Conference Re-Alignment predictions...

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

So while its painfully obvious that conference realignment is not dead and will be continuing, I have two questions... 1. Does anyone actually think a basketball only conference will happen? I think as much as some may want it, I don't know its feasibly... Question 2. - what do you predict the conference structure looks like 10 years from now.

Thought it would be interesting to see people's guesses.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

It's all a bubble and will collapse when football does. Which is inevitable. No one stays on top forever, and every year there are more and more articles coming out about the impact of concussive and sub-concussive hits. Eventually football will go away from high schools, then colleges, then the NFL will struggle to survive. It seems insane, but some day people are going to look back at American football the way we look back at Roman gladiatorial arenas. I'm guessing that will be within the next century.

Regarding the actual questions...to question 1, yes, it will happen. I still think it's 2-3 years out, but depends on the ACC reaction to this. They will almost certainly come for Louisville and/or UConn, BC be damned. However with them looking weak at the moment, I also think this might be when the Big 12 strikes to get FSU and make their move to 12 (maybe Georgia Tech as the other?). The real question of how this plays out is who voted in favor of the $50M buyout. Maryland voted against it and is betting they can avoid paying that exit fee because it was forced on them. If they win that battle, you'll see other schools that voted against it following them out of the conference, increasing the ACC need to raid the Big East, the only conference they have been able to pillage so far.

Question 2 -- I don't know. I think the four main conferences (B1G, SEC, Pac-12, and Big-12) will all push to 16. This may spur ACC teams to try to get out rather than to try to salvage their own conference. Either that or there will be a fifth hybrid conference of the ACC and Big East, but it will be clearly seen as the top mid-major and not one of the true mega-conferences in its own right.

[Mucrisco]

I think we should make a partnership with the Mountain West for Football. Then, for the basketball, we agree to play non conference games with them. I'd like to play the Zags, San Diego St, and UNLV. Going to Hawaii for a nonconference game would be cool too.

[TheSultan]

It's all a bubble and will collapse when football does. Which is inevitable. No one stays on top forever, and every year there are more and more articles coming out about the impact of concussive and sub-concussive hits. Eventually football will go away from high schools, then colleges, then the NFL will struggle to survive. It seems insane, but some day people are going to look back at American football the way we look back at Roman gladiatorial arenas. I'm guessing that will be within the next century.

Perhaps, but that day isn't happening any time soon....and there is no reasons for conferences to base business decisions on those types of projections.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

When it comes, it's going to come a lot faster than anyone could ever imagine.

And regardless, none of this should be "business decisions". It's disgraceful and a joke that people use that justification. None of these are institutions of higher learning anymore, they're cash cows. Maryland isn't a business. Wisconsin isn't a business. Marquette isn't a business. It's more than a little offensive that they are even allowed to act as though they are.

[TheSultan]

Now you are just being silly. Of course Marquette is a business. It's not a businesses with an owner, but it certain does make "business decisions." And is it really your point that the University of Wisconsin is not an institution of higher education anymore? Really? The 40,000 students that attend school there don't get anything of value for their tuition?

Look, I understand being bitter than Marquette is left out of this and the conference around us is falling apart, but can we keep hold of our rationality here?

[MU/Panther]

East Carolina will be in the Big East.

[Goose85]

So while its painfully obvious that conference realignment is not dead and will be continuing, I have two questions... 1. Does anyone actually think a basketball only conference will happen? I think as much as some may want it, I don't know its feasibly... Question 2. - what do you predict the conference structure looks like 10 years from now.

Thought it would be interesting to see people's guesses.

1 - I really hope a basketball only conference doesn't happen. We need to be associated with the 'haves' as long as possible. Even if the Big East doesn't get close to a Big 12 / Pac 12 / Big 10 / SEC tv deal, a tv deal close, or even half of what the ACC gets is huge compared to the money a basketball only conference gets. We would then go from the Big East to a nice story if we should ever get to the sweet 16.

2 - Well, the Big 10 network and Fox may be changing the landscape. If this plays out the way the Big 10 is anticipating it will, with a huge increase in cable fees for the BTN in New York / Maryland / DC, I am guessing there will be four 'have' conferences with up to 16 teams and and the ACC / Big East / Mountain West / MAC / CUSA / etc will have to figure something out to make sure they can be relevant and generate revenue.

[Goose85]

Big Question - Is Florida State happy with the current playoff structure being the big dog in the the barely relevant ACC football league? Do they worry about the ACC strength of schedule and decide the Big 12 is the way to go?

Big 12 - I think they may still add Florida State and maybe Georgia Tech / Clemson / BYU.


ACC - What happens to the ACC if they lose Florida State? The loss of Florida State would put the ACC on no better ground than the Big East, with or without Rutgers.

[Hamostradamus]

Prediction:

1. ACC will poach 2 Big East teams in the next 10 days, with hints being dropped in the next 48 hours
2. Big East Commish will make overtures to whoever the hell is left
3. Larry will do absolutely nothing other than issue a press release that causes more problems than it solves.

[TedBaxter]

I could see Louisville, UConn and Cincinnati all lobbying to get into the ACC, especially UConn and Louisville. Maybe the Big 12 expands and Cincy joins West Virginia? I'm not sure how the other Big East schools are viewed by these conferences, so I'm just throwing it out there.

[Gato78]

1. Why didn't Syracuse go to the Bigtenelevenetwelvethirteen when it had the chance? Rutgers is a joke athletically and Syracuse can bring more positives.

2. FSU and Clemson go to SEC, UConn will go to ACC, by necessity. Will Carolina stay in the ACC? Seriously. Rumors about them leaving.

3. There is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

[Mucrisco]

This is what should happen. Memphis, Nova, Gtown, MU, Cincy, Temple, Xavier, Seton Hall, St John's Houston, SMU, UCF for all sports. Add Mountain West for Football only. That's still a good hoops conference. Football would still be attractive for Cincy and Louisville, since they have no where else to go. Play non conference games vs Moutain West schools. Add BYU back to the MountainWest and let them keep BYUtv.

[TheSultan]

1. Why didn't Syracuse go to the Bigtenelevenetwelvethirteen when it had the chance?

Because they never had that chance.

[Mucrisco]

New thought with Dodds help: How about MU, DePaul, Cincy, and Louisville go to the Big 12?

[Goose85]

Florida State goes to the Big 12. Big 12 then considers either Georgia Tech or Clemson with the preference being Georgia Tech (Atlanta and state of Georgia).

ACC brings in UConn to replace Maryland. If Fla State leaves who knows - Louisville would love to go.

ACC becomes North Carolina schools and the former Big East (Miami, Va Tech, BC, Syr, ND, Pitt, UConn, etc).

Future - this all backfires on ESPN.

Big 10 - in 2017 first tier rights leave ESPN and go to Fox Sports (who own half of BTN).
SEC looking at their own network.

ACC, who ESPN bet on while trying to crush the Big East, becomes ESPN's major college football property and they are regarded on second tier level with Big East / Mac / Mountain West / CUSA.

SEC holds at current number - 14
Big 10 holds at current number - 14
Big 12 moves back to Big 12, but only if that includes Florida State and another.
Pac 12 stays at Pac 12.

If Forida State leaves the ACC, it does become the Big 4 conferences and ACC and Big East are back on the same level, where they should be.

[Goose85]

New thought with Dodds help: How about MU, DePaul, Cincy, and Louisville go to the Big 12?

Why would they want to share money with basketball only schools - and if so why DePaul and MU?

[TheSultan]

New thought with Dodds help: How about MU, DePaul, Cincy, and Louisville go to the Big 12?

They aren't going to take basketball schools. I'm not sure why it keeps being brought up.

[Mucrisco]

Make a deal that they don't share football money. Wasn't there something like that with the Big East? I could see Nova and Gtown to the ACC. To stabilize the conference, the Big 12 wants to add Louisville and Cincy. Those two schools insist they bring us. We bring a great hoops tradition and our other sports are strong. DePaul brings the Chicago market. It becomes the best Bball conference, and one of the two best football conferences.

[Mucrisco]

They aren't going to take basketball schools. I'm not sure why it keeps being brought up.
And you know that how? I could see the ACC adding Nova and Gtown. Why not the Big 12? If you don't want to discuss this option, simply skip over it.

[Markedman]

MT @AdamZagoria: MT @JFowlerCBS: ACC in talks with UConn, Louisville, USF & Cincinnati about 14th team to replace MD, source told @CBSSports

[Mucrisco]

Also, I hope our administration isn't thinking like you. "That will never happen, so let's not even discuss our options." The fact is that when Pitt and Cuse bolted, a Nova and Gtown applied to get in the ACC. I hope we are being proactive. I hope we are making an alliance with Cincy and Louisville. I hope we are at least making back room talks with the ACC, Big Ten, and Big 12. Every other school appears to be doing it. Why should we just sit and wait to see what happens?

[TedBaxter]

Also, I hope our administration isn't thinking like you. "That will never happen, so let's not even discuss our options." The fact is that when Pitt and Cuse bolted, a Nova and Gtown applied to get in the ACC. I hope we are being proactive. I hope we are making an alliance with Cincy and Louisville. I hope we are at least making back room talks with the ACC, Big Ten, and Big 12. Every other school appears to be doing it. Why should we just sit and wait to see what happens?

They may have applied and as of yet, I haven't seen their name coming up. Villanova and Georgetown both have lower level football programs and that sets them apart from MU.

If these major conferences expand with basketball schools, MU will be one of the first 5 schools mentioned. I just don't anticipate basketball schools being added at this point. Marquette can lobby all it wants and what they can do is keep their options open.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

No football school was making alliances with MU... Just wasn't happening. We have no power or worth here, we are just waiting for all the haves to sort out what they want and then hopefully we can make the best of what is left.

[Hamostradamus]

No football school was making alliances with MU... Just wasn't happening. We have no power or worth here, we are just waiting for all the haves to sort out what they want and then hopefully we can make the best of what is left.

Sadly, this is spot on. We have no leverage on anyone and are merely spectators.

[TheSultan]

And you know that how? I could see the ACC adding Nova and Gtown. Why not the Big 12? If you don't want to discuss this option, simply skip over it.


Do I know for an absolute fact that the Big 12 isn't going to invite Marquette? No. However I see no indications whatsoever that the big football conferences have any interest in any members that don't play football. None.

[TheSultan]

Also, I hope our administration isn't thinking like you. "That will never happen, so let's not even discuss our options." The fact is that when Pitt and Cuse bolted, a Nova and Gtown applied to get in the ACC. I hope we are being proactive. I hope we are making an alliance with Cincy and Louisville. I hope we are at least making back room talks with the ACC, Big Ten, and Big 12. Every other school appears to be doing it. Why should we just sit and wait to see what happens?


I'm sure they are being proactive. But there is only so much that they can really do. An alliance with Cincy and Louisville will break apart as soon as one of them is invited to the B12 or ACC. Do you think either is going to hold out for their buddy Marquette to get an invitation as well???

[CaribouJim]

Do I know for an absolute fact that the Big 12 isn't going to invite Marquette? No. However I see no indications whatsoever that the big football conferences have any interest in any members that don't play football. None.

I have an MU buddy in NYC area and he is hearing SJU and G-Town to the ACC rumors being reported by the Daily News.

[Markedman]

Louisville and Cincy are too busy trying to get into the Acc to make any sort of alliance with MU.

If they did make an alliance it would look something like this...."If we can't get into the Big 12, The ACC or any other football conference that might have us we would be happy to keep playing hoops in a conference with MU"........

[TheSultan]

I have an MU buddy in NYC area and he is hearing SJU and G-Town to the ACC rumors being reported by the Daily News.


No those aren't rumors. That was a speculative article written by the Daily News.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/conference-realignment-store-st-john-rutgers-article-1.1203850

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Rumors I am hearing are that FSU isn't happy with the UCONN being added to the ACC so they are looking to jump to the B12 as they feel the ACC will eventually crumble... I peaked at the FSU board and they seem to feel the same. I have a feeling things are gonna get crazy.

[Mucrisco]

I'm sure they are being proactive. But there is only so much that they can really do. An alliance with Cincy and Louisville will break apart as soon as one of them is invited to the B12 or ACC. Do you think either is going to hold out for their buddy Marquette to get an invitation as well???
No, but it doesn't hurt to have them put in a good word for you. We came into the Big East together. We were in Cusa. It would be better than not saying anything at all for us.

[TedBaxter]

No, but it doesn't hurt to have them put in a good word for you. We came into the Big East together. We were in Cusa. It would be better than not saying anything at all for us.

Everybody is out for themselves.

[Mucrisco]

So basically, all of you would sit on your hands and wait to see what happens instead of being proactive. If Gtown and Nova go to the ACC like they want, what are our options? Settle for the A-10?

[TedBaxter]

So basically, all of you would sit on your hands and wait to see what happens instead of being proactive. If Gtown and Nova go to the ACC like they want, what are our options? Settle for the A-10?

I don't think people are saying that we should sit on our hands. What we are saying is that we believe, right or wrong, that Marquette has limited or no options of joining one of the big conferences as a non-football school. The best options may be staying in a reformatted Big East or create a basketball only league and I'm not sure what the future would be for either option.

[TheSultan]

So basically, all of you would sit on your hands and wait to see what happens instead of being proactive. If Gtown and Nova go to the ACC like they want, what are our options? Settle for the A-10?


I'm not exactly sure what "being proactive" actually means. I'm sure they are keeping in contact with the other bball schools and other members of the BE, but what exactly do you want them to do?

[Mucrisco]

I don't think people are saying that we should sit on our hands. What we are saying is that we believe, right or wrong, that Marquette has limited or no options of joining one of the big conferences as a non-football school. The best options may be staying in a reformatted Big East or create a basketball only league and I'm not sure what the future would be for either option.
I'd like to believe those aren't our best options and the administration shouldn't limit themselves to those. If Nova and Gtown go ACC like they want, our basketball only league sucks. Why not prepare other options in case that happens? Why wouldn't the Big 12 want to strengthen their league in football and basketball to compete? It would arguably be the top two in both football and basketball. That would definitely strengthen its existence.

[Mucrisco]

I'm not exactly sure what "being proactive" actually means. I'm sure they are keeping in contact with the other bball schools and other members of the BE, but what exactly do you want them to do?

Have back room discussions with all those involved. This shouldn't happen in the public and it better be happening now. This back room discussions would take place just like when a coach gets hired. They should be talking to the Big Ten, ACC, and Big 12. They should be talking with other schools and working out agreements.

[TedBaxter]

I'd like to believe those aren't our best options and the administration shouldn't limit themselves to those. If Nova and Gtown go ACC like they want, our basketball only league sucks. Why not prepare other options in case that happens? Why wouldn't the Big 12 want to strengthen their league in football and basketball to compete? It would arguably be the top two in both football and basketball. That would definitely strengthen its existence.

I'd suggest emailing Larry Williams with your questions.

[Mucrisco]

I'd rather e-mail Cords. He's one person that I bet is involved with all of this since he is no longer employed by Marquette. He told me a great story about courting ND with Mike Slive.

[Markedman]

I don't think any of us like where this is going but lets also keep in mind that being a basketball only school hasn't stopped teams like Villanova, Butler,Gonzaga, Georgetown, MU, Xavier and VCU from having great basketball programs and making deep runs in the NCAA tournament.

[Mucrisco]

I don't think any of us like where this is going but lets also keep in mind that being a basketball only school hasn't stopped teams like Villanova, Butler,Gonzaga, Georgetown, MU, Xavier and VCU from having great basketball programs and making deep runs in the NCAA tournament.

I'm not worried. This is actually exciting to me. All of this speculation is a much better topic than where our economy is, war on women, Benghazi, and elections.

[Goose85]

I don't think any of us like where this is going but lets also keep in mind that being a basketball only school hasn't stopped teams like Villanova, Butler,Gonzaga, Georgetown, MU, Xavier and VCU from having great basketball programs and making deep runs in the NCAA tournament.

While that is correct, there has never been a money disparity like there is going to be now. Not sure how that will translate, but it will be interesting, yet sad to see. You can be the head coach at Xavier, or double your salary and be an assistant at Big 4 conference school.

[IrwinFletcher]

Have back room discussions with all those involved. This shouldn't happen in the public and it better be happening now. This back room discussions would take place just like when a coach gets hired. They should be talking to the Big Ten, ACC, and Big 12. They should be talking with other schools and working out agreements.

Are you seriously questioning the Administrations activity right now? Do you honestly believe they are reading these reports, shrugging their shoulders and hoping for the best? You are saying they should be having back room private discussions that should not be public. Agreed, that happens all the time. But if there are no rumors or stories about Marquette, lets not assume that LW and Fr Pilarz aren't doing anything at all.

[Mucrisco]

Are you seriously questioning the Administrations activity right now? Do you honestly believe they are reading these reports, shrugging their shoulders and hoping for the best? You are saying they should be having back room private discussions that should not be public. Agreed, that happens all the time. But if there are no rumors or stories about Marquette, lets not assume that LW and Fr Pilarz aren't doing anything at all.

I never said they aren't having those. I'm questioning why Sultan and Ted Baxter thinks these things aren't even options and we shouldn't be talking about them. I'm saying that I hope the administration is indeed having them and not thinking like those two are. Since you agree with me that they are having these talks, wouldn't you say it's worth discussing them here too?

[Goose85]

Actually, I'm very impressed at how Maryland and the Big 10 kept this quiet, as I'm sure negotiations were ongoing for a while.

[TedBaxter]

I never said they aren't having those. I'm questioning why Sultan and Ted Baxter thinks these things aren't even options and we shouldn't be talking about them. I'm saying that I hope the administration is indeed having them and not thinking like those two are. Since you agree with me that they are having these talks, wouldn't you say it's worth discussing them here too?

Crisco, tell me where I said these weren't options and that we shouldn't talk about them. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[IWB]

Sounds like UConn to ACC a done deal.

Question is, why is all of this happening now, this week? Big 10 trying to put the screws to the Big East TV negotiations?

[Nukem2]

Smith sure shuffles his feet a lot

[IrwinFletcher]

I never said they aren't having those. I'm questioning why Sultan and Ted Baxter thinks these things aren't even options and we shouldn't be talking about them. I'm saying that I hope the administration is indeed having them and not thinking like those two are. Since you agree with me that they are having these talks, wouldn't you say it's worth discussing them here too?

Absolutely. I guess I am just being defensive to the administration as it is assumed they aren't have these talks. I am sure they are scrambling and doing whatever they can to salvage athletics at this point.

[wiscwarrior]

While that is correct, there has never been a money disparity like there is going to be now. Not sure how that will translate, but it will be interesting, yet sad to see. You can be the head coach at Xavier, or double your salary and be an assistant at Big 4 conference school.

There might be a disparity in revenue, but after the costs of fielding a football team are subtracted and the travel expenses of minor sports are added, how much profit will there be for the athletic departments. On 60 Minutes last night it was mentioned that only 22 of the BCS football schools' athletic departments made a profit last year. MU and the other basketball schools may not be at such a great disadvantage long term.

[Mucrisco]

Crisco, tell me where I said these weren't options and that we shouldn't talk about them. Please don't put words in my mouth.

You're right. My apologies. I guess I read them the wrong way, but this is what you said:
"I don't think people are saying that we should sit on our hands. What we are saying is that we believe, right or wrong, that Marquette has limited or no options of joining one of the big conferences as a non-football school. The best options may be staying in a reformatted Big East or create a basketball only league and I'm not sure what the future would be for either option."

[TedBaxter]

Right now I don't know what these large conferences are thinking in regards to adding any other schools, especially non-football schools. I don't know what Marquette should do or can do except be open to every option and stay connected.

[bleedbluegold03]

Sounds like UConn to ACC a done deal.

Question is, why is all of this happening now, this week? Big 10 trying to put the screws to the Big East TV negotiations?

wow, well that officially makes the BEast CUSA with a face lift.

truth of the matter is, as much as people want to pretend we have a hand to play, we are playing with a 2-7 off suit and all we can do is check round the board until someone asks for us

the BEast has really, really gotten messed over with timing of contract negotiations and yes Jim, I do think the timing was done with malicious intent.

Mark / Jim / Aanyone in the know., how far off is the basketball "super" conference? At this point, it seems like it is only a matter of time...

[TheSultan]

I don't think this was announced at a time to harm the BE. From what I have been reading, this next round was kickstarted by ND going to the ACC and this is simply how the timing worked out.

This is probably the best article I have read on this.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8651833/big-ten-shores-weakness-latest-expansion-college-football

[IWB]

When you say basketball super-conference, why would you walk away from Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, and Temple?

It is odd. No, MU has no chips to play, all they can do to make their case and become as strong as they can in every sport they have.

Here is a twist when it comes to the asinine 'super conferences'. When you look at the basketball only schools, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Marquette, Xavier, Gonzaga etc., it is my thought that eventually, one of these conferences will add basketball only members. The question is, who will be first? And, when that move is made, each of the others will jump at it.

So, who takes that first shot?

[Halo]

This is all about spite, greed and Delany pissed Notre Dame went to the ACC. He's trying to torpedo them and the ACC now. Wonder how ND is feeling right now. It's really amazing no cease fire was called by any of these commissioners over the years and how they are all screwing each other.

The book on this on what really went down, who the biggest backstabbers and hypocrites were and who profited will be an amazing story and movie to read and see some day.

[Mucrisco]

When you say basketball super-conference, why would you walk away from Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, and Temple?

It is odd. No, MU has no chips to play, all they can do to make their case and become as strong as they can in every sport they have.

Here is a twist when it comes to the asinine 'super conferences'. When you look at the basketball only schools, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Marquette, Xavier, Gonzaga etc., it is my thought that eventually, one of these conferences will add basketball only members. The question is, who will be first? And, when that move is made, each of the others will jump at it.

So, who takes that first shot?

I agree. Even of that basketball conference is made, what is to stop Gtown and Nova going to the ACC if asked?

[TheSultan]

I personally don't think that bball members will happen because they provide very little in terms of added value. It's not as though it has helped the Big East survive.

And with Boise and SDSU looking at the returning to the Mountain West, am I to assume that this might because television negotiations are not going well?

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Gotta imagine TV negotiations are a bit rough given the BE is taking on water pretty fast right now... Hard to sell a conference when you don't know who will be apart of it a year or two from now.

[IWB]

I personally don't think that bball members will happen because they provide very little in terms of added value.

No matter how much value the bball schools bring, the way this crap keeps going down, I can see a conference jumping at it to be sure that they aren't playing catch up, to make sure that they are the one that leads the charge.

[Mucrisco]

I personally don't think that bball members will happen because they provide very little in terms of added value. It's not as though it has helped the Big East survive.

And with Boise and SDSU looking at the returning to the Mountain West, am I to assume that this might because television negotiations are not going well?
Maybe our conference is actually doing the right thing by telling them to go in a more stable situation so that the Big East could merge with the ACC or form the hoops only conference. It would be funny if all those teams bolted the ACC, left the former Big East schools who end up merging with the Big East again. Basically, you lose WVU, but gain Memphis, Temple, and Duke.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

At this point I guess I hope the Big East doesn't add anyone... There is no team they will be able to get that could save this, let the football teams go and see what you have left at the end and build with that. Otherwise if you keep adding subpar football teams you are just going to be left with bad basketball and football.

[Mucrisco]

At this point I guess I hope the Big East doesn't add anyone... There is no team they will be able to get that could save this, let the football teams go and see what you have left at the end and build with that. Otherwise if you keep adding subpar football teams you are just going to be left with bad basketball and football.

I would agree with you on adding football schools. I wouldn't mind adding a Bball only school like Xavier to strengthen that part of the conference.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

No way would Xavier come... It's more likely that MU gets added to the A10... No respectable school in their right mind would jump to the Big East right now, there is just WAY too much uncertainty... Hell Boise and SDSU are rumored to be leaving for the Mountain West as they feel there is really no difference between the two...

At this point the basketball only schools need to weather the storm till the football programs leave and then they can keep MSG and the Big East name and then try and make a respectable basketball conference from there.

[Mucrisco]

This discussion is going in circles, but the problem I have with a Bball only conference is, what is to stop a school from going to one of the major conferences if they ask. If the ACC asks St John's and Gtown to join, they would gladly leave. If St John's bolts, do we still get MSG? If the ACC, Big Ten, or Big 12 asks us to join, we would leave.

[bleedbluegold03]

it's been going in circles for 12 months, it's the issue of being a small, midwest, catholic basketball school...can't go anywhere

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I think we're going to see both Georgia Tech and North Carolina on the move soon. My guess is both go to the Big East, but those are the two biggest prizes left out there. Huge markets and alumni bases. UConn jumping to the ACC might be a mistake because I don't think they're on much more stable ground than the Big East is.

B1G poaches Georgia Tech and UNC to get access to those markets and because both see that their league is going backwards with rumors (that eventually become true) of Florida State heading to the Big 12 with Clemson in tow. I think Louisville heads for the Big 12 eventually as well, that just seems like one of those moves that has been coming for too long now. Will the SEC expand? I'm not sure, but I could see them making a play for either both Virginia schools.

In the end, I think we end up with four major conferences and one hodge-podge of the ACC and Big East. At some point, these two leagues are either going to have to stop the bickering and just join up or both be destroyed. Here's hoping they have room for basketball-only schools.

[TrevorCandelino]

Here is the question that Marquette fans need to ask - and I think Jim alluded to this possibility in a previous post.......

What are the intentions of the BCS conferences with regard to the NCAA Tournament?

At some point, if it hasnt happened already, the remaining BCS conferences will turn their eye to the one remaining major money grab that the NCAA holds....

And, if the intention of the BCS conferences is to eventually replace the NCAA Tournament, then there will be value in adding high quality, basketball only schools with a similar revenue sharing agreement as the current Big East structure.....

And this "value" goes beyond just "improving the quality of conference hoops" into issues like anti-trust and non-profit exemptions......So, as Jim says, who's first? I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's us....

[TheSultan]

I think there is kind of an unwritten agreement going on between the BCS schools and the NCAA. Don't attempt to touch our television contract or mess with football, and we won't leave the NCAA and gut your basketball tournament. The BCS schools need the NCAA to provide a framework for compliance, post-season staging and for legitimacy. The NCAA needs the BCS schools for the eyeballs they bring to the set for the basketball tournament. As long as both sides understand this, status quo remains.

[wiscwarrior]

I still think that college football conferences should be separate from other sports. That would allow all other sports to maintain their geographic and traditional rivalries and mitigate the travel and other issues associated with expanded football focused conferences. In fact I think that in a few years, after AD's have dealt with this problem, we may see a move back towards old conference affiliations in these sports.

[TheSultan]

If you guys really want to panic, read this twitter account....

https://twitter.com/MHver3

Georgetown, Nova talking with Atlantic 10....BC wants in the Big Ten with Virginia...North Carolina changing its options....St. Johns and Georgetown to ACC.... All the rumors fit to tweet.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I don't buy it. I can't see GT and Nova bailing for more than a million less in TV revenue. There's no upside to leaving early.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Sadly at this point nothing sounds crazy... Any and all of this stuff could happen, if it makes dollars someone will do it. I guess at this point I am just hoping the ACC implodes, that would be poetic justice and I think would provide the most opportunity for Marquette. If the ACC solidifies it leaves the remaining Big East schools out in the cold... The more movement and confusion at this point leads to at least some opportunity for MU...

[KMWTRUCKS]

I hope we were one of the 12 teams that contacted the Big 12. I would join the Big 12 and want none of the 1st Tier TV money for BBALL. Just get or local money and NCAA money. I know we would be giving up a few million that we get now but in the end it would be better for us then the A-10. If we have to come up with an extra 1.6 million that would be better then the A-10 IMO. recruits are OK with BBALL only schools but don't want to play a-10's IMO.

[Goose85]

At this point, If I am UConn, Louisville, Georgetown or Villanova I'm not sure I would rush to jump to the ACC until I know who is staying, or put some provisions in the contract that if certain teams leave (Florida State, Clemson, UNC, etc) I could leave without paying the exit fee. Look at ND. If half of this conference leaves they are still on the hook for the exit fee even though they have never played a game in the conference (see TCU / Big East).

[Hamostradamus]

If you guys really want to panic, read this twitter account....

https://twitter.com/MHver3

What the F is going on? This guy, assuming he knows what he is talking about, makes it sound like schools are calling anyone with a conference trying to get in. Everyone should relax though, Larry is on it and he is a lawyer after all.

[MUMac]

What the F is going on? This guy, assuming he knows what he is talking about, makes it sound like schools are calling anyone with a conference trying to get in. Everyone should relax though, Larry is on it and he is a lawyer after all.

For some reason, I would feel better if it were Cords. I just do not have the confidence that Larry is connected enough or respected enough to get MU anywhere.

[Markedman]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/pete_thamel/11/20/Big-East-realignment/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a2

[IWB]

What the F is going on? This guy, assuming he knows what he is talking about, makes it sound like schools are calling anyone with a conference trying to get in. Everyone should relax though, Larry is on it and he is a lawyer after all.

Not saying this guy doesn't know anything, but keep in mind he is a WVU fan, and they already left, so of course they will feel the Big East is screwed.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I think we're going to see both Georgia Tech and North Carolina on the move soon. My guess is both go to the Big East,

Just reading through and saw this. Big TEN! My guess is both to the Big TEN! :D

[ValiantSailor]

Just reading through and saw this. Big TEN! My guess is both to the Big TEN! :D

I don't have any inside info, but would be shocked if UNC goes anywhere unless NCState and Duke accompany them. Those three schools are too close to separate.

VS

[TheSultan]

NC State perhaps...out of political necessity. But I think if the ACC starts falling apart and the Big Ten throws UNC a lifeline, that they would ditch Duke in a heartbeat.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Agreed, UNC would walk away from Duke without a second thought. They'd probably keep a non-conference series going. The problem with NC State obviously is they are not an AAU member. I don't think the B1G would take them. Will make an interesting decision when it comes to it, because right now the SEC and B1G are really the only two stable looking options.

[ValiantSailor]

I think you both fail to understand the intensity of the rivalry among the Tobacco Road schools. Sure, the students would do anything to harm Duke, but the administrators understand the the rivalry is much bigger than athletics. I seriously doubt you will see Duke separate from UNC or NCState in our lifetime.

I could put Wake into that group also, but they're a little more distant, so their rivalry is a little less intense.

VS

[KMWTRUCKS]

If you get a chance click on that Twitter link again. He may be full of it, but its a great read. He now says Ville is about to get a ACC offer (they are going to lose more then Maryland) and may also get a Big 12 offer. UCONN has the votes. He mentions a Big East moutain West merger with BYU and Army, navy, Air force.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I took a gander at some of the key teams in all of these scenarios boards to find out what they were saying... The best summary I can give is that every single board is chaos with kicking around different ideas and theories... If the AD's and Presidents are even scrambling at a quarter of the rate that the fans are this could get real interesting. There is a lot of panic amongst ACC folks about their house of cards crumbling around them. Also found it interesting that UNC fans made it very clear they would be okay with moving on without Duke and that NC games could be scheduled. Their debate on their board is between the SEC and the Big 10, not much talk of staying...

Found this real interesting... Of course the Louisville board is all about just getting the hell out of the Big East.

[Goose85]

I understand Louisville and others desire to jump to the ACC from the Big East.

So, let's say Louisville leaves to the ACC and pays $15 - $20 mil to do so.

Then, UNC and Geo Tech go Big 10. Next the Big 12 decides to add and gets Florida State and Clemson. SEC sees the conference melt down and takes NC State (who was rumored last go around) and Va Tech.

Now Louisville gets an invite to the Big 12. What do they do? Pay $15-$20 mil to the Big East to leave early and $50 mil to the ACC to leave and go Big 12?

That is why I would be hesitant to go to the ACC so quickly. You may pay a buyout and still end up in the same conference if the ACC and Big East merge.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I think you both fail to understand the intensity of the rivalry among the Tobacco Road schools.

At the end of the day, it'll come down to dollars making the most sense. Look at the Big 5 in Philadelphia. They still play each other every year. Even with different conferences, Tobacco Road could do the same thing. They'd quickly get over it being twice a year once they started cashing B1G and SEC shared revenue checks.

[TheSultan]

I think you both fail to understand the intensity of the rivalry among the Tobacco Road schools. Sure, the students would do anything to harm Duke, but the administrators understand the the rivalry is much bigger than athletics. I seriously doubt you will see Duke separate from UNC or NCState in our lifetime.

I could put Wake into that group also, but they're a little more distant, so their rivalry is a little less intense.

VS


I think you fail to understand how much money could be at stake here. There are projections that B10 teams might clear as much as $30M per school in 2016...prior to their first tier rights contracts are renegotiated. Right now the ACC is making about $17M per year. Do you think that rivalry is worth $13M per year to UNC? Even if the B10 only clears $25M per school, do you think its worth $8M? And this doesn't even touch the expanded markets that UNC membership could bring and the new first tier rights in 2017.

UNC might be in the same position the BE was back in the 80s when it rejected Penn State's membership. Stay with your basketball-centric way of thinking, and you very well could get left behind.

[Halo]

I wonder who the White Knight for the basketball only schools will be at this point.

[Goose85]

The problem is everyone is paranoid, and there is no loyalty out of fear of being left in the cold. No way UNC tells the Big 10 no out of fear someone else takes their spot and NC State goes SEC.

I don't think there is a lot of juice to the football rivalry aspect. UNC - Duke - NC State - Wake could all set up a nice payday with a little made for TV basketball event and keep that rivalry alive.

[TheSultan]

Not that I predict this will actually occur, but here is some out of the box thinking on what the Big Ten might become...two ten team divisions:

MIDWEST: "Traditional" Big Ten minus Ohio State, plus Nebraska
ATLANTIC: Ohio State, Penn State, BC, Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia, UNC, NC State, Georgia Tech, Florida State

This blows the idea of what a conference is out of the water. It becomes a television rights organization more than anything. The two "divisions" are more like conferences in the traditional sense of the word.

[KMWTRUCKS]

No idea if any of this is True:

This does not sound good: https://twitter.com/MHver3

sounds like we have no options at this point if we were the only BBALL to say no. bummer. Sounds like Ville and UCONN are both still in play for ACC.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Depaul and Marquette only non-fb to vote no.

7m MHver3 ‏@MHver3
So I was wrong earlier. BE not dead yet! Key word. Yet

8m MHver3 ‏@MHver3
St Johns and GT Introduced a vote to dissolve the BigEast today. They were 2 votes short of the 2/3 needed. 3 schools were no shows.

[TheSultan]

Oh great. So if this is true, MU and DePaul don't think that the other eastern schools will be their advocates moving forward. So the idea of hanging with Georgetown and St. Johns may not be possible.

[dw3dw3dw3]

Wow... That's amazing... wonder what they are up to, seems a little early to dissolve unless you've got somewhere else to go. I've heard about St Johns, GTown, and Nova possibly having homes, but what about Providence/Seton Hall? As mentioned somewhere else, there's a lot of NCAA credits still out there for one to just walk away with no conference or TV contract. ACC possibly making a play for the entire east coast?

[IWB]

Well - look at the non football schools - Seton Hall, Providence, St. John's, Georgetown, Villanova - if they were two votes short of 2-3rds, those schools would be the only ones to vote to dissolve.

Don't know what to believe here, why would basketball only schools vote to dissolve now? There is no reason. If the end result is a basketball only conference, you can do that at any time. Why would you not wait until the defectors leave and collect their departure cash? Makes no sense. If St. John's and Georgetown want out, they don't have to do it now unless the ACC has contacted them.

When is the Big East going to go on the offensive, never?

[TheSultan]

What can they go on the offensive with? They can't offer more money, and that pretty much seems the only thing that matters.

[IWB]

Actually, they can control the money right now as they are in the midst of a negotiation.

The ACC has a contract in place. For every team they bring in, everyone's slice of the pie gets smaller.

If someone like NBC really wants the Big East, work with them and say, "Ok, we will try to get Syracuse and Pitt back, what will you do if we accomplish that? Ok, then what if we can lure Boston College and Duke?" etc etc

The Big East is in an open negotiation, and can work with the bidders the same way that ESPN worked with the ACC to get Syracuse and Pitt.

Be proactive and play the game instead of sitting back and waiting for them to pick you apart. If it doesn't work, at least you tried to do something, as opposed to nothing.

[MU_Iceman]

No idea if any of this is True:

This does not sound good: https://twitter.com/MHver3

sounds like we have no options at this point if we were the only BBALL to say no. bummer. Sounds like Ville and UCONN are both still in play for ACC.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Depaul and Marquette only non-fb to vote no.

7m MHver3 ‏@MHver3
So I was wrong earlier. BE not dead yet! Key word. Yet

8m MHver3 ‏@MHver3
St Johns and GT Introduced a vote to dissolve the BigEast today. They were 2 votes short of the 2/3 needed. 3 schools were no shows.


Highly doubt the validity of this. This guy is a WVU guy. How would he know, or even care at this point what the BE BB schools are going to do?? Then add this from the Georgetown board...



Writes Mark Blaudschun: "Don't expect that breakaway to come as long as Georgetown remains committed to the current state of Big East basketball and football. Georgetown is clearly the leader of that group and the Hoyas have told Aresco that they are still solid."

[dw3dw3dw3]

I agree, but the ACC would have quite a large chip lead at this point... seems like they are going to have to pull off multiple all-ins just to get even. If the Big-East survives this in anything more than a C-USA remake it will become a NY Times best selling book.




Actually, they can control the money right now as they are in the midst of a negotiation.

The ACC has a contract in place. For every team they bring in, everyone's slice of the pie gets smaller.

If someone like NBC really wants the Big East, work with them and say, "Ok, we will try to get Syracuse and Pitt back, what will you do if we accomplish that? Ok, then what if we can lure Boston College and Duke?" etc etc

The Big East is in an open negotiation, and can work with the bidders the same way that ESPN worked with the ACC to get Syracuse and Pitt.

Be proactive and play the game instead of sitting back and waiting for them to pick you apart. If it doesn't work, at least you tried to do something, as opposed to nothing.

[Phantom Warrior]

There is no way NBC, Fox, ABC, ESPN, anybody, negotiates with the present Big East. There are too many question marks, too many variables. Negotiations will wait until everything shakes out.

It is possible that GTown, Nova, and/or St. Johns is/are looking to join the ACC. That, by the way, is MU's worst case scenario as it undermines the likelihood, as well as the quality, of a potential hoops league as a viable option.

What I don't get is why Providence and Seton Hall would also vote to dissolve. They are not candidates for the ACC. My only thought is that these five Eastern schools have a plan involving other hoops schools from the A-10, especially those on the East Coast, and MU and DePaul may not be part of that concept. If I'm right, I can see why. DePaul brings little, if anything, to the table in terms of a quality basketball program. Chicago is a major market, but the Demons have little fan following.

I would be shocked if there have not been a whole lot of backroom discussions between the Hoyas, Wildcats, and even Red Storm powers that be with a number of possible outcomes on the table. And I have no doubt whatsoever that the Eastern basketball schools in the present Big East and the A-10 would shut out MU and DP in a heartbeat.

The bottom line is that no one has MU's back in all this. We have no advocates. That is sad, but it is also true. Having DP in the same leaky boat is no consolation at all. In fact, it makes everything even more depressing.

Call me paranoid if you want, but as the saying goes, it's not paranoia if someone is out to get you.

[IWB]

No idea if any of this is True:

This does not sound good: https://twitter.com/MHver3

sounds like we have no options at this point if we were the only BBALL to say no. bummer. Sounds like Ville and UCONN are both still in play for ACC.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3
Depaul and Marquette only non-fb to vote no.

7m MHver3 ‏@MHver3
So I was wrong earlier. BE not dead yet! Key word. Yet

8m MHver3 ‏@MHver3
St Johns and GT Introduced a vote to dissolve the BigEast today. They were 2 votes short of the 2/3 needed. 3 schools were no shows.

I can confirm that the info in the reported tweets are false, and no such vote took place.