Tulane to the Big East

[GOMU1104]

"Per @ScottDKushner, Tulane is holding a 1pm press conference today, expected to be about joining the Big East."

[2012Warrior]

Ugh. I don't understand this at all. Hopefully there's a big plan in place and we aren't just adding schools for the sake of keeping the conference on life support.

[MUBasketball]

This is a joke...right? Football stinks, hoops stinks. Why would they be added?

[IWB]

In my opinion this is a colossal mistake. Tulane? Really? The Big East is hoping schools like Louisville, Cincinnati and UConn stay? See ya, it was nice being in the Big East. Do they need to bring the C-USA logo with them? Is ECU far behind?

Bad basketball program, worse football program. I really don't get this at all.

I would love to know what conference members voted for this... Syracuse? Pitt? Rutgers?

[kneelb4zerg]

Playing devil's advocate...don't they need to add someone to help influence the ongoing TV negotiations? If not Tulane, then who?

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Oh man... This is ugly... What the hell is going on here, honestly?!? TULANE?!? REALLY?!

I'm about to lose my damn mind with conference realignment, I really hope MU can get out, playing the likes of Tulane, SMU, UCF, and Houston is much worse than starting a basketball league.

[IWB]

Adding Tulane could be the final straw that breaks this conference.

This year Tulane football finished with a 2-6 C-USA record and 2-10 overall.
Last season the basketball team finished 3-13 in C-USA and 15-16 overall.

Exactly what is the Big East adding?

[kneelb4zerg]

Adding Tulane could be the final straw that breaks this conference.

This year Tulane football finished with a 2-6 C-USA record and 2-10 overall.
Last season the basketball team finished 3-13 in C-USA and 15-16 overall.

Exactly what is the Big East adding?

A TV market.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Could this have been the vote that was referenced yesterday? The one that MU voted no to? I really hope that MU is considering the A10 or making a basketball only league now, this has just gotten ridiculous... This new Big East will just cast us into obscurity, we need to break away and save our image.

[Mark Miller]

Uggh. Horrible decision. Remember Marquette playing in front of hundreds of fans at Tulane back in the C-USA days.

[GOMU1104]

Do you guys really think Marquette will be a part of a conference with Tulane? I doubt we are ever even a part of it.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I don't know where we even go... Plus if we don't intend to be a part of it then why did all these schools vote them in?

[IWB]

It isn't a TV market if the market doesn't give a crap about the team.

Last season they averaged 2,236 fans per home game.
This season their football team averaged 26,066 fans per game, but totals were about 17,000 but the two non-conference games, with Ole Miss and Rutgers really brought out the visiting fans for a weekend on Bourbon Street.

[Goose85]

The Big East needs to hold off adding any new teams and figure out what is going to happen to the ACC.
There is a darn good chance the ACC implodes, at which point who knows - a merger, etc.

Adding other schools at this time, unless specifically instructed to do so by TV and members that want to stay (are there any?), is foolish.
You can tell a school like Tulane you are considering them, but need to wait for this whole thing to shake out in another month.

[GOMU1104]

And now ECU for football only.

Looks to me like they already know Uconn/UL/UC are gone and are finding replacements.

[kneelb4zerg]

It isn't a TV market if the market doesn't give a crap about the team.

Last season they averaged 2,236 fans per home game.
This season their football team averaged 26,066 fans per game, but totals were about 17,000 but the two non-conference games, with Ole Miss and Rutgers really brought out the visiting fans for a weekend on Bourbon Street.


You mean like how the East Coast doesn't care about Rutgers?

[MayorBeluga]

Hizzoner dones't know the last time he was literally speechless.

[IWB]

You mean like how the East Coast doesn't care about Rutgers?

Worse. Rutgers at least carries with them the pedigree of the Big East. Tulane carries a pedigree equivalent to the Springfield Isotopes.

[MUMac]

You mean like how the East Coast doesn't care about Rutgers?

HUGE difference. The Big Ten Network is the reason for that addition. To get them added to the primary tier of cable. The Big East Network does not exist.

[MU88]

Now it makes sense. UC, UL and UConn to ACC, as rumored. Boise and SDSU rejoin the MWC.

Leaves 7 bball schools in one division, 7 football in the other. Two football onlys (Navy and ECU). If Navy gets in the ACC, which was rumored this morning, UC stays, add another hoops teams and you are at 8 and 8.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

If UL, UC, and UCONN leave this new conference will be much worse than the old CUSA... MU needs to bail while they still can.

[kneelb4zerg]

HUGE difference. The Big Ten Network is the reason for that addition. To get them added to the primary tier of cable. The Big East Network does not exist.


Sure there's a difference, but there's an inherent logic to adding more teams and more markets to influence the upcoming TV deal. I don't like it and it particularly stinks for the bball-only who are stuck, but they will stick around b/c there is more $ to be made than there is branching out to a bball only league. It is what it is.

[Goose85]

Interesting slant from CBS and ESPN.

ESPN adds at the end that the Big East will include many schools that have played or are currently playing in CUSA.
CBS discusses TV markets and how close the Big East is to landing BYU.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/21160906/big-east-adding-tulane-but-working-toward-bigger-fish----byu

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8682572/tulane-join-big-east-all-sports-source-said

[MU88]

If UL, UC, and UCONN leave this new conference will be much worse than the old CUSA... MU needs to bail while they still can.

I read the BE has 121 bball credits. At $300,000 each, you are looking at roughly $36 million next year to be split amongst the remaining schools next year alone. Don't forget the exit fees of at least $20 million. No way MU or any bball school walks away from a $6-$7 million payday next year. No way they should either, unless they get in a BCS conference, and that ain't happening without football (which also ain't happening)

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Are we sure there is more money to be made? What happens of UL, UC, and UCONN leave? This conference is no better than any other mid-major at that point. Having the TV deal up right now could be a bad thing, if our value drops we may very well be able to negotiate more with a basketball only league if its more powerful than the A-10.

[Goose85]

ECU coming for football only? What is going on here?

[kneelb4zerg]

Are we sure there is more money to be made? What happens of UL, UC, and UCONN leave? This conference is no better than any other mid-major at that point. Having the TV deal up right now could be a bad thing, if our value drops we may very well be able to negotiate more with a basketball only league if its more powerful than the A-10.


Yes, because of the name and because of football. Look at what the A-10 got for their deal. Peanuts.

[MUMac]

Sure there's a difference, but there's an inherent logic to adding more teams and more markets to influence the upcoming TV deal. I don't like it and it particularly stinks for the bball-only who are stuck, but they will stick around b/c there is more $ to be made than there is branching out to a bball only league. It is what it is.

Tulane will not positively impact the TV negotiations in any way, shape or form. C-USA will not lose any TV revenue bargaining power by losing them.

To compare it to the way the Big 10 is expanding is incorrect. The Big 10 is solely looking at geography right now. They are adding in the higher metroplexes (Baltimore/DC and New York) to maximize the Big 10 Network Payoff. That is their goal.

[kneelb4zerg]

Tulane will not positively impact the TV negotiations in any way, shape or form. C-USA will not lose any TV revenue bargaining power by losing them.

To compare it to the way the Big 10 is expanding is incorrect. The Big 10 is solely looking at geography right now. They are adding in the higher metroplexes (Baltimore/DC and New York) to maximize the Big 10 Network Payoff. That is their goal.

I don't know how you can say that, and who says it's a zero sum game with C-USA? There's more $ out there for everybody.

[MUMac]

I don't know how you can say that, and who says it's a zero sum game with C-USA? There's more $ out there for everybody.

It's obvious you don't know by your arguments. Tulane adds zero viewership, no matter where they are located. If so, the University of New Orleans should be in hot demand as well.

[IWB]

I need to shut down for an hour or I will implode before the Big East does.

348

[IWB]

It took the national media over 2 hours to catch up on this story because nobody could freaking believe it.

[Gato78]

I have started and then stopped typing a post several times. I cannot figure this out. If we are in this version of the BIG EAST for the long haul, I am concerned. If this is the prelude to a restructuring and maybe the BBall only conference while first collecting a whole bunch of cash from departure fees and NCAA credits--then smart play. I will say that the new commissioner does not seem to be any more visionary than the old commissioner--at least right now there is no evidence of bold new leadership.

[MU_Iceman]

The only thing I will say is this...Aresco is a smart guy...VERY smart. There HAS to be a legitimate reason to add them. That being said, I'm not sure ANY kind of TV contract will be worth playing in this damn conference anymore. I was always a proponent of staying in the BE as long as UL and UCONN were there, but even if they stay...It's time now to get out. Even a BB only conference would be better competition than what MU would play in this "new" BE. Yuck!

[dw3dw3dw3]

I believe Aresco is making his play... Yes, Tulane will be a laughing stock, but it's another market. If the networks can start bidding each other and the Big East can prove it's worth as much or more than the future ACC (who in theory may be losing up to 6 teams)... we have something.... Not sure where ECU fits in except to stabilize negotiations.

Virginia, North Carolina to B10.. Miami, FSU maybe NCState + GT to b12.... The rest of the ACC teams will be looking for a home then. NBC will become an immediate player in the sports world.

All of a sudden you have a Big East with ACC "leftovers" (Wake, BC, Clemson, VT, Duke, etc...)...

I think this play will allow all parties to go there separate ways if nothing gets done... This is exactly the pro-active approach you were asking for yesterday. Basically the Big-East has to seem like a more viable conference with a bigger contract than what is left of the ACC after they get raided by b12,b10,sec.

I still think it's a long shot, but he's getting paid to get something done and he's trying.

[MU/Panther]

A TV market.What TV market. It's a LSU state.

Tulane has about 4,000 in the Superdome for there game. I know because I've screen it on Fox College Sports.

[dw3dw3dw3]

+1, I think he's making a play.. The ACC could lose 6 schools or possibly more (4 for big 12, another 2 to big10 in addition to MD, SEC?)... If you get anything stable going with a contract the Big East (with all of its members locked up contractually) might be able to look better than a new ACC (picking from leftover C-USA schools) as a potential landing ground for the ACC leftovers.

IMO, it's the only play right now... the bball only conference will be there till these schools come in next July.

[bleedbluegold03]

the thought of this of this CUSA.5 makes me want to throw up

[MU_Iceman]

Well, look at it this way....MU should dominate this conference every single year, and thus, win the tourney and be in the NCAA's every year. :eek:

[Hamostradamus]

Someone let me know when this stops sucking. Can't wait to hear the collective "meh" from the remaining members. I am also thinking that the failure to take whatever-the-hell tv deal ESPN was offering over the summer was a HUGE mistake.

[TheSultan]

I think the basketball and football schools need to negotiate and amicable break up should two or more schools leave for the ACC. There really isn't much reason to hold onto this hybrid model outside of money, and finding a good split of NCAA credits and buyout $$ should be satisfactory. This isn't the BE that MU joined.

[Halo]

This makes little sense, but we don't have all the facts yet. Who else is leaving? Where are we at on the TV contract? Would some TV execs want Tulane? Who voted to allow these teams in? They must know something. At least I hope!

[TheSultan]

I have started and then stopped typing a post several times. I cannot figure this out. If we are in this version of the BIG EAST for the long haul, I am concerned. If this is the prelude to a restructuring and maybe the BBall only conference while first collecting a whole bunch of cash from departure fees and NCAA credits--then smart play. I will say that the new commissioner does not seem to be any more visionary than the old commissioner--at least right now there is no evidence of bold new leadership.


Gato, I have been saying this for awhile...there really isn't much the BE can do. It is behind the rest of the BCS conferences in the pecking order. An ACC school would be insane to leave them before everything crumbles.

[TheSultan]

This makes little sense, but we don't have all the facts yet. Who else is leaving? Where are we at on the TV contract? Would some TV execs want Tulane? Who voted to allow these teams in? They must know something. At least I hope!


I watch a lot of college football. I cannot recall the last time I watched Tulane. People in New Orleans don't even watch Tulane.

[KMWTRUCKS]

This is truly makes no sense. If we were just looking for money and then dissolve after or have the bballs keep the names then why keep adding memeber's?

[MUMac]

This makes little sense, but we don't have all the facts yet. Who else is leaving? Where are we at on the TV contract? Would some TV execs want Tulane? Who voted to allow these teams in? They must know something. At least I hope!

Several have mentioned this and I still do not understand it. Does getting Chicago State get the Chicago market for someone? No. Tulane has almost as much interest in Wisconsin for their sports as they do in New Orleans. As someone said before me, this is an LSU city and state. It starts and ends with LSU.

Maybe if MU leaves, the Big East will sign on UWM to lock up the Milwaukee market.

[TedBaxter]

East Carolina joining for Football only per reports. Maybe it's already been mentioned.

[Nukem2]

Several have mentioned this and I still do not understand it. Does getting Chicago State get the Chicago market for someone? No. Tulane has almost as much interest in Wisconsin for their sports as they do in New Orleans. As someone said before me, this is an LSU city and state. It starts and ends with LSU.

Maybe if MU leaves, the Big East will sign on UWM to lock up the Milwaukee market.Thats about the size of it all...:confused:

[Mucrisco]

When Louisville or UConn leave, since we are only adding ECU for football, can we expect to add a non football school like Xavier, Butler, or Creighton. I know, I know, the A10 is more stable. Seeing the way things are going, I bet it will be SLU. I'm starting to warm up to that national basketball conference idea.

[pwh00]

Hell, I bet Ledaryl Billingsley can't even remember the last time he watched Tulane.

[MUBasketball]

Can MU get out of this mess? I'm hoping Louisville, Cincy, and UConn are all gone to the ACC so MU can back out. This is a complete joke.

Who wants to go with me and burn down the Big East headquarters? Sad say.

[Mucrisco]

Is there a way to burn down college football?

[MU88]

Why Tulane? Easy question. Assuming UL and UConn leave, the BE needed an all sports member to reach the 8 team minimum for football. (You need 8 all sports schools to offer football) PC, Georgetown, MU and Villanova were not going to let a school like ECU (or a Florida directional school or MTSU or USM or NIU) in the conference as a full member. I think those schools bent over and took one for the team when they let Houston, UCF and Memphis in the conference.

So, what other choices are there? I would say Buffalo, Miami of Ohio, Rice and Tulane are about it. Tulane is building a new stadium. Buffalo has been a second rate program for years. Miami is a small market covered by UC. Rice is covered by Houston. So, who wins? I bet Tulane is the only school east of the Mississippi that the networks and the bball school could agree upon.

[Mucrisco]

Why do you need 8 all sports teams for football? Is that an NCAA rule?

[bleedbluegold03]

acknowledging the known future of the Ville and UConn leaving, I truthfully do not understand why this is a better situation than the A10

very comparable competition (with nova down and stj doing little) and don't need to be screwed around by fball schools

[wiscwarrior]

I think Marquette wants to be in any conference that includes Georgetown, Nova and St. John's. They will follow those three schools until it's no longer possible.

[IWB]

I was always against leaving the football schools and the Big East, but if Cincy, UConn & Louisville are indeed out, why play second fiddle to UCF, USF, Houston, SMU & Tulane?

[Halo]

Mac-I agree. I just don't know what to make of this. There has to be something we don't know, right? Who and why voted for them to be in?

[bleedbluegold03]

for 5 years I have always wrote the Big East as BEast

I've reached a tipping point

from here on out, I shall only refer to it as the Big Easy

[MUMac]

for 5 years I have always wrote the Big East as BEast

I've reached a tipping point

from here on out, I shall only refer to it as the Big Easy

Finally, a post through the darkness that made me chuckle.

[Nukem2]

I think Marquette wants to be in any conference that includes Georgetown, Nova and St. John's. They will follow those three schools until it's no longer possible.

I have a feeling that the rumors of G-Town and SJU to the ACC may have legs. Then MU and Nova could go to the A-10 whilst Depaul goes of to MVC or Horizon. Geez, I hate all this stuff. If UConn, Ville and Cincy move on and GU and SJU go to ACC, its probably time to get unhinged from FB unless Aresco can work TV miracles with a watered down, but large market, BE. Ugh....

[MUMac]

Why Tulane? Easy question. Assuming UL and UConn leave, the BE needed an all sports member to reach the 8 team minimum for football. (You need 8 all sports schools to offer football) PC, Georgetown, MU and Villanova were not going to let a school like ECU (or a Florida directional school or MTSU or USM or NIU) in the conference as a full member. I think those schools bent over and took one for the team when they let Houston, UCF and Memphis in the conference.

So, what other choices are there? I would say Buffalo, Miami of Ohio, Rice and Tulane are about it. Tulane is building a new stadium. Buffalo has been a second rate program for years. Miami is a small market covered by UC. Rice is covered by Houston. So, who wins? I bet Tulane is the only school east of the Mississippi that the networks and the bball school could agree upon.

This post makes a whole lot of sense on the topic.

[MU88]

Why do you need 8 all sports teams for football? Is that an NCAA rule?

Yes. It is an NCAA rule. WAC had a waiver this year.

[ge1974]

Jeff Strohm is an asst coach at Tulane right now. Didn't he recruit Dwyane Wade for MU?::D

[Goose85]

Tulane replaces Rutgers.
Football - far worse, basketball - worse, but Rutgers was not great, road trip - the only win for Tulane.

East Carolina - are they replacing Navy who is now rumored for the ACC? I guess that is a wash, but Navy has more of a national appeal.

Navy to the ACC may keep Notre Dame and other football schools somewhat happy. ND for all things not football, Navy takes ND's football slot. Navy brings more of a following than does Maryland who the ACC lost.

[MU88]

I doubt the ACC will add Georgetown and SJU. Football is driving expansion.

As for the A-10, rumor has it that ECU is joining the A-10 for all sports. So, you want to leave a BE with Temple and Memphis, along with the 7 bball schools, to play ECU, Duquense, St. Bonnies, Fordham, GW, Richmond and LaSalle? Really? X and Butler are okay. Even SLU isn't bad. But what else is there?

[Goose85]

So, if the ACC takes only Navy the dust settles temporarily.
Tulane for Rutgers (wanted BYU but that fell through) and ECU for Navy. My guess is the Big East commish knows Navy to ACC so that is why ECU football only.

The next crap storm starts when the next ACC school decides to leave, either to Big 10 or Big 12.

If there is another team to move from the ACC, then there will be a total ACC meltdown as schools will be scrambling to make sure they are not left out. If FSU doesn't go Big 12 and one or two of UNC / Virginia / Ga Tech doesn't jump to Big 10, then everyone is in a holding pattern and on egg shells for awhile.

If that is the case, and the ACC takes Navy and no others jump, does the Big East continue with TV negotiations?

ACC schools are the key here. Which one jumps first to start the crazy realignment cycle again?

[MUMac]

Tulane replaces Rutgers.
Football - far worse, basketball - worse, but Rutgers was not great, road trip - the only win for Tulane.

East Carolina - are they replacing Navy who is now rumored for the ACC? I guess that is a wash, but Navy has more of a national appeal.

Navy to the ACC may keep Notre Dame and other football schools somewhat happy. ND for all things not football, Navy takes ND's football slot. Navy brings more of a following than does Maryland who the ACC lost.

Navy would also count as one of ND's required ACC opponents. Freeing them up to add another team.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I say don't join the A10, we should raid the A10 among some others to make a basketball conference. Hell is imagine you could even get Memphis to agree to join and leave their football in the Big East... Create a league with

G'Town
Villanova
Providence
St. John's
Marquette
DePaul
Butler
Xavier
St. Louis
Memphis or St. Joe's

This league would be good quality and would command a better TV deal than the A10

[MU88]

So, replace UC, Temple, Memphis, Houston, UCF, USF, SMU and Tulane with Butler, Xavier, St. Louis and St. Joe's (Memphis will not join a non-football league). Don't see much added value. UC to X is a step down. Temple and Memphis to Butler and SLU is probably a step down. St. Joe's is no better than the rest, with SMU and Houston probably having more potential. Plus, your tv contract would be smaller. I don't see where this gets you.

[TedBaxter]

So, replace UC, Temple, Memphis, Houston, UCF, USF, SMU and Tulane with Butler, Xavier, St. Louis and St. Joe's (Memphis will not join a non-football league). Don't see much added value. UC to X is a step down. Temple and Memphis to Butler and SLU is probably a step down. St. Joe's is no better than the rest, with SMU and Houston probably having more potential. Plus, your tv contract would be smaller. I don't see where this gets you.

It gets you entirely away from football.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

You are assuming Cinncinati stays, that isn't a given. Also who says Memphis wouldnt split up their programs? They would still have a place to play football and could possibly make more on their basketball.

[bleedbluegold03]

Something to take solace in is that this all takes place in 2014, or two seasons from now

I will be floored if something doesn't take place from now until then that doesn't either A. shift the Big Easy's conference make up (unexpected departure) or B. shift's Marquette's allegiance; remember, 12 month's ago no one saw Rutgers departing or TCU not coming in.

I trust this institution, its leaders, and most importantly its alumni / boosters too much to allow for Marquette to start the 2014-15 season with the current projected programs in this "conference"

[pbiflyer]

I am just so happy that our AD is concentrating on smoothing out the rough edges of our coach.
Let' see, accomplishments of recent ADs at Marquette:
Our last AD - Hired Buzz and lead us into the BEast,
The one before that - built the Al, got us into the BEast, hired Crean who lead us to a Final Four.
Current one - Um, pissed off the most popular and successful coach since Al.

[Markedman]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8683593/cincinnati-bearcats-making-strong-push-join-acc-source

[Mucrisco]

Right. You're assuming Louisville and Cincy will be there. Still, I'd rather have Xaiver than Cincy. I think Butler is as good as Memphis. Temple is probably better than SLU. Still, by adding these crappy football schools, it makes it harder to add any value in the future. I guess by doing that, you are admitting that the Big East has no options to add ACC schools like Duke or Wake. Instead, it's just a conference with a downwards direction. I know football attracts more money, but at some point, will the football product even be attractive to any networks? If Louisville and Cincy leave, then you are down to adding those schools you mentioned instead of Tulane. At what point in your mind, MU88, is it no longer attractive to try to save the Big East as a football conference? I was against the Bball only, but Louisville and Cincy leaving would be my breaking point.

[Mark Miller]

Tough times for some schools, Marquette included.

Nonetheless, Conference USA never included Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's Temple, Seton Hall and Providence so saying MU is moving "back" to C-USA isn't exactly accurate.

Not sure where all this will end, but at this point, the Big East is just trying to remain afloat. Sounds likely both UConn and Louisville are headed elsewhere.

I've heard potential divisions of the new Big East for basketball could include ...

Division A
Marquette
Georgetown
Villanova
Memphis
Temple
Cincinnati
De Paul

Division B
Providence
South Florida
Tulane
SMU
Houston
Central Florida
Seton Hall

[MU88]

Right. You're assuming Louisville and Cincy will be there. Still, I'd rather have Xaiver than Cincy. I think Butler is as good as Memphis. Temple is probably better than SLU. Still, by adding these crappy football schools, it makes it harder to add any value in the future. I guess by doing that, you are admitting that the Big East has no options to add ACC schools like Duke or Wake. Instead, it's just a conference with a downwards direction. I know football attracts more money, but at some point, will the football product even be attractive to any networks? If Louisville and Cincy leave, then you are down to adding those schools you mentioned instead of Tulane. At what point in your mind, MU88, is it no longer attractive to try to save the Big East as a football conference? I was against the Bball only, but Louisville and Cincy leaving would be my breaking point.

At this point in time, you can't leave the BE unless:

1) You get invited to another BCS conference (ain't happening); or

2) It financially makes sense.

2 may happen, but probably not for 5-6 years when the NCAA credits of UL, UConn, ND, WV, Syracuse and Pitt disappear. If all three UConn, UC and UL leave, then you have to decide if there is a football playing school that is available that you can live with. Can you live with a Buffalo or a Miami of Ohio as a full member? If not, I would vote note to admit any more football playing members. With that, you effectively have forced the seven football playing full members to find a new home. You haven't dissolved the conference, but you have made the football full members unwelcome in the conference. You can now cherry pick any A-10/MVC/Horizon/Colonial schools you want to get to 10 or 12. TV money will go down, but you have a whole bunch of exit fees and NCAA credits to ease you pain.

[bleedbluegold03]

Good Lord that 2nd division is a pushover

Mark, any reason your division break out doesn't take into consideration the eventual deflection of Cincy?

[Litehouse]

Tough times for some schools, Marquette included.
Division A
Marquette
Georgetown
Villanova
Memphis
Temple
Cincinnati
De Paul

Division B
Providence
South Florida
Tulane
SMU
Houston
Central Florida
Seton Hall

Assuming UofL, Cincy, and UConn leave, just make the divisions the football/basketball schools, so the eventual split will just go smoother. (I noticed you included Cincy but not St. Johns)

North
Marquette
DePaul
Georgetown
Providence
St. Johns
Seton Hall
Villanova

South
Memphis
Temple
USF
UCF
Houston
SMU
Tulane

[TheSultan]

I am just so happy that our AD is concentrating on smoothing out the rough edges of our coach.
Let' see, accomplishments of recent ADs at Marquette:
Our last AD - Hired Buzz and lead us into the BEast,
The one before that - built the Al, got us into the BEast, hired Crean who lead us to a Final Four.
Current one - Um, pissed off the most popular and successful coach since Al.


Jeez, does every thread have to be brought back to this???

You have no idea what LW and the Marquette administration is doing behind the scenes.

[MU88]

Assuming UofL, Cincy, and UConn leave, just make the divisions the football/basketball schools, so the eventual split will just go smoother. (I noticed you included Cincy but not St. Johns)

North
Marquette
DePaul
Georgetown
Providence
St. Johns
Seton Hall
Villanova

South
Memphis
Temple
USF
UCF
Houston
SMU
Tulane

You need 8 football playing members. If UC goes, you need to add another. You may want to add an 8 hoops school too. X replacing UC? Just a thought.

[unclejohn]

Jeez, does every thread have to be brought back to this???

You have no idea what LW and the Marquette administration is doing behind the scenes.

Agreed. I think Steve Cottingham got treated poorly as well. And he did more than just hire Buzz. He hired the volleyball coach who has the team in its best shape ever. He added lacrosse.

And when he hired Buzz, and even thereafter, I was reading on some of these boards what a dummy he was. The immediate reaction to Buzz's hiring from many people was "What? You have to be kidding! We didn't hire the next John Wooden? Dean Smith didn't come out of retirement to take the job for free? We couldn't get Bill Self to dump that lousy job at Kansas?"

On one board, one poster tried to put his MBA degree to use and demonstrate conclusively that it was a bad hire. He did that by quantifying the factors that should be considered in hiring a coach. How did he do that? He asked his beer drinking buddies what they thought, added up their answers, and turned them all into numbers. So the ideal coach should be based on x% ability to recruit, x% game coaching, x% fitting into the institution, etc. Then he quoted from Cottingham's remarks at the press conference about what a great fit Buzz was for the university, and Buzz's remarks about how happy he was to be here, and said, "See. The only factor they considered was institutional fit! They don't even know if this guy can coach!" Of course, Cottingham and others involved knew a lot more than that, and he did not try and lay out a detailed description of his hiring process in his introductory remarks. And of course, the critic's numbers were all nonsense anyway. All they were was one guy throwing numbers around to try and prove that his opinion was more than just that - one guy's uninformed opinion.

After a year or two, when Buzz turned out to be pretty good and everybody liked him, there was still plenty of criticism. People weren't complaining about the result, mind you, just the PROCESS! Cottingham screwed up the whole process, but he got lucky. Turns out this guy is not so bad. But that doesn't mean we were wrong!

So it is here. Anybody who thinks our AD has been sitting around with his finger in his nose just idly watching the situation develop is a fool. There is plenty going on behind the scenes. There have been some hints of that from time to time, like leaks that the non-football schools have had discussions among themselves, but most of that is being kept private, as it is intended to be. There are certainly contingency plans in the works.

The unfortunate part of this is that if things do not work out as well as we would like, there might be nothing Larry Williams or the administration could do about it. Bill Cords did a great job getting us into the Big East, and it has been a great place to be. It was also lucky. We were in the right place at the right time. Anybody who was paying attention knew the situation was unstable, and there have been constant discussions since Marquette joined the Big East that we had better enjoy it while it lasts. I hope when all is said and done, we land on our feet in a good position, but it is highly likely that whatever anybody does, we are going to wind up in a less attractive conference, getting less money for TV rights, than we have enjoyed for the last seven years or so. I do not think there is anything Larry or any other AD could do to prevent that. That doesn't mean he is not doing the best he can with a tough situation. Let's see how it works out before trashing the guy.

[Spirit of Bruce]

I don't usually venture outside of the Panther forums, but seriously, Tulane? You guys better hope your AD has the stones to bail. Otherwise, you may as well pull the old C-USA floor out of the BC storage closet and have a Mike Deane bobblehead night... Your brand is at stake.

[Hamostradamus]

There is plenty going on behind the scenes. There have been some hints of that from time to time, like leaks that the non-football schools have had discussions among themselves, but most of that is being kept private, as it is intended to be. There are certainly contingency plans in the works.


This is the problem with both PR and the AD. I suspect there are goings on by the administration, unfortunately the is zero evidence to support your and my conclusion. There has been no reassuring press releases, soft-ball interviews to calm down the donors, ticketholders and fan base. Instead, we are left to say, "Larry and Fr. P must be smart guys, or we wouldn't have hired them. And they must be doing things behind the scenes, so let's all trust that and rest easy."

[unclejohn]

I don't usually venture outside of the Panther forums, but seriously, Tulane? You guys better hope your AD has the stones to bail. Otherwise, you may as well pull the old C-USA floor out of the BC storage closet and have a Mike Deane bobblehead night... Your brand is at stake.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but **** rolls downhill, and you are downhill from us. Didn't your team just move back into a high school gym? Didn't your conference just lose its flagship team? Aren't your fans talking about adding the likes of Northern Kentucky?

[Hamostradamus]

I don't usually venture outside of the Panther forums, but seriously, Tulane? You guys better hope your AD has the stones to bail. Otherwise, you may as well pull the old C-USA floor out of the BC storage closet and have a Mike Deane bobblehead night... Your brand is at stake.

I would make some smart-ass remark about you, but I can't because I think you're right.

[MayorCK]

Not to put to fine a point on it, but **** rolls downhill, and you are downhill from us. Didn't your team just move back into a high school gym? Didn't your conference just lose its flagship team? Aren't your fans talking about adding the likes of Northern Kentucky?

If you want to talk trash in your typical elitist Marquette fashion, come over to our board and do it. He was just making an observation that your team's "Big Time" persona is getting watered down by your conference decision-makers, he wasn't taking shots or looking for trouble.

By the way, didn't you just lose to Butler? Yeah, you did didn't you...

[unclejohn]

If you want to talk trash in your typical elitist Marquette fashion, come over to our board and do it. He was just making an observation that your team's "Big Time" persona is getting watered down by your conference decision-makers, he wasn't taking shots or looking for trouble.

By the way, didn't you just lose to Butler? Yeah, you did didn't you...

It seems strange that you suggest Marquette fans come to your board to remind you of the unenviable situation you find yourselves in. That is not the sort of thing most fans enjoy hearing from someone else's fans on their own board, so I will not do it.

As for Butler, at least we got to play them this year, which is a tougher game than anybody on your schedule.

[Spirit of Bruce]

Not to put to fine a point on it, but **** rolls downhill, and you are downhill from us. Didn't your team just move back into a high school gym? Didn't your conference just lose its flagship team? Aren't your fans talking about adding the likes of Northern Kentucky? I take exception to your mean-spiritedness, because it is unnecessary. First, let me say I agree with the high school gym remark. Second, if you are using the rolling downhill wisdom, I would say Tulane is below us. I've heard nothing of this Northern Kentucky business you speak of.

[TheSultan]

If you want to talk trash in your typical elitist Marquette fashion, come over to our board and do it. He was just making an observation that your team's "Big Time" persona is getting watered down by your conference decision-makers, he wasn't taking shots or looking for trouble.

By the way, didn't you just lose to Butler? Yeah, you did didn't you...


This is funny. UWM is what...0 for a lot....all time against MU and you are going to trash talk a Butler loss?

Please...go challenge Cardinal Stritch for second place in the city of Milwaukee...perhaps Alverno.

[Mucrisco]

Seriously guys? Why are we ripping UWM? He was right. None of us should be happy Tulane was added. Maybe that was the only option, like MU88 said, but it's sad if that is the case. But let's get defensive and play the "my dad is better than your dad" game. (Meanwhile, this Maryland/Northwestern game sure is exciting. I'm sure glad this mess was started again so these two teams can battle it out in the future. Kill me now?)

[MU_Iceman]

I take exception to your mean-spiritedness, because it is unnecessary. First, let me say I agree with the high school gym remark. Second, if you are using the rolling downhill wisdom, I would say Tulane is below us. I've heard nothing of this Northern Kentucky business you speak of.

This coming from a fan of a team who just got rolled in Puerto Vallerta by Jacksonville and.....wait for it....Rider. Well done.

[IrwinFletcher]

This is the problem with both PR and the AD. I suspect there are goings on by the administration, unfortunately the is zero evidence to support your and my conclusion. There has been no reassuring press releases, soft-ball interviews to calm down the donors, ticketholders and fan base. Instead, we are left to say, "Larry and Fr. P must be smart guys, or we wouldn't have hired them. And they must be doing things behind the scenes, so let's all trust that and rest easy."

This is the kind of crap that has caused me to flee the other boards.

So Marquette should issue a press release after every phone call? Every meeting? They should continually update everyone everyday what the situation is? Really?

Because there has been some rumors posted on message boards about LW and Fr Pilarz, it is assumed that both of these guys are incompetant and therefore we will wind up in the Horizon League when all is said and done. So I will turn it around...

What are your sources that says that LW is doing nothing but sitting around and picking his nose? You are convinced that he is a boob and in way over his head, prove it. You don't feel that they are smart guys and doing their jobs, so present your case here....

[TheSultan]

This is the problem with both PR and the AD. I suspect there are goings on by the administration, unfortunately the is zero evidence to support your and my conclusion. There has been no reassuring press releases, soft-ball interviews to calm down the donors, ticketholders and fan base. Instead, we are left to say, "Larry and Fr. P must be smart guys, or we wouldn't have hired them. And they must be doing things behind the scenes, so let's all trust that and rest easy."


Here's one from October...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquette-prepares-for-a-whole-new-world-b278u0v-174681531.html

"I feel real good about the new direction of the Big East," (Larry Williams) said. "We'll always be very mindful of where things go and if things do change, we'll always examine potential options. But right now we feel real good about where the Big East is going."


Honestly, I think people around here look for reasons to be pissed at the administration....

[Litehouse]

You need 8 football playing members. If UC goes, you need to add another. You may want to add an 8 hoops school too. X replacing UC? Just a thought.

They get ECU for football.

[Hamostradamus]

Here's one from October...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquette-prepares-for-a-whole-new-world-b278u0v-174681531.html

"I feel real good about the new direction of the Big East," (Larry Williams) said. "We'll always be very mindful of where things go and if things do change, we'll always examine potential options. But right now we feel real good about where the Big East is going."
Honestly, I think people around here look for reasons to be pissed at the administration....

I am not looking to be pissed, I am looking for reassurance. I am sure Broeker and Larry are on this, but they should make sure the people who fill the stands know it. Alvarez has done a bunch of interviews in the last few months on conference expansion. Then more when Rutgers and Maryland were added. Right now, we are getting most of information from twitter posts from that West Virginia guy. What's MU's position on the addition of Tulane? I know from ESPN that 1. Cincy is wooing the ACC, Louisville and UConn are wooing everyone else, UNC's AD issued a statement on ACC membership to the students, and right now I am getting more info. about MU's plans from IWB and that dude who posted he saw Larry going to Fr. P's office. Seriously, that is all we know. And you have no problem with the information vacuum?

[IWB]

FWIW, the guy from West Virginia was wrong - he said St. John's & G'Town started the vote to disband. He said MU & DePaul were the only hoops schools against it. Wrong and wrong. Completely untrue, no such vote ever happened.

Here is the deal - I have no idea what the commissioners plans are, but he obviously has one - maybe its true, maybe Tulane was THE ONLY option, and if that is the case it is really sad. Here is what I do know......

Out of the basketball only schools there is nobody looking to disband. The basketball only schools are committed to sticking together, committed to sticking it out. Have they discussed a potential basketball only league? Yes, they have, but they know at this point the Big East is still their best option. Are the basketball only schools happy about the Tulane addition? No, and neither are the football schools, but they aren't exactly playing with an excess of time and options here.

What was done needed to be done, as much as that sickens us all, but attacking Tulane, UWM and each other isn't going to do anyone any good.

Are Larry and Broeker sitting on their hands? No. They are on the phone constantly looking for partnerships, looking for options, but at this point in time, neither MU or any of the basketball only schools are in a position to be calling any shots. That is up to the commish, and I hope to God Tulane isn't his final answer. I am glad that Mike Broeker is still in the house as he has spent years building up relationships in the Big East as well as with schools in the ACC, building relationships that will not only foster partnerships, but those that can deliver information. With Mike Broeker on MU's side, you can bet that any potential option will be known to MU.

People are concerned about Larry Williams and Fr. Pilarz as it relates to Buzz Williams, and I do understand that, but the current conference mess is a greater concern not only for the future of the program, but the retention of Buzz Williams. Buzz hasn't turned down a fistful of major programs to coach in C-USA 3.0.

[Hamostradamus]

This is why this board rocks. Information vacuum = filled.

[MUBasketball]

Are the basketball only schools happy about the Tulane addition? No, and neither are the football schools, but they aren't exactly playing with an excess of time and options here.


My confusion is...isn't there a vote for any new membership? If so, how the hell did Tulane get enough votes to get admitted to the league?

[BLT]

None of this makes any rational sense to me. However, the commish did say weeks ago the conference was close to adding another football school. We all assumed BYU...but perhaps these were the two who were being considered and studied so they went two deep. Perhaps the schools made financial commitments. This happened too fast to force this. Perhaps they proactively added the second choice in defense. At this point this is a half CUSA and half BE conference which is still better than the A10. That said, I am going to sit back and enjoy the last year of the true BE.

[kneelb4zerg]

I hope the BE/Aresco plan somehow involves a realistic shot at BYU.

[Hamostradamus]

I hope the BE/Aresco plan somehow involves a realistic shot at BYU.

Not so much (at least not yet)
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/jeremy-fowler/21160906/big-east-adding-tulane-but-working-toward-bigger-fish----byu

[Mucrisco]

Well, Tulane beat SMU in football, so there's that. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing for Big East football...

[MUBasketball]

Well, Tulane beat SMU in football, so there's that. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing for Big East football...

Big East football is so atrocious (obvious, I know). They gobbled up Houston after they had an unbelievable season last year...but then lose their coach and now they suck again. SMU is no good either, and June Jones can't wait to get out.

What a mess.

[Mucrisco]

Take the money out of this. Personally, I think we are eventually going to lose Cincy, UConn, and Louisville. This league looks very appealing:
(Post from Nova board)
"X Fan, agree on all accounts. I posted this on the Providence forum. If UCONN and UL leave, the schools should have an understanding, dissolve the league and create a core group of 12 basketball only schools, split east and west.

But to further build the league, why does it have to be basketball only? The league should not sponsor football, but the A10 model worked for years with the quality that Temple brought that league. I don't think it's necessarily one or the other as everyone is
presenting. Leave the option to 4 football playing schools who also happen to have solid basketball to protect their hoops in such a league: Temple, UMASS, Memphis, Cincy (assuming they are left behind)

I think Memphis would do the same
if given the right option. And Cincy may be left with no choice,
although it would be difficult to convince them to do it. I know if I
was Memphis fan for example, I'd rather secure my hoops in the below
league and throw football in wherever it fits for now because let's be
honest, MAC, Sunbelt, CUSA ain't a whole lot different right now. The
Big East has to stop sponsoring football basically and try to create
this league. But football is like crack for them. They just can't stop.
This below league would be a top 4 hoops league.

East
PC
SHU
SJU
G'town
Nova
Richmond
UMASS *football remains in MAC
Temple *football back to the MAC

West
Marquette
Xavier
Dayton
Butler
St. Louis
Depaul
Memphis *football in MAC or Sunbelt?
Cincy *football in the MAC"

Now, add Creighton, St Mary's, The Zags, VCU, and other strong Bball schools to that and as a pure college basketball fan, that is something to be excited about. Instead, money and college football continue to screw this whole thing up. We can't even hope for a good hoops only conference because we want/need more cash. I'm adopting women's volleyball as my fall viewing sport along with soccer.

[unclejohn]

I take exception to your mean-spiritedness, because it is unnecessary. First, let me say I agree with the high school gym remark. Second, if you are using the rolling downhill wisdom, I would say Tulane is below us. I've heard nothing of this Northern Kentucky business you speak of.

Well, I think it is unwise to drop by this board to tell us how badly things are going. That is not likely to engender a kind response. Yep, it looks like the Big East is in bad shape, but as a result, the conferences further down the food chain, like yours, are in worse shape, so it does little good to take pleasure in the discomfort of Marquette fans. As for the Northern Kentucky remark, that is the speculation on your board (the other one) regarding what to do to replace Butler.

Sorry if that sounds mean-spirited. I personally have nothing against UWM, and no strong feelings about the school or the team one way or the other. I have a couple of nephews who went there, and it seemed to suit them well. As an aside, I would note that Tulane is an excellent academic school and has had more athletic success over the years than UWM. (Then again, they also had a major point-shaving scandal, so I guess you can take your pick.) But in any case, it strikes me as unwise of you to come here and point out that we are in a difficult position, as yours is worse

[pbiflyer]

Here's one from October...

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/marquette-prepares-for-a-whole-new-world-b278u0v-174681531.html

"I feel real good about the new direction of the Big East," (Larry Williams) said. "We'll always be very mindful of where things go and if things do change, we'll always examine potential options. But right now we feel real good about where the Big East is going."

Honestly, I think people around here look for reasons to be pissed at the administration....

Wow, if he is feeling good about the direction of the Big East, he is the only one.

[unclejohn]

Well, I am not trying to put lipstick on a pig, but most of the new additions have had some success in football in the past, and conceivably could again. Tulane, Houston, and SMU have all gone to major bowls and been nationally ranked. None of them could sustain that success, however, and the time when they could do that might have come and gone.

If this winds up in a league that does not sponsor football, I do not see having football schools hanging on as being a particularly good option. I will respectfully disagree with Crisco. It did not work in the A-10. Any A-10 school with a football team left at the first available opportunity. (Penn State, W. Va., Va. Tech, Rutgers, Temple,) If Cinci joined such a conference with us, they would be looking to do likewise, and no one could blame them.

I do think we wind up in a non-football league when the music stops, but it may keep playing for a while yet.

[MUBasketball]

Wow, if he is feeling good about the direction of the Big East, he is the only one.

Well, in Larry's defense, at the time of the quote I was confident also. It was the consensus belief that realignment was done for a while. So despite the Big East defections, they still patched it up as well as could have hoped. So at that time it was:

Losing: Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, West Virginia
Adding: Memphis, Temple, Central Florida, SMU, Houston

Not a fair trade, of course. But, still very solid going forward. Not sure he, or anyone, saw this whole domino effect starting up again. Now, it looks bad.

[TheSultan]

Wow, if he is feeling good about the direction of the Big East, he is the only one.


Hostrodamus wants reassuring words from LW...I provide him with an example...and now he gets jumped on for providing them.

Seriously, you people need to lighten up with the anti-LW stuff until something specific and concrete occurs. Jumping on him for this kind of stuff makes you look petty.

[TheSultan]

FWIW, the guy from West Virginia was wrong - he said St. John's & G'Town started the vote to disband. He said MU & DePaul were the only hoops schools against it. Wrong and wrong. Completely untrue, no such vote ever happened.

Here is the deal - I have no idea what the commissioners plans are, but he obviously has one - maybe its true, maybe Tulane was THE ONLY option, and if that is the case it is really sad. Here is what I do know......

Out of the basketball only schools there is nobody looking to disband. The basketball only schools are committed to sticking together, committed to sticking it out. Have they discussed a potential basketball only league? Yes, they have, but they know at this point the Big East is still their best option. Are the basketball only schools happy about the Tulane addition? No, and neither are the football schools, but they aren't exactly playing with an excess of time and options here.

What was done needed to be done, as much as that sickens us all, but attacking Tulane, UWM and each other isn't going to do anyone any good.

Are Larry and Broeker sitting on their hands? No. They are on the phone constantly looking for partnerships, looking for options, but at this point in time, neither MU or any of the basketball only schools are in a position to be calling any shots. That is up to the commish, and I hope to God Tulane isn't his final answer. I am glad that Mike Broeker is still in the house as he has spent years building up relationships in the Big East as well as with schools in the ACC, building relationships that will not only foster partnerships, but those that can deliver information. With Mike Broeker on MU's side, you can bet that any potential option will be known to MU.

People are concerned about Larry Williams and Fr. Pilarz as it relates to Buzz Williams, and I do understand that, but the current conference mess is a greater concern not only for the future of the program, but the retention of Buzz Williams. Buzz hasn't turned down a fistful of major programs to coach in C-USA 3.0.


This is just awesome information. Thanks much IWB!!

[Mucrisco]

I said that league looks appealing if you take money out of the equation. I agree with you that it is not stable. I am just saying from a basketball standpoint, it looks like a great league, but we can't have it because of money and football. Really, what I'm saying is nothing new to people. I'm just expressing frustration.


Well, I think it is unwise to drop by this board to tell us how badly things are going. That is not likely to engender a kind response. Yep, it looks like the Big East is in bad shape, but as a result, the conferences further down the food chain, like yours, are in worse shape, so it does little good to take pleasure in the discomfort of Marquette fans. As for the Northern Kentucky remark, that is the speculation on your board (the other one) regarding what to do to replace Butler.

Sorry if that sounds mean-spirited. I personally have nothing against UWM, and no strong feelings about the school or the team one way or the other. I have a couple of nephews who went there, and it seemed to suit them well. As an aside, I would note that Tulane is an excellent academic school and has had more athletic success over the years than UWM. (Then again, they also had a major point-shaving scandal, so I guess you can take your pick.) But in any case, it strikes me as unwise of you to come here and point out that we are in a difficult position, as yours is worse