Butler and Xavier sound like done deals....VCU should be the 3rd Team

[mufan2003]

We care about the basketball brand of this new league. Butler and Xavier are great choices. Butler 2 of the last 3 Final Fours and Xavier is coming off back-to-back Sweet 16's.

I think VCU is crucial as a 3rd team. Shaka Smart is nationally recognized from their Final 4 appearance in 2011 and has a personality, in my opinion, similar to Buzz Williams. He was Illinois' first choice before hiring John Groce. VCU lost a nail-biter to Indiana in the 3rd round last year. Shaka has shown he is fairly committed to VCU by turning down Illinois. If VCU joins this new league, it should only further his desire to stay, competing against the likes of Brad Stevens, Buzz Williams, John Thompson III, Jay Wright, Steve Lavin, Chris Mack, etc twice a year. That might be the beauty of staying at 10 as well, an 18-game schedule like the Big East is now with the exception being that every team plays each other home and away.

Starting a new league is unchartered water for MU. It is important to add not only successful programs but "national brand" coaches as well. I think that is part of the recipe of forming a dynamic new league. That is partially my concern about any St. Louis talk right now. Who will be their coach and what direction are they going? Adding schools that not only have proven they can win but also possess young coaches that are nationally recognized can only help push the league to higher competitive levels as time goes on.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Gonzaga should be the third team. VCU has had a couple good years and is starting to show some commitment to their program, but Gonzaga has had a couple good decades and has shown a consistent commitment to their program while establishing themselves as the premier private basketball school in the Pacific time zone.

[kneelb4zerg]

Gonzaga should not be the third team. Keep it cohesive geographically.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

This conference should be about quality basketball. No team in the country outside the BCS has more cachet than Gonzaga. Their merchandise outsells all but 2 C7 teams, including Marquette. They give us a presence that is national rather than regional. If they aren't in the first wave, there's no excuse for not adding them by year 2.

[unclejohn]

Shaka Smart is great. How long is he going to be at VCU? Coaches come and go, and many a team has been a flash in the pan under one coach, then faded. Providence made the Final Four under Pitino. Seton Hall made it to the final game under P.J. Carlisimo. VCU does not have a long history of success, and there is no indication that they will do nearly as well if someone else is their basketball coach. Not so with Xavier and Butler, who have both prospered under a succession of coaches. I would rather see Dayton or Saint Louis.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Again, Gonzaga. Great under Monson and better under Few, who's going on 14 years there.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I really feel strongly that Creighton should be the 10th team, or at the very least if they to 12 they definitely have to be included.

I agree with the others that while Gonzaga is a great school they don't make sense geographically. If they were in the Midwest it would be 100% different.

[Phantom Warrior]

Actually, starting a new league is not "unchartered water for MU." MU helped create the Great Midwest Conference in 1990. Here's info on the league's formation from Wikipedia:

"The Great Midwest Conference was an NCAA Division I athletics conference which existed from 1991 to 1995.

It was formed in 1990 with six members--Cincinnati and Memphis State (now Memphis) from the Metro Conference; UAB from the Sun Belt Conference; Marquette and Saint Louis from the Midwestern Collegiate Conference (now the Horizon League), and independent DePaul. Dayton joined in 1993."

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

Shaka Smart is great. How long is he going to be at VCU? Coaches come and go, and many a team has been a flash in the pan under one coach, then faded. Providence made the Final Four under Pitino. Seton Hall made it to the final game under P.J. Carlisimo. VCU does not have a long history of success, and there is no indication that they will do nearly as well if someone else is their basketball coach. Not so with Xavier and Butler, who have both prospered under a succession of coaches. I would rather see Dayton or Saint Louis.

I was going to post essentially the same thing and then remembered that Anthony Grant did a pretty damn nice job for them (2 tourney's in 3 years). Again, 5 years doesn't make a program but they've been more than just Shaka. I still don't know who I'd want as my third (if my pipedream of adding temple and memphis and having them park fball in cusa doesnt happen)...vcu, creighton, gonzaga, not really sure who i prefer.

[MUBasketball]

Again, Gonzaga. Great under Monson and better under Few, who's going on 14 years there.

No, absolutely not. This is a full membership conference we are talking about. Having the volleyball team, or the soccer team, or the cross country team, fly to Spokane, Washington is ridiculous.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

No, absolutely not. This is a full membership conference we are talking about. Having the volleyball team, or the soccer team, or the cross country team, fly to Spokane, Washington is ridiculous.

You can allow a perennial top-25 in for on sport if it adds significant value, which it would. But even if they are full members, so what? The travel cost difference between Spokane and Dayton, for example, would be less than $50,000, about 0.2% of Marquette's athletic budget. A negligible amount. And for Gonzaga, they are already traveling 850 miles to San Fran 3 times a year and over 1,300 miles to San Diego. If you do 2 divisions, the travel costs wouldn't be much more than they already face in the WCC.

Leaving out Gonzaga is thinking small time. They legitimize this as a national conference and give us the best and most consistent basketball program on the West Coast.

[Smee]

As a father of a Gonzaga Sophomore, I would love to have them in the conference...but you can't get there from here. It is a two leg flight and takes most of your day. I am not as concerned about basketball, but flying the volleyball team, the cross country team and other teams out there is not wise. One way I could consider adding Gonzaga would be as a two league conference. They would be an anchor in the west. West would mostly play west. East would mostly play east.

[TedBaxter]

I'd rather have Dayton or Saint Louis in the conference than VCU or Gonzaga with Creighton another option. Creighton has had two stints in the Missouri Valley, initially being in the conference in 1928, so I'm not sure they want to change.

VCU's former athletic director, Norwood Teague and one of his VCU assistants are now at Minnesota, so does Smart have as much loyalty to that program, plus VCU is a larger public university. Gonzaga is just too damn far away and how long does Few stay there? Remember, we are only thinking of MU's travel cost. Gonzaga would have to think about travel for every one of their programs for EVERY road game.

Nothing is a done deal yet, so lets wait to find out if the schools are really going to leave before we speculate on additional schools.

[TAS35]

Why can't Gonzaga just join for hoops only then? They can keep their other sports in the WCC? Same with BYU for that matter. They want to be independent in football and in the WCC for all else. Why can't that work?

[MU_Iceman]

The reason we all have different opinions on who should be added is because there is a faction of the board that is looking at this from a "tradition, market size, and geography" perspective, and others of us that are looking at this from a "quality" perspective. I don't care where you are located, what your tradition is, or how many TV sets you bring, I want the best BB programs(and by that I mean consistently good, recently), you can find. Gonzaga qualifies. You make it work. VCU qualifies. STL and Dayton do not. Quality will sell. I guarantee you, if you put together the best possible BB conference you can together, people will watch, regardless of market size or anything else.

What's going to draw more eyeballs?? A game between MU and Dayton, or a game between MU and Gonzaga?? The fans of Dayton and MU will watch obviously, but nationally, that game won't resonate at all. Now Gonzaga and MU?? people are familiar with them, and would look at it as a big matchup. They'll watch!

[IrwinFletcher]

I was going to post essentially the same thing and then remembered that Anthony Grant did a pretty damn nice job for them (2 tourney's in 3 years). Again, 5 years doesn't make a program but they've been more than just Shaka. I still don't know who I'd want as my third (if my pipedream of adding temple and memphis and having them park fball in cusa doesnt happen)...vcu, creighton, gonzaga, not really sure who i prefer.

And by moving into a higher profile conference, Smart may be more inclined to stick around. I seem to remember that VCU was making a big financial committment to basketball and this would aid in those efforts.

College buckets is as much about Head Coaches as anything else. This league would have Buzz, J Wright, GT III, and Brad Stephens as headliners. 4 well known and repected coaches that will only raise the awareness of the league as it tries to get things up and running.

[TheSultan]

Why can't Gonzaga just join for hoops only then? They can keep their other sports in the WCC? Same with BYU for that matter. They want to be independent in football and in the WCC for all else. Why can't that work?


Because it is doubtful that the WCC will allow them to do so. Why should they be allowed to park their primary sport, one that the conference sponsors, in another conference while making everyone trudge up to Spokane for soccer games and the like?

[MU_Iceman]

The thing with Gonzaga is...so MU's teams have to go there no more than every other year. And not even all of them would go every other year. Big deal. Besides, MU is the closest of all the schools in this new conference to Gonzaga. Bring them IN!

[MU/Panther]

No, absolutely not. This is a full membership conference we are talking about. Having the volleyball team, or the soccer team, or the cross country team, fly to Spokane, Washington is ridiculous.I don't think any of these schools want to fly soccer, volleyball, etc to Spokane, Washington.

[kneelb4zerg]

I get the appeal of Gonzaga, and it would be tough to turn them away, but I won't be broken up if they are not involved. Part of the unique appeal of this league should be the geographical aspect of the league. Too much of the realignment nonsense throws that stuff out the window. This is a more sane approach.

[ValiantSailor]

Of all the schools being discussed, Gonzaga is the poorest fit. Neither eastern nor urban. They are Catholic, but I would suggest that characteristic is the least important.

VS

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Why can't Gonzaga just join for hoops only then? They can keep their other sports in the WCC? Same with BYU for that matter. They want to be independent in football and in the WCC for all else. Why can't that work?

From talking to some people on the Gonzaga boards, they aren't very happy in the WCC. They view BYU as a band-aid that will be ripped off as soon as a better option comes along for the Cougars and adding Pacific didn't make anyone happy. The WCC has also done a poor job with television negotiations that has rubbed some Zag fans the wrong way. If the WCC wouldn't keep them for their other sports, they could look at rejoining the Big Sky, where they have history and would bring some name recognition.

[mufan2003]

Gonzaga passes the quality test without a doubt. As others have mentioned, the only reason I would pick VCU over them is due to Gonzaga being located in Spokane, WA. It is not a problem for MU or the other schools, but rather the question of how long after Gonzaga joins that they finally say "we cannot do this anymore." (constantly flying across the country for away games, which would practically be every away game for them) It just seems too volatile for the initital formation of the league. If the league would grow nationally and add more schools out West, than they would be in without a doubt.

[Goose85]

Gonzaga could always joing the Mountain West as a member for all things not football.

[The Reptile]

Gonzaga should be the third team. VCU has had a couple good years and is starting to show some commitment to their program, but Gonzaga has had a couple good decades and has shown a consistent commitment to their program while establishing themselves as the premier private basketball school in the Pacific time zone.


VCU is paying Smart some serious money. Plus, they recognize that schools like theirs survive over the long term by hiring quality assistant coaches. That's why they host a major conference for aspiring assistant coaches each summer. Plus, the school is experiencing serious growth. I would welcome them. Now, show me where Butler is making the same sort of commitment? They seem riskier than VCU should their head coach leave?

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Now, show me where Butler is making the same sort of commitment? They seem riskier than VCU should their head coach leave?

You mean aside from their $10.2M renovation to Hinkle Fieldhouse last year, including their brand new 4,000 square foot weight room? And I'm assuming you're ignoring the undisclosed salary Stevens is getting that has so far has led to him not even really considering jobs like Illinois? Also, they have a better track record of success. In addition to the two Final Four trips, they have 10 NCAA appearances in 15 years and another two Sweet 16 trips.

Nothing against VCU, but they haven't done it as successfully for as long. I'd have them fourth on my list of schools after Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga.

[Goose85]

Not sure why Gonzaga would be considered. As it stands now, MU would be the closest conference foe. That would be a 24 hour drive. Schools don't normally fly every team to every event. If Creighton would be added, Gonzaga is only 20 to 21 hours away. People thought WVU was crazy for their distance to Big 12 schools, but they going to get over $20 mil. Gonzaga would lose money on added travel expenses.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Not sure why Gonzaga would be considered. As it stands now, MU would be the closest conference foe. That would be a 24 hour drive. Schools don't normally fly every team to every event. If Creighton would be added, Gonzaga is only 20 to 21 hours away. People thought WVU was crazy for their distance to Big 12 schools, but they going to get over $20 mil. Gonzaga would lose money on added travel expenses.

Gonzaga flies their basketball teams to every event. Add them for basketball only and it's not an issue.

[BLT]

First, I would love the Zags...watching their game against KSU in The Battle for Seattle they are a great add for many reasons...hoops, philosophy, eyeballs, fan fervency, new geography, RPI, TV deal...but also other sports. To make it more practical...need 14 teams and divisions....and that would also include adding St. Mary's, USF or Santa Clara to get the Bay Area in. SMU is preferred and best but only one. Teams can knock off two road games on a West Coast Swing.

Folks seem to not like divisions, travel, more than 10 teams...but a Dayton or Dusquene vs. Zags argument for business/hoops value reasons is a short one.

[TheSultan]

Gonzaga could always joing the Mountain West as a member for all things not football.

Why would the Mountain West allow that? You guys make it sound like no big deal for a conference to add a school for non-revenue sports and send teams up to Spokane. I mean, the MWC didn't want either SDSU or Boise as non-football members so they had to move to the Big West. Why would they for non-basketball members?

You guys act like it is no big deal to have partial membership. (And I'm not counting partials for things like women's lacrosse.) Yet only one major conference has done this, and it is going down in flames. There's a reason. Inherent instability.

[MUMac]

Why would the Mountain West allow that? You guys make it sound like no big deal for a conference to add a school for non-revenue sports and send teams up to Spokane. I mean, the MWC didn't want either SDSU or Boise as non-football members so they had to move to the Big West. Why would they for non-basketball members?

You guys act like it is no big deal to have partial membership. (And I'm not counting partials for things like women's lacrosse.) Yet only one major conference has done this, and it is going down in flames. There's a reason. Inherent instability.

They may do that to be the potential landing strip if Gonzaga finds the travel for the BBall program to be too much.

[unclejohn]

There is absolutely no way they do that. As Sultan pointed out, they will not allow Boise State and SDSU do it for football. And honestly, I do not think the new conference is interested in a basketball-only member. Sorry, but I just do not see where Gonzaga fits. Maybe if the league expands to divisions in the future, but even that is a mighty big stretch.

[MU/Panther]

Hey, guys who are married. Go ask your wife, if you can have sex with another women. Signed, the Mt. West Conf.

[Goose85]

I think it is possible that the Mountain West will eventually get Bosie State and SDSU back for all sports. If that does happen, I think adding a school like Gonzaga would strengthen the basketball side of the conference. I understand why the Mountain West told Boise and SDSU that it was all or nothing.