Watching Butler vs St. Louis

[TulsaWarrior]

Hinkle Fieldhouse can bring similar cache as Cameron Arena, at Duke. Hinkle is rocking.

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

So is SLU!

[TulsaWarrior]

The new conference needs both schools. Lots of fans in the stands....good size metro markets....the right footprint.

[MUBasketball]

So, where are the SLU haters? Just swept Butler.

[Nukem2]

But, those were Rick's guys. And, Butler loses Clarke and big guy Smith. I still have concerns that these schools will be relevant long run....?

[MUBasketball]

But, those were Rick's guys. And, Butler loses Clarke and big guy Smith. I still have concerns that these schools will be relevant long run....?

It's a valid concern. Butler was in the CBI Tournament last year coming off two straight Final Four's. They definitely lose a lot off this team.

[kneelb4zerg]

It's a valid concern. Butler was in the CBI Tournament last year coming off two straight Final Four's. They definitely lose a lot off this team.

Not every team can make the tournament every year (except Marquette of course).

[MUBasketball]

Not every team can make the tournament every year (except Marquette of course).

Haha, valid point also!

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I think Brad Stevens has enough of a rep at this point to bring guys into the program and continue the success, I'd be concerned if he left though. As for SLU how do their future prospects look? I know the last two years they have been good but is it sustainable? They are hot right now but it will be important that these programs sustain it.

[dubs98]

I was at the game and am officially jealous that we don't play in an arena like hinkle. I realize the additional revenue received with more seats, but wow, what a great place to watch a college basketball game. the place was electric and is a beautiful old fieldhouse. will be fun to watch mu play there in a few years. anyone who goes will not be disappointed.

I was surprised with how well St. Louis traveled. I guess with it being such a big game for them, maybe I should not be surprised, but they were there in numbers and were loud.

Great atmosphere and really good game.

btw, butler will be just find next year. they lose clarke and smith which will be huge, but they are going to be fine. I was talking to my brother in law and they are getting closer to landing some studs. almost landed zeller two years ago (which probably would have brought with yogi ferrell). they are in the running for trey lyles and one other big time indiana recruit whose name is escaping me. they will be good going forward and I truly look forward to seeing them in conference games.

[IWB]

Huge win for SLU and Wauwatosa East grad Jake Barnett!

[dubs98]

oh yeah, regarding stevens. I was asking my brother in law (huge hoops fan in indianapolis who follows the program closely) if he saw stevens leaving for any program. He thought no way, unless IU came calling. Evidently he turned down something like 3mil/yr to go to oregon a year or two ago. He is an indiana kid and I believe his wife wants to stick around this area. I don't see IU opening up any time soon, and I think Stevens will be Butler's face of the program for a long time.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I could see Butler taking off as they get into better and better leagues. Obviously the jump from the Horizon to the A10 was big for them and their recruiting, getting into the B7 should be an additional boost. I am slowly gaining more and more appreciation for St. Louis too, at first I was not as excited about them but the more I think about it I wouldn't mind them. It would certainly be nice to add St. Louis as a place we could recruit out of, I know Issac Chew has tons of contacts down there but think about if he could also sell a game down there every other year.

[IrwinFletcher]

The same can be said for Creighton, right? Once McDermott leaves, won't they become ordinary? They do not have the cache Butler does and does not have the recruiting area either. I am not so sure that SLU isn't a better option than Creighton.

[wiscwarrior]

I think we sometimes focus too much on the past history of potential members and not enough on what inclusion in the new league will do for a program. When the Big East was founded, the new members were able to build their recruiting and their programs by selling their association with the new league. Neither Georgetown nor UConn had much of a program until the league was formed. Who's to say that the same won't happen to programs brought into the new league? As some have said, the key is commitment to great college basketball. From what I have read, most of the programs mentioned as future members have demonstrated this. I think the future of the league is bright with the addition of any of these schools.

[TheSultan]

I think we sometimes focus too much on the past history of potential members and not enough on what inclusion in the new league will do for a program. When the Big East was founded, the new members were able to build their recruiting and their programs by selling their association with the new league. Neither Georgetown nor UConn had much of a program until the league was formed. Who's to say that the same won't happen to programs brought into the new league? As some have said, the key is commitment to great college basketball. From what I have read, most of the programs mentioned as future members have demonstrated this. I think the future of the league is bright with the addition of any of these schools.


I'm not sure about that. Inclusion in the BE did nothing for DePaul for instance.

That being said, I think SLU is showing more dedication to basketball success. The new arena they have built is impressive. As I have said, as long as Xavier and Butler are involved, the 10th member could be any of SLU, Creighton or Richmond and I would be fine.

[TedBaxter]

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

TV market rankings. Omaha is the lowest rated market, but they are still better than Richmond as a conference candidate, IMHO.

One thing I just looked at was the attendance of the games between A-10 schools. Saint Louis and Butler both drew over 10,000 when playing home and home games while Richmond only attracted 7,000 at Butler. Dayton had 13,400 in attendance when Butler came in and Xavier always draws near the capacity of 10,000 at home.

[MU/Panther]

It's a valid concern. Butler was in the CBI Tournament last year coming off two straight Final Four's. They definitely lose a lot off this team. Butler as a CBI team last season, won 22 games.

[MUBasketball]

Butler as a CBI team last season, won 22 games.

Don't try and justify their season with win totals...if the wins were meaningful they would have at least made the NIT.

[MU/Panther]

Don't try and justify their season with win totals...if the wins were meaningful they would have at least made the NIT. Keep in mind it's harder to get into the NIT, as they give auto bids to mid-majors if they win there league in the regular season but do not win the auto-bid to make it to ncaa tourney. That has been around 6 to 8 spots the last few years.

My point in the 22 wins and 20 wins in the regular season, for a having a down year, that's still a good amount of wins.

[MUBasketball]

My point in the 22 wins and 20 wins in the regular season, for a having a down year, that's still a good amount of wins.

Fair point. I'm just pointing out that Clarke fell into their lap for his senior season. Where would they be this year without him? Where will they be next year? Hey, I hope Butler keeps rolling for obvious reasons...but people questioning the ability of Saint Louis to sustain their current success should also be questioning Butler as well. Just a devil's advocate point, really.

[MU/Panther]

Here is Butler's track record since 2000.
NCAA's -2000, 2001, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011- 16 wins in that span.
NIT-2002, 2006

[Goose85]

Here is Butler's track record since 2000.
NCAA's -2000, 2001, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011- 16 wins in that span.
NIT-2002, 2006

The positive with Butler is that of the 8 NCAA appearances MU/Panther lists, they had 4 different head coaches (Collier, Matta, Lickliter and Stevens).

Similarily, VCU has had 5 NCAA appreances since Capel took over (2002), 2004, 2007, 2001, 20012 with 3 different head coaches (Capel, Grant and Smart).

Success with more than one coach may be an indication that even if Stevens or Smart were to leave, there is still a committment to hoops from the administration.

Did these schools just get lucky a few times in a row? That is possible, but a step up in conference could help keep these two coaches, or possibly give them a better chance to maintain that success should Stevens or Smart leave.

[IWB]

Yes, but that track record was in the Horizon, not the A-10 or Big East. No offense to the Horizon League intended.

When Stevens got offers after the second Final Four and turned them down, I said he was nuts because he had Howard & Mack, and once they were gone, they were going to take a serious hit. And what happened? Didn't even make the NIT. Now they have Clarke fall into their lap and they are rolling, but no longer in the top 25.

Don't get me wrong, for obvious reasons I want to pull for Butler too, but I do think they are on an even level with Creighton & St Louis. I expect that they will all be able to recruit better in a bigger conference.

They will have more money, more opportunity, more national pub & notoriety, the question is, which one can land the recruits and stay at a high level? And that usually comes down to the coaches.

[MU/Panther]

2003 was an at-large bid for Butler, as Milwaukee won the auto-bid.