Big East Hoops Conference

[Goose85]

According to Zagsblog, if the Big East departures ended, the basketball schools would be happy to continue with the current makeup of the Big East.

Of course we know as soon as there is one more departure from the ACC all bets are off.

http://zagsblog.com/articles/big-east-source-if-bleeding-stopped-here-the-basketball-schools-would-be-happy/#more-84496

[dw3dw3dw3]

Almost seem inevitable at this point that UCONN would be the next to go. To not even have contacted the premium A-10 schools seem a little short-sighted, but maybe it's a quick thing once it happens.

Contracts are restructured all the time, are they thinking that MSG wouldn't want to work with them anymore because of the new makeup of the conference? If they dissolve the conference, why wouldn't they be able to re-create themselves as the Big East?

[IWB]

If the conference dissolves, no one gets the name and MSG would target the ACC tourney.

[TheSultan]

I think you would see a negotiated split. Basketball schools keep the conference and therefore MSG. Football schools don't have to pay a buyout. Find some sort of split of tourney credits.

[IWB]

If the basketball schools keep the conference, then the conference would not have "dissolved".

[TheSultan]

If the basketball schools keep the conference, then the conference would not have "dissolved".


Correct. That was my point. Under this scenario, the football schools are enticed to leave the conference without penalty by sharing basketball credits. Perhaps they can even work out some sort of arrangement where the basketball schools travel to the football schools for a couple years. (Think Tulane wouldn't mind having a home game v. Georgetown or MU?)

[IWB]

Under this scenario, the football schools are enticed to leave the conference without penalty by sharing basketball credits.

I understand the reasoning, but why on earth would the football teams be willing to leave? Where are they going to go, back to the conferences that they just left? In most cases, they were replaced. "Hey C-USA - we made a mistake and want back in." C-USA - "We already replaced you, what do you want us to do, tell our new members that just left their conferences to get out?"

It's just not that easy.

[Markedman]

They could just form their own conference. Not sure how attractive that would be.......doesn't sound very appealing to me.

[TheSultan]

Yeah...that is where I always get stuck! :p

My thought is that they would go off and form their own conference, with their own contracts, without having to deal with the basketball schools.

[BLT]

The remaining Big East Football Conference, even with an exodus of UC and UCONN, is a better footballl conference than where those new football teams came from. The ACC football conference, if their football powers then leave as rumored, is just the old Big East football conference...if not arguably weaker than what they just left in the BE because of Boise, SDST, Houston, UC, Temple, ECU. If the new Big East lets BYU have their way like ND, it is by far a better football conference remade then (if the ACC football power exile continues and if UC and UCONN switch). The Big East has urban cable markets, the existing ESPN contract, SNY/BEN, and the MSG. The ACC becomes the old BE--crappy fotoball and great basketball--and a newly signed TV deal that will be less valauble to the networks now that the best football schools left. Think about this: ESPN wasn't willing to pay the BE for its football before...but they were willing to pay the ACC for theirs. But, now the ACC=the old BE in football and ESPN has a much bigger revenue gap to fill. Irony?

[Phantom Warrior]

Exactly. MU is screwed if GTown, Nova, and/or St. John's join a football conference.

However, if UConn, Cincy, USF, or any combination of those schools leave, the schools up a creek without a canoe are Memphis, Temple, Houston, SMU, Tulane, and any of the three still around. What a horrible football conference. At that point, it would be time to split.

If I remember correctly, if the league does split, the side that includes the most original members of the league retain the name. Since none of the football schools was an original member, while GTown and SJU and Providence were original members, then the basketball schools would retain the rights to the conference name.

[IWB]

If I remember correctly, if the league does split, the side that includes the most original members of the league retain the name. Since none of the football schools was an original member, while GTown and SJU and Providence were original members, then the basketball schools would retain the rights to the conference name.

This is correct, but if it were to happen, it would have to happen the right way. "Dissolving the conference" is not the way. If you get the 2/3 majority vote you could do what the WAC did and just stop offering football, but there would be a lot of things that would need to happen before that came about.

[Gato78]

Every scenario has lawsuit written all over it. If I am a football school, and the league votes to disband or exclude football...the first summons and complaint will be filed within 24 hours. The new schools were told they would be playing football and upon which those institutions relied in joining.

[MU88]

Every scenario has lawsuit written all over it. If I am a football school, and the league votes to disband or exclude football...the first summons and complaint will be filed within 24 hours. The new schools were told they would be playing football and upon which those institutions relied in joining.

Nah, if UConn and UC leave, you simply don't add any more football members. You never have to have a vote not to offer football anymore. It simply dies on the vine. Under NCAA rules you need 8 full time members who play football to offer football as a conference. With only 7 football schools who are full BE members, technically, the BE conference can no longer offer the sport under NCAA rules. Now, the NCAA would grant the BE a waiver, at least for a while. But, if the bball schools hold their ground, football will eventually die. I can't see a lawsuit based on a conferences refusal to add schools being successful. Is a court going to order the hoops schools to add Marshall as a full time member so the other schools can play football? I just can't see it. Now, I can see the bball school throwing the football schools a lifeline (they get to keep their NCAA credits, for example) to facilitate the separation. But, I don't see the hoops schools adding ECU and another second tier university just to keep SMU, Tulane and Houston happy.

In short, as long as UC and UConn are around, the football conference survives. No UC and UConn, the days are numbered.

[TheSultan]

MU88...I don't think you have your numbers right. Even if UC and UConn leave, the BE will have 8 members in 2013-14. (USF, Houston, SMU, Memphis, Boise, SDSU, UCF, Temple).

[Nukem2]

MU88...I don't think you have your numbers right. Even if UC and UConn leave, the BE will have 8 members in 2013-14. (USF, Houston, SMU, Memphis, Boise, SDSU, UCF, Temple).
Boise and SDSU are no sure members......guess we'll have to wait and see.

[MU88]

MU88...I don't think you have your numbers right. Even if UC and UConn leave, the BE will have 8 members in 2013-14. (USF, Houston, SMU, Memphis, Boise, SDSU, UCF, Temple).

Boise and SDSU are not full members of the BE conference. They are football onlies. You need 8 football playing, full members to offer football. USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, Tulane, Memphis and Temple make 7. Need 8 under NCAA rules (used to be 6) to play football. If they want to play football in a conference, they need to form a football only conference or form (or join) a conference which have 8 members that play football.

[Mucrisco]

Boise and SDSU are not full members of the BE conference. They are football onlies. You need 8 football playing, full members to offer football. USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, Tulane, Memphis and Temple make 7. Need 8 under NCAA rules (used to be 6) to play football. If they want to play football in a conference, they need to form a football only conference or form (or join) a conference which have 8 members that play football.

MU88,
You never answered my inquiry. You are in favor of staying with the football schools and collecting the money. However, if the basketball schools don't jet before July, those other football schools enter, then UConn and Cincy leave, your plan is to just not add more football schools and let that part die out? Isn't the point that the basketball schools have a short window when they hold the majority. Won't the football schools that are left just keep adding more crappy Bball schools that have football. Are you just hoping that the football schools go away, even though they will have the voting majority?

[Phantom Warrior]

I may be wrong, but I think either a two-thirds or a three-fourths majority is needed to add a school. Football-only schools like ECU, Boise, and SDS would not be able to vote. If I'm right, the remaining football schools would be nowhere near a two-thirds majority necessary to add another weak basketball school to its football side. In short, I doubt that scenario can play out.

I also really doubt that any other major conference would add Cincy, or USF for that matter, though UConn might be a viable target at some point. Let's say UConn defects. Which is a better option?

A) MU, GTown, Nova, St. John's, Providence, SHU, DePaul, Xavier, St. Louis, Butler, and Creighton (and/or Dayton or St. Joe's)?

B) MU, GTown, Nova, St. John's, Providence, SHU, DePaul, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, and Tulane?

[Mucrisco]

I may be wrong, but I think either a two-thirds or a three-fourths majority is needed to add a school. Football-only schools like ECU, Boise, and SDS would not be able to vote. If I'm right, the remaining football schools would be nowhere near a two-thirds majority necessary to add another weak basketball school to its football side. In short, I doubt that scenario can play out.

I also really doubt that any other major conference would add Cincy, or USF for that matter, though UConn might be a viable target at some point. Let's say UConn defects. Which is a better option?

A) MU, GTown, Nova, St. John's, Providence, SHU, DePaul, Xavier, St. Louis, Butler, and Creighton (and/or Dayton or St. Joe's)?

B) MU, GTown, Nova, St. John's, Providence, SHU, DePaul, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, and Tulane?

Thank you. I've been looking for answer to that for a bit now.

[TheSultan]

Boise and SDSU are not full members of the BE conference. They are football onlies. You need 8 football playing, full members to offer football. USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, Tulane, Memphis and Temple make 7. Need 8 under NCAA rules (used to be 6) to play football. If they want to play football in a conference, they need to form a football only conference or form (or join) a conference which have 8 members that play football.


Thank you...I didn't realize that. Here is the NCAA rule in question:

"20.02.6 Football Bowl subdivision Conference. A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men’s and eight women’s conference sponsored sports, including men’s basketball and football and three women’s team sports including women’s basketball. A conference-sponsored sport shall be a sport in which regular-season and/or championship opportunities are provided, consistent with the minimum standards identified by the applicable NCAA sport committee for automatic qualification. (Adopted: 10/31/02 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/15/06)"

[MU88]

I may be wrong, but I think either a two-thirds or a three-fourths majority is needed to add a school. Football-only schools like ECU, Boise, and SDS would not be able to vote. If I'm right, the remaining football schools would be nowhere near a two-thirds majority necessary to add another weak basketball school to its football side. In short, I doubt that scenario can play out.

I also really doubt that any other major conference would add Cincy, or USF for that matter, though UConn might be a viable target at some point. Let's say UConn defects. Which is a better option?

A) MU, GTown, Nova, St. John's, Providence, SHU, DePaul, Xavier, St. Louis, Butler, and Creighton (and/or Dayton or St. Joe's)?

B) MU, GTown, Nova, St. John's, Providence, SHU, DePaul, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, USF, UCF, Houston, SMU, and Tulane?

I think, right now, the bball schools have decided that (B) is the better option. If you take UC out of the mix, then all bets are off. I don't know if the bball schools would decide to expand the conference or not at that point in time. Who could they add? Academically, maybe Rice, Tulsa, Miami of Ohio and Buffalo would be acceptable to the hoops schools. On the other hand, would the football schools want any of those schools? Who knows? But, at least the bball schools will have options if UC and UConn leave them.

[Markedman]

Well if this is true I'm sure Cincy or UCONN will be next to the ACC

http://www.rantsports.com/ncaa-football/2012/12/04/college-football-rumors-florida-state-headed-to-the-big-12/

[Phantom Warrior]

Maybe. Maybe not.

I'm guessing that one of the reasons for FSU's decision, if in fact the report is true, was the addition of Louisville and the possibility of either UConn or Cincy, or both, coming on board later. Adding UConn or Cincy at this point could lead to the defection of one or more additiional ACC schools - maybe Clemson, maybe Virginia, maybe another school.

If the ACC does replace FSU, the primary candidate is UConn. I just can not envision the ACC ever taking Cinci.

[TheSultan]

There is no credible source confirming the FSU story...and word is that FSU *wanted* Louisville as they have better sports programs than UConn.