Jimmy to the Knicks?

[IWB]

Jimmy Butler to the Knicks?

https://www.metro.us/sports/jimmy-butler-knicks-nba-trade-rumors-frank-ntilikina-courtney-lee

[CaribouJim]

Jimmy has been living a drama filled life the last 2-3 seasons. Surprised to see that he and Tibs have had what it seems like a falling out.

[Markedman]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/09/timberwolves-jimmy-butler-requests-trade.html

[CaribouJim]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/09/timberwolves-jimmy-butler-requests-trade.html

I misinterpreted the situation with Jimmy and the T-Wolves - sounds like JB and Tibs are fine, but more contractual and larger market based, but I do think there is credence to the Townes and Wiggins not warming up to Jimmy and vice versa. Too bad - on paper they are more than solid, although I think Wiggins has regressed a bit after a pretty impressive start to his NBA career.

[Goose85]

Not sure about the Clippers, but if Jimmy can get Kyrie Irving to eventually join him in going to the Knicks, they along with Porzingis would make a pretty good team in the East.

[CaribouJim]

Here is more stuff: https://www.sbnation.com/2018/9/19/17873936/jimmy-butler-trade-timberwolves-explained-blame-game-tom-thibodeau-andrew-wiggins-karl-anthony-towns

Doling out the blame...

[Markedman]

http://amicohoops.net/opposing-gm-i-wouldnt-trade-for-wolves-star-butler/

[CaribouJim]

http://amicohoops.net/opposing-gm-i-wouldnt-trade-for-wolves-star-butler/

“He’s been a huge hassle for everyone I’ve talked to with both (the Bulls and Timberwolves),” the GM said. “I don’t care where they trade him. He’s still going to be there. Changing uniforms isn’t going to change Jimmy Butler. He needs to change himself. I wouldn’t take that risk. For Jimmy, it’s always all about Jimmy. Forget that, man.”

OUCH!

[Goose85]

“He’s been a huge hassle for everyone I’ve talked to with both (the Bulls and Timberwolves),” the GM said. “I don’t care where they trade him. He’s still going to be there. Changing uniforms isn’t going to change Jimmy Butler. He needs to change himself. I wouldn’t take that risk. For Jimmy, it’s always all about Jimmy. Forget that, man.”

OUCH!

Not very nice things to say about Butler. Money and fame can change people. He still works hard, expects others to work hard, but it sounds like in doing so he does a pretty good job of alienating his teammates.

Some quotes that don't sound like the same guy that was playing here at MU.

“He didn’t want to play in Chicago, he doesn’t want to play in Minnesota,” the opposing GM said. “Does he actually even want to play? Or does he just have people kiss his ass and receive a big paycheck?

“Look, there is no doubt Jimmy is extremely talented. He can help you win games. He gets after it on defense. But he’s not proven to be a team player. It’s one thing to put up numbers. How about having your teammates’ back and being a leader? He doesn’t do those things. I doubt he ever will.

[IWB]

I'm not going to pretend to know what's going on behind the scenes here, but one thing that hit me was the line where it said that Thibs didn't take into account how Jimmy's leadership style would mesh with Wiggins and Towns.

Ok - I'll take a swing at that one. I have seen Jimmy's leadership style up close and often. It is hard core. He works his ass off and expects everyone else to do the same. He got that from coaches and teammates who helped him rise to the top as they had the same approach.

Jimmy came from nothing. Homeless at what, 13? He made himself into what he is today.

Now let's look at the two that don't like his style. Towns & Wiggins.
Both have been superstars since they were very young.
Both went to more than one high school.
Both were Gatorade national player of the year.
Both were McD's All-Americans.
They went to Kansas & Kentucky where both were All-American as freshmen.
Both were 1-and-done.
Both were the overall number 1 pick.

Jimmy expects everyone around him to work as hard as he does. Maybe that's not fair to all of them, but... any chance that these guys have always had everything handed to them, never really had to work too hard and get pissed when someone calls them out and or pushes them?

[IrwinFletcher]

Wasn’t there a cryptic tweet sent out by someone (maybe DJO) a couple years back kind of ripping a former teammate who had gotten a little to big for his britches? Was that possibly referring to Jimmy?

My memory could be off on this.

[Goose85]

I'm not going to pretend to know what's going on behind the scenes here, but one thing that hit me was the line where it said that Thibs didn't take into account how Jimmy's leadership style would mesh with Wiggins and Towns.

Ok - I'll take a swing at that one. I have seen Jimmy's leadership style up close and often. It is hard core. He works his ass off and expects everyone else to do the same. He got that from coaches and teammates who helped him rise to the top as they had the same approach.

Jimmy came from nothing. Homeless at what, 13? He made himself into what he is today.

Now let's look at the two that don't like his style. Towns & Wiggins.
Both have been superstars since they were very young.
Both went to more than one high school.
Both were Gatorade national player of the year.
Both were McD's All-Americans.
They went to Kansas & Kentucky where both were All-American as freshmen.
Both were 1-and-done.
Both were the overall number 1 pick.

Jimmy expects everyone around him to work as hard as he does. Maybe that's not fair to all of them, but... any chance that these guys have always had everything handed to them, never really had to work too hard and get pissed when someone calls them out and or pushes them?

I've read some more articles on the topic, and it seems like Towns doesn't like to be called out for being soft. Thought that both Butler and Thibs were ganging up on him.
My guess is they were both on him to work hard on D and as IWB pointed out, he's always been the star and handled differently.

Butler is a top player because he worked hard and made himself a top player. I'm guessing Minn thought that Butler could be the hard working role model they thought Towns and Wiggins needed. Backfired, as it does sound like those guys didn't care for being told by a teammate to step it up and work harder, etc. If that is the way Towns is, then he will make a lot of money, be a really good player, but never win anything.

Hope Jimmy lands in a place where his style and personality can fit in and work. I really think he would fit great with Giannis, Brogdan, and some of the guys on the Bucks team, but that won't happen.

[TheSultan]

“He didn’t want to play in Chicago, he doesn’t want to play in Minnesota,” the opposing GM said. “Does he actually even want to play? Or does he just have people kiss his ass and receive a big paycheck?




Does he even want to play? He's been in the league seven years. He's been top ten in MPG five of those seven.

[Goose85]

Does he even want to play? He's been in the league seven years. He's been top ten in MPG five of those seven.

Yep, that GM's comments were a bit off I thought. He doesn't just want to play, he wants his teammates to play and to win.

[MU Viking]

Heard a radio rumor today that this has at least something to do with Karl Anthony-Towns girlfriend and her fidelity to said KAT.

Found a little tidbit online: https://fadeawayworld.net/2018/09/20/report-jimmy-butler-may-have-cheated-with-karl-anthony-towns-girlfriend/

While I am from Minnesota originally, I can neither confirm nor deny the veracity of this claim...

[mufan2003]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24766934/minnesota-timberwolves-owner-glen-taylor-wants-jimmy-butler-trade-done-quickly

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Wasn’t there a cryptic tweet sent out by someone (maybe DJO) a couple years back kind of ripping a former teammate who had gotten a little to big for his britches? Was that possibly referring to Jimmy?

My memory could be off on this.

I think your memory is spot on. As I recall that tweet was definitely a shot at Jimmy.

I think that Jim's analysis is pretty fair. Jimmy works his butt off and expects that he can lead by example. But when others don't follow that example, he gets upset. Part of being a leader isn't just putting the work in, but conveying to others a methodology that works for them. I get the sense that Jimmy wants to lead and wants others to match his work ethic, but doesn't know any other way when his methods aren't working. And I think that's why he's being painted like this by GMs. Because they know that many NBA stars aren't going to mesh with that style of leadership.

Honestly, I don't think the three teams he mentions are teams where he will be happy. The Knicks, with Porzingis and possibly Irving in a year might be able to contend, but will those guys be willing to follow Butler's lead? I'm not so sure. On Brooklyn and the Clips, he'll be the de facto leader on basis of accomplishments and contract, but will anyone have the ability to match his expectations? Again, doubtful. I think he might fit in best somewhere that is more regimented. A system based organization, like the Spurs, with a military veteran like Popovich leading the way.

[Gato78]

FWIW Thibs controls bb side and wants Jimmy to stay. Ownership wants him gone. Ownership just gave KAT a max contract. Jimmy is an All Star. This story is so odd.

[pbiflyer]

Ok - I'll take a swing at that one. I have seen Jimmy's leadership style up close and often. It is hard core. He works his ass off and expects everyone else to do the same. He got that from coaches and teammates who helped him rise to the top as they had the same approach.


Jimmy expects everyone around him to work as hard as he does. Maybe that's not fair to all of them, but... any chance that these guys have always had everything handed to them, never really had to work too hard and get pissed when someone calls them out and or pushes them?

Do you know where that kind of attitude would work well? Miami.

So far, Pat Riley and Miami have been as aggressive as any team, league sources said.
(http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24766934/minnesota-timberwolves-owner-glen-taylor-wants-jimmy-butler-trade-done-quickly)

[mufan2003]

I advocated this past July, when Jimmy turned down an extension offer, that the Bucks should target him for July 2019. However, that was under the wishful assumption that Jimmy would take a little less money to potentially win big.

4 years at approximately $140 million, the Bucks could clear cap space to make that viable over the coming season. 5 years at approximately $190 million is unthinkable given the fact Giannis is eligible for an extension in July of 2020 and could become an unrestricted free agent in July of 2021.

[IWB]

I think your memory is spot on. As I recall that tweet was definitely a shot at Jimmy.

I dug into that one when it happened. Yes it was targeted at Jimmy, I can't remember exactly what it was but I think he no showed at somebody's camp or something along those lines.

[Goose85]

Well they gave KAT the big money extension, so I'd guess that means Jimmy will be moving on.

[IWB]

Whatever it is, it should be done very soon as the T-Wolves said they want it over before practice starts and that is tomorrow.

[Goose85]

Sounds like the Bucks are one of the teams with interest in Jimmy.
Just not sure we have what Minn would need / want.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/add-cavs-blazers-wizards-bucks-180829612.html

[mufan2003]

Sounds like the Bucks are one of the teams with interest in Jimmy.
Just not sure we have what Minn would need / want.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/add-cavs-blazers-wizards-bucks-180829612.html

While I would love to see Jimmy come to Milwaukee, the Bucks have Middleton and Giannis due for new deals in the near future. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to pay all 3 what they want.

Middleton has a $13 million player option for 19-20, which he likely will not exercise, given the fact he is worth much more now (and he's only 27). Giannis is eligible for an extension in just 2 years.

They would have to do something similar to what Miami did in the summer of 2010 (LeBron, Bosh and Wade). Sacrificing some money to play together.

[mufan2003]

Sounds like there is strong mutual interest between Miami and Jimmy.

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1044946389275471878

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article219041540.html