU, and as I said, especially because Begel doesn't go to anything - but they do have issues that need to be addressed, and that is said every year, yet nothing is ever addressed.

[Mark Miller]

It was a brutal article. Seems like he has a vendetta against the folks at Milwaukee.

[TheSultan]

The biggest problem they have with a new facility is simply the cost. Unlike residence halls, where you can finance the construction with the future room and board charges, you don't have a steady stream of income to pay off an arena unless you pay with student fees. That would generate quite the protest among a largely apathetic student base.

[Gato78]

Begal is right about UWM basketball. They have to be losing money--probably a lot of money. Where are the anti-tax conservatives? (For that matter, when will the anti-tax crowd start looking at the cost of the UW System in general?)Seriously. Has anyone done an analysis of how much money is lost on the UWM athletics department? They should consider DIII or make some drastic changes. I hate that Dave Begal is the author--he is a clown. But on this issue, I think he is right.

[MUMac]

It was a brutal article. Seems like he has a vendetta against the folks at Milwaukee.

Is this begal's new Bart Starr? I never cared for him and always considered him to be a blowhard and an A-hole.

[MUBasketball]

They should consider DIII or make some drastic changes.

So you suggest a majority of D1 programs drop to DIII as well? That's my whole point in all this...why UWM? Reading this article, you'd think all 350+ D1 programs are just thriving, while UWM is the lone one that is struggling. Hardly the case.

Seriously, does that guy pull in a paycheck with articles like this? Would hate to see what other gems he writes.

[Gato78]

No. What I am saying is that the financial losses have to be measured with the good the sport does for the university. In this case, I am willing to bet UWM is bleeding money with almost no return. I was really confining my argument to UWM. UWGB does tremendously with its program. People actually go to games in GB and there is an avid following. My expectation is that program runs at a loss, or close to break even, but there is a return on investment. My guess is that Whitewater gets more out of its DIII program at far less expense than does UWM. My additional thought is that UWM, if it is going to be a D1 program, needs to step up with money--facilities primarily. Its current situation is ridiculous.

[Nukem2]

Begel is still around, wow. He was brutal back in the day.

[TheSultan]

No. What I am saying is that the financial losses have to be measured with the good the sport does for the university. In this case, I am willing to bet UWM is bleeding money with almost no return. I was really confining my argument to UWM. UWGB does tremendously with its program. People actually go to games in GB and there is an avid following. My expectation is that program runs at a loss, or close to break even, but there is a return on investment. My guess is that Whitewater gets more out of its DIII program at far less expense than does UWM. My additional thought is that UWM, if it is going to be a D1 program, needs to step up with money--facilities primarily. Its current situation is ridiculous.


I think you are exaggerating the interest in UWGB basketball. According to this document, UWM outdrew UWGB (4,154 v. 3,064).

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2013/2013%2007%20Attendance%20section%2010-18.pdf

[Gato78]

Do you believe UWM's numbers?


I think you are exaggerating the interest in UWGB basketball. According to this document, UWM outdrew UWGB (4,154 v. 3,064).

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2013/2013%2007%20Attendance%20section%2010-18.pdf

[TheSultan]

Do you believe UWM's numbers?


If I don't believe UWM's then I have no reason to believe UWGB's. But even if I believe UWGB's, that isn't very impressive for a D1 program. As I said earlier, both programs are essentially the same - relatively poorly supported programs without a lot of resources, whose coaches would leave for elsewhere at a moments notice. UWM has been up when UWGB was down...and now vice versa. In a decade from now, it could all change.

[IWB]

Also, look at the total enrollments....

UWGB: 6,790 - Averaging over 3,000 per game is 44% of their student enrollment.
UWM: 29,768 - Averaging over 4,000 per game is 13% of their student enrollment.

When you look at the size of a school compared to attendance, it should show you what kind of support they have.

MU: 11,782 - Averaging over 15,000 per game is 127% of their student enrollment.

[Gato78]

UWGB's facilities kill UWM. The Resch Center is OK (better than US Cell or Klotsche) but their on campus facility (Kress Center) is really nice. Not as nice as the Al but it is very nice--kicks UWM for sure.


If I don't believe UWM's then I have no reason to believe UWGB's. But even if I believe UWGB's, that isn't very impressive for a D1 program. As I said earlier, both programs are essentially the same - relatively poorly supported programs without a lot of resources, whose coaches would leave for elsewhere at a moments notice. UWM has been up when UWGB was down...and now vice versa. In a decade from now, it could all change.

[TheSultan]

I will also point out that Tod Kowalczyk went to Toledo to make $280,000 while his compensation at UWGB was about $200,000. Jeter's is $400,000. UWM is giving too much money to a poor coach.

[MU/Panther]

I was really confining my argument to UWM. UWGB does tremendously with its program. People actually go to games in GB and there is an avid following. Many people are not going to Green Bay games. Every year they have the same average per game attendance numbers as Milwaukee. Green Bay basketball is the only winter game in town beside the hockey team (Gamblers) UWM is in a food chain with many Badger alumni in Milwaukee, Bucks, Marquette, Admirals & Wave.

Green Bay--2013/3,084, 2012/3,064, 2011/3,007

Milwaukee--2013/2,266, 2012/4,154, 2011/4,154

Plus, I'll take the Cell over the Resch Center! My wife and I like the Cell better than the Bradley Center and we like the Bradley Center.

[MU/Panther]

By in what fatass Bagel is saying in terms of attendance we shouldn't have young boys& girls play ncaa sports in softball, volleyball, soccer, etc because of attendance numbers. 4,154 is pretty solid numbers for the Panthers! That ranks about 130th out of 350 D1 schools in average attendence. Marshall was 100th, with under 6,000 per game.

[MUMac]

Remember, the Resch center is on the west side of Green Bay, while the campus is on the North East side of town. No easy way to get there for the students. A 25 minute or so drive. That impacts student attendance, greatly. UWGB would have been better with the Resch on campus, or near it, but the city wanted it near the Arena and Lambeau Field.

[IWB]

UWGB has a GREAT facility on campus. They designed it after the McGuire Center, with the mindset to add just a little more to every aspect. However, the men's team can't play there. It is either that they were in a long term contract with the Resch Center or is it that the Horizon requires a certain amount of seating? I can't remember why, maybe MU/Panther knows.

In my opinion, even though the Resch Center is cool as it is a great facility and across the street from Lambeau, they should play on campus.

[unclejohn]

It sure wasn't a sympathetic article on Begel's part, but I have sometimes thought the same thing. Why does UWM even have a D-1 program? Realistically, I cannot see UWM ever becoming a major program. Historically, it has been pretty bad. When they first went to D-1, they ran up some impressive records, and a few people thought they were pretty good. They weren't. They were the very best weak independent team in the country. They won a lot of games against really bad teams. One year they finished with close to the best record in the country, beat Wisconsin, swept Green Bay, and thought they were a really good team. The other side of it is that they picked up a loss against Missouri Kansas City when they had to play there, almost lost to Chicago State at home after Marquette had beaten the same team by 50 earlier in the season, and when they did play an actual good team, Rick Majerus's Utah team beat them by 40 at their place. Then their first coach got fired for cheating with his expense account, they hired local AAU coach and former Marquette assistant Ric Cobb, and they were one of the worst teams in the country for a few years. The big change was not the hiring of Bruce Pearl, but the hiring of Bo Ryan, who in two years got them from terrible, to not as bad, to about average in a small conference. Of course, Bo quickly left.

Pearl had a nice run, but some people who spend too much time on message boards might have observed that even the most passionate UWM defender, the guy who kept insisting that Marquette had to play UWM because it was "good for basketball in the state," thought Pearl was pretty slimy when he was at UWM, and doesn't want him back. And of course, Pearl left as well.

UWM is a second-tier state university. Nothing wrong with that. I had a couple nephews who went there, and they got a decent education. When they arrived, they heard the typical stuff about how Marquette used to play UWM all the time, then UWM got good and we wouldn't any more. Then they forgot about it. I don't think either one of them went to a game in four years. But they did meet Jimmy Butler at a party, thought he was a nice guy, and cheered for him at Marquette. UWM's attendance figures are not hard to find. The NCAA posts them every year. For years, UWM has drawn somewhere between 2000-3500. Of course, that is paid attendance, so there are not always that many fans in attendance. Often, it is well under 1000. The year Bo took over and demanded a home game, UWM drew 800 a game. So I have to wonder why UWM needs a D-1 program. They have a huge student body and lots of local alums, almost all of whom are totally indifferent to the athletic department. UWM might be the second state university in the state, but it is not UCLA. It is hard to see them ever becoming a significant athletic school, and I do not see the athletic department being that important to advancing as a university. I know they have tried to step up their engineering program recently. Do any of those engineering students care about basketball? When I was around, UWM was actually pretty well regarded nationally for architecture. I doubt a single architect cares about basketball. And I really question that as a factor to building solid academic programs. I had a friend who attended Northern Illinois at a time when it had one of the better programs in adult learning in the country and was earning an international reputation. Yes, I know. NIU has a great football team and went to the Orange Bowl last year. But at the time, they were terrible, were playing in the Big West conference because they couldn't find anywhere else to play, and nobody cared. But their adult learning program was pretty good.

That seems to me to be what second-tier state universities can do. They can be solid enough in most fields, really good in a few, and hope for the best. Most are not going to be among the elite universities in the country, and athletics is not likely to help much. In Chicago, UIC is getting a better academic reputation, but not because of its athletics. It is nicknamed The University of Indians and Chinese, as local Asians have figured out that it is a relative bargain to get a good enough education. If UWM wants to build a notable athletic program, it would have to pour resources into it for the long haul. That is tough to do. It takes some commitment from the administration, and UWM has had its problems. I am not sure what caused them to go through so many AD's, but clearly they were not on the same page as the administration. And the administration tends to change, since UWM is largely a stepping-stone for administrators as well as coaches. The last chancellor who was big on athletics left for Cincinnati, where she promptly fired Bob Huggins. Even when she was behind it and trying to build the UWM brand and campus solidarity, most of the UWM community were totally indifferent except for a couple weeks in March. I suspect it would take a decade or so of success on the court before additional attention and spending paid off for UWM, and even then, it is iffy. I have to think that a D-2 or even D-3 program would accomplish about as much as the current one does, allow students to participate if they are interested, give alums someone to cheer for if their teams are good in a given year, and cost a lot less.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

It sure wasn't a sympathetic article on Begel's part, but I have sometimes thought the same thing. Why does UWM even have a D-1 program? Realistically, I cannot see UWM ever becoming a major program. Historically, it has been pretty bad. When they first went to D-1, they ran up some impressive records, and a few people thought they were pretty good. They weren't. They were the very best weak independent team in the country. They won a lot of games against really bad teams. One year they finished with close to the best record in the country, beat Wisconsin, swept Green Bay, and thought they were a really good team. The other side of it is that they picked up a loss against Missouri Kansas City when they had to play there, almost lost to Chicago State at home after Marquette had beaten the same team by 50 earlier in the season, and when they did play an actual good team, Rick Majerus's Utah team beat them by 40 at their place. Then their first coach got fired for cheating with his expense account, they hired local AAU coach and former Marquette assistant Ric Cobb, and they were one of the worst teams in the country for a few years. The big change was not the hiring of Bruce Pearl, but the hiring of Bo Ryan, who in two years got them from terrible, to not as bad, to about average in a small conference. Of course, Bo quickly left.

I get where you are coming from, but the problem I believe is the personnel. We've seen the program have success, and while they weren't able to sustain it beyond Ryan and Pearl, that's mostly because they have done such a poor job with Jeter's contract. Get rid of him and they may be able to turn it around.

Here's the thing...schools like Gonzaga, Butler, and VCU have all built successful, sustained programs out of not a whole heck of a lot. Even if you want to look further down the chain, how about Davidson, Oakland, and Belmont? Milwaukee certainly has a large enough market to put butts in seats. As was mentioned earlier, their attendance was in the top 130 in the country. Maybe not great, but if you figure the major conferences probably account for about 70% of the top 100, that puts UWM in the range of 60th out of 280 schools. Being in the top quarter of the mid-majors isn't all that bad.

So your attendance, despite what Begel says, isn't as atrocious as it may seem. They need to start with an AD that is invested in the school and program. Someone that can make a decent hire, even after the first guy leaves for a better job. That's how Butler and VCU became respectable. They followed up good hires with good hires. Next, and this is where they most recently missed the boat, be proactive in moving up the conference ladder. I have a feeling the A-10 would love a decent Milwaukee program. It would immediately be one of their biggest markets. But you need someone able to push for that move. As the dominoes fall, there are open spots. UWM should be trying to get into one of those. An invested AD, a coach that can put something together, and an aggressive plan to improve conference stature could make Milwaukee relevant.

Will they ever be a major program? No, probably not. Schools like VCU and Butler may have built sustained success, but not everyone will be so fortunate. But if Milwaukee was good enough to regularly be a NIT/CBI team with occasional NCAA berths, that'd be a major win. And I really don't think it's necessarily that far away, though as their administration seems to be set up at the moment, it may as well be light years.

[unclejohn]

I will respectfully disagree. First, I do not think Jeter is such a bad coach. His record is right around .500, which, all things being equal, is where one would expect a record to be. He's had his ups and downs, most recently downs. But he has had some ups. He had a great year with what was left of Pearl's program, but there was not that much in the pipeline. And Jeter lost a bunch of the players left behind by Pearl. Some have suggested, unbelievable as it may seem, that perhaps Bruce did not always run the squeaky-cleanest program, or recruit the most dedicated and pure-of-heart student/athletes, and his successor had to clean things up. He did. Jeter went back to Square One and rebuilt the program. He got them a league championship, but they couldn't beat Butler. Along the way, he had some hits and misses. The big fat juco guy who scored lots of points was a hit. The two kids from Chicago Simeon who dropped out after a semester were misses. Those are the kids mid-major coaches have to take a chance on. Buzz would never have touched them. It seems to me he is getting a whole lot of money for a coach with a .500 record in a crummy conference, but part of that was the luck of signing a big contract so that he wouldn't go to Iowa State.

As for attendance, I take it with a grain of salt. Last year, UWM had reported attendance of about 4200. Pretty good for them, and significantly better than they had reached in recent years, including years when they were actually good, and drew a couple sell-out crowds at the Arena. They also moved back to campus, which suggests to me that the people at the games were almost all students who got in for free. I also suspect that they counted everyone who might have been on campus during a game or something. In any case, their attendance in recent years has been closer to 3000 most years. That might put them in the top X% in the country, but so what? If you look at the numbers, there are about 50 teams that average in five figures. (Marquette btw was 13th. That is seven spots lower than our new conference rival Creighton.) But after that bunch, there is a huge drop off. So top half or top quarter doesn't really matter. They are nowhere near the top 50 or so.

But there are not that many smaller programs that have had sustained success. You named most of them. And though teams can move up in the pecking order, it is really tough. Butler was good under a procession of coaches for the better part of two decades before they got into the A-10 and then the Big East, and even then, there was some luck involved. Stevens is a great coach, but making two consecutive finals is catching lightning in a bottle. Gonzaga has done it mostly under one coach who has shown a perverse refusal to go to a big school and chase lots of money. VCU is a bit more interesting, since it has experienced various degrees of success for decades, long before UWM even had a D-1 program. They were competitive in the Sun Belt, which got them into the Metro. They have had ups and downs as well, but they have done it for a long time.

More common are the mid-majors who come up and go down depending on one particular good coach. East Tennessee has done pretty well under Murry Bartow, so he'll probably get hired somewhere else. Not sure about Belmont. Long Beach is doing quite well under Don Monson. This is their first successful run since Seth Greenberg coached them in the 90's, which was their first successful run since Tark the Shark coached them in the 70's. Very few programs do it on a sustained basis. If UWM wanted to, it would have to make a commitment, stick to it, and spend significant money. Build a new practice facility. Get serious about an on-campus arena. A few things like that. And I have to question whether it is worth it. Do they get more bang for their buck doing that, or pouring their money into their engineering school? Even if they could have the long-term success of the likes of VCU or Davidson (and they have nowhere near the tradition or resources of Davidson) would it be worth it? I think it makes sense for a school like Loyola to jump at a chance to join the MVC. They can use the publicity. They can potentially recruit some local players, garner some local interest, and perhaps attract some more students. But UWM? Where is the payoff? They are going to get students anyway, and mostly the same type of students, regardless of athletics. Take a look at the MAC teams. Several of them are similar in attendance and enrollment to UWM. Yes, it is exciting on campus when Western Michigan wins, but they'll still be there if they lose. So where is the payoff? It seems to me that UWM might well create as much excitement and get as much coverage with a really competitive D-3 team, like Whitewater in football.

[IWB]

On the question of whether or not Jeter is a good coach, here is my opinion. Jeter can coach, but I see one problem. I will use the UW vs MU example.

Bo Ryan's players are not a good fit for Buzz Williams' system.
Buzz Williams' players are not a good fit for Bo Ryan's system.

Rob Jeter repeatedly recruits athletic, run up and down type players, but plays a slowed down methodical offense. He needs to either change the type of player he recruits, or change the system he uses.

Just an opinion.

[TheSultan]

More common are the mid-majors who come up and go down depending on one particular good coach. East Tennessee has done pretty well under Murry Bartow, so he'll probably get hired somewhere else. Not sure about Belmont. Long Beach is doing quite well under Don Monson. This is their first successful run since Seth Greenberg coached them in the 90's, which was their first successful run since Tark the Shark coached them in the 70's. Very few programs do it on a sustained basis. If UWM wanted to, it would have to make a commitment, stick to it, and spend significant money. Build a new practice facility. Get serious about an on-campus arena. A few things like that. And I have to question whether it is worth it. Do they get more bang for their buck doing that, or pouring their money into their engineering school? Even if they could have the long-term success of the likes of VCU or Davidson (and they have nowhere near the tradition or resources of Davidson) would it be worth it? I think it makes sense for a school like Loyola to jump at a chance to join the MVC. They can use the publicity. They can potentially recruit some local players, garner some local interest, and perhaps attract some more students. But UWM? Where is the payoff? They are going to get students anyway, and mostly the same type of students, regardless of athletics. Take a look at the MAC teams. Several of them are similar in attendance and enrollment to UWM. Yes, it is exciting on campus when Western Michigan wins, but they'll still be there if they lose. So where is the payoff? It seems to me that UWM might well create as much excitement and get as much coverage with a really competitive D-3 team, like Whitewater in football.


I think what you are touching on is something that I have tried to articulate. Any program can make a decent run in basketball if they hire the right coach. However to sustain over the long term they need money and facilities. That is why Marquette has been so successful...the only coach since Al not to make the NCAA tournament was Bob Dukiet - and then his successor got them to the S16 just a few years later. These resources carry you through the bad times - you can make coaching changes quicker and have a lot more to offer a quality candidate.

I have mixed thoughts on the whole D1 v. D3 thing. D3 isn't going to do much for them. Stevens Point is one of the best D3 programs in the country basketball wise and they are completely struggling with enrollment, fundraising, etc. It really does nothing for them. Now football has helped Whitewater, but football is different. It just is. It's once a week. You have tailgating. It's a more popular sport.

To me UWM either should go all in an athletics or just drop it entirely.

[MayorBeluga]

However to sustain over the long term they need money and facilities. That is why Marquette has been so successful...the only coach since Al not to make the NCAA tournament was Bob Dukiet - and then his successor got them to the S16 just a few years later. These resources carry you through the bad times - you can make coaching changes quicker and have a lot more to offer a quality candidate.

Big Rick did not make the NCAA tournament in his three seasons as head coach. OK, that's nit-picking (or would that be NIT-picking?). Otherwise, the premise stands. It takes a university wide commitment to sustain success. Thankfully Marquette has had that over the decades, starting with donors and fans who pressure the administration.

[TheSultan]

Big Rick did not make the NCAA tournament in his three seasons as head coach. OK, that's nit-picking (or would that be NIT-picking?). Otherwise, the premise stands. It takes a university wide commitment to sustain success. Thankfully Marquette has had that over the decades, starting with donors and fans who pressure the administration.


Ha. Thanks. I actually thought about looking it up before posting because I wasn't quite sure. I was too lazy to do so.

[IWB]

Big difference, the Tourney was 48 teams in Rick's first year.

Just kidding for those that take everything so literally.

[ge1974]

Big Rick did not make the NCAA tournament in his three seasons as head coach. OK, that's nit-picking (or would that be NIT-picking?). Otherwise, the premise stands. It takes a university wide commitment to sustain success. Thankfully Marquette has had that over the decades, starting with donors and fans who pressure the administration.

Mr. Mayor is correct, although I would say MU did need a larger commitment to basketball than they had in the mid 80's-early 90's. We had to get out of the Midwest Collegiate Conference and we did so by going to the Great Midwest, then on to C-USA. However, one of the reasons Kevin O'Neill left MU for Tenn. was "lack of facilities" at MU. The Old Gym was charming but young recruits were not looking for "charming".

Thanks to the many donors and commitment from the university The AL McGuire center is a state of the art facility and a big feather in MU's cap for recruitng, as is the Big East conference. The players dorm was another great selling point and hopefully, that situation will be rectified in the near future with different school leadership.

[MU/Panther]

UWGB has a GREAT facility on campus. They designed it after the McGuire Center, with the mindset to add just a little more to every aspect. However, the men's team can't play there. It is either that they were in a long term contract with the Resch Center or is it that the Horizon requires a certain amount of seating? I can't remember why, maybe MU/Panther knows.

In my opinion, even though the Resch Center is cool as it is a great facility and across the street from Lambeau, they should play on campus.

The Horizon League rule is that you need 5,000 seats. The rule really can't be used to strong because Loyola upgraded their arena and it went under 5,000. Oakland who joined the HL this year, their arena seats under 5,000.

Rob Demovsky has said about Green Bay, that weekend should be at the Resch Center and during the week games on campus.

[IWB]

Rob Demovsky shouldn't be able to talk about Green Bay hoops any longer, nor should Jason Wilde.

[TheSultan]

Rob Demovsky shouldn't be able to talk about Green Bay hoops any longer, nor should Jason Wilde.


Wilde never did. Demovsky has moved on to ESPN, and I'm pretty sure he only covers the Packers.

But that doesn't mean that his opinion about their arena situation is wrong.

[IWB]

Wilde never did? Wrong.

On ESPN radio in Milwaukee the day after Demovsky's Wardle article Wilde was on with Drew Olson. Wilde went off on Wardle, saying things like, "He should never be allowed to coach again"......"He shouldn't even be allowed to coach a YMCA team"....."I don't want him anywhere near my kids".... and so on and so on. It was clear listening to it, that Olson pretty much did the old 'walk back out of the room backwards' because it was that uncomfortable.

[TheSultan]

Wilde never did? Wrong.

On ESPN radio in Milwaukee the day after Demovsky's Wardle article Wilde was on with Drew Olson. Wilde went off on Wardle, saying things like, "He should never be allowed to coach again"......"He shouldn't even be allowed to coach a YMCA team"....."I don't want him anywhere near my kids".... and so on and so on. It was clear listening to it, that Olson pretty much did the old 'walk back out of the room backwards' because it was that uncomfortable.


OK...I thought you meant "covering" and not simply "talking about"...even though that is clearly what you said.

[Gato78]

And Wilde came to those opinions without knowing a single, provable fact about the allegations--or perhaps he was relying on Demovsky's reporting which was based solely on the statements of a former player who was deemed entirely incredible by the independent investigator. Some of the worst journalism I have ever seen because it was dependent upon incredible people. Yet, the journalists say that they were just reporting what was said to them. I guess if IWB tells Demovsky that Brett Favre is coming back to play for the Packers he would have to report it by that standard.

[IWB]

Are you saying my credibility is as bad as Bross'? Ouch.

[unclejohn]

It does take commitment, and it took Marquette too long to get it, which is one of the reasons (perhaps the primary one) that O'Neill left. People might not have been happy about Mike Deane's expectations for the program, but they might have been about right if the university was not going to spend more money and build the Al, as it did under Crean. There are different levels of commitment of course. Supposedly what got Loyola into the MVC, as opposed to some other candidates, was a commitment to spend some money. But I do not expect to see Marquette competing with Loyola for too many players soon.

But that still does not answer the question about payoff. Why should UWM be good? Not long ago, I shot some graduation pictures at Platteville. They still have larger-than-life pictures of Bo Ryan at the entrance of their gym. It is a pretty big school, big enough to have a football team, and probably not too far from UWM in enrollment. They got really excited about those D-3 championships. So suppose UWM could develop a really good lower division program? I would have to think they could create enough excitement to get the 3000 or so fans they typically get to show up, and they might even fill the arena in the playoffs. Of course, you are right. They might be just like Stevens Point - excellent and anonymous. But they are pretty anonymous right now, but at a much bigger price tag.

[TheSultan]

Only one D3 team drew 2,000 plus a game last year...Hope College. 14 more drew more than 1,000...including UWSP. The rest all were under 1,000.

[IWB]

Only one D3 team drew 2,000 plus a game last year...Hope College. 14 more drew more than 1,000...including UWSP. The rest all were under 1,000.

That is pretty bad when you look at the enrollments of the schools in the WIAC.

[TheSultan]

That is pretty bad when you look at the enrollments of the schools in the WIAC.


I don't think intercollegiate athletics hold much interest for most students at WIAC-like schools. There are exceptions, but outside of a few diehards, it just doesn't have the social aspect that a Marquette game...or a Badger football game...provides. I have a nephew who was a real good athlete in high school and watches sports all of the time. He is a frosh at UW-Lax, and he told me went to the first football game, left at half and hasn't been to a game since. I think that is a pretty common experience.

[TulsaWarrior]

It's ironic that after all the $%#! thrown Wardle's way he has the most talented, most together group of athletes he's ever had on campus. IWB's point on recruiting players that fit your system is something Wardle seems to have adopted. Looking at his run as a head coach he has transitioned from slow shooters game to more of an uptempo approach.

[Goose85]

UWM should try to bring Bruce Pearl back once his show clause is over.