Big 12 to expand? Yes says Greg Swaim

[IWB]

Greg Swaim is reporting that the Big 12 will be adding 2 more teams (http://www.gregswaim.com/2012/08/the-big-12-adding-two-for-2014/#.UED_jzwV828.facebook). Those under consideration are Florida State, Notre Dame, Clemson, Cincinnati, Louisville or BYU.

[Goose85]

I think the Big 12 has it made right now, only sharing the pot 10 ways. Very nice pile of money.

Right now if Texas is undefeated, they will get a national title chance. If they are undefeated and end up losing to Ok State in the championship game, nobody from the conference goes.

If they do expand I would think FSU would be a huge get. They, along with ND, would be one of the few schools that would likely bring enough revenue to ensure member schools don't end up getting less (by delivering the Florida market). ACC has a big buyout.

We need to get this tv contract train rolling so as to not lose Louisville to either the Big 12 or the ACC if the Big 12 takes on Florida State / Clemson.

[Markedman]

I don't think the TV contract will keep Louisville from moving. If they get a chance to move to the ACC or Big 12 they will do it. More stability and more presitige.

[Goose85]

Hopefully with a better tv deal the exit fee is increased.

[MUBasketball]

I don't think the TV contract will keep Louisville from moving. If they get a chance to move to the ACC or Big 12 they will do it. More stability and more presitige.

Correct, and there is a 0% chance of them not moving if they can. I don't care what the new Big East TV is worth. They want out, and they've made it pretty clear. Football now drives everything, and the Big 12 is head and shoulders above the Big East in pigskin. It's a really good hoops league also, so not like they are sacrificing hoops at the expense of football.

Lets hope they stay at 10. If not...is it officially over for the Big East? This hodgepodge experiment to keep things together won't be worth it anymore if any more leave.

[MU_Iceman]

Greg Swaim is terrible when it comes to this stuff. That's no offense to IWB for posting this, it's just I have followed all the conference expansion, and I honestly can't remember one instance where Swaim was right with anything he posted, tweeted, etc. And, if I remember correctly, he said this very same thing(the Big XII expanding), awhile back, with the very same teams as possibilities. Plus, it wasn't that long ago, that the BXII emphatically stated they were happy with 10 for the forseeable future. I still don't worry about Louisville going anywhere. they aren't the draw they think they are.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

If they expand it's bad for the BE even if they don't steal our schools. Everyone will be leeching off of the Big East until they have filled their conferences with who and what they want.

[MUBasketball]

If they expand it's bad for the BE even if they don't steal our schools. Everyone will be leeching off of the Big East until they have filled their conferences with who and what they want.

Good timing - an interview with Louisville AD Tom Juirch just posted online. Listed below are his comments on the Big East. Again...they aren't hiding it, they want out.

11. BOZICH: There is ongoing conversation among Louisville fans about the future, what conference is best for the program. What do you tell fans who are worried about the future?

JURICH: "I think right now what we have to do is the best that we can possibly do. That's all that we can control. I'm a big believer in that. Control what you can control. We can control what's going on at the University of Louisville.

"Obviously if I had a magic wand, things would be a lot different. I don't have that magic wand. On the national landscape, things have to change before we can do it. We can't go anywhere unless they invite us. The only way they can invite us is if we keep doing the right things. The thing that we have to do is be good at everything that we do."

http://www.wdrb.com/story/19430389/bozich-tom-jurich-answers-20-questions-on-the-new-u-of-l-athletic-season

[MUMac]

So, anyone feel comfortable with Larry Williams at the helm during this time? Reading Jurich, that is a stark contrast to me - not entirely fair, I admit, as Jurich has been around much longer. But that was the decision that the BOD made ...

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Any more departures from the BE will not be good from a perception standpoint. Right now the league needs to portray a sense of stability, without that it will make it really hard to get a good TV deal... Kind of wish we could just be in a good basketball league, this football crap is getting tiring.

[Phantom Warrior]

If the Big 12 reaches out and lands FSU, things will get very, very interesting in the ACC. The ACC will need to respond, but its options would be extremely limited.

The ACC wold NEVER take a Louisvile or a Cincy even if it were desperate. And it doesn't want UConn or Rutgers either.

And if Clemson would also leave - which I doubt - but if it die, the ACC could end up in no better shape than it was when it started this mess.

I almost hope the Big 12 does expand and takes both Clemson and FSU. It wasn't long ago that the Big 12 (now Big 10) was on life support with a seemingly inevitable demise. It wold provide a certain amount of karmic justice if the ACC lost two schools to the Big 12.

As for the Big East, IF - and that's a mighty big IF - it lost either Louisville or Cincy to the Big 12, I think that would be the end of the conference.

[TheSultan]

I think the best thing for the Big East is if the B12 takes FSU and Clemson. I bet at that point that they decide staying at 12 is just fine because dividing the pie a 13th and 14th way isn't going to pay off for them.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

You guys are more optimistic than I am, I think if the Big 12 goes after FSU and Clemson then the ACC will right away look at ND and Louisville, as we all have stated Louisville would jump right away, ND would be a bit harder to pull though. That being said the BE wouldn't be done as now that they have added all these other schools they would be stuck. While I understand that we had to add those schools to give us any chance, it also means that if everything falls apart we are basically stuck in CUSA v2.0

[MUBasketball]

I think the best thing for the Big East is if the B12 takes FSU and Clemson. I bet at that point that they decide staying at 12 is just fine because dividing the pie a 13th and 14th way isn't going to pay off for them.

I could be wrong, but I think the Big East is screwed if any conference decides to expand. If the Big 12 took FSU and Clemson, then the ACC would just further raid the Big East (Phantom, why do you say they wouldn't take Louisville & Cincinnati?).

[TheSultan]

The question I have is, why would they raid the BE if they are already at 12? There is no motivation to go to 14, which is why I thought their move to add Pitt and Syracuse was a head scratcher.

[warriorfan4life]

The question I have is, why would they raid the BE if they are already at 12? There is no motivation to go to 14, which is why I thought their move to add Pitt and Syracuse was a head scratcher.

I think that move was in part cautionary to protect themselves against the potential loss of Clemson/FSU and last year the NC State-SEC innuendo.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

The question I have is, why would they raid the BE if they are already at 12? There is no motivation to go to 14, which is why I thought their move to add Pitt and Syracuse was a head scratcher.

I think that move was specifically to destroy the Big East. Many at the time thought the Big XII would follow that lead and grab for WVU, Louisville, and Cincy. And everyone wants ND still, I believe the ACC was in hopes the Irish would follow to their league. They didn't expect our league to survive, and probably thought at best we'd be a watered-down basketball-only, making the ACC the dominant East Coast conference.

[Phantom Warrior]

Both Cincy and Louisville have far less than stellar reps in terms of academics; even US News and World Reports has both of them far down on their rankings, in what it refers to as its "Third Tier."

Look at the rankings for the present and incoming schools:

Duke - 10
Virginia - 24
Wake Forest - 28
B.C. - 34
G Tech - 35
Miami - 50
Maryland - 53
Pitt - 56
Syracuse - 58
Clemson - 61
V Tech - 71
N. C. State - 88
FSU - 102

The third tier starts at #134.

The presidents of ACC schools do not want any third tier institutions polluting the academic gene pool of their storied conference. They would be more likely to consider UConn and Rutgers, but neither was invited despite their begging to be offered.

Cinci and Louisville might be good fits for the Big 12, but never for the ACC.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I wish I could believe that academics will play a big role, sadly if it makes dollars for them I think they will do it. Academics have been largely ignored in all of this, this is about money.

[TheSultan]

I think that move was in part cautionary to protect themselves against the potential loss of Clemson/FSU and last year the NC State-SEC innuendo.

Yeah, I know why they wanted to do it...but that didn't really work out too well for them. I think they would have learned that lesson.

And no, I don't think it was to kill Big East basketball. I have disagreed with brew from this from the beginning. That is looking at it from a basketball-bias...but that has never been mentioned anywhere but message boards.

[IWB]

And no, I don't think it was to kill Big East basketball. I have disagreed with brew from this from the beginning. That is looking at it from a basketball-bias...but that has never been mentioned anywhere but message boards.

Where else would you expect to read it, on ESPN? Hell, the AD from BC admitted it.

[TheSultan]

Where else would you expect to read it, on ESPN? Hell, the AD from BC admitted it.


You mean the AD that said this???

“It had nothing to do with basketball,’’ said Boston College athletic director Gene DeFilippo. “It was football money which drove expansion. It was football money and securing our future.’ “We wanted new playmates and we wanted Eastern playmates. When the Big 12 inquired about Pittsburgh, we asked, ‘Why let them come into our area?’ ’’

[BLT]

I agree with Sultan. It is well known that Swarbrick saved the B12 and the BE. The ACC and ESPN misplayed their cards as WVU was the key to get the B12 to fulfill their media contract, otherwise the two conferences would have had to merge with OU moving to the PAC if the ACC took WVU. And don't be naive to think the Jesuits were not working Leahy at BC to sit on UCONN. Mark Miller reported the merger talk back then.

If the BE signs a big media contract, the ACC might implode with that backloaded media deal. FSU and Clemson want out in flash. Notre Dame wants an East and West Coast presence. They are calling the shots, and they have the cards in their hands with their NBC renewal. It is good that MU is loaded with NDers.

[IWB]

You mean the AD that said this???

“It had nothing to do with basketball,’’ said Boston College athletic director Gene DeFilippo. “It was football money which drove expansion. It was football money and securing our future.’ “We wanted new playmates and we wanted Eastern playmates. When the Big 12 inquired about Pittsburgh, we asked, ‘Why let them come into our area?’ ’’

Yes - that is what he said back peddling, the day after claiming he misspoke when he said, "ESPN told us what to do, even told us what schools to target."

[TheSultan]

Jim, the quote that I pulled is from the same article where he mentioned working with ESPN on expansion.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2011/10/09/power-move-acc/eoEsrFHtvEBZD6Y59nFxGM/story.html

The concept of basketball superiority is mentioned, but it isn't backed up by a single quote...or any piece of evidence. The BC AD says a lot of things, but adamantly denies it was about basketball. Why would he lie about that?

[IWB]

He didn't lie - he originally said what really happened then was forced to backpedal. DeFillipo said exactly what happened then had to back track, is that not obvious?

His comments will likely be the key if and when the Big East ever decides to take legal action.

[TheSultan]

I think we are arguing past one another at this point. My point is that it was primarily, if not solely a football related move. Your point is that ESPN helped them. I think both are likely true.

[MUBasketball]

I think we are arguing past one another at this point. My point is that it was primarily, if not solely a football related move. Your point is that ESPN helped them. I think both are likely true.

I'm baffled that you think the ACC added Syracuse and Pittsburgh for football. What? Syracuse is awful at football...meanwhile, they are one of the elite programs in college hoops. I think Pitt has a much better chance than Syracuse of being a decent football program, but again, their hoops program is much stronger.

It was said at the time of these moves that a high profile hoops coach in the ACC (obviously either Roy or Coach K) was pushing for this. Do you honestly think Carolina or Duke was very happy not being in the premier conference in college basketball? They want that top spot, meanwhile knocking down the Big East from that position.

What did these moves do for football? Nothing but water the product down.

[TheSultan]

I'm baffled that you think the ACC added Syracuse and Pittsburgh for football. What? Syracuse is awful at football...meanwhile, they are one of the elite programs in college hoops. I think Pitt has a much better chance than Syracuse of being a decent football program, but again, their hoops program is much stronger.

It was said at the time of these moves that a high profile hoops coach in the ACC (obviously either Roy or Coach K) was pushing for this. Do you honestly think Carolina or Duke was very happy not being in the premier conference in college basketball? They want that top spot, meanwhile knocking down the Big East from that position.

What did these moves do for football? Nothing but water the product down.


Because that's not why conferences add schools. They add schools to increase their exposure to television markets and enhance their television contracts. And those contracts are 85% (BC's AD quoted this percentage) based on football because football drives the numbers...basketball doesn't. Same reason why the P10 added Utah and Colorado...and the SEC added A&M and Missouri.

As as for Duke and UNC? They may not want to be in a second tier basketball conference. But who cares? They are 2 of 12 votes and hold less and less power than they have historically. They crossed that bridge when they invited Va Tech and Miami to join the conference.

[IWB]

The ACC wanted to eliminate the Big East. I think that is why they did it and ESPN helped them drive that entire move.