Tubby Gone

[Markedman]

Made the tourny and won a game...not enough....

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21948116/tubby-smith-out-at-minnesota

[TedBaxter]

Will my old prediction of Shaka Smart to Minnesota to join his former VCU AD take hold?

[Goose85]

Made the tourny and won a game...not enough....

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21948116/tubby-smith-out-at-minnesota


Interesting that AD Teague hired Shaka Smart. Interesting spot for Smart.

Nice of Goodman to include Buzz's name in the mix. Really, Buzz to Minn? Why?

"Expect Teague to take a shot at persuading Smart to rejoin him, but it's a longshot. Also expect names such as former Minnesota Timberwolves coach Flip Saunders to be tossed around, but I'd be surprised if these guys don't delve into the coaching ranks. Remember, the Teague-Ellis duo is as familiar with college coaches as any administrative duo in the nation after starting up the Villa 7 years ago. Look for these guys to also see if Marquette coach Buzz Williams, who was involved with Villa 7, is interested in making a move."

[warriorfan4life]

Interesting that AD Teague hired Shaka Smart. Interesting spot for Smart.

Nice of Goodman to include Buzz's name in the mix. Really, Buzz to Minn? Why?

"Expect Teague to take a shot at persuading Smart to rejoin him, but it's a longshot. Also expect names such as former Minnesota Timberwolves coach Flip Saunders to be tossed around, but I'd be surprised if these guys don't delve into the coaching ranks. Remember, the Teague-Ellis duo is as familiar with college coaches as any administrative duo in the nation after starting up the Villa 7 years ago. Look for these guys to also see if Marquette coach Buzz Williams, who was involved with Villa 7, is interested in making a move."

Buzz needs a raise this offseason, deserves one, and I believe will get one.

[mufansince72]

Roll up the brinks truck. Keep him here. Do what Pitt just did with Jamie Dixon.
Minnesota is a crappy job, and I doubt they would even pay what MU pays Buzz right now.

[Goose85]

As TedBaxter said, would this be a Shaka Smart destination? Would they pay enough to get him?

[TheSultan]

Buzz to Minnesota makes about as much sense as Kevin O'Neill to Tennessee....and would be about as damning an indictment if he did leave.

[TedBaxter]

Maybe Goodman is putting Buzz' name out there so the Marquette administration takes notice?

[warriorfan4life]

As TedBaxter said, would this be a Shaka Smart destination? Would they pay enough to get him?

I wonder is Shaka is deciding between UCLA and this. Minny is not a bad job by any means (and VCU is basically in CAA 2.0 in new A-10), and would have not the crazy pressure of UCLA.

[warriorfan4life]

Maybe Goodman is putting Buzz' name out there so the Marquette administration takes notice?

Bingo, Buzz needs a little respect money.

[TheSultan]

Maybe Goodman is putting Buzz' name out there so the Marquette administration takes notice?

Maybe, but at some point that does get a little ridiculous though. Really are we going to have to go through this every off-season?

[TheSultan]

I wonder is Shaka is deciding between UCLA and this. Minny is not a bad job by any means (and VCU is basically in CAA 2.0 in new A-10), and would have not the crazy pressure of UCLA.


Minnesota isn't a bad job? Well, it certainly isn't a good job. They've been to the Sweet 16 four times, one of which was vacated. They've won their conference twice since 1937.

Shaka might go there because of the personal connection with the AD, but I would doubt he sniffs this job otherwise.

[mufansince72]

Does anyone really think Buzz would go to a colder climate? I hope Shaka just takes the UCLA job so the rumors can calm down.

[Markedman]

I have no problem giving him a raise but he is already getting "respect money".....He is more then fairly compensated for his results.....I think an increase would be more about reaffirming a commitment to each other...which would be a good thing considering all the changes that have taken place.


Bingo, Buzz needs a little respect money.

[TheSultan]

I have no problem giving him a raise but he is already not getting "respect money".....He is more then fairly compensated for his results.....I think an increase would be more about reaffirming a commitment to each other...which would be a good thing considering all the changes that have taken place.


I really like how you said this. I know about all the issues between Buzz and the administration, and some of this is unavoidable, but at some point this type of off-season stuff gets a little ridiculous.

[warriorfan4life]

I really like how you said this. I know about all the issues between Buzz and the administration, and some of this is unavoidable, but at some point this type of off-season stuff gets a little ridiculous.

Exactly, not necessarily a massive pay bump (though I think Buzz is one of top five-ten coaches and would pay him as such), but something that shows how much Marquette values him.

[Hamostradamus]

Twitter person who claims she is in the know:

@NadineBabu 51m #Gophers RT @DanBarreiroKFAN: If there is indeed already a verbal agreement -- I can't confirm -- it is NOT with Flip.

Nadine Babu ‏@NadineBabu 51m Once again, it is just a rumor that a new coach has already verbally accepted, but my source has been dead on.

[warriorfan4life]

Twitter person who claims she is in the know:

@NadineBabu 51m #Gophers RT @DanBarreiroKFAN: If there is indeed already a verbal agreement -- I can't confirm -- it is NOT with Flip.

Nadine Babu ‏@NadineBabu 51m Once again, it is just a rumor that a new coach has already verbally accepted, but my source has been dead on.

I think there's a good chance that it is Shaka. Easy to connect the dots. Our guy J.B. has been all over this as well.

Edit: To go back to Sultan's post, I think Minnesota has largely underachieved over the years. They are the only D-1 school in a state that produces a respectable amount of talent, and people there are fiercely loyal to U of M. I think the right coach could totally lock down the state and put the Gophers in the upper half to upper third of the B1G. They have to improve facilities, but there is potential in this job and not crazy expectations.

[Goose85]

Interesting that both Goodman and Parrish mention Buzz and Larry's relationship.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21948273/coaching-predictions-who-replaces-tubby-smith-at-minnesota

[kneelb4zerg]

My favorite part of coaches getting fired: rival coaches in the same league getting upset about it. Of course Izzo is upset that Tubby was fired, they might hire someone who is competent and there will be one less pushover on his schedule. Lame.

[Westcoastwarrior]

Buzz is already a top ten paid coach.....and his contract layout (revolving) is at his request. So locking him down to long term contract...like Pitt just did...does't make sense either.

I think someone suggest a few months ago (on this board) that MU making a large contribution to Buzz's Bunch might say more to Buzz then a bigger...longer contract. I would agree....

[Phantom Warrior]

LW is getting quite a bit of implied negative publcity - mostly due to his own doing. He can not be happy about that.

And if Buzz were to take a job at someplace like Minnesota, that public image of LW will suffer even more.

On top of that, his image among propsective candidates will also suffer. After all, here's a guy, Buzz, who has become a media darling, is an obvious success as a coach, is repsected, even revered by his players, has said that he will stay at MU as long as he's wanted, choosing to take another offer. What is the message to future potential candidates for the MU job? Stay away from this guy (LW).

Larry has put himself between the proverbial rock and a hard place. If Buzz leaves, Larry may just get crushed by the repercussions. If that happens, I'd be more than willing to buy a ticket to watch his demise.

Do I sound bitter? Upset?

Remind me again why freshmen ball players should stay in the dorm separated from the rest of their teammates.

Remind me again why an AD publicly chastised his head coach for a harmless 15-second two step even after the coach had already apologized on national t.v. if he offended anyone.

Remind me about suspending the coach not just from coaching a game but for 48 hours with no contact allowed with anyone in the program because of an assistant's minor recruiting infraction. (Buzz was not responsible for the follow-up lies and should not have been held accountable for someone else's stupidity.)

Larry has made his own bed, and if Buzz leaves, LW will have to sleep in it, and deservedly so.

[IrwinFletcher]

LW is getting quite a bit of implied negative publcity - mostly due to his own doing. He can not be happy about that.

And if Buzz were to take a job at someplace like Minnesota, that public image of LW will suffer even more.

On top of that, his image among propsective candidates will also suffer. After all, here's a guy, Buzz, who has become a media darling, is an obvious success as a coach, is repsected, even revered by his players, has said that he will stay at MU as long as he's wanted, choosing to take another offer. What is the message to future potential candidates for the MU job? Stay away from this guy (LW).

Larry has put himself between the proverbial rock and a hard place. If Buzz leaves, Larry may just get crushed by the repercussions. If that happens, I'd be more than willing to buy a ticket to watch his demise.

Do I sound bitter? Upset?

Remind me again why freshmen ball players should stay in the dorm separated from the rest of their teammates.

Remind me again why an AD publicly chastised his head coach for a harmless 15-second two step even after the coach had already apologized on national t.v. if he offended anyone.

Remind me about suspending the coach not just from coaching a game but for 48 hours with no contact allowed with anyone in the program because of an assistant's minor recruiting infraction. (Buzz was not responsible for the follow-up lies and should not have been held accountable for someone else's stupidity.)

Larry has made his own bed, and if Buzz leaves, LW will have to sleep in it, and deservedly so.

Let me go contrarian with you Silver.

In regards to LW's public image and that it would hurt in hiring another coach. What about the public image of the UCLA and MINN AD's who fired successful coaches who did a lot for their respective programs? Both programs were reeling at the time they were hired and brought levels of success that neither program had had in some time. Doesn't sound like they are hurting at this point (though it is early in the process for both).

In regards to the Buzz suspension. Buzz has suspended many players for games, half of games and even sent them home for the summer. Did those players pout and mope and run away? No. It was a lesson that they could learn from and become better people. They made mistakes, were punished, accepted it and came back.

If Buzz is in fact deeply pissed about the suspension, I would consider him to be a bit hypocritical since he employs the same tactics on his own players.

Again, just being contratrian here....

[IWB]

If Buzz is in fact deeply pissed about the suspension, I would consider him to be a bit hypocritical since he employs the same tactics on his own players.

I don't think Buzz has ever suspended a player for something a manager did.

[kneelb4zerg]

I have no problem with the suspension given how the NCAA is making head coaches responsible for the actions of their assistants. I would hope that Buzz understands that nuance.

[farmerdoc]

I have no problem with the suspension given how the NCAA is making head coaches responsible for the actions of their assistants. I would hope that Buzz understands that nuance.

Are there examples of this happening in D-1 men's BB? I'm not sure that I have heard of it yet, but might have missed it.

[IWB]

Buzz is already a top ten paid coach.....

I am not sure if that is true. A few years ago he received a large one time retention bonus. That year his salary was leaked out and ever since people have said he was paid in the top 5-10. He was that year, but that was with the one time retention bonus. He is still paid very well, and could be up there, I'm just not sure if top 10 is accurate post bonus.

[kneelb4zerg]

Are there examples of this happening in D-1 men's BB? I'm not sure that I have heard of it yet, but might have missed it.

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1659413

[CaribouJim]

LW is getting quite a bit of implied negative publcity - mostly due to his own doing. He can not be happy about that.

And if Buzz were to take a job at someplace like Minnesota, that public image of LW will suffer even more.

On top of that, his image among propsective candidates will also suffer. After all, here's a guy, Buzz, who has become a media darling, is an obvious success as a coach, is repsected, even revered by his players, has said that he will stay at MU as long as he's wanted, choosing to take another offer. What is the message to future potential candidates for the MU job? Stay away from this guy (LW).

Larry has put himself between the proverbial rock and a hard place. If Buzz leaves, Larry may just get crushed by the repercussions. If that happens, I'd be more than willing to buy a ticket to watch his demise.

Do I sound bitter? Upset?

Remind me again why freshmen ball players should stay in the dorm separated from the rest of their teammates.

Remind me again why an AD publicly chastised his head coach for a harmless 15-second two step even after the coach had already apologized on national t.v. if he offended anyone.

Remind me about suspending the coach not just from coaching a game but for 48 hours with no contact allowed with anyone in the program because of an assistant's minor recruiting infraction. (Buzz was not responsible for the follow-up lies and should not have been held accountable for someone else's stupidity.)

Larry has made his own bed, and if Buzz leaves, LW will have to sleep in it, and deservedly so.

Phantom, I'm going to have to disagree with you on some points. The first being frosh and soph requirement. Why freshmen ball players should stay in the dorm separated from the rest of their teammates? Because they are STUDENT athletes, at least theoretically, right? Does their entire college experience have to be tied into b-ball? I get depressed when I go to campus and run into players hanging with just players - nice that they get along, but it would be nice to see them just once, once hanging with the regular Joes on campus. I'm sure they do, but if they do I think it is minimal at best. I see no problem with them being in the dorms for at least one year. One of my brothers lived down the hall from Earl Tatum and got to know him and another brother who was on Oliver Lee's floor and got to know him as well. When Larry Williams was in Chicago for the Circles event in the fall he had a Q&A and I told him how much I agreed with him on the dorm policy. After the event, he sought me out to shake my hand and thank me and based on the look on his face it is obvious that he has been getting pummeled for it. Do these kids have to be under the b-ball bubble 24-7? I know Buzz is not happy about it, but you know something? Tough. Do these coaches get a blank checkbook? Anyway, I think you can make it a plus in the context of recruiting - part of Buzz's pitch can be "Mr. and Mrs. Parents we want Joey to graduate from MU as a complete person beyond b-ball. We're looking for big things from Joey on the team and hopefully he has a future at the next level, but we know that may not be the case whether due to injury or his skill sets are not a fit for the next level. For those reasons we want Joey to experience as normal as possible college experience, establishing friendships that last a lifetime that have no ties to the basketball side of his life. His class at Marquette will graduate many successful people we want Joey to have them as part of his network of friends and possibly work associates for the rest of his life. His experience at MU will be a well rounded experience athletically, academically and socially." I graduated 33 years ago and just today was in a seemingly never ending e-mail thread with about 20 guys I graduated with starting with the NCAA's and branched off to funny stories from MU. I've used a few of the guys over the years networking to secure jobs.

As far as Buzz getting suspended, wasn't that a preemptive strike for the new "the buck stops here" policy right? Haven't we all been subject to that same policy in one way or another? I've been slammed when a direct report of mine has f'd up or failed to perform up to standards - that stuff goes in the debit column. Buzz is responsible for his direct reports, whether they be coaches and/or players, at least in context to the b-ball program.

Lastly, your tone on Larry Williams is a little over the top IMO. Yes, he had a clumsy start for sure. A new boss can cause stress all around, but the C7 just transitioned conference affiliations in a very high profile and very favorably accepted manner and he was quoted often during the whole process and seemed right on message to me.

MU has been very, very good to Buzz and Buzz has been very, very good for MU. Can't things be mutually beneficial? I agree that an MU contribution to "Buzz's Bunch" would be a nice touch, but I agree with Sultan, having to grovel every time a high profile opening happens doesn't seem right to me.

[Markedman]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21791584/saint-marys-hit-hard-by-ncaa-coach-gets-5-game-suspension

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/20687423/report-ncaa-to-make-official-big-changes-to-punishing-head-coaches

[farmerdoc]

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1659413

Thanks........

[Phantom Warrior]

As far as Buzz's suspension, it was overkill.

Buzz was suspended, oststensibly, due to a recruiting violation on his watch. It was a minor infraction, the type of infraction that happens all the time. Other schools/programs don't suspend a coach for a single minor infraction. As for the assistant lying to the administration, that is a separate issue that does not involve Buzz.

If LW wanted to make a statement to Buzz about who is in control, a one-game suspension was certainly sufficient. And the first conference game on national t.v. to boot.

But no, that wasn't enough for LW. Forcing Buzz to have zero contact with his players, the assistant coaches, anyone affiliated with the program in any way for 48 hours? Please! That was ridiculous. And it was bullcrap.

Not to mention the suspension's effect on the team. No, your coach can't coach you for two days even though we have another conference game coming up.

It was a damn power play. Period. I'm sorry, but an AD has no business treating a coach in such a manner unless there was a serious offense. Just as an AD has no business publicly chastising a coach for the silly little dance Buzz did after an emotional win.

LW is a schmuck, and if Buzz leaves and even one of many factors turns out to be LW, then LW deserves any and all flak he catches, and from my standpoint, the more flak, the better.

[kneelb4zerg]

As far as Buzz's suspension, it was overkill.

Buzz was suspended, oststensibly, due to a recruiting violation on his watch. It was a minor infraction, the type of infraction that happens all the time. Other schools/programs don't suspend a coach for a single minor infraction. As for the assistant lying to the administration, that is a separate issue that does not involve Buzz.

If LW wanted to make a statement to Buzz about who is in control, a one-game suspension was certainly sufficient. And the first conference game on national t.v. to boot.

But no, that wasn't enough for LW. Forcing Buzz to have zero contact with his players, the assistant coaches, anyone affiliated with the program in any way for 48 hours? Please! That was ridiculous. And it was bullcrap.

Not to mention the suspension's effect on the team. No, your coach can't coach you for two days even though we have another conference game coming up.

It was a damn power play. Period. I'm sorry, but an AD has no business treating a coach in such a manner unless there was a serious offense. Just as an AD has no business publicly chastising a coach for the silly little dance Buzz did after an emotional win.

LW is a schmuck, and if Buzz leaves and even one of many factors turns out to be LW, then LW deserves any and all flak he catches, and from my standpoint, the more flak, the better.

How do you know that no contact condition isn't in line with NCAA guidelines?

[IWB]

A couple of things -

First off, the article that was linked says on page two states, "A head coach is presumed responsible for major/Level I and Level II violations (e.g. academic fraud, recruiting inducements)"

Those are major infractions. academic fraud, paying players/street agents.
T-shirts and a ride are not major infractions, they are secondary.

Larry even said back then that it wouldn't have been a big deal had the assistant not lied about it. With that statement, that means that Buzz was not suspended for the violation, but for the assistant lying.

Point is, pointing to new NCAA regulations that are not yet in place nor applicable to the situation in question is not a good argument.

On the dorms - I understand and respect what Caribou is saying, but the fact that other programs are using this against MU on the recruiting trail says that it is a big deal. And while mom likes the kid to blend into the community, when he takes his next two visits and sees the facilities that their players live in, it can hurt recruiting. Also, that dorm isn't about all basketball all the time, it is about them being more comfortable when they travel during the season. It is about having higher doorways, longer beds, higher shower heads and private bathrooms. It is about having air conditioning during the summer etc etc.

[kneelb4zerg]

Well, I didn't mean that the regulations would necessarily apply here. But doing something proactive that mirrors the thrust of those new rules could be construed favorably in terms of promoting an atmosphere of compliance. At least that is my read on it.

[Halo]

How is this helping anything Phantom? You seem to know all of the facts? I don't and neither do you. To continue your name calling rants are pretty childish in my opinion.

[Gato78]

It was right to fire Monarch. It was fine to suspend Buzz. We needed to send a message as an institution. Was it fair to Buzz? No. But he has Monarch to blame, not Larry. Dorm issue I agree with Buzz. Like Caribou, I went to MU when players and rest of student body hung together with one caveat--African American students hung at the Multi Cultural Center. We white guys were invited from time to time. Otherwise, players were spread around the dorms and ended up at the bars on Friday and Saturday. As good as that was, I think we need to compete with the big boys and truth is the amenities are a big deal. Because of that, we need the players to have highest quality facilities possible. If the players must be separated, it has to be in first class facilities. A regular student room in Tower does not cut it.

[Awilhelmscream]

Are they putting them up in East Tower or Carpenter?

[TheSultan]

How is this helping anything Phantom? You seem to know all of the facts? I don't and neither do you. To continue your name calling rants are pretty childish in my opinion.


Exactly. I don't mind reasonable discussions over things like the dorms, etc. But you are going to devalue your opinion when you start going over the top regarding LW. "Power play?" "Publicly chastise?" Give me a break.

[MUMac]

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9096515

Good interview. They discuss the coaching rumors with Buzz.

[IWB]

Are they putting them up in East Tower or Carpenter?

They are in Carpenter

[Nukem2]

How is this helping anything Phantom? You seem to know all of the facts? I don't and neither do you. To continue your name calling rants are pretty childish in my opinion.
Let's not jump off the ledge. If Buzz were to leave for TX, KY, UCLA or say FL...what can we say? Now, if it were a MN, our eyebrows would be arching. In the meantime, let's stay cool.

[bleedbluegold03]

If I ever get uber rich - HA - the first thing I am doing is building a state-of-the-art living center for the basketball players. I don't care if it's not even with the other students or student-athletes. Other students or student-athletes don't garner a $370k profit/person annually for the university.

Far too often the title of "student-athlete" is used conveniently by universities and officials when it's to the betterment of them. Just watch the Fab Five documentary and listen to the anger those five had for the actions carried out by corporations and Michigan University to monetize the success of their 18 year old "student athletes."

The fact they don't get even modestly paid is a joke in and of itself and I commend Kentucky for the facilities they've provided their players. Yes, it is a recruiting tactic, but you won't find more deserving students on campus than the ones suiting up to play at Rupp Arena

[MUWhistler]

If I ever get uber rich - HA - the first thing I am doing is building a state-of-the-art living center for the basketball players. I don't care if it's not even with the other students or student-athletes. Other students or student-athletes don't garner a $370k profit/person annually for the university.

Far too often the title of "student-athlete" is used conveniently by universities and officials when it's to the betterment of them. Just watch the Fab Five documentary and listen to the anger those five had for the actions carried out by corporations and Michigan University to monetize the success of their 18 year old "student athletes."

The fact they don't get even modestly paid is a joke in and of itself and I commend Kentucky for the facilities they've provided their players. Yes, it is a recruiting tactic, but you won't find more deserving students on campus than the ones suiting up to play at Rupp Arena



So what about the engineering student studying away in the lab, or the business school student working full-time, or even part-time, to pay their way through school. And one of these goes on to become uber-wealthy and donates $100m back to the university. Are they driving more profit than the current MU bball player? What should they get in compensation for their return to the university? And what about in down years when the team doesn't generate as much money...do they deserve a cut in their benefits then?

Basketball athletes receive more than any other student already. They get special tutors. They get access to facilities that no other student gets. They get free room and board. It is not like they get nothing for their efforts. I appreciate everything they do to be ambassadors for the university. But let's not go overboard here.

[Halo]

Let's not jump off the ledge. If Buzz were to leave for TX, KY, UCLA or say FL...what can we say? Now, if it were a MN, our eyebrows would be arching. In the meantime, let's stay cool.
Nukem-not sure if this directed at me? Because I agree with what you are saying and my opinion was directed at Phantom who is blaming the MU admin for everything.

[Gato78]

When people mention they should get paid, my response is that perhaps they should not get tuition, room and board. Then maybe they aren't eligible for Pell grants. I think the argument is ridiculous. The game needs to be a game for amateurs. If anything, perhaps we should be limiting the presidents who are maximizing the income created off these kids. The spate of conference change does not cry out for compensating student athletes. Rather, it calls out for university presidents to quit chasing dollars.

[MUMac]

When people mention they should get paid, my response is that perhaps they should not get tuition, room and board. Then maybe they aren't eligible for Pell grants. I think the argument is ridiculous. The game needs to be a game for amateurs. If anything, perhaps she should be limiting the presidents who are maximizing the income created off these kids. The spate of conference change does not cry out for compensating student athletes. Rather, it calls out for university presidents to quit chasing dollars.

Agree completely. The student athletes are getting paid a tuition, room, board and per diem (well, except for after a game!).

[3Marquette]

The engineering or business student (way to omit the entire College of Arts & Sciences, those losers apparently don't go on to do anything), even if they become "uber-wealthy," won't have a fraction of the impact on the school's national perception and profile that a perennially successful nationally regarded basketball program does. Just look at Dwyane Wade, the Final Four run, joining the Big East and continuing that success - the impact that has made on recruiting (regular students - not basketball students) and the dramatic increase in admission standards is remarkable. That is hard to quantify, but don't pretend a one-time 100m GIFT by an alumnus (by the way, the largest gift in MU history is $51 million) drives "more profit" on an annual basis to MU. The success of the basketball program is critical to the success of the university across the board. It raises MU's profile, helps attract better business and engineering students, and generates tremendous revenue for every other athletic program at MU (none of which are profitable) and the school. It also increases Alumni giving as the Alumni feel proud of their University's accomplishments. How were things going during the Mike Deane era? Making sure they have the best living facilities - considering they spend far more time on campus than the ordinary student (Thanksgiving / Christmas Break / Spring Break / the entire summer) is not going "overboard."

[IWB]

Agree completely 3

[Nukem2]

Nukem-not sure if this directed at me? Because I agree with what you are saying and my opinion was directed at Phantom who is blaming the MU admin for everything.No problem. My comment was just a general one.

[TheSultan]

Nukem-not sure if this directed at me? Because I agree with what you are saying and my opinion was directed at Phantom who is blaming the MU admin for everything.


Actually he's blaming LW for everything. Blaming the administration...along with the BoT...for some of the changes is actually more of an accurate statement.

[MUWhistler]

3 - Sorry for excluding Arts & Sciences. That was not intentional and not a slight against anyone from that college. And yes, I was exaggerating with the quote of a $100m gift to the school. Maybe I should have said $10m, or even $2m. Either of those is still more than what a 4-yr player generates for MU at $370k/yr, which bleed quoted.

I agree with you 100% that a successful athletics program generates an enormous amount of goodwill for the school. Some staff from the alumni relations department came to visit me in Chicago back in 2005 or so and I explained to them the practical example of that. Illinois went to the Final Four that year, but by that fall, they had falling enrollment, the school was in shambles and they were searching for a new president. And I directly compared it to the positive impact that 2003 had for MU. The staff that visited me were surprised by the comparison and didn't realize it. So I get it completely and agree with you.

I also agree with you that these players make a large sacrifice to be at Marquette. But the message that bleed said is that because bball players (and I should note that bleed forgot to limit it to only men's players and not even women's players) are the only ones that generate a return for the university and therefore are the only ones who deserve state-of-the-art living quarters. And what really smacks of elitism is the exact quote I highlighted which said, they are the most deserving. Many student-athletes in other sports spend a lot of time on campus during breaks and summer. I knew quite a few of them when I was in school. Do they deserve any less because their sports don't generate a profit? Many students have to work their way through 4 years of MU, some working 40 hrs/wk on top of school. Do they deserve less? It is the success of each and every component of a university that makes it truly great, not just one.

I support MU basketball a lot and am as big of a fan as many. And I do think they deserve some extra benefits for making the sacrifices they do. But I will never put them on a pedestal and say they are the most worthy or only ones worthy of something when we all know that many students and athletes make extreme sacrifices to make it through 4 years at MU. And they are already getting way more than most students got while at MU.

[CaribouJim]

Agree completely. The student athletes are getting paid a tuition, room, board and per diem (well, except for after a game!).

I agree completely as well.

[Nukem2]

Actually he's blaming LW for everything. Blaming the administration...along with the BoT...for some of the changes is actually more of an accurate statement.Not so fast Sultan. All I was saying was that if Buzz took a lateral move like a MN job, we do have to wonderwhats going on. Could be the LW/BoT thing or it could be the new conference or it could just be time for a change.

[mufansince72]

I actually think athletes should receive a little something more than tuition, room, board and books for the effort. I think they should be given a little walking around money. It would have to be an NCAA mandated amount so all players at all schools received the same. It doesn't matter what sport you are in, the sport runs your life. They tell you when you get up, when you practice, when you eat, when you study, etc. I don't think it would be unreasonable for athletes to get $500 bucks or so a month to cover some expenses.

[TheSultan]

Not so fast Sultan. All I was saying was that if Buzz took a lateral move like a MN job, we do have to wonderwhats going on. Could be the LW/BoT thing or it could be the new conference or it could just be time for a change.


OK...I get where you are coming from.

[Goose85]

Buzz's name is mentioned for USC, UCLA, Minn, etc with some articles indicating that there are problems with Buzz and Larry. That has been no secret around here, and obviously not a secret nationally either.

If Buzz leaves for a school in LA (doesn't seem a good fit for him) or for a place like Min who has terrible facilities, then it is all on Larry I think.


Some problems with Buzz leaving (other than the obvious - we would lose a great coach and perfect fit for MU).

- What are the chances MU goes 3 for 3 in hiring coaches?

- Many think next year could be a special season at MU. What if some recruits don't come / players leave?

- How attractive is the MU job knowing the previous coach made the NCAA every year, 3 straight sweet 16 appearances, and wildly liked by the fan base was basically forced out due to a relationship with the administration? Tough act to follow.

- Does not look good for the new conference when one of your flagship schools looses their coach, especially if the move is considered latteral.

[TheSultan]

Buzz's name is mentioned for USC, UCLA, Minn, etc with some articles indicating that there are problems with Buzz and Larry. That has been no secret around here, and obviously not a secret nationally either.

If Buzz leaves for a school in LA (doesn't seem a good fit for him) or for a place like Min who has terrible facilities, then it is all on Larry I think.


You mean in the eyes of the general public...at least those who wish to assign blame? Probably. But I don't think he would deserve all of the blame.

[bleedbluegold03]

"the message that bleed said is that because bball players (and I should note that bleed forgot to limit it to only men's players and not even women's players) are the only ones that generate a return for the university and therefore are the only ones who deserve state-of-the-art living quarters."

- the men's basketball team is the only team that generates a profit for the university. The revenue generated from one out-of-conference, weeknight game surpasses that of the rest of all sports for a full year

"And what really smacks of elitism is the exact quote I highlighted which said, they are the most deserving. Many student-athletes in other sports spend a lot of time on campus during breaks and summer. I knew quite a few of them when I was in school. "Do they deserve any less because their sports don't generate a profit?"

- Yes

"Many students have to work their way through 4 years of MU, some working 40 hrs/wk on top of school. Do they deserve less?"

- Yes

How can I have an elitist attitude if I am counting myself among those that should receive less? I graduated Marquette in '12 with a double major in the College of Business and worked 25+ hrs for the entirety of my college career. I will, with a 99% probability, not give the same return as any player and should not get the same benefits.

Again, the idea that colleges should put everything/one on equal ground is unrealistic and the real unfair situation. This in no way reflects the real world society that we currently reside in. Should an upper-level management person make the same as an entry level position?

They make $370k profit PER PLAYER each year. That's more than double what a player would get in tuition, board and food for a full four years. In what world is that fair?

[IWB]

There are a lot of good points in this thread from both sides. For me, it is not about the compensation, it is not about the equality between regular students and student athletes. It is about competition in the recruiting world - for both sides.

MU is much much harder to get into now that in was years ago. Mainly because there are more people applying to get in, which drives the overall incoming GPA up.

But now let's look at the recruitment of students.

In order to get a higher quality of student, MU is constantly upgrading the facilities, the class offerings, the student experience. There is a new law school, new library, new dental school, new engineering building, new living facilities/dorms/condos/apartments. The campus has been completely overhauled over the last 10 years. Why? Because it needed a new facelift? No, because Marquette needed to upgrade to stay competitive in the battle for the brightest and most talented students. MU needs to stay one step ahead of the competition to battle for these students.

Now you have an athletic department that is heavily funded by the men's basketball program. How do you recruit women's hoops players, soccer players, runners, golfers and lacrosse players? By providing them with the best coaches, facilities and opportunities that you can provide them with. Marquette needs to stay one step ahead of the competition to battle for these recruits.

Now let's look at the men's basketball program. The same applies across the board. In order to be competitive, they need the best recruits possible. What brings in these recruits? The best coaches, facilities, programs and success. You have to compete with the competition for these players every day. If it means giving them better living facilities than your conference opponents then that is what you need to do. Marquette needs to stay one step ahead of their competition.

Again - please stop comparing MU basketball players to other MU athletes and other MU students.

To attract the best students, MU has to offer more than their competition.
To attract the best student athletes, MU has to offer more than their competition.
To attract the best men's basketball players MU has to offer more than their competition.

Please stop comparing what MU B-ball players get as opposed to the rest of the students and compare what MU B-ball players get as opposed to their direct competition!!

[TedBaxter]

Very good points Jim.

[TrevorCandelino]

The Old Gym has a few basketball hoops and a court. Since facilities and accomodations don't matter, why not just move the men's basketball facilities back to the Old Gym and turn the AL into another Rec Plex?

[Litehouse]

There's some extra space in the basement of Johnston Hall, maybe we could move the Athletic Director's office over there. It would give him an opportunity to mingle with the regular faculty.

[pbiflyer]

There's some extra space in the basement of Johnston Hall, maybe we could move the Athletic Director's office over there. It would give him an opportunity to mingle with the regular faculty.

Post of the Year!!!!!!

[mufansince72]

Lots of rumors tonight on Gopherhole that Shaka's extension with VCU is on hold, and that he may just take the Minn job if they can get practice facility commitment!

[Hamostradamus]

FWIW...

Today, 08:07 PM #381 richmondinsider
Junior Member Join Date:Mar 2013
Posts:27
10PM Update

Shaka spent the day talking to both friends and family about what to do. I know for a fact Billy D has told him to go to UCLA. Many people are telling him to do what he thinks is best for his career. He really wants to take one of these jobs but Maya his wife is dead set on the city life in Richmond. She simply loves it.

Shaka's agent at one point thought a deal would get done today with VCU but it did NOT. Shaka is expected to visit with Norwood Teague tomorrow. I'm not sure where the meeting is whether Norwood is comming to Richmond or Shaka is going to MN.

People within VCU are starting to get very nervous as they expected this to be an easy process. The word is they thought they could get him quickly to agree to stay. They are having problems meeting many of his demands very few are about money. The thought is this is the last upgrade of a contract that is really possible for Smart at VCU. If he agrees to a deal here the thought is this is the BEST VCU can give him.

The rumor I'm hearing is Norwood has been calling big money donors all day/night to work out a deal for an out of the world practice facility. Perhaps some people on Gopher Hole have been contacted?

[Phantom Warrior]

His wife is "dead set" on the city life in Richmond? I can't wait to see how this turns out, but I have a pretty good guess.