Katz on C7 meeting and Big East Info

[milkbone]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/8795550/kevin-ollie-contract-kevin-pangos-scoring-other-thoughts-nation-college-basketball

[kneelb4zerg]

So Katz is suggesting that a handful of results from the C7 plus this year will have an impact on the TV deal? That's an ignorant comment. This is about a longer view than just how good the teams are this year.

[warriorfan4life]

ESPN is starting the slandering of the C7 now as they are likely to take a much more lucrative offer from NBC Sports or new Fox Sports channel.

[TheSultan]

You really are being sensitive to call the following phrase "slander":

"The Catholic 7 have the familiar names, the tradition and the media markets, but the schools had better start playing well to make offering a lucrative television deal sensible."

While I do think the OP is correct that it is a little over the top, the overall point that the basketball product needs to stand the test of time is an accurate one.

[ValiantSailor]

You really are being sensitive to call the following phrase "slander":

"The Catholic 7 have the familiar names, the tradition and the media markets, but the schools had better start playing well to make offering a lucrative television deal sensible."

While I do think the OP is correct that it is a little over the top, the overall point that the basketball product needs to stand the test of time is an accurate one.

Just as it's also true that through their in-house columnists, ESPN will demean every real or anticipated challenge to their dominance.

VS

[TheSultan]

Just as it's also true that through their in-house columnists, ESPN will demean every real or anticipated challenge to their dominance.

VS


If you say so. Not really sure how the C7 is going to "challenge their dominance" however.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Lets face it, when the new league is formed you can throw out most of the history of these teams. They will be judged by what happens in the first few years, we need the programs involved to be very strong for the first 2 or 3 years to show that this league is for real. Nobody is going to care that MU made a final 4 in 2003 or that Butler did it back to back a few years ago. We are starting a new league and need to make a first impression, the first few years will be crucial for this.

[TedBaxter]

Lets face it, when the new league is formed you can throw out most of the history of these teams. They will be judged by what happens in the first few years, we need the programs involved to be very strong for the first 2 or 3 years to show that this league is for real. Nobody is going to care that MU made a final 4 in 2003 or that Butler did it back to back a few years ago. We are starting a new league and need to make a first impression, the first few years will be crucial for this.

I agree with this and this is why the programs have to amp up their athletic programs, specifically schools like St. John's and DePaul because of the media area's they are in. I will say though that the histories of these schools in basketball will get them a pretty good TV contract at the outset. Some people have complained about some of the schools being mentioned for the 10th, 11th or 12th as being mid-major schools, but these 10th, 11th and 12th schools are all better than the 10th, 11th and 12th schools in most of the BCS conferences now and in the past.

[TulsaWarrior]

Back in the days of the old American Football League two factors forced a merger with the NFL -- owners with deep pockets and the TV contract with ABC. The network did an outstanding job of showcasing the AFL. The C7 needs a high level of commitment from alums. I think any network that steps up to the plate with a big bucks contract will go all out to make it work. Marquette looks to be a huge player if the talent scheduled to arrive and those on hand are in place for 13-14.

[IWB]

I still say the future network and the league must take 5 guys and base the entire marketing campaign around them to promote the new league. Give those guys a financial commitment to stay 3 years. Those 5 are John Thompson III, Jay Wright, Steve Lavin, Buzz Williams and Brad Stevens. Make those 5 the cornerstone of the new league and build it up.

[MUMac]

I agree, Jim. When I think of the original Big East, I still think of John Thompson, Lou Carnesecca, Jim Boehiem, Rollie Massimino and later Jim Calhoun. That was the face of the Big East.

[TulsaWarrior]

Jim you're right the coaches will fuel the upstart league.

Coaches (that relates to institutional support and not messing with happy)

Everything else will stem from that. A network partner needs something to market.

[Mark Miller]

I still say the future network and the league must take 5 guys and base the entire marketing campaign around them to promote the new league. Give those guys a financial commitment to stay 3 years. Those 5 are John Thompson III, Jay Wright, Steve Lavin, Buzz Williams and Brad Stevens. Make those 5 the cornerstone of the new league and build it up.

Awesome idea.

[TheSultan]

I go back and forth on this. At times, I think it would be great for the C7 to start out on a network like NBCS or FoxSports and have them promote the heck out of the league. But I worry that, despite all this promotion, a league like the C7 may not generate significant numbers. And if you can't get enough eyeballs to watch your product, I am not sure how long you stay in the forefront of basketball fans and recruits.

In the end, perhaps we can get something like the tiered rights you see in college football. ESPN gets a Big Monday game...the rest of the weekday games go to NBCS. ESPN also gets a Saturday afternoon game with the rest of the weekend games on NBCS.

[warriorfan4life]

I like the idea of partnering with Fox, as they have had great past success building a channel from the ground up in Fox News.

[TheSultan]

Yeah, I also think they think more toward the future instead of the past. NBC and NBC Sports just has the "feel" of a network from the 1990s. Fox does a good job broadcasting and pushes the envelope a bit more. Good point.

[MUMac]

When Fox took over the NFC from CBS, many laughed. Fox was an upstart and had little else to offer. They helped make the NFL the popular sport it is today (yes, it was popular prior to Fox, but Fox helped take it to a new level). Fox is innovative and does an excellent job marketing and producing their product.

I agree with Sultan, NBC gives me the wrong feel.

If they can get with Fox, do it and don't look back.

[TheSultan]

Speaking of terrible NBC Sports Network ratings...

http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2013/january/nbc-sports-network-ratings-are-a-disaster.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

You really are being sensitive to call the following phrase "slander".

Actually, just being inaccurate. It cannot be slander because slander is spoken.

It could be considered libel, but that's still a stretch.

[CaribouJim]

I still say the future network and the league must take 5 guys and base the entire marketing campaign around them to promote the new league. Give those guys a financial commitment to stay 3 years. Those 5 are John Thompson III, Jay Wright, Steve Lavin, Buzz Williams and Brad Stevens. Make those 5 the cornerstone of the new league and build it up.

I would market the heck out of the "urban-ness" of the league as well - I could imagine something similar to the MU video that precedes the MU line-up where they are passing the ball to each other in different spots on campus. Have a star player on each team with their city skyline or an iconic spot as a backdrop and pass the ball to another city - MU's could be that building that was featured on the opening of Laverne and Shirley and was featured in SI way back when - see the link below. For SJU their guy could be at that legendary playground - can't remember the name. I really hope the HQ is in NYC.

Whatever the marketing campaign is it should should be unique as possible. Not crazy about a focus on the coaches, but if you have to do that at least in the beginning I can live with it I guess. In general, college coaches get too much face time as it is.

http://marquette.scout.com/2/545125.html

[IWB]

that legendary playground - can't remember the name.

Rucker Park? Not sure. My whole point about marketing those coaches is that players come and go, but by promoting your own big name coaches, it says to the basketball world, "We are big time, not a second tier stepping stone conference".

[Goose85]

Rucker Park? Not sure. My whole point about marketing those coaches is that players come and go, but by promoting your own big name coaches, it says to the basketball world, "We are big time, not a second tier stepping stone conference".


Agree with the marketing ideas. St. John's should be at The Garden, Villanova at the Philly Art Museum (Rocky), Georgetown at Capital Hill.

I really agree on getting the name coaches to stay and be the face of the league.
The coaches are what you have to promote now in college hoops, as no player with a name stays more than a year.

Kentucky won it last year and most casual fans couldn't name a player on the team this year, or even many of them heading into their Championship season, but they know Coach Cal. Similar with Duke.

Coaches are the face in college football too, but big name players often star for more than one year. Johnny Football won the heisman - he will be back. Clowney from South Carolina will be back. Golson will QB ND in the title game, he will be back. That is one thing football has going for it, stars come back and play for a few years. Everyone knew who Luck was going into his last year, same with RG3. You actually made a point to watch them.

Who with a big name from last year is still playing in college hoops that is relatively nationally known? I think Zeller may be the only one. The one and done with NCAA hoops makes the coaches the show and not the players.

[Gato78]

The BIG EAST Tournament does a great job og marketing urban. "The World's Greatest Arena" with the marquee and the cabs with some looks around Manhattan as well as the "edgy" tune to go with it. Build off that.

[Halo]

My fear is the Jim Delany's of the world will next demand their league's to go after the C7 Coaches and pay above market rate for salaries to hurt the league that way. Not the blue chip or elite program who already have strong coaches, but the lower level schools paying crazy money to kill the C7 league. That will be the next step. Look at what the SEC did with Arkansas to Bielema, UW and the Big Ten. Guys like JTIII won't leave, but others are vulnerable unless the schools can afford to pay them top dollar still. That is why this TV contract is crucial to allow the C7 schools the ability to pay top dollar.

[TheSultan]

My fear is the Jim Delany's of the world will next demand their league's to go after the C7 Coaches and pay above market rate for salaries to hurt the league that way. Not the blue chip or elite program who already have strong coaches, but the lower level schools paying crazy money to kill the C7 league. That will be the next step. Look at what the SEC did with Arkansas to Bielema, UW and the Big Ten. Guys like JTIII won't leave, but others are vulnerable unless the schools can afford to pay them top dollar still. That is why this TV contract is crucial to allow the C7 schools the ability to pay top dollar.


Are you under the impression that the SEC demanded that Arkansas go after Bielema to harm the Big Ten?

[Halo]

Nothing is 100% certain and neither you or I know why he really left, besides the money. I have heard many reasons for his leaving. Bottomline, the SEC was laughing all the way about taking a 3 time Big Ten champion Head Coach (I know this year doesn't really count) to coach one of their mid-tier teams. It's likely Delany was not happy about it happening.

My point is that the top conferences knew how to cripple the weaker conferences. Recruit them to your conference to destroy the conference. If getting a whole school is not viable, next will be to get the coaches. These guys think of everything in their quest for collegiate domination.

[TheSultan]

Nothing is 100% certain and neither you or I know why he really left, besides the money. I have heard many reasons for his leaving. Bottomline, the SEC was laughing all the way about taking a 3 time Big Ten champion Head Coach (I know this year doesn't really count) to coach one of their mid-tier teams. It's likely Delany was not happy about it happening.

My point is that the top conferences knew how to cripple the weaker conferences. Recruit them to your conference to destroy the conference. If getting a whole school is not viable, next will be to get the coaches. These guys think of everything in their quest for collegiate domination.


I guess I never thought of it that way. And even after you said it, I am not sure it really registers with me.

[Halo]

So you think that if the C7 trumps out there these great coaches that they won't be the first schools the BCS 4 big leagues won't look at for an opening? They are ruthless. The C7 league is what it is.

[TheSultan]

So you think that if the C7 trumps out there these great coaches that they won't be the first schools the BCS 4 big leagues won't look at for an opening? They are ruthless. The C7 league is what it is.


I think other schools would hire C7 coaches because they are good coaches. I don't think they would do so because they are under some directive to weaken the other league.

No offense, but that is a little paranoid thinking going on.

[Halo]

No offense, but you are naive. You must have been asleep the past 2 years watching the demise of the BE and what is now going on to the ACC. Watch the next moves by these leagues and decide if it's being done to destroy a league or build their own up.

[TheSultan]

No offense, but you are naive. You must have been asleep the past 2 years watching the demise of the BE and what is now going on to the ACC. And the next two schools that goto the Big Ten will be a shocker.


Yes. Obviously I missed where other conferences directed their members to hire away Big East coaches to weaken their conference.

Oh, unless the ACC demanded that Notre Dame hire Brian Kelly as a condition of membership. And, knowing that they were eventually going to be in the Big East, demanded that Miami hired Al Golden from Temple.

[MUMac]

Yes. Obviously I missed where other conferences directed their members to hire away Big East coaches to weaken their conference.

Oh, unless the ACC demanded that Notre Dame hire Brian Kelly as a condition of membership. And, knowing that they were eventually going to be in the Big East, demanded that Miami hired Al Golden from Temple.

You keep bringing football coaches into the discussion. It was basketball that Halo mentioned, not football. I see Halo's point, I may not agree, but I think it has some merit - whether agreed or not.

The goal that I had been hearing is 4 16 team mega conferences. Split off from the NCAA for football (at least initially). Perhaps the intent is to do the same for Basketball - who knows? If it is, you would not want the upstart conference to make any noise. As it stands right now, you have the BCS Conferences dominating. Then you have the C7 as the biggest basketball threat to domination (monetarialy).

The fact that Bielema went from one BCS School to another is immaterial and irrelevant. Not even background noise to the discussion. The fact that Brian Kelly moved from Cincinnati to ND over two years ago is not worth even being mentioned in this discussion - except for absurdity on your part.

Now, do I believe that what Halo's is speculating is what is happenning? No. could he be right in his conjecture? Yes, I could see that. I remember several years ago when a large Tennessee booster buddy of mine was talking about the SEC and other conferences moving away from the NCAA. He gave me a road map of what they planned to do. Some of it has happenned, some not. But, since I know he was in the know, it does give me pause.

[TheSultan]

Mac, Halo specifically brought up football when he brought up Beilema and the SEC. And I was only being absurd about Brian Kelly and Notre Dame because there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has hired a coach for this express purpose.

If I am an ACC school looking for a basketball coach, I look at coaches like JTIII and Buzz and I try to hire them because they are good coaches. Not because my conference directed us to weaken the C7.

[Halo]

Yes. Obviously I missed where other conferences directed their members to hire away Big East coaches to weaken their conference.

Oh, unless the ACC demanded that Notre Dame hire Brian Kelly as a condition of membership. And, knowing that they were eventually going to be in the Big East, demanded that Miami hired Al Golden from Temple.

What are you talking about? I know your thing is to argue with everyone, so it's not worth my time anymore.

[CaribouJim]

Rucker Park? Not sure. My whole point about marketing those coaches is that players come and go, but by promoting your own big name coaches, it says to the basketball world, "We are big time, not a second tier stepping stone conference".

Rucker Park is what I was thinking - maybe start with that type of setting and then move to the individual cities.

I totally understand the focus on the high profile coaches, at least till the league's credibility is established and I understand that with players leaving early the coaches provide the consistency for the most part, from year to year. I just think that the networks in particular are lazy in finding compelling stories about players that can draw more eyes to the game. I keep going back to the MSU/UNC 2011 Carrier Classic in San Diego - the big pre-game interview was with Izzo and Williams together doing their usual "aw shucks" mutual admiration society interview. Would have liked to hear the players and how they were making adjustments for the game's outdoor playing conditions etc.