Giannis

[Markedman]

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/

[DCwarrior]

Wouldn't be surprised if the Bucks are forced to trade him. If he won't sign an extension in the off-season, they'll have no choice but to trade him.

The Bucks screwed up last offseason. They let the wrong guard leave. They should have re-signed Brogdon and let Bledsoe leave or work out a sign-and-trade deal. Bledsoe can't shoot and you can't have two non-shooters (Giannis being the other) on the court at the same time. It can work in the regular season but not in playoffs when teams really clamp down defensively. Brogdon is simply a much better overall player and he doesn't cost much more than Bledsoe.

[Markedman]

By all accounts they aren't trading him.

Brogdon didn't want to be here....didn't like Milwaukee.

[MUfan12]

I guess I'm glad he's not asking out of MKE now. But if this plays out with them not winning a title next year, and Giannis leaving as a FA, they're in far worse shape to rebuild.

I understand how good GA is, but man, watching LeBron last night... the gap is still pretty big. Part of it is shooting ability, but LeBron's basketball IQ is off the charts good.

[TheSultan]

You may also want to look at the stats before you call Brogdan for sure the better overall player. For instance, he was a worse shooter, both from 3 point land and EFG%, than Bledsoe was this year. I would call Brogdan the better ball handler, and yeah I think Bledsoe isn't as good as the PG needs to be, but "a much better overall player" isn't really accurate.

In retrospect, a guy like Terry Rozier would have been a better choice. (And I know that was part of a sign and trade and may never have been possible.) Better overall shooter than both of them.

The biggest problem this team has is the inability to put the ball on the ground and get a basket. I think one of the TNT guys said this last evening, but someone like Lou Williams would be perfect on this team as a change up. Instead they have a bunch of spot shooters.

[AbovetheRim]

I guess I'm glad he's not asking out of MKE now. But if this plays out with them not winning a title next year, and Giannis leaving as a FA, they're in far worse shape to rebuild.

I understand how good GA is, but man, watching LeBron last night... the gap is still pretty big. Part of it is shooting ability, but LeBron's basketball IQ is off the charts good.

Completely disagree with this given the NBA is a superstar driven league. You don't typically get one of those picking outside the top 5 or so. It would need to be a one step back to take a few forward approach, IMO. Maybe a complete teardown if he were to leave.

[IWB]

I understand how good GA is, but man, watching LeBron last night... the gap is still pretty big. Part of it is shooting ability, but LeBron's basketball IQ is off the charts good.

Regarding the basketball IQ...

Lebron is 35 years old and has been in the league for 17 years.

Giannis is 25 years old and has been in the league for 7 years.

Pretty hard to compare basketball IQ head to head when one has 10 more years of experience, Giannis is still pretty much a kid learning the game.

[TheSultan]

A potentially two time league MVP who's 25? Sign him to the super max and hope it works out.

Not signing him, or if he leaves for elsewhere, and you become Oklahoma City. Good enough to make the playoffs but not really do any damage while you are there.

[Goose85]

Brogdan wanted out. For the same amount of money the Pacers paid Brogdon, the Bucks resigned Brook Lopez and Hill, and now have a first round pick in the draft this year. For a guy that wanted out, we did pretty well.

[Markedman]

You may also want to look at the stats before you call Brogdan for sure the better overall player. For instance, he was a worse shooter, both from 3 point land and EFG%, than Bledsoe was this year. I would call Brogdan the better ball handler, and yeah I think Bledsoe isn't as good as the PG needs to be, but "a much better overall player" isn't really accurate.

In retrospect, a guy like Terry Rozier would have been a better choice. (And I know that was part of a sign and trade and may never have been possible.) Better overall shooter than both of them.

The biggest problem this team has is the inability to put the ball on the ground and get a basket. I think one of the TNT guys said this last evening, but someone like Lou Williams would be perfect on this team as a change up. Instead they have a bunch of spot shooters.

Bledsoe also the better defender.....(2nd team all defense).

The guys the who were supposed to make shots for the Bucks didn't make them........Korver, Connaughton, Hill....etc.

[2012Warrior]

Completely disagree with this given the NBA is a superstar driven league. You don't typically get one of those picking outside the top 5 or so. It would need to be a one step back to take a few forward approach, IMO. Maybe a complete teardown if he were to leave.

That’s fine, but you lose out on a ton of assets if Giannis walks. You could speed up the rebuild by trading Giannis for a ton of picks or young talent.

The worst thing would be Giannis not signing an extension and playing out next year not knowing if he will be back. Based on Covid, I could see it being a shorter deal due to the salary cap impact. However, Giannis has left money on the table before with his last contract.

All of his comments point to him coming back, but Buzz also said he’d be here for as long as we wanted him.

[MU Viking]

A potentially two time league MVP who's 25? Sign him to the super max and hope it works out.

Not signing him, or if he leaves for elsewhere, and you become Oklahoma City. Good enough to make the playoffs but not really do any damage while you are there.

OKC is a terrible analogy. You literally couldn't have picked a worse one. The Thunder overachieved big time this year (weren't supposed to make the playoffs; getting to Game 7 against the Rockets was gravy and they almost pulled off a series win) and the hauls they got for the trades for George, Westbrook and Grant are off the charts. Pieces like Chris Paul, Danilo Gallinari and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, the first two of which will be moved before their contracts expire, plus the following draft situation the next few years...

2020:
* Nuggets’ first rounder (top 10 protected)
* Own first rounder (1-20 protected)
* Own second rounder (top 55 protected)

2021:
* Own first rounder
* Heat's first rounder (unprotected)
* Own second rounder

2022:
* Own first rounder
* Clippers' first rounder (unprotected)
* Own second rounder

2023:
* The higher first rounder between Thunder and Clippers
* Heat's first rounder (lottery protected)
* Own second rounder (may go to 76ers)

2024:
* Own first rounder
* Clippers' first rounder (unprotected)
* Grizzlies' second rounder
* Own second rounder

2025:
* The better first rounder between Thunder and Clippers
* Own second rounder

2026:
* Own first rounder
* Clippers first rounder
* Own second rounder


The Thunder is actually in excellent shape looking to the future even after Durant left because of the moves made the last couple years.

[Goose85]

OKC is a terrible analogy. You literally couldn't have picked a worse one. The Thunder overachieved big time this year (weren't supposed to make the playoffs; getting to Game 7 against the Rockets was gravy and they almost pulled off a series win) and the hauls they got for the trades for George, Westbrook and Grant are off the charts. Pieces like Chris Paul, Danilo Gallinari and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, the first two of which will be moved before their contracts expire, plus the following draft situation the next few years...

2020:
* Nuggets’ first rounder (top 10 protected)
* Own first rounder (1-20 protected)
* Own second rounder (top 55 protected)

2021:
* Own first rounder
* Heat's first rounder (unprotected)
* Own second rounder

2022:
* Own first rounder
* Clippers' first rounder (unprotected)
* Own second rounder

2023:
* The higher first rounder between Thunder and Clippers
* Heat's first rounder (lottery protected)
* Own second rounder (may go to 76ers)

2024:
* Own first rounder
* Clippers' first rounder (unprotected)
* Grizzlies' second rounder
* Own second rounder

2025:
* The better first rounder between Thunder and Clippers
* Own second rounder

2026:
* Own first rounder
* Clippers first rounder
* Own second rounder


The Thunder is actually in excellent shape looking to the future even after Durant left because of the moves made the last couple years.

13 first round picks in 7 years. If they draft decently they should be in pretty good shape. Just need to move Paul's contract, but I'm not sure that is possible.

[TheSultan]

OKC is a terrible analogy. You literally couldn't have picked a worse one. The Thunder overachieved big time this year (weren't supposed to make the playoffs; getting to Game 7 against the Rockets was gravy and they almost pulled off a series win) and the hauls they got for the trades for George, Westbrook and Grant are off the charts. Pieces like Chris Paul, Danilo Gallinari and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, the first two of which will be moved before their contracts expire, plus the following draft situation the next few years...

2020:
* Nuggets’ first rounder (top 10 protected)
* Own first rounder (1-20 protected)
* Own second rounder (top 55 protected)

2021:
* Own first rounder
* Heat's first rounder (unprotected)
* Own second rounder

2022:
* Own first rounder
* Clippers' first rounder (unprotected)
* Own second rounder

2023:
* The higher first rounder between Thunder and Clippers
* Heat's first rounder (lottery protected)
* Own second rounder (may go to 76ers)

2024:
* Own first rounder
* Clippers' first rounder (unprotected)
* Grizzlies' second rounder
* Own second rounder

2025:
* The better first rounder between Thunder and Clippers
* Own second rounder

2026:
* Own first rounder
* Clippers first rounder
* Own second rounder


The Thunder is actually in excellent shape looking to the future even after Durant left because of the moves made the last couple years.


First, I meant more about where they were seeded this year and how they really had no shot.

Second, I absolutely bow to your knowledge of the Thunder and their future set up. I had very limited knowledge of this.

Third, I am still not convinced this is the better alternative to building a contender than keeping the MVP you already have on your roster. (I know you aren't saying that.) Hoarding draft picks sometimes works, oftentimes doesn't.

[Goose85]

First, I meant more about where they were seeded this year and how they really had no shot.

Second, I absolutely bow to your knowledge of the Thunder and their future set up. I had very limited knowledge of this.

Third, I am still not convinced this is the better alternative to building a contender than keeping the MVP you already have on your roster. (I know you aren't saying that.) Hoarding draft picks sometimes works, oftentimes doesn't.

I get trying to set up a team for the future, we've been trying to do that since 1974.
Hopefully we sign Giannis to another 5 years. Then, if he has interest in moving after that, go for the big haul of draft picks.

[MU Viking]

So which is it, Sultan? The Thunder traded superstars George and Westbrook after the middling results you complain about... overachieve big time....and get the same results plus a bunch of draft picks? Before that, they took a gamble with Durant, went to game 7 of the WCF, and he walked which forced them into trading for Paul George to try to get another superstar.

As you say, I never said trade Giannis. I think you do everything you can to resign him, particularly at his age. But I'd rather the Bucks not let him walk if it appears there's a good chance he'd head in that direction. I've lived that here when KD walked out on OKC, and it is a gigantic gut punch to fans. I've also lived through a beloved former MVP being traded (Westbrook, beloved in OKC, unlike KD) to a hated rival and somehow, that is a lot easier for people to stomach, knowing the future is bright.

[TheSultan]

So which is it, Sultan? The Thunder traded superstars George and Westbrook after the middling results you complain about... overachieve big time....and get the same results plus a bunch of draft picks? Before that, they took a gamble with Durant, went to game 7 of the WCF, and he walked which forced them into trading for Paul George to try to get another superstar.

As you say, I never said trade Giannis. I think you do everything you can to resign him, particularly at his age. But I'd rather the Bucks not let him walk if it appears there's a good chance he'd head in that direction. I've lived that here when KD walked out on OKC, and it is a gigantic gut punch to fans. I've also lived through a beloved former MVP being traded (Westbrook, beloved in OKC, unlike KD) to a hated rival and somehow, that is a lot easier for people to stomach, knowing the future is bright.

I’m in complete agreement with you that they should trade him if he doesn’t sign. I have not disputed anything you have said.

[MU Viking]

I’m in complete agreement with you that they should trade him if he doesn’t sign. I have not disputed anything you have said.

So trade him... but not for draft picks (your comment about hoarding draft picks)? What if he doesn't sign the supermax? OF COURSE you try to sign him (is anyone arguing the opposite?), but that doesn't make it magically happen.

The Bucks would then have to make a decision of risking it and going for it all (similar to KD) or getting the best possible deal in a trade before the contract is up (Westbrook, George). So, unwittingly, with the bad Thunder analogy, you've given us the blueprints to what could happen if Giannis doesn't resign.

[MU Viking]

13 first round picks in 7 years. If they draft decently they should be in pretty good shape. Just need to move Paul's contract, but I'm not sure that is possible.

Paul's stock hasn't been higher in several years. He scrapped the perceived bad attitude when he left Houston and was a legit All-Star this year. It's a big contract, but I won't put it past Sam Presti to find a good trade.

[TheSultan]

So trade him... but not for draft picks (your comment about hoarding draft picks)? What if he doesn't sign the supermax? OF COURSE you try to sign him (is anyone arguing the opposite?), but that doesn't make it magically happen.

The Bucks would then have to make a decision of risking it and going for it all (similar to KD) or getting the best possible deal in a trade before the contract is up (Westbrook, George). So, unwittingly, with the bad Thunder analogy, you've given us the blueprints to what could happen if Giannis doesn't resign.

Dude, you seem to be arguing about something where no one is suggesting anything different. Sorry you got so bent out of shape on my bad Thunder analogy. Try to calm down now.

[MU Viking]

Dude, you seem to be arguing about something where no one is suggesting anything different. Sorry you got so bent out of shape on my bad Thunder analogy. Try to calm down now.

I'm extremely calm. Thank you for your concern.

[Markedman]

https://twitter.com/giannis_an34/status/1306068269548404736?s=21

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

So...uhh...Thunder discussion aside, what do the Bucks need to do to get over the hump? I feel like part of the problem was that they didn't have a steadying presence down the stretch. Giannis couldn't convert at the line and no one else seemed willing or able to step up and hit the big shots the way that Jimmy did for the Heat.

I think someone like Paul would be great for this roster. He can create a shot for himself or others. Can they get him without giving up Middleton? And while it might be unrealistic, if they are willing to go into luxury tax, making a push at Brandon Ingram may be worthwhile (presumably K-Mid in a sign & trade). That way if Giannis does leave, they have a building block for the future. Fred Van Vleet might also be worth a look, he can hit the big shot and has certainly killed the Bucks enough in the past. The NBA isn't nearly my game as much and I usually tune in around this time of year more than anything, so I'm not sure if any of that is realistic.

[TAS35]

The plan:

Bledsoe to the Lakers for Danny Green (he's on an expiring for like $16m)

Then,

Green, George Hill, Ilysova, DJ Wilson to the Thunder for Paul

The player compensation sucks for sure, but OKC does it because it saves them like $50 million in total salaries. Everyone but Hill is an expiring and he's only 2 more years before expiring. I think that will matter this year more than anything. OKC isn't exactly a large market

Then flip Brook Lopez to the Rockets for Covington. Salaries match up well. With no D'Antoni (and maybe no Darryl Morey either), the super small ball thing might be over. Heck Brook can still play wide for them, but now they have some rim protection as well.

Giannis is now the full time 5. Play him at the high post/elbow. Run pick and rolls with him and CP like Jokic and Murray did last night. Spread shooters around that. Giannis is a good enough passer to make plays from that set, and now you've taken away his "plow into three guys and try the spin move" thing that stopped working against the Heat.

And for god's sake, get those 3 perimeter players moving off ball, screening for each other. I was just screaming at my TV watching Giannis try to drive through 3-4 people while the other 4 guys stood still behind the 3 point line with their hands out waiting for the kick out pass. That became very easy to defend.

Try to grab a couple guys like Crowder and/or Millsap with the mid level exception $.

Championship....