ACC and MSG

[Markedman]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9278832/acc-investigating-playing-conference-tournament-madison-square-garden-sources-say

[kneelb4zerg]

Love this "breaking news" from ESPN -- ACC will consider playing in MSG. No ****!

[Goose85]

Not sure what the benchmarks are, but I sure hope like heck the new Big East meets them because no way do I want to see the ACC playing the conference tournament at MSG. Need to make sure the tourney will be sold out, which hopefully can be done. A successful St. John's wouldn't hurt.

[TheSultan]

Yeah, but I don't think this has been reported previously:

"Sources said MSG can get out of its deal before 2026 if the new Big East doesn't reach certain benchmarks."

[Goose85]

So the now arrogant ACC is looking to work with MSG assuming that the new Big East won't hit their benchmarks (which I'd guess are attendance driven).

I really can't stand the ACC, and I hope Louisville dominates that conference for years to come.

[TheSultan]

Well, the BE has nothing to worry about as long as they hit the benchmarks. I mean, if the shoe was on the other foot and we were trying to leverage the A10 out of the Barclays Center, we would have no problem with the tactic.

[MUBasketball]

I mean, if the shoe was on the other foot and we were trying to leverage the A10 out of the Barclays Center, we would have no problem with the tactic.

Great point.

Who can blame them for thinking of going to MSG? It's every university and every conference for themselves nowadays, everybody is looking for their best interest. Let's just hope the first conference tournament for the new Big East at the Garden is a huge success.

[Goose85]

Great point.

Who can blame them for thinking of going to MSG? It's every university and every conference for themselves nowadays, everybody is looking for their best interest. Let's just hope the first conference tournament for the new Big East at the Garden is a huge success.

Agree that it is everyone for themselves and screw the others now.

I just think it is more than unusual that the ACC, through ESPN, would according to the article say "We'll be playing there," a source said. "It's just a matter of getting all the legal ramifications worked out."

The building is booked through 2026, yet the ACC says they will be playing there and does so publicly through ESPN.

Sounds like the ACC, and I'd guess with ESPN's help, is trying to find a way for MSG to break their deal with the Big East and go with the ACC.

[IWB]

Here is what kills me.....

"Why shouldn't the premier basketball conference play in the world's premier arena?"

"No matter what business model you're in, if you're the best -- and our league is the best -- you should take it to New York," a source said.

While true, that is a pretty sh*tty thing to do. Raid the Big East, then boast about being the best and taking over their venue? That is BS. Screw the ACC.

[BLT]

This is about the fourth time ESPN and the ACC floated this...really would help the new BE to friggin name a commish and staff to get the positive pr machine rolling.

[pbiflyer]

Or at least have the ADs of the leading schools refute this.

[CaribouJim]

Next year will be very important. EVERY Big East team needs to re-invest some of the extra dough they are getting into making next year's tourney attendance to be be as close to normal years if not more and that won't be easy - 5 less teams next year and no UCONN and SU. Ticket allocations per team I assume will be up due to the decrease in teams. Has MU ever had chartered planes to the BE tourney like the FF flights in '03? If not they need to. As far as UCONN, if there was a fail-safe way to ensure that UCONN and a Cinci wouldn't later bolt, I wouldn't mind making them the 11th and 12th teams - UCONN presence would certainly help the BE retain the MSG.

I really love this quote that IWB posted: "Why shouldn't the premier basketball conference play in the world's premier arena?" So in essence, he is admitting that the ACC wasn't the premier conference.

As far as the tourney goes, will it be the first 6 teams getting a bye on Wednesday and then 8 on Thursday, 4 on Friday and final 2 on Saturday?

[pbiflyer]

I bypassed this year's tourney specifically to ensure I could attend next year's.

[DCwarrior]

Love this "breaking news" from ESPN -- ACC will consider playing in MSG. No ****!

Exactly. Did anyone really expect the ACC not to go after the Garden for their tourney? The earliest they could get it is 2022 so the Big East has 6-7 years to really prove itself.

We really need the headquarters to be in NYC (possibly inside MSG).

[IWB]

The earliest they could get it is 2022 so the Big East has 6-7 years to really prove itself.


Actually, the latest article says the Big East's contract has performance requirements, so if they do not meet them, MSG can show them the door.

[MUMac]

Actually, the latest article says the Big East's contract has performance requirements, so if they do not meet them, MSG can show them the door.

I believe this quote from the article is the basis for DCwarrior's comment:

"The official deadline to bid for the 2016-21 ACC men's basketball tournaments was last September. Madison Square Garden did not submit a bid but still would be allowed to pursue future tournaments, a source said."

[ge1974]

More from Andy Katz this morning:

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/84656/3-point-shot-acc-and-msg

1. The ACC coaches want to get the conference tournament in Madison Square Garden and discussed it at length during the league meetings in Amelia Island, Fla., on Tuesday and Wednesday. But whether or not they can pull that off is out of their control. MSG has long wanted a regular tenant, based on the busy March schedule with outside events, as well as primary hosts the Rangers and Knicks. The ACC is reviewing MSG's deal with the new Big East. MSG is unlikely going to go with a conference that would only make a cameo in the building every so often. The ACC is not going to move the conference tournament out of North Carolina (Greensboro or Charlotte) for more than one year every three or four years. If MSG wanted to maximize the opportunity it has in front of it then it should get the Big East to move its tournament to early in championship week and take the ACC the latter part of the week. If not, then the ACC has to see if it can wedge its way into the Barclays Center in Brooklyn around the A-10, or push the A-10 to play earlier in the week. Meanwhile, as expected, C-USA voted Wednesday at its league meetings to have all 16 teams go to the 2014 C-USA tournament in El Paso.

[MUMac]

More from Andy Katz this morning:

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/84656/3-point-shot-acc-and-msg

1. The ACC coaches want to get the conference tournament in Madison Square Garden and discussed it at length during the league meetings in Amelia Island, Fla., on Tuesday and Wednesday. But whether or not they can pull that off is out of their control. MSG has long wanted a regular tenant, based on the busy March schedule with outside events, as well as primary hosts the Rangers and Knicks. The ACC is reviewing MSG's deal with the new Big East. MSG is unlikely going to go with a conference that would only make a cameo in the building every so often. The ACC is not going to move the conference tournament out of North Carolina (Greensboro or Charlotte) for more than one year every three or four years. If MSG wanted to maximize the opportunity it has in front of it then it should get the Big East to move its tournament to early in championship week and take the ACC the latter part of the week. If not, then the ACC has to see if it can wedge its way into the Barclays Center in Brooklyn around the A-10, or push the A-10 to play earlier in the week. Meanwhile, as expected, C-USA voted Wednesday at its league meetings to have all 16 teams go to the 2014 C-USA tournament in El Paso.

The ACC is quickly overtaking the Big 10 for the A-Hole Conference award.

[IWB]

Agree Mac - Here are the points that stuck out to me
More from Andy Katz this morning:

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/84656/3-point-shot-acc-and-msg

The ACC is reviewing MSG's deal with the new Big East.

it should get the Big East to move its tournament to early in championship week and take the ACC the latter part of the week.

push the A-10 to play earlier in the week.

Why would they be able to review the Big East's contract? That is between the Big East and MSG, and the ACC should not be able to "review it".

Push the Big East to earlier? Push the A-10 to earlier? Who in the hell do they think they are?


Also, C-USA agreed to their conference tourney in El-Paso? Thank God MU found a way to get to the Big East.

[ValiantSailor]

What stood out to me was this:

"MSG is unlikely going to go with a conference that would only make a cameo in the building every so often. The ACC is not going to move the conference tournament out of North Carolina (Greensboro or Charlotte) for more than one year every three or four years."

The ACC is based in Carolina. They will continue to play the majority of their tournament games there. Very unlikely that the MSG gives up a permanent deal (BE) for one that might appear every four years. Not to mention Boeheim will be retiring soon. Who knows if 'Cuse will be relevant after that.

VS

[TheSultan]

It would be interesting to see what exactly some of the provisions in the contract are. I mean, if they fail to meet certain performance targets, can the MSG move the BE to earlier in the week?

But I agree with VS. If one of the drivers for MSG is to have permanence, the BE is going to be fine as long as people show up.

[Mucrisco]

I think this a reason to invite Dayton. They probably are more likely to bring fans to the tournament, than a St. Louis. Also, I'm guessing that this is a reason to have more than 10 teams in the conference, as well.

[TedBaxter]

I'm not a big professional sports guy, but at least the pro teams work together, for the most part, for the good of the leagues members. The college conferences are now all out for themselves and apparantly out to screw each other over.

[Mucrisco]

I guess in both instances, they are trying to maximize their profit.

[TheSultan]

I'm not a big professional sports guy, but at least the pro teams work together, for the most part, for the good of the leagues members. The college conferences are now all out for themselves and apparantly out to screw each other over.

Makes perfect sense since the television contracts (the main source of money) are negotiated with the league in the case of professional sports...and the conference in the case of college sports.

[Goose85]

I would think a big university like VCU, that is also east coast with easy travel to NY and the Garden, who is basketball only and successful would be a great add to help keep the Garden and raise the league's profile.

[MUMac]

I would think a big university like VCU, that is also east coast with easy travel to NY and the Garden, who is basketball only and successful would be a great add to help keep the Garden and raise the league's profile.

I don't know if they would travel or not. Their arena holds 7,500 and they have not been able to fill that:

http://aroundthehorns.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/vcu-success-attendance-go-hand-in-hand/

[MU/Panther]

They are missing the last two seasons in those numbers. I saw alot of the A-10 tourney and VCU fans did travel in solid numbers.

[MUAlphaBangura]

I think this a reason to invite Dayton. They probably are more likely to bring fans to the tournament, than a St. Louis. Also, I'm guessing that this is a reason to have more than 10 teams in the conference, as well.

You may be right Crisco. Hopefully MSG will be accomodating the first few years to allow the conference to grow up a little bit before the performance targets are instituted. Kind of changes the dynamics of our many conversations on this board about who should be the next two members. Anybody still on board with Gonzaga? Realistically, how many fans would they bring annually to NYC for the conference tourney?

[Goose85]

I didn't realize the ACC was this bad in football from a BCS standpoint. Ranked 8th among conferences and only 3 BCS bowl wins.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/22247011/onfield-results-dont-come-close-to-matching-potential-for-acc

[BLT]

The new Big East paid a hefty sum for the MSG tourney rights to the AAC, they better damn well have a good plan to fill the joynt up and have proper protections in the amended tourney contract. Then again, no permanent commisioner is yet in place or their staff...tick, tock.

[MUMac]

They are missing the last two seasons in those numbers. I saw alot of the A-10 tourney and VCU fans did travel in solid numbers.

I realize they are missing the last two years. Still, they had not sold out their 7,500 seat facility. I don't know what solid numbers mean or how that translates into a BE Tournament at the MSG. Counting on VCU to travel to the tournament may not be the best.

[Goose85]

We could really use someone speaking on behalf of the Big East right now.

[TheSultan]

Why? What would they say? The Big East has a contract with MSG, and they don't need to respond to every little blurb posted on ESPN.

[Goose85]

Why? What would they say? The Big East has a contract with MSG, and they don't need to respond to every little blurb posted on ESPN.

Exactly. Put out a response that the Big East has a contract to play at MSG until 2026 and the Big East fully intends to play there through 2026.

ESPN is trying to set the expectation that the ACC will be there, it would be nice for an official response to set ESPN straight and let them know they don't call all the shots.

[Goose85]

From Zagsblog. Zagoria indicates that ESPN really wants to get it done.

http://zagsblog.com/articles/boeheim-syracuse-recruits-want-acc-tourney-at-msg/#more-96312

[TheSultan]

Exactly. Put out a response that the Big East has a contract to play at MSG until 2026 and the Big East fully intends to play there through 2026.


Again...why? Based on something reported on ESPN? There is absolutely no reason to do this regardless of the message board hang-wringing. They can't respond to every challenge or slight.

[IWB]

Why? Well, now with ESPN, Bilas, coaches and recruits commenting on this, it is becoming more of a real issue. You can only absorb so many shots before the general public starts to believe it should happen. The Big East needs to stake their claim instead of sitting back and being picked apart. The 'sit back and wait to see what develops' mentality is why the Big East was picked apart instead of the Big 12.

Time to put on the gloves and come out swinging before we are stuck playing the conference tourney in a second tier facility/city.

[TheSultan]

Why? Well, now with ESPN, Bilas, coaches and recruits commenting on this, it is becoming more of a real issue. You can only absorb so many shots before the general public starts to believe it should happen. The Big East needs to stake their claim instead of sitting back and being picked apart. The 'sit back and wait to see what develops' mentality is why the Big East was picked apart instead of the Big 12.

Time to put on the gloves and come out swinging before we are stuck playing the conference tourney in a second tier facility/city.


In what way is saying something publicly going to protect an existing contract any more than by simply letting the talking heads talk?

I would definitely have talking points ready unless people are contacted for a response, and I would have someone put in a call to MSG have a gentle conversation about its relationship with the BE, but there is absolutely no need to say anything proactively.

[Goose85]

For the most part sports fans all get their sports news from ESPN. Having high school kids, I know that is their source of sports info. Now recruits that are going to Syracuse are talking about it. ESPN is all but promoting it. Why should MSG comment, they are likely going to be the benefactor if the ACC and ESPN pay more for their show at the Garden.

Right now there is nobody to contact from the Big East to get a response to the story. So basically the ACC and ESPN are telling the sports world that they will be having their tourney at the Garden. It's being reported by ESPN, so most expect it to happen. It would be nice for once for the Big East to stand up for itself and step in and say the Big East and MSG are partners and we expect to host our tourney through 2026 so I'm not sure what the ACC folks are talking about.

Contracts can always be bought out. ESPN gets enough momentum on this I could see MSG saying, hey Big East, for $10 mil how about you skip a couple years.

[TheSultan]

Really? Now *this* is going to negatively affect recruiting???

This isn't even going to be a story by the weekend. It's barely a story now. The front page of ESPN doesn't mention it...neither does Sports Illustrated. (The front page of ESPN college basketball does, along with the idea of the ACC looking Barclays BTW. I don't see the Atlantic 10 making a statement.)

[Gato78]

This is just stupid talk. ACC boys letting Boeheim and Dixon blow off some steam. There are contracts in place and I am sure MSG has guaranteed money. Would it be better for MSG to have what is probably the same guaranteed money every year or once every 5 years? There is no way the old ACC teams will give Syracuse their home court advantage enjoyed in Greensboro, Charlotte or even Atlanta.

[ge1974]

Even the Jersey Guy says it isn'tt going to happen:

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=6869

I think ESPN is already sent a salvo at the upcoming Fox1 Sports Network with this "leak".

[Goose85]

I guess my point is that if we want to be one of the big boy conferences this might have been a good time to show it. If ESPN and the ACC were talking about hosting their tourney at a venue the Big 10 had locked up for the next 13 years and acted as if it was going to be a done deal, do you think Delaney and the Big 10 would not issue a response?

I'd like for the Big East to tell the ACC to stick it, probably because I can't stand the ACC.

[IWB]

I agree Goo. Like I said, sitting back and saying nothing and waiting to see how things played out is exactly how the Big East was raided in the first place.

Actually, in the midst of this crap today would be the perfect time for the Big East to name a commissioner. Have whoever that is have a press conference where he/she stands up and states that the conference tourney is at MSG and that it won't change.

And yes Sultan, things like this can play against you in recruiting.

[Gato78]

Playing in the Garden is a big deal for every high school player. Novak and Grimm were jacked when their 1st regular season college game was at MSG. It definitely affects recruiting.

[TheSultan]

I guess my point is that if we want to be one of the big boy conferences this might have been a good time to show it. If ESPN and the ACC were talking about hosting their tourney at a venue the Big 10 had locked up for the next 13 years and acted as if it was going to be a done deal, do you think Delaney and the Big 10 would not issue a response?


First, the ACC isn't acting as if its a done deal.

Second, the B10 wouldn't make a response if Big East coaches were talking about moving their tournament to the United Center, and Andy Katz put that on a blurb on a non-descript story in May.

[TheSultan]

I agree Goo. Like I said, sitting back and saying nothing and waiting to see how things played out is exactly how the Big East was raided in the first place.


What exactly could the BE have done to prevent it from being raided? It was the low man on the totem pole. Once those above them wanted to expand, losing members was inevitable.

And I will say the BE was already proactive with regards to MSG...they signed a deal through 2026.

[IWB]

What exactly could the BE have done to prevent it from being raided? It was the low man on the totem pole. Once those above them wanted to expand, losing members was inevitable.

And I will say the BE was already proactive with regards to MSG...they signed a deal through 2026.

I will answer the second question first. There are performance stipulations. That leaves MSG with some power to make the change if they deem necessary. if the Big East falls short in 2013 or 2014, the 2026 date is absolutely meaningless. I don't think the Big East will allow that to happen, but 10 schools as opposed to 16, and Butler and Creighton as opposed to Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame and Rutgers could be a HUGE shift in ticket sales.

Now to the first question - What could they have done? Think back....

Remember the headlines? Remember the Big 12 getting raided and falling apart with Texas A&M and Missouri leaving? Offers extended for the Texas and Oklahoma schools to join the PAC 12?

Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor and Iowa State were begging to come to the Big East!!! Yes, they wanted into the Big East. I even spoke to people in a Big 12 athletic dept about this.

So what happened?

The Big 12 presidents gathered together, fired their commissioner, banded together and became stronger then they ever had been.
The Big East did nothing.

Moves started happening again.
The Big 12 took WVU.
The ACC upped their exit fee to $50 million.
The Big East raised their exit fee by $5 million.

The ACC took Pitt and Syracuse.
The Big East started adding C-USA schools.

The ACC took Louisville and Notre Dame.
The Big East added Tulane.

The Big 10 took Rutgers.
The Big East did nothing.

Fact is, Fox paid $500 million for a 10 team basketball only league. Without Syracuse, without Louisville, without UConn, without Pitt, without Notre Dame. Had the schools fired the commissioner, banded together and gone about their business the way that the Big 12 did, what would Fox have paid for the 'Old Big East'?

The Big East sat back and did nothing.

[Gato78]

All true BUT Pitt and Syracuse tainted the process because they were negotiating with the ACC throughout so the inaction may well have been motivated by Pitt and Syracuse making their own departures easier. Make no mistake, both schools were in leadership positions in the conference.

[MU/Panther]

I realize they are missing the last two years. Still, they had not sold out their 7,500 seat facility. I don't know what solid numbers mean or how that translates into a BE Tournament at the MSG. Counting on VCU to travel to the tournament may not be the best.

VCU this past season and first season on the A-10, home average attendance was 7,693.

I coudn't tell or get numbers but it sounded and looked like VCU brought the most fans to the A-10 tourney.

[MU/Panther]

Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor and Iowa State were begging to come to the Big East!!! Yes, they wanted into the Big East. I even spoke to people in a Big 12 athletic dept about this.

And why is that? Big East has an BCS bowl bid. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

[pbiflyer]

I guess I never realized how pathetic the venues for the ACC have been that they want out so bad. For that matter, that the entire ACC was that bad. They had to improve football with Syracuse and Pitt?
Basketball had fallen to such depths of despair that they had to raid the BEast to make themselves decent. Wow, what an admission by the ACC. No wonder FSU and Miami so desperately wanted out.

[TheSultan]

I will answer the second question first. There are performance stipulations. That leaves MSG with some power to make the change if they deem necessary. if the Big East falls short in 2013 or 2014, the 2026 date is absolutely meaningless. I don't think the Big East will allow that to happen, but 10 schools as opposed to 16, and Butler and Creighton as opposed to Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame and Rutgers could be a HUGE shift in ticket sales.

Now to the first question - What could they have done? Think back....

Remember the headlines? Remember the Big 12 getting raided and falling apart with Texas A&M and Missouri leaving? Offers extended for the Texas and Oklahoma schools to join the PAC 12?

Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor and Iowa State were begging to come to the Big East!!! Yes, they wanted into the Big East. I even spoke to people in a Big 12 athletic dept about this.


Only as a fall back had the nightmare scenario happened with the other schools going to the Pac 12. They weren't going to leave before then. If they would have left prior to then, they would have been leaving money behind...and that would have gotten a number of people fired.

When the B10 opened Pandora's Box and said they were going to expand, it set up a chain of events where those on the bottom were inevitably going to get eaten by those above them. It was all about money, and the BE had nothing to offer.

[MU/Panther]

I didn't see anything about Miami wanting to move on. That was Clemson.

[MUMac]

VCU this past season and first season on the A-10, home average attendance was 7,693.

I coudn't tell or get numbers but it sounded and looked like VCU brought the most fans to the A-10 tourney.

Still not enough to make me want to count on them for attendance in the BE Tournament at MSG.

[MU/Panther]

We need the public of New York to sell out the Garden.

[MUMac]

Panther, I agree. The concern is that Cuse brought so many fans and who will replace those fans? I was responding to, Goose, I believe, regarding VCU. I think for the BE to succeed at MSG, they need to market it to the NY public. St. Johns and Seton Hall being viable again would not hurt, though.

[Halo]

The MSG will sell out. The BE and Fox will guarantee that it does. Each school will have to commit to X amount of tickets and be billed for it. There may be homeless people in there with free tickets, but it will sell out. They won't give the MSG a reason to walk away.

[IWB]

Only as a fall back had the nightmare scenario happened with the other schools going to the Pac 12. They weren't going to leave before then. If they would have left prior to then, they would have been leaving money behind...and that would have gotten a number of people fired.

When the B10 opened Pandora's Box and said they were going to expand, it set up a chain of events where those on the bottom were inevitably going to get eaten by those above them. It was all about money, and the BE had nothing to offer.

Yes, it was always a fall back, but instead of being raided further, the Big 12 took massive actions and forged ahead. The Big East did nothing.

To Gato's point, I agree that Pitt & Cuse were already in dirty dealing with the ACC, but the conference was still viable even after those two left.

[CaribouJim]

The MSG will sell out. The BE and Fox will guarantee that it does. Each school will have to commit to X amount of tickets and be billed for it. There may be homeless people in there with free tickets, but it will sell out. They won't give the MSG a reason to walk away.

If I were MU I would allocate a disproportionate # towards their season ticket point system for those that buy tickets through MU for at least the '14 BE tourney. It would be nice if other BE schools had some incentives too.

And maybe have SI Swimsuit models populating the baseline like I just saw at the Knicks game tonight - that can't hurt.

[TheSultan]

I am struggling to understand exactly what you thought the Big East could have done. Here is the timeline:


September 2011: Syracuse and Pitt announce they are leaving for the ACC & the Pac-12 invites Oklahoma, OSU, Texas and Texas Tech. Texas A&M to the SEC looked very likely at that point. Later that month, the BE has discussions with Kansas, KSU and Missouri about joining.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/real_big_east_j6icSyYnLFtDYQJpeeT4cN

"According to multiple sources, the most likely scenario -- should Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas and Texas Tech leave the Big 12 for the Pac-12 -- would bring Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri to the Big East."


Late September 2011: Oklahoma, Texas, et al. announce they are remaining in Big 12. A&M move to SEC official.


October 2011: Missouri invited to SEC. TCU and WVU invited to Big 12.


Fall 2011 through early 2012: Big East invites a number of schools to join...


Once the four B12 schools said "no" to the P12, and the SEC decided to expand necessitating a response from the B12, there was absolutely nothing for the BE to do. They certainly could not have negotiated a better TV deal at that point because there was such instability in membership. They weren't going to get anyone to jump from another BCS conference because they didn't have the money. Perhaps they could have found a way to entice Syracuse, Pitt and WVU to stay, but with no $$$, how were they going to do that?

Yes, Syracuse and Pitt acted in bad faith. But once the initial TV offer was turned down, and Syracuse and Pitt announced they were leaving, the end was in sight. All that's left were the details.

[MUAlphaBangura]

If I were MU I would allocate a disproportionate # towards their season ticket point system for those that buy tickets through MU for at least the '14 BE tourney. It would be nice if other BE schools had some incentives too.

And maybe have SI Swimsuit models populating the baseline like I just saw at the Knicks game tonight - that can't hurt.

I think if Caribou Jim would put calls out to all his current and former leggy supermodel "friends", MSG would have no trouble selling out!

[CaribouJim]

I think if Caribou Jim would put calls out to all his current and former leggy supermodel "friends", MSG would have no trouble selling out!

I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

[pbiflyer]

I think if Caribou Jim would put calls out to all his current and former leggy supermodel "friends", MSG would have no trouble selling out!

But would someone give them a ride from Milwaukee, or would it be another missed opportunity? ;)

[CaribouJim]

But would someone give them a ride from Milwaukee, or would it be another missed opportunity? ;)

Ouch!!!!!!

[IWB]

But would someone give them a ride from Milwaukee, or would it be another missed opportunity? ;)

Post of the week pbiflyer, that was classic!

[ziggysfryboy]

But would someone give them a ride from Milwaukee, or would it be another missed opportunity? ;)

With authority!!