Bring Back WISAA?

[TedBaxter]

http://www.wissports.net/news_article/show/828406?referrer_id=532585

If this proposal goes through I think some private schools will long for the old WISAA model.

To say I'm incensed with this proposal is putting it lightly and I could go on and on how discriminating this is for private schools.

[Goose85]

The Dominican rule. Because Dominican had Wilson and Stone, among others, and had a nice stretch the whole WIAA is up in arms. If Cuba City won those titles nobody would care, even though schools like that also attract from outside their region.

How do you define rural? What is classification town or rural? Is the town of Cedarburg considered town/rural?

Prairie Du Chien makes one final four in the past 24 years. Is the idea that all schools should make the final four every decade or so? Maybe the guy isn't that good of a coach, or maybe basketball isn't that schools sport. Maybe they are just in a tough basketball sectional. Ask some of the Milwaukee schools who are in sectionals that are as good as state how fair it seems every year.

The article says there are 91 teams in D2. Only 4 go to state. So, if no team was a repeat at the state tournament, it would take 23 years for all schools to go to the state tournament. Seems to me that poor Prairie Du Chien, with one trip in 24 years, is right in line with what is expected.

I'm sure there will be lawsuits.

[TheSultan]

The 256 schools in the proposed divisions 4 and 5 think this is great. Most of the 231 schools in divisions 1-3 don't. I'm sure this was set up intentionally that way.

[Halo]

http://www.wissports.net/news_article/show/828406?referrer_id=532585

If this proposal goes through I think some private schools will long for the old WISAA model.

To say I'm incensed with this proposal is putting it lightly and I could go on and on how discriminating this is for private schools.

This is crap and will affect my kids. We are going through all of this now on the public vs private in sports. To say the public schools have no advantages is not accurate. They have the ability to get all of their youth programs aligned with the systems of the high school programs. That is not happening consistently for the private schools, which can put them at a disadvantage. Look at the facilities at some of those public schools. Anyone seen Kimberly's indoor football facility? Insane. Verona will be setting the standard soon with their new high school and facilities. Those certainly help recruit kids compared to an old school like Edgewood that can't even play home football games due to the neighborhood not allowing lights on Friday nights. They get Middleton's scraps.

[TedBaxter]

Open enrollment complicates matters and I think I've posted this about a girl from my old school district.

- She goes to school from K-8 at a Division 3 school district and basically lives within a short walk of the high school.

- She open enrolls at a neighboring Division 3 high school (28 miles from home) as a freshman because of her connection to some girls from an AAU program. She participates in 2 state tournaments in both basketball and golf as a freshman and sophomore.

- Last spring she and her parents feel it would be better if she attends a 3rd school, a Division 5 basketball power, to finish out her high school career. This school also has players from her AAU team and one of the parents is her AAU coach. This will now require a 41 mile drive one way and she drives through 3 additional school districts on her way to school each day. The best part is that this new school has no golf team and her father actually called the golf coach from her original school to ask if she would be eligible to play golf for them. He wants to know if she can play for a school that has to shell out $7,000-$8,000 or more so their daughter can open enroll at another school?

[TheSultan]

This is crap and will affect my kids. We are going through all of this now on the public vs private in sports. To say the public schools have no advantages is not accurate. They have the ability to get all of their youth programs aligned with the systems of the high school programs. That is not happening consistently for the private schools, which can put them at a disadvantage. Look at the facilities at some of those public schools. Anyone seen Kimberly's indoor football facility? Insane. Verona will be setting the standard soon with their new high school and facilities. Those certainly help recruit kids compared to an old school like Edgewood that can even play home football games due to the neighborhood. They get Middleton's scraps.


You are correct that the public schools have advantages as well. But that's why they are making this an urban/suburban v. rural distinction. And I do understand the frustration of some of the rural schools, but I'm not sure if this is the best way to deal with this.

Ted's example is a good one. Good players are going to pool together using open enrollment. I think the days of a small town star like Anthony Pieper or Sam Okey are likely over. That player likely either goes to a private school or open enrolls to a larger school now.

[Goose85]

I go back to the question, how many final fours is a school supposed to go to in a 24 year period? That is a poor example used in the article.

What is considered urban / rural? Not sure I saw the definition or structure around determining that one.
Using Ted's example, seems 41 miles is not far to drive, so that would mean nothing between Milwaukee and Madison would count as any town in between would be between 40 miles of either city. Nothing between Milwaukee and Fondy, or nothing between Fondy and Green Bay.
How many miles from what is considered a city defines urban or rural?

[MUMac]

I go back to the question, how many final fours is a school supposed to go to in a 24 year period? That is a poor example used in the article.

What is considered urban / rural? Not sure I saw the definition or structure around determining that one.
Using Ted's example, seems 41 miles is not far to drive, so that would mean nothing between Milwaukee and Madison would count as any town in between would be between 40 miles of either city. Nothing between Milwaukee and Fondy, or nothing between Fondy and Green Bay.
How many miles from what is considered a city defines urban or rural?

The ironic part of that article is that he mentions both Edgewood and Lakeside Lutheran, like they are some private school powerhouse. Both have made a whopping total of one state appearance each. So, Platteville had the misfortune of meeting up with those two schools at the time they had their best teams. It happens, suck it up buttercup!

[IWB]

You can list many schools on both sides of the argument. What about Randolph? That is a town of 1,800. Was anyone complaining when they had Steimsma, Kelm or any of the Tillema brothers?

Goo mentions Cuba City - over the years they have had kids travel from Platteville, Illinois and Iowa to go to school there. Why? Because of Jerry Pettigue's basketball program.

Sorry that Racine St. Catherine's beats the crap out of small town schools. As Ted pointed out, private schools aren't the only ones getting kids from other districts.

I remember interviewing Scott Christopherson back when he transferred from Melrose-Mindoro to Lacrosse Aquinas. he said every opponent booed him, they all had signs about him... yet he said every school in their conference had at least two starters that weren't from their district.

There is no reason for WISSA to ever return, but I would like it if somewhere the WIAA would atleast acknowledge WISSA's history.

[Mark Miller]

For years WISAA schools were told its teams were not good enough to win WIAA state titles.

Most in the know knew that was hogwash.

17 years after the merger, it's safe to say that line of thinking has absolutely proven to be hogwash.

And you like these recent teams from Dominican and St. Catherine's? Well, the teams at both schools in the WISAA days were every bit as good if not better.

[MU88]

If this is only for basketball, you are creating a bigger problem than when you are solving. According to this, 2 of the final 4 D-3 teams from last year (Prescott and Lake Mills) will be dropped to D-4. Great. So, instead of losing the D-4 game to Destiny, Darlington and Cameron can lose to Prescott and Lake Mills. This plan pushes roughly 60 D-3 schools in to D-4, including 2 of the D-3 final four, while bumping up schools like University Lake which went 2-21 last year to D-3. Further, the plan actually pushs Lakeside Lutheran and Prairie du Chien from D-3 to D-4. Yes, the same school that coach at Prairie du Chien complains about in the article. I wonder how it will survive a court challenge.

[Mark Miller]

If this is only for basketball, you are creating a bigger problem than when you are solving. According to this, 2 of the final 4 D-3 teams from last year (Prescott and Lake Mills) will be dropped to D-4. Great. So, instead of losing the D-4 game to Destiny, Darlington and Cameron can lose to Prescott and Lake Mills. This plan pushes roughly 60 D-3 schools in to D-4, including 2 of the D-3 final four, while bumping up schools like University Lake which went 2-21 last year to D-3. Further, the plan actually pushs Lakeside Lutheran and Prairie du Chien from D-3 to D-4. Yes, the same school that coach at Prairie du Chien complains about in the article. I wonder how it will survive a court challenge.

Excellent points.

The plan, as it stands today, is just for basketball.

[TedBaxter]

The Prescott situation brings up another point. Border schools in western Wisconsin like Prescott, Ellsworth, Baldwin-Woodville, Amery and Somerset are close enough to the Twin Cities to get some of that training influence and they are now in Division 4. They may not be considered urban for Wisconsin purposes, but have an urban influence as many of the parents in these areas commute to the Twin Cities for jobs.

This whole thing has become a bad joke.

[TheSultan]

If this is only for basketball, you are creating a bigger problem than when you are solving. According to this, 2 of the final 4 D-3 teams from last year (Prescott and Lake Mills) will be dropped to D-4. Great. So, instead of losing the D-4 game to Destiny, Darlington and Cameron can lose to Prescott and Lake Mills. This plan pushes roughly 60 D-3 schools in to D-4, including 2 of the D-3 final four, while bumping up schools like University Lake which went 2-21 last year to D-3. Further, the plan actually pushs Lakeside Lutheran and Prairie du Chien from D-3 to D-4. Yes, the same school that coach at Prairie du Chien complains about in the article. I wonder how it will survive a court challenge.


These are great points. I am not sure about a lawsuit though. The WIAA is a membership organization is acting according to its bylaws.

I did wonder if Lakeside Lutheran would be considered rural or suburban.

[MU88]

These are great points. I am not sure about a lawsuit though. The WIAA is a membership organization is acting according to its bylaws.

I did wonder if Lakeside Lutheran would be considered rural or suburban.

I would think the legal arguments would be based upon the amended rules violating certain clauses of the WIAA constitution, namely, to provide for fair and equal opportunities for all participants; and to promote uniformity of standards in interscholastic activities.

According to article, LL is a rural school.

[Phantom Warrior]

For me, this proposal can be summed up in one word: stoopid. Or maybe "dum" would be a better choice.

But as my mother continued telling me as I was growing up, unfortunately there is no Ministry of Logic.