Toughest players of the last 20 years

[Markedman]

per Bilas......


It's funny how different people can have different opinions......If somebody asked the typical MU fan....."who was the toughest MU player in the last 20 years?"


I'm sure you would get a variety of answers.......I think I would choose Dominic James....

Bilas lists Wade as number 6......he really didn't come to mind for me although I know his success would put him high on many lists I guess

It's insider so here it is.....1 Cleeves 2 Hansbrough ....5 Juan Dixon......really? Juan dixon?

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/bilas_jay/id/9021970/mateen-cleaves-tops-list-toughest-players-20-years-college-basketball

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I have no issue with Juan Dixon, I think many forget how good he was in college. I don't remember the full story but I know he had a rough road to get to where he was.

[IWB]

Jerel McNeal was a pretty tough hombre, as was Travis Diener, heck, not too many people carry a nickname like the Teenage Assassin. As you said Markedman, it will vary, as it all depends on how you define toughness.

[Cooby Snacks]

Well, Diener got taken out by a tackling dummy, so...

[IWB]

He got a good shot in before he went down though.

[Markedman]

I know Dixon was good....never thought of him as particularly tough though......Pyscho T is a no brainer and I can see Cleeves as well......to each his own I guess....

I have no issue with Juan Dixon, I think many forget how good he was in college. I don't remember the full story but I know he had a rough road to get to where he was.

[Cooby Snacks]

I'm still mad at whoever on the staff came up with the idea for that "drill."

[IWB]

The drill had nothing to do with it, it was all on Travis.

[Mucrisco]

I use tackling dummies in drills all the time. Most coaches do.

[Mucrisco]

Bilas has his definition of toughness. I know he has a book about it, but he also wrong a great articles about it. It's a great read:
http://www.mdbball.com/Documents/ToughnessbyJayBilas.pdf

[MUMac]

I use tackling dummies in drills all the time. Most coaches do.

I've seen MU use it during the pregame warm ups at the BC in the past. Usually Todd Smith has it.

[CaribouJim]

I like Bilas for the most part, but I don't like when he ventures into the subjective and his definition of "toughness" is longer than the Unabomber Manifesto. He tries to make his analysis science-like. It used to drive me crazy when covering a UNC game he'd say "no one works harder in all of college basketball than Tyler Hansbrough". Really Jay, all of college basketball???? Give me a break - there could be a DIII kid who is "working harder". Just because Hansbrough had the bug eyes and, in my opinion, ran around spastically he is "working hard". Reminds when Mike Singletary was with the Bears and just because he had the bug look as well the commentators often went with the lazy "no one is more intense", "no one gets into a game more than Mike". Just don't buy it.

[MayorBeluga]

I like Bilas for the most part, but I don't like when he ventures into the subjective and his definition of "toughness" is longer than the Unabomber Manifesto.

You think reading the Unibomber's manifesto was tough. Caribou forced the Fightin' 218 to read his manifesto. The pictures of the leggy supermodels almost make the Lil Monarch stories and showtunes worth it. Almost.

[Mucrisco]

I will have to respectfully disagree. I had a soft team for much of this year. My guys didn't know how to compete, and it wasn't entirely their fault. They hadn't had anyone that pushed them in practice before. I kept preaching the same things over and over again. Communicate, jump to the help line, feet in the air when the ball is in the air, pick up your teamates when they are on the ground, make your teamate better, don't dwell- next play, play team defense, play so hard that you have to ask to be taken out of the game- you can ask to go back in, I'll let you, dive on the ground for loose balls, look your coach and teamates in the eye- give them that respect... I kept preaching this over and over to my guys and they just weren't getting it. They didn't know how to compete. So, what does it mean to compete? What can players do to show they are tough? Play harder? You should be giving 100% effort at all times anyway. I told them that these are the things that show you are competing. Slide your feet, play defense with your feet, and take a charge. Don't be lazy and gamble and reach in for a steal. I talked about all these things. Before my guys could move to the next level of running more offenses, switching defenses etc, I had to make them tougher by preaching all of these things. Then my assistant coach brought in this article from Jay Bilas, and it listed all the things that I was talking about. I agree with it completely. Tyler Hansborough was a tough player, because he did things the right way. He wasn't complacent. He strived to be great at every detail. Most people hated him but I iiked Christian Laettner because he did the same thing. He took charges. He hustled. Nothing about his game was lazy. He competed. These are the things that were measurable that showed that. So you may say that toughness is subjective. That is probably true. But Bilas brings things that are objective, that you can actually measure. These are the things that I can teach to my boys. These are the things that will win a basketball game.

I listen to coaches at all levels. It always cracks me up when coaches call timeout and just simply yell at a team that they aren't competing. They aren't tough. My favorite is when they say,"Be a basketball player!" What the heck does that mean? That tells me the coach doesn't have much to say and is just pissed off. As a player, and as a coach, these are things that you can talk about. I can't tell a player that he just has to be tougher.

[Phantom Warrior]

Toughest MU players in the last 20 years? Physically tough? Mentally tough? Both?

On my list would be Jerel and Dominic plus Lazar. Travis would definitely be on the list as well.

Not sure he falls into the 20-year range, but if he does, Tony Miller would have to be included. From that same era, Faisal Abraham could be as well.

[Markedman]

How about Jae?

[Drbchilds]

I would actually put Joe Chapman on the list as well. I remember him puking into a garbage can next to the bench during timeouts, while refusing to come out of the game......

[TedBaxter]

I'll go with Travis. He was as mentally tough as anyone I can remember in an MU uniform and he wouldn't back down on the physical end either.

[MUMac]

Cordell Henry. Simply for taking a Jason Maxiell punch to the nether regions.

[CaribouJim]

I'll go with Travis. He was as mentally tough as anyone I can remember in an MU uniform and he wouldn't back down on the physical end either.

His favorite place to play was at 'Ville where the crowd was right on top of him and they were typically all over TD. IMO, Travis is one of the most under appreciated players at MU. I think some people forget how really good he was.

[CaribouJim]

Cordell Henry. Simply for taking a Jason Maxiell punch to the nether regions.

Was that the game on the road where MU had a big rally that fell short - Logan hit a shot to win it? Wasn't that voted by ESPN viewers the best regular season game that year or am I thinking of a different game?