View Full Version : ND to ACC Has Legs to It
ge1974
09-12-2012, 08:44 AM
Oh no.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8369070/sources-notre-dame-football-acc
Goose85
09-12-2012, 09:02 AM
They are not even going to wait until the TV deal is done? Seems very odd.
Mark Miller
09-12-2012, 09:05 AM
Another tough blow for the Big East. Notre Dame always had solid basketball teams and a great following in the league and at the Big East Tournament.
No way to spin this one.
Phantom Warrior
09-12-2012, 09:11 AM
Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GOMU1104
09-12-2012, 09:16 AM
ACC is also adding a $50 million exit fee. They are not messing around.
Goose85
09-12-2012, 09:16 AM
Being reported all over the place. I guess being tied to the ACC gets them a better bowl bid. I just don't get the timing of this one. Really seems odd that they would screw over the fellow Catholic schools like this.
No way to spin this one other than the ACC really is determined to eliminate the Big East, why else would they want 15 teams?
Look at their conference.....
Boston College (Big East defector)
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Maryland
Miami (Big East defector)
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Notre Dame (Big East defector)
Pittsburgh (Big East defector)
Syracuse (Big East defector)
Virginia
Virginia Tech (Big East defector)
Wake Forest
6 teams poached from the Big East. That is not a coincidence.
Adding the $50 million exit fee to prevent the Big 12 from taking FSU and Clemson. Now if the Big 12 wants to expand their only targets would be Cincy & Louisville or BYU & someone from out West.
If the Big 12 is set on going back to 12, it does not look good for the Big East.
TheSultan
09-12-2012, 09:21 AM
I just posted this on Scoop. The ACC has legitimate, football-related reasons to make this move:
"There is a big, football related reason to take ND. I am assuming that ND is going to have something written into its agreement, similar to the one with the BE, that ND gets access to certain bowls that the ACC plays in. This makes all of the ACC's bowl arrangements that much more valuable. Furthermore, getting ND playing ACC schools in football will bring more eyeballs to the set.
Also, remember that the ACC is in somewhat of a desperate need to strengthen its football product. To have ND associated with them, even not as a full member, is helpful with the changes to the BCS landscape. The ACC is clearly the fifth of the BCS conferences...and the Big East was significantly behind them. This helps them."
Goose85
09-12-2012, 09:22 AM
We have had a great rivalry and history with ND, but going forward I hope I don't see their name on our schedule. They have now joined the Judas wing of the conference.
TheSultan
09-12-2012, 09:22 AM
Adding the $50 million exit fee to prevent the Big 12 from taking FSU and Clemson. Now if the Big 12 wants to expand their only targets would be Cincy & Louisville or BYU & someone from out West.
If the Big 12 is set on going back to 12, it does not look good for the Big East.
I simply don't think UL or UC is valuable enough to the B12 to split the pie two additional ways for the sake of a championship game. Those revenues will never add up.
I agree, and I have broken out the numbers here before, but it keeps coming up. Maybe they want 12 because of their brand, maybe they want 12 because they promised the networks they would go back to 12. Either way, this is a huge kick in the nuts to the Big East.
TheSultan
09-12-2012, 09:25 AM
No way to spin this one other than the ACC really is determined to eliminate the Big East, why else would they want 15 teams?
Look at their conference.....
Boston College (Big East defector)
Clemson
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Maryland
Miami (Big East defector)
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Notre Dame (Big East defector)
Pittsburgh (Big East defector)
Syracuse (Big East defector)
Virginia
Virginia Tech (Big East defector)
Wake Forest
6 teams poached from the Big East. That is not a coincidence.
It's not a coincidence, but I think you are overstating their intent. Their primary intent isn't to "destroy the Big East." Their primary intent is to make themselves stronger through expansion....and where else are they going to get their teams from?
CaribouJim
09-12-2012, 09:33 AM
I would hardly call them a "non-football member" when they have to play 5 ACC teams a year though - they'll have to jettison some of their traditional Midwest rivals - I assume they won't stop playing USC. Seems like their football schedule will be much less sexy.
When does the BE as we know it totally implode and MU has to look at a B-Ball only conference while hopefully retaining the BE name, MSG etc.?
Hope we continue to play ND each year after they leave the BE. I hate football!!!!!!
Gato78
09-12-2012, 09:36 AM
This will be a big test for Larry Williams. People can say what they want about the value of Notre Dame to the BIG EAST but this is a huge blow. I hope Larry has been clued in to this for quite a long period of time since he is close to the ND administration. Time for us to band with Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and DePaul and figure this out. There is no soft sell here, it is a big threat to the existrence of the BIG EAST.
MUBasketball
09-12-2012, 09:37 AM
D-A-M-N. This really, really sucks. Always wanted to stay aligned with Notre Dame.
Now what? It's really getting to the point for me that I'm about ready to break away and form the non-football conference (and add a combination of Xavier, Dayton, Butler, Creighton, etc. etc.). Louisville and UConn are clearly elite hoops programs that I'd hate to break away from....but they are gone at their first opportunity. Isn't it worth breaking away and having a conference that will essentially be immune to any further expansion?
TrevorCandelino
09-12-2012, 09:39 AM
Larry Williams should convince ND to insist that the ACC takes Marquette on for basketball and Olympic sports. Helps ND's travel budget and brings the basketball to 16 teams. If he can do that, he will have earned his keep. One can always dream.
GOMU1104
09-12-2012, 09:41 AM
ACC may still look to grab another basketball only school to even their numbers out...Georgetown, St. Johns or Villanova look like options.
Goose85
09-12-2012, 09:42 AM
What hurts here is the possible bowl tie in for the Big East with ND as a member.
If I am Florida State / Clemson I really consider moving to the Big 12 now before the ACC gets everyone to sign off on upping the ante to $50 mil to leave the conference.
realchiliwarrior
09-12-2012, 09:43 AM
Larry Williams should convince ND to insist that the ACC takes Marquette on for basketball and Olympic sports. Helps ND's travel budget and brings the basketball to 16 teams. If he can do that, he will have earned his keep. One can always dream.
This is our best option, BUT, I think Georgetown would stand at the front of this line with ACC.
MUBasketball
09-12-2012, 09:46 AM
I'd love to know if this could have been avoided? Possibly not...but in my own mind I'll blame SMU and Houston since I've always been upset they are joining the league.
Had the Big East responded to losing Syracuse, Pittsburgh, and West Virginia with Central Florida, Temple, and Memphis only...I think that would have been a great response. But adding SMU and Houston into the mix really hurt the league perception. Those teams add nothing to the basketball side, and we're seeing that they don't really add much to football either. What a waste of membership those two are.
This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!
CaribouJim
09-12-2012, 09:53 AM
This will be a big test for Larry Williams. People can say what they want about the value of Notre Dame to the BIG EAST but this is a huge blow. I hope Larry has been clued in to this for quite a long period of time since he is close to the ND administration. Time for us to band with Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and DePaul and figure this out. There is no soft sell here, it is a big threat to the existrence of the BIG EAST.
Agreed - no more reacting after the fact - time to be on the offense and get all the the b-ball only schools on the same page and break away from the football schools before the inevitable happens - does anyone really think that that is not going to be end story - football guys are going to do their own thing. Just hope the ACC doesn't steal G-Town - have a feeling though that that will be the case. Those that are saying that the loss of ND is no big deal are nuts. Again, I hate football!!!
I blame Larry Williams.:p
Markedman
09-12-2012, 09:59 AM
Time to go get Xavier
TheSultan
09-12-2012, 10:04 AM
Another motivation for the ACC...they can seek additional compensation from ESPN. Dan Wetzel just tweeted:
"Source: Bringing in Notre Dame will allow ACC to ask for additional compensation in ESPN deal."
Goose85
09-12-2012, 10:04 AM
Interesting as the ACC just decided to up the exit fee to $50 mil. If ND ever decides to play football in a conference, it will cost a ton for it not to be the ACC.
I would think that if they add a hoops only school it would be Georgetown.
MUBasketball
09-12-2012, 10:04 AM
Agreed - no more reacting after the fact - time to be on the offense and get all the the b-ball only schools on the same page and break away from the football schools before the inevitable happens - does anyone really think that that is not going to be end story - football guys are going to do their own thing. Just hope the ACC doesn't steal G-Town - have a feeling though that that will be the case. Those that are saying that the loss of ND is no big deal are nuts. Again, I hate football!!!
Exactly...this thing is now officially held together with duct tape. If anybody tried to convince themselves otherwise before, they no longer can. Every football program in the league now wants out. Louisville has a lot to offer, and will surely be gone in the near future. Why stand idly by...time to be proactive! The A-10 is a non-football league. The top teams from that conference should merge up with the non-football Big East teams. That is without question the best option going forward.
Can only hope that Georgetown is included in this equation. What a massive blow it would be to severe ties with another excellent basketball program...that doesn't play football. Can you imagine? Ouch.
Drbchilds
09-12-2012, 10:05 AM
This will be a big test for Larry Williams. People can say what they want about the value of Notre Dame to the BIG EAST but this is a huge blow. I hope Larry has been clued in to this for quite a long period of time since he is close to the ND administration. Time for us to band with Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's and DePaul and figure this out. There is no soft sell here, it is a big threat to the existrence of the BIG EAST.
When I had dinner with Larry last February we spoke about this and he thought ND was going to join the ACC in all sports except football. I told him the Big 10 made so much more sense to me, but he said he was hearing ACC as they get to keep their Football independence....
He was right, unfortunately.......I hope we get to keep them on our schedule going forward. We have So much tradition and history with them
Goose85
09-12-2012, 10:05 AM
Sure the football schools may want out, but right now I don't see that any of them have a place to go.
Agree with several points in this thread - if ACC added one basketball only school, Georgetown and St. John's would be in line before MU, Villanova too.
I know Sultan will challenge me on this, but the timing of this sure seems calculated to be another blow to the Big East with their TV contract negotiation. Now the uncertainty of the conference is back and gives the networks more bargaining power. The Big East is once again a wounded duck.
How could the Big East let ND make this move now? The Big East is two months from a new TV deal. If their move was inevitable, fine - but spend 2 months negotiating a release deal and help the Big East out. Now what will the TV deal will be? Doing this now will be a big blow to that negotiation.
Gato78
09-12-2012, 10:12 AM
Interesting that ND has struck a huge blow for its vaunted tradition. Landscape changed, cannot blame them. However, their football schedule is now radically altered and their hoops traditional rivals will be gone. Apparently, tradition means nothing. It is all about the benjamins. Another question--has the BIG EAST signed the announced deal with MSG? Can the ACC come in and take it away? I cannot see the ACC as a Greensboro/Charlotte centered conference anymore.
GOMU1104
09-12-2012, 10:16 AM
Interesting that ND has struck a huge blow for its vaunted tradition. Landscape changed, cannot blame them. However, their football schedule is now radically altered and their hoops traditional rivals will be gone. Apparently, tradition means nothing. It is all about the benjamins. Another question--has the BIG EAST signed the announced deal with MSG? Can the ACC come in and take it away? I cannot see the ACC as a Greensboro/Charlotte centered conference anymore.
Money > Tradition
I think they are just fine leaving whatever traditional hoops rivals they had for playing Duke/UNC/Syracuse/Pitt
For many years they have played Michigan, Michigan State, Navy, Purdue, Stanford, USC.....something has to go.
Although you look at their schedule this year, and they pretty much already were playing that schedule as they have Miami, Pittsburgh, Boston College & Wake Forest, so it may not be that big of a change for them.
MayorBeluga
09-12-2012, 10:17 AM
Does the ACC go after St. Johns as the hoops school to get MSG? Ugh. This really sucks.
Yikes. I knew the Domer's deal is up for NBC but thought they were goign to stay there and bring the BE along with them while keeping independence. Timing is horrible, but I cannot believe the BE didn't know this. If not, and I am also suspect of ND on anything, but the Pope should excommunicate them. At this point, the BE has two franchises: one for football and one for Olympic sports. They should be governed separately with separate media deals. LW better be on his game here.
kneelb4zerg
09-12-2012, 10:20 AM
RT @DanWolken: Not sure this is particularly devastating for Big East...if it forces BYU's hand into joining. Notre Dame hoops? Really?
Goose85
09-12-2012, 10:21 AM
Will ND's move affect their future deal with NBC? Does that possible loss and some urgency to NBC to get the Big East for college football?
NBC for Big East football. ESPN for Big East basketball.
CaribouJim
09-12-2012, 10:21 AM
Where is Dave Gavitt when you need him??!! Big East has to retain the MSG and maybe our new President can persuade his Alma-Mater hang in there with their non-football Catholic friends. This really sucks is right.
MU_Iceman
09-12-2012, 10:22 AM
Yikes. I knew the Domer's deal is up for NBC but thought they were goign to stay there and bring the BE along with them while keeping independence. Timing is horrible, but I cannot believe the BE didn't know this. If not, and I am also suspect of ND on anything, but the Pope should excommunicate them. At this point, the BE has two franchises: one for football and one for Olympic sports. They should be governed separately with separate media deals. LW better be on his game here.
What game?? LW's only game is to get Buzz out of town. If MU goes to a wretched "basketball only" conference, he'll get his wish. MU will be back to mid major status, and LW can pay a Coach less. And people laughed when many(including myself), proclaimed that LW would have no problem bringing MU down to SLU's level. Mission accomplished.
How will the TV deal work?
5 ACC games, who gets them? Notre Dame and NBC or the ACC and ESPN?
MKE_GoldenEagleFan
09-12-2012, 10:25 AM
I have to assume if Larry knew about ND leaving months ago that the BE also knew about it. The real question is do they have a plan, and does Marquette have a plan. If we knew ahead of time I hope we were working on something to secure our future. Even adding BYU doesn't replace ND it still leaves us in a crappy place given any and all of the football programs would jump as soon as they get a chance. I am now firmly in the corner of starting a basketball only league.
TheSultan
09-12-2012, 10:27 AM
How will the TV deal work?
5 ACC games, who gets them? Notre Dame and NBC or the ACC and ESPN?
Assuming that it depends on who hosts....just like it is now. @ND will be on NBC....@ACC will be on ESPN/ACC.
Goose85
09-12-2012, 10:33 AM
Good point on the BE knowing this was likely to happen. I think the ACC is betting that at some point in the future ND will join for football. No coincidence that ND joining comes at the same time the ACC upped the exite fee to the $50 mil range. I wonder if ND knew of the increase when they decided to join.
Football is where the money is as we have seen. With that being said, would an add of BYU for football only make the Big East more valuable for a football deal than the Big East with ND as a non football playing member?
TheSultan
09-12-2012, 10:38 AM
Wetzel's column really lays out nicely the benefits of both sides. As usual, he is out front on this and understands this better than most.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--notre-dame-protects-treasure-football-schedule-in-move-to-acc.html
MKE_GoldenEagleFan
09-12-2012, 10:40 AM
My concern is the perception... Yes ND added little value to the BE via their football program, but the perception of a sinking ship isn't good. It's just another hurdle the BE needs to overcome in TV talks. Also I worry about the basketball side losing a little value too... We lost a lot of good teams, we needed to retain all we could. ND basketball still brings more viewers than Temple or Memphis.
CaribouJim
09-12-2012, 11:10 AM
Dave Gavitt Obit:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/854766-big-east-founder-providence-coach-dave-gavitt-will-be-missed
In 1979, Gavitt gathered a group of athletic directors to start the Big East Conference. At the time, college basketball had declined at Madison Square Garden with growth of the NCAA Tournament, dropping the NIT into second-class status.
The Big East helped create the current world of conference tournaments, bigger arenas and immense television deals.
Hope somehow they are able to resurrect those glory days after the dust settles on all this crap.
Markedman
09-12-2012, 11:28 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-09-12/notre-dame-acc-basketball-football-big-east
kneelb4zerg
09-12-2012, 11:29 AM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-09-12/notre-dame-acc-basketball-football-big-east
Decourcy isn't associated with ESPN, so he's not dancing on the BE's grave.
TheSultan
09-12-2012, 12:08 PM
According to Andy Katz, the ACC will not be adding a 16th member.
Andy KatzþESPNAndyKatz
Agree. RT mcmurphyespn: ACC will not go to 16 teams in hoops, sources tell espn. Notre Dame will be league's last addition.
Goose85
09-12-2012, 12:14 PM
I guess ESPN told them that there will be no exta money for anyone other than Notre Dame.
ge1974
09-12-2012, 12:15 PM
According to Outkick the Coverage, Texas would be THAT 16th ACC team and arrange a deal with the ACC like ND's for football.
http://outkickthecoverage.com/notre-dame-to-acc-for-five-games-what-now.php
CaribouJim
09-12-2012, 12:28 PM
According to Outkick the Coverage, Texas would be THAT 16th ACC team and arrange a deal with the ACC like ND's for football.
http://outkickthecoverage.com/notre-dame-to-acc-for-five-games-what-now.php
Really?? Now that sounds crazy. You had UT, A&M and Tech in same conference and all within a decent drive and tons of history and now they could be in 3 different conferences?? Insane.
Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"
09-12-2012, 12:49 PM
One point I'd make, Sultan, is that killing the Big East helps the ACC more than anything. It opens up markets that were previously closed to the ACC and makes them the only power conference on the Eastern Seaboard. From a recruiting standpoint, it will only help both the traditional powers and the more northern schools if BC and Maryland can recruit with the ACC brand name as the Big East name becomes meaningless or possibly even ceases to exist. Through Syracuse, Pitt, and BC they will have a presence in markets and states they couldn't previously touch, and if the Big East folded, would almost certainly seem to have the more significant presence in New York, New England, and Pennsylvania (obviously besides PSU) than the ex-Big East schools.
I get the "strengthening football" idea, but nothing will strengthen their conference in both major sports as not having another significant East Coast conference does.
kneelb4zerg
09-12-2012, 01:16 PM
Interesting take here
http://ajerseyguy.com/
Losing the Irish in basketball and the other non-revenue sports, will be merely a speed bump for the Big East, which must continue to make major adjustments to its structure. The Irish never really brought much to the Big East table in basketball.
CaribouJim
09-12-2012, 01:47 PM
Interesting take here
http://ajerseyguy.com/
Losing the Irish in basketball and the other non-revenue sports, will be merely a speed bump for the Big East, which must continue to make major adjustments to its structure. The Irish never really brought much to the Big East table in basketball.
I disagree big time with that statement - it may make us feel better to think so, but I don't believe it for a second.
kneelb4zerg
09-12-2012, 01:51 PM
I disagree big time with that statement - it may make us feel better to think so, but I don't believe it for a second.
http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/1591/lucrative-big-east-deal-possible-without-nd
Markedman
09-12-2012, 01:51 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/1591/lucrative-big-east-deal-possible-without-nd
CaribouJim
09-12-2012, 02:49 PM
Still not on board with that line of thinking. Whether we like it or not, ND adds credibility. The stability factor may be better as we all had a feeling they were waiting for the right opportunity to flee, but all things being equal would have liked to have them on board w/ us.
kneelb4zerg
09-12-2012, 02:52 PM
Still not on board with that line of thinking. Whether we like it or not, ND adds credibility. The stability factor may be better as we all had a feeling they were waiting for the right opportunity to flee, but all things being equal would have liked to have them on board w/ us.
I wish they were with us too, but I also don't think the sky is falling.
Goose85
09-12-2012, 02:58 PM
Notre Dame does have a presence in most, if not all olympic sports. Think of MU adding lacrosse. Now both Syracuse and ND have decided to go to the ACC, both with lacrosse programs. What will happen with Big East baseball, lacrosse, etc. Hopefully there are enough schools to compete in all sports.
Djgoldnboy
09-12-2012, 03:07 PM
Notre Dame does have a presence in most, if not all olympic sports. Think of MU adding lacrosse. Now both Syracuse and ND have decided to go to the ACC, both with lacrosse programs. What will happen with Big East baseball, lacrosse, etc. Hopefully there are enough schools to compete in all sports.
What about our Quidditch team??????
kneelb4zerg
09-12-2012, 03:21 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--notre-dame-s-move-to-acc-didn-t-make-losers-out-of-big-east--big-ten-and-byu.html;_ylt=AuFP7z989Om.iJ_0y4UiNZ0LcykA;_ylu=X3 oDMTFoZnA0Y2I3BG1pdANCbG9nIEluZGV4IGJ5IEF1dGhvcgRw b3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFCbG9nSW5kZXg-;_ylg=X3oDMTFrODdzYXZuBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANhdXRob3IEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3
Wetzel says this is good for the BE; shocking!
Goose85
09-12-2012, 03:33 PM
I do feel a little better after reading that article. Need to get a good tv deal, some bowl ties, and stabilize from there.
I hope after ND leaves no Big East teams schedules them non conference in hoops for a period of time.
Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"
09-12-2012, 03:57 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--notre-dame-s-move-to-acc-didn-t-make-losers-out-of-big-east--big-ten-and-byu.html;_ylt=AuFP7z989Om.iJ_0y4UiNZ0LcykA;_ylu=X3 oDMTFoZnA0Y2I3BG1pdANCbG9nIEluZGV4IGJ5IEF1dGhvcgRw b3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFCbG9nSW5kZXg-;_ylg=X3oDMTFrODdzYXZuBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRw c3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANhdXRob3IEcHQDc2VjdGlvbnM-;_ylv=3
Wetzel says this is good for the BE; shocking!
That's the most compelling positive article I've seen. I still am a skeptic that expansion. And raiding of the Big East is over. If the ACC could get ND to join in full, they'd be back sniffing immediately.
kneelb4zerg
09-12-2012, 04:22 PM
Zagoria *shrugs*:
http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/09/12/notre-dames-loss-not-huge-on-hoops-side/
And old-school Big East stalwarts like Georgetown, Villanova and St. John’s remain alongside newer powers like Marquette.
So, all in all, while we will miss Mike Brey in the press room, his team won’t be that huge of a loss.
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