ESPN's 50 in 50... 35-50

[IWB]

Ok, if you haven't seen it, ESPN is rolling out their 50 in 50 rankings. The 50 best teams over the last fifty years. They break down their ranks by decade, list the top 5 players of all time etc. Here is their point system. (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62654/introducing-the-50-in-50-series)Not bad, gives points for each step of tourney, all Americans etc. Only thing I have a problem with is awarding 2 points for players taken in the first 10 of the NBA draft. Why? This is college, not the draft.

This is pretty cool, so here is the list, will update as they do - thoughts? Personally I am shocked Weber is so high, BC & St. John's are so low. will be interesting to see where MU ends up.

1 - North Carolina (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63244/50-in-50-rankings-no-1-north-carolina)
2 - UCLA (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63239/50-in-50-rankings-no-2-ucla)
3 - Kentucky (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63220/50-in-50-rankings-no-3-kentucky)
4 - Duke (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63214/50-in-50-rankings-no-4-duke)
5 - Kansas (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63206/50-in-50-rankings-no-5-kansas)
6 - Louisville (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63196/50-in-50-rankings-no-6-louisville)
7 - Indiana (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63185/50-in-50-rankings-no-8-syracuse)
8 - Syracuse (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63185/50-in-50-rankings-no-8-syracuse)
9 - Connecticut (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63173/50-in-50-rankings-no-9-connecticut)
10 - Arizona (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63168/50-in-50-rankings-no-10-arizona)
11 - Michigan State (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63033/50-in-50-series-no-11-michigan-state)
12 - Georgetown (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63028/50-in-50-series-no-12-georgetown)
13 - Michigan (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63022/50-in-50-series-no-13-michigan)
14 - UNLV (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63015/50-in-50-series-no-14-unlv)
15 - Ohio State (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63012/50-in-50-series-no-15-ohio-state)
16 - Villanova (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/63002/50-in-50-series-no-16-villanova)
17 - Marquette (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62996/50-in-50-series-no-17-marquette)
18 - Temple (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62993/50-in-50-series-no-18-temple)
19 - Memphis (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62987/50-in-50-series-no-19-memphis)
20 - t Purdue (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62981/50-in-50-series-no-20-purdue-tie)
20 - t Utah (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62977/50-in-50-series-no-20-utah-tie)
22 - t Princeton (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62862/50-in-50-rankings-t-no-22-princeton)
22 - t Pennsylvania (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62865/50-in-50-rankings-pennsylvania)
24 - Cincinnati (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62860/50-in-50-rankings-no-24-cincinnati)
25 - Arkansas (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62858/50-in-50-rankings-no-25-arkansas)
26 - Texas (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62856/50-in-50-rankings-no-26-texas)
27 - Maryland (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62854/50-in-50-rankings-no-27-maryland)
28 - Murray State (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62850/50-in-50-rankings-no-28-murray-state)
29 - Notre Dame (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62842/50-in-50-rankings-no-29-notre-dame)
30 - Western Kentucky (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62836/50-in-50-rankings-no-30-western-kentucky)
31 - t Gonzaga (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62829/50-in-50-rankings-no-31-gonzaga-tie)
31 - t Oklahoma (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62825/50-in-50-rankings-no-31-oklahoma-tie)
33 - Illinois (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62812/50-in-50-rankings-no-33-illinois)
34 - Xavier (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62809/50-in-50-rankings-no-34-xavier)
35 - Houston (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62795/50-in-50-rankings-no-35-houston)
36 - BYU (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62552/50-in-50-rankings-no-36-brigham-young)
37 - Missouri (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62568/50-in-50-rankings-no-37-missouri)
38 - Kansas State (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62580/50-in-50-rankings-no-38-kansas-state)
39 - Weber State (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62583/50-in-50-rankings-no-39-weber-state)
40 - t Florida (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62586/50-in-50-rankings-no-40-florida-tie)
40 - t St. John's (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62589/50-in-50-rankings-no-40-st-johns-tie)
40 - t St. Joe's (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62592/50-in-50-rankings-no-40-saint-josephs-tie)
43 - NC State (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62597/50-in-50-rankings-no-43-nc-state)
44 - Davidson (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62602/50-in-50-rankings-no-44-davidson)
45 - DePaul (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62608/50-in-50-rankings-no-45-depaul)
46 - UTEP (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62612/50-in-50-rankings-no-46-utep)
47 - Alabama (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62616/50-in-50-rankings-no-47-alabama)
48 - LSU (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62624/50-in-50-rankings-no-48-lsu)
49 - San Francisco (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62633/50-in-50-rankings-no-49-san-francisco)
50 - Boston College (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62578/50-in-50-rankings-no-50-boston-college)

[ge1974]

Let me a take a stab at the final 25:
1) UCLA
2) Kentucky
3) North Carolina
4) Duke
5) Kansas
6) Indiana
7) Louisville
8) Michigan State
9) Arizona
10) UCONN
11) Ohio State
12) Georgetown
13) Syracuse
14) Marquette
15) Villanova
16) Michigan
17) Florida
18) Memphis
19) UNLV
20) Temple
21) Cincinnati
22) Penn
23) OK State
24) Iowa

[IWB]

Pennsylvania at #22?? GE you were spot on.

[ge1974]

Yes. Penn won a lot of IVY titles, were often ranked in the TOP 25 and mad the Final Four 1979. Like Marquette, they also had an undefeated regular season in 1970-71 led by Corky Calhoun. I wonder whether or not Princeton makes it. They had a Final Four team in 1965 with Bill Bradley.

[CaribouJim]

I'm surprised that Penn is so high and that Cinci so low, but Cinci had their Oscar run before '62 correct? Same with Ohio State I think. I agree with ge1974 that MU will be in that neighborhood. If you could somehow vaporize the Dukiet (who was one of my brothers' RA at BC) era, MU would be sitting even more impressively.

I think Michigan will be a little higher as well.

[IWB]

I believe Oscar's last year was the year before this started.

[CaribouJim]

Yes. Penn won a lot of IVY titles, were often ranked in the TOP 25 and mad the Final Four 1979. Like Marquette, they also had an undefeated regular season in 1970-71 led by Corky Calhoun. I wonder whether or not Princeton makes it. They had a Final Four team in 1965 with Bill Bradley.

Still ain't buying Penn although I do remember Corky Calhoun very well and that '79 team too. Did they have a consolation game that year or was '78 the last year for that? It would have been against DePaul.

[kneelb4zerg]

Where's Wisconsin? Oh right, this is based on 50 years, not 10.

[IWB]

Here is an odd one in the Princeton file.....

Fun Fact: In the common draft era (since 1965), Princeton has as many top-10 picks (two) as Marquette.

Why is that a fun fact? Why compare Princeton to MU?

[CaribouJim]

Here is an odd one in the Princeton file.....

Fun Fact: In the common draft era (since 1965), Princeton has as many top-10 picks (two) as Marquette.

Why is that a fun fact? Why compare Princeton to MU?


Well the two top 10 picks are Butch as 10th in '78 and DWade as 6th in '03.

As far as your quiz, Princeton offered me a full academic scholarship and MU an athletic scholarship, but I turned both down??

I'm going to say we have the exact # of wins in those 50 years?

[IWB]

For those that know about the era, would Chones have been an NBA top 10 pick had he not gone to the ABA?

[ge1974]

Just saw the latest update with PENN and Princeton tied for #22 and Cincy #24. I was just lucky on the PENN pick and realized my omission of Princeton too late. I had forgotten another Final Four of the Tigers in 1967.

I believe the rankings begins with 1962 so Cincy would not get credit for the "Big O". They were penalized for NCAA sanctions. I now wonder whether or not Memphis will even make it because they have had a lot of NCAA appearances vacated in the past. Michigan will surely get penalized heavily, too.

[CaribouJim]

For those that know about the era, would Chones have been an NBA top 10 pick had he not gone to the ABA?

Absolutely - no question.

[ge1974]

Yes, Jim Chones would have been a Top 10 pick that year had he waited and gone hardship. No question about it.

[Nukem2]

Yes, Jim Chones would have been a Top 10 pick that year had he waited and gone hardship. No question about it.Definitely.

[ge1974]

Here is the scoring system. A couple of flaws right off the top of my head: NIT apperances should get more points and an NIT Final Four and Championships should get more points up until the field was expanded to 64 years. I also think some points should be awarded for attendance. It reflects the strenghth and the following of the program. Also, does MU get a point for their 1970 berth when they were invited to the NCAA but declined and went to the NIT?

SCORING SYSTEM
Conference title - 5 points
For best win percentage in regular season regardless of division. Independents that finished ahead of two major conference champions in final AP poll received credit.
Conference tournament title - 3 points
Independents that finished ahead of two major-conference champions in final AP poll received credit.
Win percentage
80 percent and above = 4 points, 60-79 percent = 2 points, 35.1-49.9 percent = minus-2 points, less than 35 percent = minus-4 points.
No. 1 seed - 2 points
Started in 1979.
NCAA tournament berth - 1 point

NCAA 1st-rd. win as 12-16-seed - 1 point
Started in 1979 for 12-seeds only, 1985 for seeds 12-16.
Losing in second round - 3 points
Started in 1985, every team had to win a game to advance to Round of 32.
Sweet 16 loss - 5 pts
Started in 1975, every team had to win at least once to advance to Sweet 16.
Elite Eight loss - 10 pts

National semifinal loss - 15 points

Title game loss - 20 points

National title - 25 points

NIT title - 1 point

First-team All-American - 3 points

Second-team All-American - 2 points

Player taken in NBA's top 10 - 2 points
Started in 1966, common draft.
Vacated season - minus-2 points
Any season where wins were vacated.
Sanctions
TV ban = minus-1 point, postseason ban = minus-2 points, probation = minus-1 point, loss of financial aid = minus-1 point, recruiting violation = minus-1 point, show-cause action
= minus 2 points

[IWB]

Again, I have a problem with the top 10 draft pick. Has nothing to do with College basketball, and rewards teams for 1-and-dones. Just boosts the programs they want to boost.

[ge1974]

IWB, I agree with your comments. There is no perfect system but this is as good as I have seen.

[Goose85]

Agree with GE on the NIT needing more credit pre expansion of the NCAA tourney. Back in the day it was possible to have the #1 team in the country not make the NCAA tourney, as you had to win your conference tournament to get a NCAA bid.

Not sure if they defined which All American team was used.

Overall a pretty good system, and like these type things, fun to discuss.

[TheSultan]

Knowing ESPN, they developed some kind of scoring system and tweaked it to get the results they wanted. I doubt this was a well thought out exercise.

[IWB]

Just to clarify, I like the whole system but the draft pick.

[Bocephys]

Knowing ESPN, they developed some kind of scoring system and tweaked it to get the results they wanted. I doubt this was a well thought out exercise.

Wouldn't that make it very well thought out?

[IWB]

GE - Now that all of the votes are in, I must say, you did an pretty damn good job on your list!

[ge1974]

Thanks, although many other contributors on this message board would have done as well or better as this place is chock-full-of-college basketball knowledgable fans. I am little surprised that North Carolina passed UCLA for #1 and that UNLV ranked ahead of us. I guess they won more conference titles and had more all-americans than I estimated. Our #17 ESPN ranking is great testimony to our past players, coaches (especially one in particular), fans, students, alumni and school adminstration and hopefully, it helps with recruiting.

MU did very well and as I posted elsewhere, I hope ESPN does this again in 2017 because our next 5 years promises to be so much better result-wise than our 1963-67 record.

How about all the teams in the Big East in the Top 20 and 25? MU, Georgetown, Villanova, Uconn, Memphis, Temple and Louisville being in top 20 proves that Big East basketball has not suffered as much as some people think with the defections of Syracuse and PITT.

PITT did not even make the Top 50 but Cincy (Top 25), Houston, ND, DePaul and St.Johns did along with the other schools mentioned above. That's 12 Big East schools(starting play next season). The ACC only has five (Duke, UNC, NC State, Maryland and Boston College, Syracuse makes #6 next year) and the Big Ten has six (Ohio State, MSU, U of M, Illinois, Indiana and Purdue) in the Top 50.

It'd be nice if the Big East Conference would use these rankings as a negotiation tool for TV rights and advertising. Now, that could really come back and bite ESPN in the ass!:o

[CaribouJim]

Another thing that I found in these rankings - look at some of the ESPN's proposed starting 5's - Duke in particular - only Grant Hill made any real impact in the NBA and I thought Hill could have been one of the all-time greats but for that chronic foot injury. MU's stacks up pretty nicely against a lot of teams ranked higher. I noticed that 4 of the 5 starters for MU were on NBA championship teams - Butch and Chones on the '80 Lakers, Mo on the Blazers '77 and DWade twice.