Wardle investigation?

[beerhere6]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130411/GPG020110/130411080/UWGB-opens-investigation-men-s-basketball-coach?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|

[eddiedswang]

The Cerroni leaving thing is troublesome....because he is a quality kid from a good coaching family....he got in Wardle's doghouse and never made it out....he didn't seem to be in over his head on the court.....would like to see how this plays out...

The Bross leaving thing is a joke....he's a freakin walk-on....a project.....his parents were meddlesome since the 4th grade.....they were unrealistic in grade school and high school and always cackling and whining about something....nothing was ever good enough or fair....in this case, size doesn't matter....if you can't play, you can't play.....he got a shot at a D1 school.....he is better off at a lower level or just getting a degree....laugh this one off....his parents are text book, clinical, unrealistic, whining interveners....ask anyone who knows Menomonee Falls sports....MU72 agree?????

I hope Wardle can right the ship....

[IWB]

I was told Cerroni didn't like being a role player and wasn't having fun anymore.

As for Bross - I heard there was an issue a while back, the kid didn't like getting yelled at. Seeing the report say there was never any physical contact makes me believe that what I heard is exactly the case.

Do these people not realize how serious this is? This isn't just complaining about playing time, this is an NCAA investigation. This could ruin the guy. My guess is that the investigation turns up absolutely zilch - nothing. But Wardle has been doing well, and close to getting a shot at a bigger program - on the heels of the Mike Rice thing, this could prevent him from getting a bigger job even though he looks like he is ready for sainthood compared to Rice.

If something real did occur, then yes, it is serious, but I am sick and tired of parents complaining when they are completely clueless.

[BLT]

I didn't see this was a NCAA investigation...but the fact that Wardle was left on the job by the school means the administration thinks it is minor to me.

[GOMU1104]

I didn't see this was a NCAA investigation...but the fact that Wardle was left on the job by the school means the administration thinks it is minor to me.

Didn't Rutgers think what Rice did was minor?

[TheSultan]

I was told Cerroni didn't like being a role player and wasn't having fun anymore.


I heard it was a little deeper than that...nothing physical...

[BLT]

Didn't Rutgers think what Rice did was minor?
Exactly, but you would have thought after Rutgers, the UWGB admin would have put him on paid leave unless they already were very familiar with the issue. If it proves deeper, the administration just opened themselves up to a lambasting.

[MUMac]

Didn't Rutgers think what Rice did was minor?

They did suspend Rice for 3 games without pay and fined him $50,000. I would not say that they thought it was minor. They had the video. They knew what it was. They did not take the proper action at the time, but they definitely thought it was serious.

[unclejohn]

We are in sort of a super-sensitive season these days. I did not see the original OTL video of Rice, but what I saw leaked to YouTube was not all that shocking. I saw him "kick" one player, which consisted of hitting one of his legs with the side of his foot in order to get him to position it correctly. He screamed a lot. He threw a ball at somebody. I expect there was more in the original video, but what I saw was not too shocking.

Of course, his famously used some terms that would not be acceptable to the gay community, but until recently, most of America would not have been too offended by that, and I doubt that most basketball players actually are. The first thought that occurred to me was that Rick Majerus reportedly used to refer to many of his players by a slang term for female anatomy, and now everybody thinks he is a saint. Every single basketball coach who has been at Marquette since I have been a fan, with the possible exception of Hank, used less than delicate language around his players. Kevin O'Neill used to come up with obscenities that nobody had heard before. Fans with small children would be advised to keep them out of earshot of Mike Deane during games. And Buzz has mentioned that he has to clean up his mouth in public. What he says in practice is not for public consumption. Physical abuse is a whole different thing, but even there, teams practice hard, bang into each other and coaches, often on purpose, and somehow manage to survive.

[mufansince72]

The Cerroni leaving thing is troublesome....because he is a quality kid from a good coaching family....he got in Wardle's doghouse and never made it out....he didn't seem to be in over his head on the court.....would like to see how this plays out...

The Bross leaving thing is a joke....he's a freakin walk-on....a project.....his parents were meddlesome since the 4th grade.....they were unrealistic in grade school and high school and always cackling and whining about something....nothing was ever good enough or fair....in this case, size doesn't matter....if you can't play, you can't play.....he got a shot at a D1 school.....he is better off at a lower level or just getting a degree....laugh this one off....his parents are text book, clinical, unrealistic, whining interveners....ask anyone who knows Menomonee Falls sports....MU72 agree?????

I hope Wardle can right the ship....

Yeah Eddie, I know the Bross's pretty well. Two softest giants I have ever seen. Not to mention, they have been coddled by the parents. Kids get opportunities because of their size, but there really isn't much talent or potential there. Both of them are very nice, very smart kids. They just don't have the mental makeup or drive in my opinion to be college athletes.

[Djgoldnboy]

Yeah Eddie, I know the Bross's pretty well. Two softest giants I have ever seen. Not to mention, they have been coddled by the parents. Kids get opportunities because of their size, but there really isn't much talent or potential there. Both of them are very nice, very smart kids. They just don't have the mental makeup or drive in my opinion to be college athletes.

Wasn't Wardle a player here while Rice was an assistant? Maybe he learned some "bad coaching style" as a player here? (Not saying anything physical), as my buddy said, who was an student manager at the time when Rice was here, that was a pretty typical practice back in the day at MU, minus any physical touching/ball throwing. Yelling/language was definitely a part of it.

[MU/Panther]

I hope the public doesn't view Wardle as guilty when there isn't many feel facts out there. Even if Wardle is found not-guilty of any wrong doing, this still hurts Wardle and the Green Bay basketball program.

[eddiedswang]

The COMMENTS made by people on JS ONLINE attached to the Wardle article are priceless.....

When delusional parents raise their children from cradle until they dump them off on their wife (or next mommy) (unless the kid prefers to live in their basement for the rest of his life), this is what you get.....people like Bross' mother are painful to watch in action. Watching them over the years make me want to kick my kids in the a$$ and tell them to grow a pair. Life is never fair. It's about dealing with tough situations and people. Man up. The sad thing is all along they had no clue that everyone was laughing at them!!!!! And still are....

[TheSultan]

The COMMENTS made by people on JS ONLINE attached to the Wardle article are priceless.....

When delusional parents raise their children from cradle until they dump them off on their wife (or next mommy) (unless the kid prefers to live in their basement for the rest of his life), this is what you get.....people like Bross' mother are painful to watch in action. Watching them over the years make me want to kick my kids in the a$$ and tell them to grow a pair. Life is never fair. It's about dealing with tough situations and people. Man up. The sad thing is all along they had no clue that everyone was laughing at them!!!!! And still are....


See, I hate stuff like this. I don't know anything about Bross, but why do people have to make assumptions on this issue without understanding the entire story?

What I have been told is not it not necessarily just yelling that is the issue, but inconsistent communication...pitting players against one another..."head games," etc.
Now is any of this an "actionable" offense? Most likely not. However does it paint a bad picture of Wardle as a coach? Probably.

[mufansince72]

The COMMENTS made by people on JS ONLINE attached to the Wardle article are priceless.....

When delusional parents raise their children from cradle until they dump them off on their wife (or next mommy) (unless the kid prefers to live in their basement for the rest of his life), this is what you get.....people like Bross' mother are painful to watch in action. Watching them over the years make me want to kick my kids in the a$$ and tell them to grow a pair. Life is never fair. It's about dealing with tough situations and people. Man up. The sad thing is all along they had no clue that everyone was laughing at them!!!!! And still are....

I think Eddie summed this up pretty well!

[MUMac]

See, I hate stuff like this. I don't know anything about Bross, but why do people have to make assumptions on this issue without understanding the entire story?

What I have been told is not it not necessarily just yelling that is the issue, but inconsistent communication...pitting players against one another..."head games," etc.
Now is any of this an "actionable" offense? Most likely not. However does it paint a bad picture of Wardle as a coach? Probably.

I would like to hear more, but head games, inconsistent communication, pitting players against one another ... sounds like a normal coaching situation in any sport. Especially at the D1 level. Painting Wardle in a bad picture? Really? Give me a break!!!

[IWB]

why do people have to make assumptions on this issue without understanding the entire story?

Sultan - eddiedswang is basing his statement off of observing the kid and his parents since he was in early grade school. I would think that would qualify him to speak on more than an assumption basis.

I have known Brian Wardle for years. I have watched him coach. He is not any different than any other coach out there. Yelling at kids, playing head games with them and pitting them against each other is called "COACHING".

This is an absolute crock. A mom writing a letter to a University complaining about how a coach yelled at and mistreated her son? When does it stop?

I have coached a total of 20 youth sports teams between basketball, baseball and football as either a head or assistant coach. 20. That is a hell of a lot, and I have yet to coach my third kid in anything. Out of all 20 teams, I had never received a complaint about playing time or what position they play until this year. This year in basketball I had 7 girls on my team. 7. Only two of which were guards, so I literally could never take them out because no one else could dribble. The rest alternated.

The girl whose parent complained went in at the mid way point of every quarter. So, she split time equally with the girl in front of her. The only time that did not happen was in two games in the fourth quarter where it came down to the buzzer. Mind you, in this grade we do not have equal playing time rules, but if we did, she would still be doubling the time in that rule.

Now - the parent complained to the athletic director, every member of the athletic board and anyone else who would listen, but never said a word to me. Never asked me why she wasn't playing more, never asked me why she wasn't starting, but basically complained about me to everyone in town.

I never coached the kid any differently than I coached anyone else, I never sat her more than anyone else despite the fact that she was our biggest liability, yet the mom complained to the school.

Should the school have launched an investigation? Should I have been dragged through the media for being a horrible person?

Wardle is coaching D1 basketball. He needs to yell at theses kids, he needs to pit them against each other (its called competition) and he needs to play head games with them to get the best out of them. This is what coaches do.

Tim Maymon complained about playing time and everyone assumed he was nuts. This kid's mom complains about her son being yelled at, and it launches an investigation?

I think this is BS. I know Wardle, he is a great guy and a talented coach. This is absurd.

[mufansince72]

Sultan - eddiedswang is basing his statement off of observing the kid and his parents since he was in early grade school. I would think that would qualify him to speak on more than an assumption basis.

I have known Brian Wardle for years. I have watched him coach. He is not any different than any other coach out there. Yelling at kids, playing head games with them and pitting them against each other is called "COACHING".

This is an absolute crock. A mom writing a letter to a University complaining about how a coach yelled at and mistreated her son? When does it stop?

I have coached a total of 20 youth sports teams between basketball, baseball and football as either a head or assistant coach. 20. That is a hell of a lot, and I have yet to coach my third kid in anything. Out of all 20 teams, I had never received a complaint about playing time or what position they play until this year. This year in basketball I had 7 girls on my team. 7. Only two of which were guards, so I literally could never take them out because no one else could dribble. The rest alternated.

The girl whose parent complained went in at the mid way point of every quarter. So, she split time equally with the girl in front of her. The only time that did not happen was in two games in the fourth quarter where it came down to the buzzer. Mind you, in this grade we do not have equal playing time rules, but if we did, she would still be doubling the time in that rule.

Now - the parent complained to the athletic director, every member of the athletic board and anyone else who would listen, but never said a word to me. Never asked me why she wasn't playing more, never asked me why she wasn't starting, but basically complained about me to everyone in town.

I never coached the kid any differently than I coached anyone else, I never sat her more than anyone else despite the fact that she was our biggest liability, yet the mom complained to the school.

Should the school have launched an investigation? Should I have been dragged through the media for being a horrible person?

Wardle is coaching D1 basketball. He needs to yell at theses kids, he needs to pit them against each other (its called competition) and he needs to play head games with them to get the best out of them. This is what coaches do.

Tim Maymon complained about playing time and everyone assumed he was nuts. This kid's mom complains about her son being yelled at, and it launches an investigation?

I think this is BS. I know Wardle, he is a great guy and a talented coach. This is absurd.

I love your analysis when it comes to Maymon and Bross situations. The difference is Maymon only had one crazy parent that we know of. Bross has two! Maymon is/was a high level D1 athlete. Bross is a seven foot walkon redshirt! It might be worth it as a coach to take all the stuff that is involved with a difficult parent in a situation like Maymon's, because of the talent and the potential. It is not worth it when you are dealing with a project who's parents have very unrealistic views of their child's athletic ability. What is really funny is I think at one time Bross's parents were trying to get Buzz to take him as a walkon at MU. One day of bootcamp and there probably would have been child endangerment charges:cool:

[IWB]

Maymon does have two parents, but to me his mom seemed pretty quiet and reserved. I do remember when he committed, Tim told me that Jerrone wanted to stay close to home because he didn't want to be too far away from his mom.

[Mucrisco]

I've had many conversations about this with older coaches. They all say that they use to get complaints from parents that the coach wasn't being hard enough on their kid. Today, parents complain that they are being too hard on their kid. They'd tell me stories how their football coach would grab their face masks, hit them on their helmet, shoulder pads etc. It's certainly a different world when someone thinks that pitting kids against each other, while playing a sport is cause for an investigation. I will say this. I coached girls for a long time, and the past few years I've been coaching the boys. My style is hardly intimidating, but I expect full effort. There is so much more drama, coaching the boys, than there is the girls. I tell people this and they think it's counter intuitive, but it's true. Because of this, I have had to raise my voice with the boys so much more than the girls. It's almost as if I have to do that to get a point across. After the season, I'd have my post season 1 on 1's with the kids, and most of them say they need yelling in order to stay motivated. Some kids don't like that. The challenge nowadays is figuring out what motivates each kid because everyone is different. However, even though kids might not like it, what they think brings out the best in them is not true, because they are not giving full effort. I always talk about taking yourself out of your comfort zone. Striving to be a better person in everything you do. Kids might think they are giving their full effort, but in reality, all they want is to be in their comfort zone.

[Nukem2]

Guess UW-GB went public with this to avoid bad publicity and to avoid the New Mike Rice syndrome. In the meantime, Brian has literally been thrown under the bus. It's hard to see how he comes out looking good no matter the outcome. Wish this could have been done quietly, but I guess we we have a new normal in our world, GBOW. Does the school really need to hire an outside party to review the situation? That seems like a real overkill...and one has to wonder if the independent reviewer would do any better than the AD or general counsel...? The world is getting to be a strange place to live in. Glad I am retired ( and, that's the opinion of most in my generation ).

[MayorBeluga]

In the meantime, Brian has literally been thrown under the bus.

Wow. That's a really harsh punishment for an allegation. :eek:

In all seriousness, you are correct that this is absurd. It's reached the point that a mere allegation of a coach not telling junior that he's super-duper special is enough to potentially ruin a coach's career.

[eddiedswang]

How can we get Wardle in touch with people in Menomonee Falls who coached this kid growing up -- and put up with the parental meddling and whining -- so he can build his defense? Does he have an email that is open to the public? He needs to start deposing people down here to get the true flavor of the delusional parents that he is up against. Their reign of terror went on for years in the Falls. But, people just laughed at them. Now they are going for the jugular of a good man. They need to be stopped! They need to let their son grow up to be his own man!

How dare they attack Wardle's professionalism. He's a coach....not a freakin psychiatrist or teacher. Jump on the Mike Rice train while it is rolling. these parents smell blood....

Coaches yell and scream and motivate by many different tactics. This bogus witch hunt is an attack on his family and future! Every coach in America from Coach K on down yells at his players.....all have kids leave their program -- and some are pissed because of playing time or they just couldn't fit into the system. Every one of the kids that leaves sees it THEIR way.....the coach sees it his way....the truth usually lies somewhere in between. College kids who play D1 ball all think they should start...they've been coddled and groomed for this......they all think they are a gift.....this kid has no business playing D1 ball.....let alone any ball. He and his parents need to move on like ADULTS....by trying to ruin Wardle's life does this make their life any better?

What a crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheSultan]

How can we get Wardle in touch with people in Menomonee Falls who coached this kid growing up -- and put up with the parental meddling and whining -- so he can build his defense? Does he have an email that is open to the public?


wardleb@uwgb.edu

[Nukem2]

wardleb@uwgb.edu
With copies to UW-GB's AD an prez ( or chancellor or whatever ).

[TheSultan]

I actually might be a good idea to let the entire process play out first. We have no idea what the truth is...even their beat reporter cautioned people not to jump to conclusions.

[eddiedswang]

Thanks sultan.....

[mufansince72]

How can we get Wardle in touch with people in Menomonee Falls who coached this kid growing up -- and put up with the parental meddling and whining -- so he can build his defense? Does he have an email that is open to the public? He needs to start deposing people down here to get the true flavor of the delusional parents that he is up against. Their reign of terror went on for years in the Falls. But, people just laughed at them. Now they are going for the jugular of a good man. They need to be stopped! They need to let their son grow up to be his own man!

How dare they attack Wardle's professionalism. He's a coach....not a freakin psychiatrist or teacher. Jump on the Mike Rice train while it is rolling. these parents smell blood....

Coaches yell and scream and motivate by many different tactics. This bogus witch hunt is an attack on his family and future! Every coach in America from Coach K on down yells at his players.....all have kids leave their program -- and some are pissed because of playing time or they just couldn't fit into the system. Every one of the kids that leaves sees it THEIR way.....the coach sees it his way....the truth usually lies somewhere in between. College kids who play D1 ball all think they should start...they've been coddled and groomed for this......they all think they are a gift.....this kid has no business playing D1 ball.....let alone any ball. He and his parents need to move on like ADULTS....by trying to ruin Wardle's life does this make their life any better?

What a crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agree 100% Eddie. By the way, look at the top right of your screen, as you have mail!

[TulsaWarrior]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130415/GPG020110/130415057/UWGB-picks-local-attorney-investigate-Wardle?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|

[warriorfan4life]

Assuming Wardle is okay, I hope this this ends quickly so that he could make a push for Jake Thomas and Jesperson.

[IWB]

Add Jake Thomas and Jesperson to UWGB and they will be pretty tough.

Still a possibility that Jake returns to MU.

[mufansince72]

Thought this investigation was bull, but maybe not! http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130415/GPG020101/304150341/Men-s-basketball-2nd-complaint-filed-against-UWGB-s-Wardle

[Markedman]

Things getting worse for Wardle.....where there is smoke...........

[mufansince72]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22078582/second-green-bay-player-alleges-misconduct-by-coach-brian-wardle

[warriorfan4life]

Things getting worse for Wardle.....where there is smoke...........

You are probably right, but Cougill did not have the greatest reputation either. I can empathize with someone suffering from depression, but unfortunately know what happens when it is not treated properly from a close family member (and can see how it would disrupt a basketball team). If this was not one of our own guys potentially being railroaded, I admittedly may look at this differently, but I am not ready to compare Wardle to Rice just yet.

[CaribouJim]

Wow - I'm really surprised by all this - he seems like such an easy going guy. If this turns out to be true, I just don't understand that approach - do you really need to resort to that type of stuff to get results?

[IrwinFletcher]

I don't know if Wardle is guilty of this or not, but I just hate these pieces that present one side of the story. Would like to hear what Brian has to say, if anyting.

Lets hope it isn't a big deal.

[unclejohn]

You are probably right, but Cougill did not have the greatest reputation either. I can empathize with someone suffering from depression, but unfortunately know what happens when it is not treated properly from a close family member (and can see how it would disrupt a basketball team). If this was not one of our own guys potentially being railroaded, I admittedly may look at this differently, but I am not ready to compare Wardle to Rice just yet.

I totally admit that I am completely biased. Not only is Brian one of ours, but I have always liked him. While he was at Marquette, and afterward, he always conducted himself as a perfect gentleman. I went down to Rockford to interview him when he was down there. He was great. He didn't need to be.

Looking at these two cases, at least as they are set out, I am not all that impressed. One is from a walk-on with a pretty notorious mother. The other seems to be about the same. Here is a kid who started out as the player of the year in Iowa, lasted one year at the state school, and was a fair player at Green Bay. While I would not find it acceptable for a coach to ridicule a player with mental illness problems, I can see a coach getting on a kid if he fails to take his medication, melts down during a game, and creates a crisis. I can understand a coach telling a player that he has to take responsibility for his own health and being ready to play. That does not mean not getting the flu. It does mean taking the medication you know you need to stay mentally balanced. I also look at this and wonder why Mom was not allowed to talk to the head coach while her son was on (as she notes deserved) academic probation. First, what does she need to talk to the coach about, exactly? To get him to talk to profs to up the kid's grades? If she got shuffled off to his trusted assistant, I think it was more a matter of "I don't have time to deal with this woman right now. You handle it."

There may be more to the matter than that. An investigation is in order. But so far, I have not seen more than a few parents whose noses are out of joint.

[MUBasketball]

Justin Felder ‏@Justin_Felder 14m

Spoke to a former Green Bay men's basketball player about Coach Wardle's style..."he made you have tough skin." Hear more soon on @fox11news


Drew Smith ‏@DrewSmithSports 5m

Seth Evans on Wardle: "...he was pushing me in the right direction, I just wasn't ready for it at the age of 18."

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/sports/college/former-player-on-playing-for-wardle#.UWy6cR-wwtg.twitter

[TheSultan]

I totally admit that I am completely biased. Not only is Brian one of ours, but I have always liked him. While he was at Marquette, and afterward, he always conducted himself as a perfect gentleman. I went down to Rockford to interview him when he was down there. He was great. He didn't need to be.

Looking at these two cases, at least as they are set out, I am not all that impressed. One is from a walk-on with a pretty notorious mother. The other seems to be about the same. Here is a kid who started out as the player of the year in Iowa, lasted one year at the state school, and was a fair player at Green Bay. While I would not find it acceptable for a coach to ridicule a player with mental illness problems, I can see a coach getting on a kid if he fails to take his medication, melts down during a game, and creates a crisis. I can understand a coach telling a player that he has to take responsibility for his own health and being ready to play. That does not mean not getting the flu. It does mean taking the medication you know you need to stay mentally balanced. I also look at this and wonder why Mom was not allowed to talk to the head coach while her son was on (as she notes deserved) academic probation. First, what does she need to talk to the coach about, exactly? To get him to talk to profs to up the kid's grades? If she got shuffled off to his trusted assistant, I think it was more a matter of "I don't have time to deal with this woman right now. You handle it."

There may be more to the matter than that. An investigation is in order. But so far, I have not seen more than a few parents whose noses are out of joint.


I think we should let the investigation play out because my understanding is that there are more than just a couple unhappy fringe players. Again, nothing physical... I think Wardle may have made some mistakes recruiting wise and has some players who may not have been good fits with his program and what he is trying to do.

[MUMac]

I think we should let the investigation play out because my understanding is that there are more than just a couple unhappy fringe players. Again, nothing physical... I think Wardle may have made some mistakes recruiting wise and has some players who may not have been good fits with his program and what he is trying to do.

He needs to recruit like Buzz. Make sure the kid is tough minded. Also needs to do a better job on the parents.

Very odd that in both cases it was the kids mommy who wrote the letter. I am glad I did not have a mommy like that!

[unclejohn]

That takes experience, and Wardle is still a very young coach. Coaches should learn things like that at a place like Green Bay, not in the national spotlight.

[mufansince72]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130416/GPG020110/130416055/Men-s-basketball-UWGB-player-s-father-supports-Wardle

[mufansince72]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130429/GPG020101/304290404/Bross-outlines-complaints-against-Wardle

[MUBasketball]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130429/GPG020101/304290404/Bross-outlines-complaints-against-Wardle

Not good. One side of the story obviously...but does Wardle survive this?

[IWB]

Wardle took a chance on a 7'0 footer as a walk on. Who wouldn't? The kid is 7'0 and wasn't taking up a scholarship, so if he doesn't pan out, no loss, right? Wrong. Looking at everything that is out there so far, the kid could not handle being yelled at, and his mom is over defensive. Posters here say they have seen that dating all the way back to grade school. Now the family is taking it a step farther, and seem dead set on ruining Wardle's career. Why? Because their son wasn't good enough for D1 basketball? Because he couldn't take getting yelled at?

It is D1 sports. Coaches yell. Coaches scream. Coaches push you as hard as they can to get the most out of you.

I played football in college. They pushed us hard, harder than I ever thought would be possible. We ran until we puked. We had a QB that headed to the trees because he was losing it out his back side like Bross did in the story. Did his parents complain? Did any of our parents complain? No, and the QB that headed for the trees ended the season as an All-American.

I don't care what these people say in the article, I have seen enough in Brian Wardle over the past 15 years to know that he is a good guy, a talented young coach and I just don't buy this crap.

[MUMac]

First, why is the kid going public when there is an investigation? That clouds my judgment for the kid and his case.

Secondly, I don't care what level of play, I would NEVER recruit this kid to play after this. He may be done playing now. Who would want the mess and drama that the kid and his parents bring? Not me. Good luck to him in the Muni League.

[IWB]

Agree Mac - You filed your complaint, they launched an investigation, let the process take its course.

[TulsaWarrior]

This could be irreparable damage to Wardle's career -- fair or not. The Bross Family could have gone public anytime. I question why now since the university made a commitment to an independent investigation and the findings of that investigation are still pending. Clearly the kid needs to be protected but at the same time due process should be honored. That is not happening.

I think we all should trust the process but that is now impossible and that is sad for everyone. The cloud will not go away. Is there a need to rush to judgement and not trust an independent professional investigator?

[Mark Miller]

Bross obviously has his side of the story. But why on Earth did he go to the press with it? What is his motivation?

I think that is pretty clear.

[warriorfan4life]

This could be irreparable damage to Wardle's career -- fair or not. The Bross Family could have gone public anytime. I question why now since the university made a commitment to an independent investigation and the findings of that investigation are still pending. Clearly the kid needs to be protected but at the same time due process should be honored. That is not happening.

I think we all should trust the process but that is now impossible and that is sad for everyone. The cloud will not go away. Is there a need to rush to judgement and not trust an independent professional investigator?

This situation may not be a death knell to Wardle's future, but it is going to make it extremely difficult for him to rise the coaching ladder. And hell, if he wanted to pursue a career outside of basketball, he now has this crap that's been made public to deal with in dealing with prospective employers.

[TulsaWarrior]

Going public prior to the findings of the independent investigator's report raises questions about the Bross Family goals in all this. I'm surprised their attorney allowed this to happen. I don't blame the reporter for doing the story but as a retired journalist I always asked myself why a source was talking to me? What did they hope to gain?

There are three sets of attorneys in all this -- the university's, the Bross Family's and Wardle's. What a cluster with no winners.

[TheSultan]

Going public prior to the findings of the independent investigator's report raises questions about the Bross Family goals in all this. I'm surprised their attorney allowed this to happen. I don't blame the reporter for doing the story but as a retired journalist I always asked myself why a source was talking to me? What did they hope to gain?

There are three sets of attorneys in all this -- the university's, the Bross Family's and Wardle's. What a cluster with no winners.


Agreed. There was no reason for Bross to do this at all if he expects to be taken seriously.

[Goose85]

Agreed. There was no reason for Bross to do this at all if he expects to be taken seriously.

His mommy just made sure he will not be taken seriously.

[IWB]

Exactly right Goo. In trying to make Wardle look bad they themselves made their kid look bad.

What really sucks about this is Wardle can not stand up and defend himself. Because of the privacy laws protecting students, he has to sit down and keep his mouth shut. They can make accusation after accusation and he can't dispute it. From the other articles in the GBPG it sounds as if the players are all defending Wardle, where if this was as bad as Bross claims it was, they wouldn't be backing Wardle.

Even though he can't defend himself or get into specifics, I am sure you will be seeing a press release from his attorney soon.

[Phantom Warrior]

I have no idea what's true and what's not in wardle's situation. However, some of the Rutgers players defended Mike Rice, and there was video evidence of verbal and physical abuse. As shocked as I was to read that some Rutgers players defended Rice, they did, so I'm not quite sure how to view UWGB players supporting Wardle.

Still, the family was foolish for going public as there's no question it makes the kid and parents look bad. But, as my mother used to tell me, there is no Ministry of Logic.

[mufansince72]

I really don't know what to make of this. I know the Bross family. I don't know what they could possibly have to gain by making all of these public accusations. At worst, they may be destroying the career of a coach, and tarnishing the reputation of their son. Sad any way you look at it.

[Djgoldnboy]

Exactly right Goo. In trying to make Wardle look bad they themselves made their kid look bad.

What really sucks about this is Wardle can not stand up and defend himself. Because of the privacy laws protecting students, he has to sit down and keep his mouth shut. They can make accusation after accusation and he can't dispute it. From the other articles in the GBPG it sounds as if the players are all defending Wardle, where if this was as bad as Bross claims it was, they wouldn't be backing Wardle.

Even though he can't defend himself or get into specifics, I am sure you will be seeing a press release from his attorney soon.

Yup, even from within the the comments on that link:

Gregory Paul Le Sage · Green Bay, Wisconsin

To be honest I feel the kid needs to grow up a little bit. As a former player I never that Coach Wardle ever downgraded his players. Especially in a way that has been described here. Coach Wardle was the reason I came to UWGB from KY.

[mufansince72]

I had heard the stories about not being able to take the classes he wanted. If that is true I would have an issue with that as a parent.

[MUAlphaBangura]

Maybe this dork found a new career in advertising. He'd be perfect for the new K-Mart adds--- "You mean I can ship my pants?"

[MUMac]

I had heard the stories about not being able to take the classes he wanted. If that is true I would have an issue with that as a parent.

Not sure I agree with your concern. You have not heard the reason why. Yes, the class may not have interfered with practice, but are there any labs that would? The time demands of the class? Could the demands of the class be such that Wardle may not have wanted him to take them the first year? There is an adjustment to college for a normal student. Add to that the demands of major college athletics ... who knows, maybe it was in the kids best interest at the time. As a parent, I would welcome that.

[mufansince72]

Not sure I agree with your concern. You have not heard the reason why. Yes, the class may not have interfered with practice, but are there any labs that would? The time demands of the class? Could the demands of the class be such that Wardle may not have wanted him to take them the first year? There is an adjustment to college for a normal student. Add to that the demands of major college athletics ... who knows, maybe it was in the kids best interest at the time. As a parent, I would welcome that.

Just knowing the kid, and how smart he is, and the fact that he was a walk on and paying his own way, he should be able to take whatever he want's as long as it doesn't interfere with practice. Isn't the whole point of going to college to get an education in your chosen field?

[Halo]

I will be surprised if Wardle survives this, right or wrong. It's a new world these days.

[TulsaWarrior]

This reminds me of Arthur Miller's play the Crucible. There's a witch hunt.

[TulsaWarrior]

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/30/uw-green-bay-center-alec-brown-a-lot-of-the-stuff-thats-been-said-is-not-true/

[TheSultan]

Ive said this before, but I think it would be best for the report to come out before passing judgement.

[Nukem2]

Ive said this before, but I think it would be best for the report to come out before passing judgement.
And, the accuser should wait as well before going public...? Bottom line is that he was a walk-on and could have dropped off the team at any time....

[MUMac]

Just knowing the kid, and how smart he is, and the fact that he was a walk on and paying his own way, he should be able to take whatever he want's as long as it doesn't interfere with practice. Isn't the whole point of going to college to get an education in your chosen field?

As I said, you do not know the facts. Neither do I, but frankly I am very skeptical of what this kid says right now.

I also do not know if it is normal or unusual to take those classes as a frosh either.

[TulsaWarrior]

I taught Strategies for Academic success. It was a required freshman class at my old college. Few students come into college with the study skills to take a tough schedule from the get go. They have to strike a balance and go from there. College profs don't babysit students and expect them to own the work without being spoon feed. I wish I had a dollar for the rude awakening even high school honor students experience making that jump to college. Warning students away from some classes can save them a lot of grief and perhaps money if they are paying their own freight. Wait until you make the adjustment before tackling all the tough classes.

[mufansince72]

I don't believe much of what is coming out of Mrs. Bross's mouth on this issue. What I can tell you is that Ryan Bross is an excellent student and should have been allowed to take any class he damn well pleased. Expecially since he is a walkon. I have a kid who is a sophmore in college, and for his major he had to take three chemistry classes and one biology class including labs in his first two years of college. They are lower level 100 and 200 level classes that freshman and sophmores take.

[TheSultan]

And, the accuser should wait as well before going public...? Bottom line is that he was a walk-on and could have dropped off the team at any time....

Oh I agree with you completely on that.

[IWB]

I don't believe the class thing. If it were true, don't you think there would be a reason? "Coach, I want to take this class. It is M-W-F from 3:00-3:50."

I can easily see a coach saying no, as you will miss 1/2 of practice three days per week. I have no idea what the situation is, but I have a hard time believing any of this is "the absolute truth", probably all exaggerated a great deal.

[mufansince72]

I don't believe the class thing. If it were true, don't you think there would be a reason? "Coach, I want to take this class. It is M-W-F from 3:00-3:50."

I can easily see a coach saying no, as you will miss 1/2 of practice three days per week. I have no idea what the situation is, but I have a hard time believing any of this is "the absolute truth", probably all exaggerated a great deal.

Quite frankly Jim, the not being able to take the classes he wanted is the only part of the story I believe. I had heard that as early as first semester.

[IWB]

Yes, but why? Was it a class time interfering with practice? Was it to keep the overall course load down? I am not saying it is not true, because I don't know, I am just saying that if it is true, what was the reason?

If my kid asks if she can go to the park with her friends and I say no because she hasn't finished her homework, is it fair for her to tell everyone that I won't let her go because I am being mean? No - there was a reason.

The kid saying Wardle wouldn't let him take a class sounds like a partial story to me.

[mufansince72]

Could be. I'm just saying that is the only thing in the story that sounds plausible to me.
Classes like chemistry and biology at the freshman level typically have several sections and different class times. If it was a scheduling with baskeball practice issue I think that could have been worked around by taking the class at a different time. Maybe coach Wardle wants the kids to take harder classes such as these during summer school. I don't know. I'm just saying that is the only part of the story that I believe has any merit.

[MUMac]

Yes, but why? Was it a class time interfering with practice? Was it to keep the overall course load down? I am not saying it is not true, because I don't know, I am just saying that if it is true, what was the reason?

If my kid asks if she can go to the park with her friends and I say no because she hasn't finished her homework, is it fair for her to tell everyone that I won't let her go because I am being mean? No - there was a reason.

The kid saying Wardle wouldn't let him take a class sounds like a partial story to me.

Exactly. That has been my point to '72. He appears to believe one side of the story without knowing the other side. That is a dangerous way to operate. There are likely reasons for it, if it actually happened.

[TulsaWarrior]

GB is a smaller school. Your class schedule times for chemistry and biology may be limited in a given semester. Again, so far we're just hearing one side of the story and left to figure out the side of a person who is honoring a gag order and is limited because of privacy laws. (can't talk about a student's situation publicly) The Bross Family attorney knows that the school and coach cannot speak specifics at this stage of the investigation. Why did he allow his client to talk to a reporter at this particular time? I wish I had the answer.

[mufansince72]

GB is a smaller school. Your class schedule times for chemistry and biology may be limited in a given semester. Again, so far we're just hearing one side of the story and left to figure out the side of a person who is honoring a gag order and is limited because of privacy laws. (can't talk about a student's situation publicly) The Bross Family attorney knows that the school and coach cannot speak specifics at this stage of the investigation. Why did he allow his client to talk to a reporter at this particular time? I wish I had the answer.

As I said earlier, I have no clue! I don't know what the Bross's have to gain by talking about this publicly.

[mufansince72]

Exactly. That has been my point to '72. He appears to believe one side of the story without knowing the other side. That is a dangerous way to operate. There are likely reasons for it, if it actually happened.

Didn't say that I absolutely believed it. I said that the class thing was the only part of the story that I thought was plausible. Jim, why would a coach of a walk on who is red shirted who can't play anyway care what a kid's course load is? Wouldn't you actually want the kid to load up on classes during this period so maybe he could have easier courses during a period of eligibility?

You guys seem to think I am defending Bross. I'm not. I believe Wardle's side of the story. I just think that if any part of this story is true it is most likely to be the academic portion.

[TulsaWarrior]

As I mentioned before I have worked with kids on college class schedule issues both for on campus and distance learning. I can't tell you how many kids from schools across the country are taking DL courses, from my former school because it fit their schedule better and was more cost effective. Getting the classes you want and need to get your degree is a juggling act. And yes someone who has worked on the college level for years knows better than a teenager or parent what may be the best approach. My bet is the GB basketball program has a pretty good academic adviser because the team has had few academic casualties over the past decade. Wasn't Coug's the only one in the past four years?

[IWB]

Was just throwing it out there as a possibility, more along the lines of, "you can't take XX credits, you will need to be at practice, film study, weight room etc etc"

The more I think about his aspect the more I don't believe it. Wardle has modeled the UWGB program after mu's in some respects, one of those being the academic support staff. Who helps kids schedule their classes? Their academic advisor. Are we to believe that Wardle sits down with the kids when it is time to schedule classes? No, UWGB's version of Asrienne Ridgeway does that. My guess is that Warsle never had anything to do with the kid's class selection unless it kept him out of practice.

[mufansince72]

Yeah, good point. Probably academic advisor types!

[TulsaWarrior]

More support for Wardle from a former player. http://www.nbc26.com/sports/205481771.html

[warriorfan4life]

Here is support from a fairly prominent MU alum (https://twitter.com/stevenovak20/status/329442235986886657).

[mufansince72]

I hope Wardle is cleared and untarnished, and that the Bross's learn a lesson.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I don't see any way Wardle walks away from this untarnished unfortunately. If he is innocent that's a shame but unfortunately he will always be remembered for this by most national people. I don't know Brian, I don't know anyone in the situation, I hope for all involved that the real truth comes out and that's the most anyone can ask for here.

[TulsaWarrior]

There seems to be four kinds of posters on the various message boards commenting on this investigation. Bross and Cougill who have put their names out and made specific allegations – a number of past and present players who have put their name out in support of Wardle (Novak, LeSage, Barkley, Brown, Sykes, etc.) – A lynch mob either for or against Bross and Cougill – the final group are a couple posters who claim to be “former division one players.” These “anonymous” athletes say those who question Bross and Cougill don’t know anything about how division one sports really works. That is a fair criticism but it would carry more weight if they put their name with the comment.

As a life time journalist I would ask myself why is someone leaking information and why are they unwilling to put their name with the information? What do they hope to gain by telling me a story? Are they playing me?

This investigation is serious stuff. Lives could be changed forever. We all need to be damn sure we’re not part of a lynch mob, for either side.

[Goose85]

The unfortunate part of all of this (and MU went through it a few years ago) is that you can only get one side.

The Bross kid and his mom can say anything about Wardle they want, true or not, and Wardle and the university can not publicly respond because of privacy laws. MU went through the same thing.

Bad press for the school and the people involved who can not respond to the allegations. Just like with MU, without a full blown trial the truth may never really come out. All we are left with is the kids accusations and whatever some newspaper wants to write, even if they are not all truthful.

I hope Wardle survives this and it doesn't affect his ability to coach and recruit going forward. If some of these accusations are not truthful, I hope that comes out too, but I doubt it.

Unfortunately our society is one where the majority of the people are interested in the juicy parts of a story when it comes out, form an opinion based on that, and could care less what happens later as they have moved on. This is the real problem for Wardle.

[TheSultan]

The unfortunate part of all of this (and MU went through it a few years ago) is that you can only get one side.

The Bross kid and his mom can say anything about Wardle they want, true or not, and Wardle and the university can not publicly respond because of privacy laws. MU went through the same thing.


There is no law preventing from UWGB from responding. They aren't responding because they are in the middle of an investigation. This a situation quite different from MU's because legal questions aren't involved.

[Gato78]

Federal privacy laws prohibit comment about the accusations. The privacy laws extend to any records and information directly related to the student--including any records maintained by any party or organization acting on behalf of the school. The privacy right is vested in the student. ESPN vs Ohio State provides that the confidentiality extends to all "personally identifiable information". Wardle and the University are precluded from any comment both as a matter of law and as a matter of University policy.

[Halo]

the problem Wardle has now is that this situation has allowed the administrators, investigators and media to a certain degree of having full access to the guts of his program and how he does things. I would suspect that if one was to witness any college program, they would be alarmed at the language used by the coaches to motivate a player. Wardle's every word now will become public for all to see and I don't think any coach in this country would want that for themselves. It's not excusing it, but I doubt he comes out of this untarnished.

[TheSultan]

Federal privacy laws prohibit comment about the accusations. The privacy laws extend to any records and information directly related to the student--including any records maintained by any party or organization acting on behalf of the school. The privacy right is vested in the student. ESPN vs Ohio State provides that the confidentiality extends to all "personally identifiable information". Wardle and the University are precluded from any comment both as a matter of law and as a matter of University policy.


Correct. I know UWGB cannot comment on the specifics from a legal perspective, but they can issue a comment on the investigation saying something like "we are aware of the allegations and are committed to conducting a thorough investigation." Like Tulsa said, the University can never look like they are taking side or have any sort of bias. And once the investigation is completed they will likely release a document that states what their investigation determined with specific names redacted.

[IWB]

First off, of course he is correct..... he "knows" Wardle's attorney.

Also, UWGB did issue a comment initially, or we would never know there was an internal investigation.

[IWB]

On top of this, listening to talk radio the last few days has made me sick. Jason Wilde was on the air yesterday going off on how Wardle should never coach again, he should never coach a YMCA team, he would never allow him to be around his kids etc etc. Seriously? This is a bunch of crap.

Wardle is a great guy, a great coach and he should not have to go through what he is being put through.

What will Bross' mom do when he can't get off the bench at Concordia?

[MUMac]

On top of this, listening to talk radio the last few days has made me sick. Jason Wilde was on the air yesterday going off on how Wardle should never coach again, he should never coach a YMCA team, he would never allow him to be around his kids etc etc. Seriously? This is a bunch of crap.

Wardle is a great guy, a great coach and he should not have to go through what he is being put through.

What will Bross' mom do when he can't get off the bench at Concordia?

If I am the coach of Concordia, I don't care how good he is, I don't want him.

[Goose85]

On top of this, listening to talk radio the last few days has made me sick. Jason Wilde was on the air yesterday going off on how Wardle should never coach again, he should never coach a YMCA team, he would never allow him to be around his kids etc etc. Seriously? This is a bunch of crap.

Wardle is a great guy, a great coach and he should not have to go through what he is being put through.

What will Bross' mom do when he can't get off the bench at Concordia?

That is surprising coming out of Wilde as you would think he is around NFL coaching. My guess is that can get a bit more intense than college ball at UWGB.

[warriorfan4life]

On top of this, listening to talk radio the last few days has made me sick. Jason Wilde was on the air yesterday going off on how Wardle should never coach again, he should never coach a YMCA team, he would never allow him to be around his kids etc etc. Seriously? This is a bunch of crap.

Wardle is a great guy, a great coach and he should not have to go through what he is being put through.

What will Bross' mom do when he can't get off the bench at Concordia?

I got to think at least part of this media reaction is that Wardle from Marquette, and not a UW-hypenated school (or the People's Republic itself).

[TheSultan]

On top of this, listening to talk radio the last few days has made me sick. Jason Wilde was on the air yesterday going off on how Wardle should never coach again, he should never coach a YMCA team, he would never allow him to be around his kids etc etc. Seriously? This is a bunch of crap.


Wilde is very close to Demovsky.

[mufansince72]

I see the comments on Facebook in support of the family! It is scary to me that people support the bross's blindly and calling for Wardle to be fired only knowing one side of the story!

[Bocephys]

I see the comments on Facebook in support of the family! It is scary to me that people support the bross's blindly and calling for Wardle to be fired only knowing one side of the story!

Is it more logical to completely discount the kid without an ability to hear the other side as so many here have done?

[Hamostradamus]

Don't know if this was brought up, I haven't read the whole thread. Anyone here go through the military? In basic, we had guys pass out, piss themselves, etc. You think my drill instructor called my mom to talk about me? I wasn't allowed to use a phone for a month. And the guys in my company were the same age as Bross, some younger.

[mufansince72]

Is it more logical to completely discount the kid without an ability to hear the other side as so many here have done?

Some of us have seen it before, but to a lesser degree than what is being accused, which creates a big shadow of doubt!

[mufansince72]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130502/gpg020101/305020367/men-s-basketball-wardle-investigation-report-could-come-by-next-week

[IWB]

Has anyone noticed that Demovsky has tweeted that people should let this play out before rushing to judgement, yet he keeps trying to bury Wardle? He writes that the investigation is wrapping up, was it important to remind everyone in detail what the accusations were? Then he writes that the former women's coach supports Wardle, citing that he observed many practices and says that Wardle never crossed the line. Yet he follows it up noting that he was gone before Bross arrived.

Am I wrong or does Demovsky have it out for Wardle?

[mufansince72]

yep, think the media has it out for him and he is probably being railroaded.

[warriorfan4life]

Has anyone noticed that Demovsky has tweeted that people should let this play out before rushing to judgement, yet he keeps trying to bury Wardle? He writes that the investigation is wrapping up, was it important to remind everyone in detail what the accusations were? Then he writes that the former women's coach supports Wardle, citing that he observed many practices and says that Wardle never crossed the line. Yet he follows it up noting that he was gone before Bross arrived.

Am I wrong or does Demovsky have it out for Wardle?

Yes, I think Demovsky is proving to be a Tom Oates, Rob Schultz, Jeff Potrykus type of tool. I also did not enjoy his shots to Mr. Wardle's representation on that Green Bay radio show.

[MUfan12]

Yes, I think Demovsky is proving to be a Tom Oates, Rob Schultz, Jeff Potrykus type of tool. I also did not enjoy his shots to Mr. Wardle's representation on that Green Bay radio show.

He's quite the opposite of those guys, actually. Those guys are completely biased, and do the bidding of the coaches.

Demovsky is like Olson, Wilde, etc. Trying so hard to prove they are impartial that they almost take a hostile stance.

[TheSultan]

Don't know if this was brought up, I haven't read the whole thread. Anyone here go through the military? In basic, we had guys pass out, piss themselves, etc. You think my drill instructor called my mom to talk about me? I wasn't allowed to use a phone for a month. And the guys in my company were the same age as Bross, some younger.


That's just a ridiculous comparison.

[TheSultan]

He's quite the opposite of those guys, actually. Those guys are completely biased, and do the bidding of the coaches.

Demovsky is like Olson, Wilde, etc. Trying so hard to prove they are impartial that they almost take a hostile stance.


I agree with this. He has been trying to bring up both sides by has been hedging his bets either way.

[TulsaWarrior]

I think MUfan12 has it right about Demovsky. I also think working with a good editor would help. Rob has found himself in the middle of a story that has gone viral. He is not responsible for the Press Gazette headlines or the pooh jokes that other media sources and message boards are putting out. He has a responsibility to report and doesn't want to come across as a cheerleader.

[TedBaxter]

The lesson from all of this is that coaches have to do almost everything above board now and that may not be enough to survive. The old school coaching techniques and the illegal recruiting stuff are going to get out there at some point and when parents get involved, good luck. This past year a college head coach was contacted by a parent who was upset at the salty language the head coach used during games when in the past, coaches coached and parents watched without involvement.

We'll have to see what happens, but to be honest, I will be surprised if UWGB is not looking for a new head coach and that's just my opinion. Public perception is huge right now.

[IWB]

Sultan - I don't think Navy boot camp is a ridiculous comparison. Many teams/coaches are putting boot camps into place to replicate boot camp from the branches of the military. Not to the same extent, but the framework is there. They work them to get into physical shape but also to toughen them up mentally. I don't see why it is so different, other than one group is athletes preparing for a competitive season and the other are military personnel preparing for a competitive career.

Tulsa - You say that Demovsky has a responsibility to report and doesn't want to come across as a cheerleader. I understand that, but it looks as if he is going in the other direction too the nth degree. He detailed Bross' complaints from an interview and laid them out there. In every story since he has brought them back up. Sykes and Brown were interviewed on Green Bay radio. Why has he not interviewed them? Former players have come out and spoken on Wardle's behalf, why has he not interviewed them? In his latest article he quotes former women's coach Matt Bollant, but states that the quotes were obtained by GBPG staff, then adds that he was not there this year. Why did he not interview Bollant himself?

The crap that Wilde was spewing on the air the other day was a shame, and to hear that he and Demovsky are tight shows that he took that story as gospel and will not entertain a view from the other side.

[MUMac]

That's just a ridiculous comparison.

I don't view it as a ridiculous comparison. I may be interpreting it a bit different as I read the post. The way I look at it, we now have people looking into the microscope of athletics to judge behavior. The mom, reporters, the attorney ... Yes, athletics can be hard, harsh and verbal abuse is not unusual. How do those that are looking in judge and compare it? What standard of care are they using? If Wardle is guilty and removed, there are a ton of coaches that could have the same fate.

Looking at the comparison to the military. One issue that broos has is with the "boot camp". Yes, boot camps are demanding, difficult and mind bending. The coaches will act like drill instructors. That is how they base it. Pushing the body and mind to the extreme, as during the season that will pay off huge benefits.

So, to you, ridiculous. I think you are way off base with that comment, quite frankly.

As for wilde, he is really an ego without a reason. Not much of a writer and really comes across as a whiny, pompous pile of broos shorts. If I ever listen to homer anymore, I turn the channel when he comes on the air.

[Goose85]

Did Wilde ever play a sport? Even high school coaches will spew foul language and make comments to players trying to get them to step up.

I have seen some high school basketball and football coaches really get after the kids in an intense way right in front of parents too. In one case where a coach was really incredibly hard on the kids (basketball) a grandmother to one of the kids told us (we were with the opposing team) that for many of the kids that is the only way to reach them or get them to respond to the coach as many lacked discipline. Basically she told us the kids needed that type of intensity from the coach.

Right or wrong, guys say things to other guys, and talk differently when only guys are around, and coaches are no different. Many of us experienced that in high school, and I'd bet guys like IWB who played college ball saw it at a much higher level.

Basically I think Buzz, and Coach K for that matter, are very good coaches and darn good role models, but I would not want my mother to sit in on a closed MU or Duke practice. For that matter, I wouldn't want my mom sitting through a high school practice, even at a place like MUHS. Guys, especially in tough sports, just communicate differently when around only guys.

Speaking of Green Bay (Wardle) I recall Mike Holmgren one time grabbing a guy by the face mask as he came off the field during a game and just going nuts on him (Bill Schroeder?). Everyone was shocked as most thought of Holmgren as such a nice, calm, cerebral and loveable guy. After that many of the players admitted that he could be absolutely brutal in closed practice sessions.

[TheSultan]

I still think the comparison is ridiculous.

I have absolutely no problem with athletic teams and physical boot camps that are meant to prepare you mentally and physically for basketball, and to help you build a sense of team. But the military is literally preparing you for life or death situations, and basketball is preparing you for...well...basketball. And the boot camps that Buzz and other coaches run aren't much like those run by the military.

[eddiedswang]

I am working on a documentary about this whole fiasco.....remember "Hoop Dreams" with William Gates? I am working with Bross to star in his own movie called "Poop Dreams"....coming soon to a location near you

[Mucrisco]

I still think the comparison is ridiculous.

I have absolutely no problem with athletic teams and physical boot camps that are meant to prepare you mentally and physically for basketball, and to help you build a sense of team. But the military is literally preparing you for life or death situations, and basketball is preparing you for...well...basketball. And the boot camps that Buzz and other coaches run aren't much like those run by the military.
I disagree with that statement entirely. You only have look look as far as our own coaches to see that's not true. You think Al McGuire and Buzz Williams only care about teaching basketball to the team? I don't think you really mean that.

[Nukem2]

I still think the comparison is ridiculous.

I have absolutely no problem with athletic teams and physical boot camps that are meant to prepare you mentally and physically for basketball, and to help you build a sense of team. But the military is literally preparing you for life or death situations, and basketball is preparing you for...well...basketball. And the boot camps that Buzz and other coaches run aren't much like those run by the military.I would guess that Buzz would beg to differ on that point...?

[TheSultan]

I disagree with that statement entirely. You only have look look as far as our own coaches to see that's not true. You think Al McGuire and Buzz Williams only care about teaching basketball to the team? I don't think you really mean that.


As far as the boot camp goes. And even if you take it further than that, again, this isn't the military.

[IWB]

No it is not the military, but the while idea of boot camp is the same concept, done for the same reason. To push you to the extreme both physically and mentally to prepare you for what is ahead.

[Mucrisco]

As far as the boot camp goes. And even if you take it further than that, again, this isn't the military.
So you don't think sports teaches you any life skills or that the coach has more than just winning a game in mind?

[ValiantSailor]

As far as the boot camp goes. And even if you take it further than that, again, this isn't the military.

Just a guess...you've never been through (military) boot camp, have you? That's what I thought.

It's nothing like it's portrayed on TV.

VS

[TheSultan]

So you don't think sports teaches you any life skills or that the coach has more than just winning a game in mind?


Of course it does. I don't think you understand what I am saying.

[Nukem2]

Of course it does. I don't think you understand what I am saying.Well, what is it that most of us here are obviously missing?

[Mucrisco]

Of course it does. I don't think you understand what I am saying.

I understand exactly what you are saying. However, you said this:
"and basketball is preparing you for...well...basketball"

I'm saying you don't really mean that, and by your last post, it's obvious you don't.

Moving on to your point about preparing you for life or death situations. Sure, coaches' boot camps and basketball practices aren't preparing you for something so extreme. It's not preparing you to avoid dying. However, it is preparing you for life. Boot camps in the military prepare you for discipline. They also challenge you physically and mentally so that you are able to handle pressure situations. Sports teaches you the same thing. You set goals, and you push yourself to the extreme, both physically and mentally to reach those goals. Sports gives you discipline and the tools you need to succeed in life. So, just because it's not a polarizing situation of life or death, the intentions are the same.

[TheSultan]

Well, what is it that most of us here are obviously missing?


That I simply don't believe equating a basketball boot camp with a military one is a good comparison.

[Nukem2]

That I simply don't believe equating a basketball boot camp with a military one is a good comparison.
The concept is the same. In a word, as Crisco noted, its about discipline. Beyond that you are simply being argumentative and splitting hairs.

[TheSultan]

The concept is the same. In a word, as Crisco noted, its about discipline. Beyond that you are simply being argumentative and splitting hairs.


I am not sure why I am being labelled "argumentative." I thought the comparison was ridiculous and have pretty much spent the rest of the time responding to questions about why I believe that's the case in pretty short responses.

Not everyone has to agree with everyone on every topic you know.

[Mucrisco]

I am not sure why I am being labelled "argumentative." I thought the comparison was ridiculous and have pretty much spent the rest of the time responding to questions about why I believe that's the case in pretty short responses.

Not everyone has to agree with everyone on every topic you know.

Edited. Didn't mean to be a smarta**.

[MUMac]

I am not sure why I am being labelled "argumentative." I thought the comparison was ridiculous and have pretty much spent the rest of the time responding to questions about why I believe that's the case in pretty short responses.

Not everyone has to agree with everyone on every topic you know.

Likely the choice of words you used. "Ridiculous" is an extreme word and brings a strong reaction.