OT: Copa America on FOX/FS1

[mufan2003]

Tournament favorites are Brazil and Argentina with Colombia (ranked 4th in the world) being in the same group as the USA. June 3 to June 26 with the semifinals and championship game on FS1.

http://www.espnfc.us/copa-america-tournament/story/2884212/copa-america-schedule-when-and-where-to-watch

http://www.espnfc.us/copa-america/83/table

http://www.espnfc.us/team/united-states/660/blog/post/2884080/us-national-team-roundtable-argues-jurgen-klinsmann-is-under-pressure-at-copa-america

[MU/Panther]

Wait, wait wait. Where hyping a Copa America on FS1, but using ESPN links? :o

https://foxsports.calreply.net/copa-america

[MU/Panther]

Kobe on FS1 Copa America

http://www.foxsports.com/presspass/latestnews/2016/05/19/fox-sports-partners-with-kobe-bryant-for-copa-america

[milkbone]

I thought you were talking about Tom Copa;)

[MayorBeluga]

I thought you were talking about Tom Copa;)

Caribou thought the thread involved Barry Manilow singing Copacabana

[CaribouJim]

Caribou thought the thread involved Barry Manilow singing Copacabana

...and your point? I'd be ashamed of myself if that was not the first thing I thought of.

BTW, I was at Tom Copa's first game in the NBA with the Spurs in San Antonio - I saw him warming up and I was thinking "is that the MU Tom Copa??".

[mufan2003]

Wait, wait wait. Where hyping a Copa America on FS1, but using ESPN links? :o

https://foxsports.calreply.net/copa-america

Ha, good point. Although I have to admit, ESPNFC has a lot of content and contributors providing good coverage. Hopefully the tournament will provide some solid ratings for FOX and FS1. USA and Mexico matches should bring good ratings.

Busy summer of soccer with the European Championship taking place as well.

[mufan2003]

http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/story/usmnt-shows-signs-of-being-the-team-jurgen-klinsmann-promised-060416

[MU/Panther]

http://www.foxsports.com/presspass/latestnews/2016/06/040/04

[mufan2003]

USA vs Paraguay - 6pm FS1 (5pm pregame)

With a win or draw the USA advances to the Quarterfinals. A loss eliminates the USA.

http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/story/what-the-usmnt-must-do-to-advance-at-copa-america-centenario-061116

[MU/Panther]

Ratings have been pretty good for Copa America on FS1. I'll guess 1.6 million tonight.

[mufan2003]

Ratings have been pretty good for Copa America on FS1. I'll guess 1.6 million tonight.

About 1.4 million for the USA's 2nd game? Colin Cowherd had an interesting take on soccer and the tournament.

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/ColinCowherd">@ColinCowherd</a>: Soccer is a &quot;Big Four&quot; sport. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/HerdHere?src=hash">#HerdHere</a><a href="https://t.co/Wfz38bPsiX">https://t.co/Wfz38bPsiX</a></p>&mdash; Herd w/Colin Cowherd (@TheHerd) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheHerd/status/741388101474344960">June 10, 2016</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[TheSultan]

Discussing if soccer has "officially" replaced hockey as the fourth most popular sport is just so Cowherd. And just what is so annoying about sports media today.

[mufan2003]

Discussing if soccer has "officially" replaced hockey as the fourth most popular sport is just so Cowherd. And just what is so annoying about sports media today.

I wouldn't know, just saw this segment on a postgame show a few nights ago. I think it is comparing apples and oranges. Hard to compare national team soccer to a domestic league (NHL). However, soccer's evolution in America has been impressive.

[mufan2003]

Wow!!! USA likely expected Colombia to take care of Costa Rica, who the USA beat 4-0. Costa Rica just scored and is up 3-1 on #3 in the world Colombia. FS2. If USA finishes 1st in Group A, they avoid Brazil in the Quarterfinals.

[TheSultan]

Wow!!! USA likely expected Colombia to take care of Costa Rica, who the USA beat 4-0. Costa Rica just scored and is up 3-1 on #3 in the world Colombia. FS2. If USA finishes 1st in Group A, they avoid Brazil in the Quarterfinals.


LIKELY avoid. Brazil still has to not lose to Peru.

[mufan2003]

LIKELY avoid. Brazil still has to not lose to Peru.

That is right. USA could play Brazil or Peru. Even Ecuador if Brazil/Peru tied and Ecuador made up for a large goal differential in a win (unlikely).

[TheSultan]

So Thursday will see the biggest US soccer game in quite awhile. Big crowd in Seattle for the Copa quarters against Ecuador.

And it's going right up against Game 6 of the NBA Finals.

I wonder how much Fox would like to move kickoff to 6:00 Central to avoid that conflict.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

That is tough for FOX, especially because it is Game 6...

[MU/Panther]

It's on FS1, not FOX.

They knew this might be coming as Game 6 date, was set last year.

[DCwarrior]

I know I'll be watching the Copa...the games are so much more exciting to watch. The crowds are crazy.

[TheSultan]

It's on FS1, not FOX.

They knew this might be coming as Game 6 date, was set last year.


I meant Fox as owner of FS1.

I guess they didn't think that the US would win the group and that the more likely scenario was they would play Friday.

[Mucrisco]

I'll be watching the US game. Then again, I've watched all the US games and maybe a half of one game of the NBA finals.

[mufan2003]

Like March Madness, I am going to use the good old fashion cable splitter to have the USA match on the 48" with audio and the Finals game on the 32" muted.

[mufan2003]

Ratings have been pretty good for Copa America on FS1. I'll guess 1.6 million tonight.

2 million for the USA/Paraguay match.

http://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2016/6/13/11920118/usa-paraguay-copa-america-match-breaks-tv-viewing-record

[MU/Panther]

I am going to use the good old fashion cable splitter to have the USA match on the 48" with audio and the Finals game on the 32" muted.

Mine is also 24/7, 51 inch and 32 inch!

[MU/Panther]

2 million for the USA/Paraguay match.

http://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2016/6/13/11920118/usa-paraguay-copa-america-match-breaks-tv-viewing-record Final rating 1.822 million. Glad to see it was higher than what I guessed. Copa definitely helping FS1's primetime numbers. ESPN's primetime average topped FS1 for the week though 910K to 807K.

[IrwinFletcher]

After the last USA match, the came back to the studio and immediately started talking about if Soccer in America is here and here to stay (finally) and they all agreed that the trend is massively moving in the right direction.

I am going to be very curious to see the numbers for the NBA Finals vs. Copa Quarters for Thursday night. That will give another indication of where Americans view Soccer.

[TheSultan]

Game 5 had 16.2 million viewers. I doubt it will be significantly smaller due to the soccer game.

And I think it is a little unfair to soccer to judge its performance against an NBA Finals that includes two of the biggest stars of the game.

[IrwinFletcher]

I am not saying to compare the two and see who has the higher number of eyeballs on the games. I would be surprised if the match came close to Game 6. But if it were relatively close, then I think that sends a big message about the popularity of the sport and how it has grown over the past 5-10 years.

[MUMac]

I am not saying to compare the two and see who has the higher number of eyeballs on the games. I would be surprised if the match came close to Game 6. But if it were relatively close, then I think that sends a big message about the popularity of the sport and how it has grown over the past 5-10 years.

Everyone who picks up the paper, reads online, watches TV knows about Game 6. The same cannot be said for the Quarterfinal. It just does not have the media blitz and exposure to compete for heads.

[IrwinFletcher]

100% in agreement. So if the numbers for the USA/Ecuador is even remotely close to Game 6, I think it speaks volumes to the popularity of Soccer in 2016.

[mufan2003]

Keep in mind there is also spanish-speaking Univision broadcasting the tournament in the USA, which put the last game at an average of 4.4 million viewers in the USA:
http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/06/12/4-4-million-watch-usas-copa-america-victory-paraguay/

The Copa America is a prestigious tournament but not as big as the World Cup. The USA's 3 group stage matches in World Cup 2014 had viewership numbers of 11.09 million, 18.22 million and 10.77 million. The quarterfinal loss to Belgium had 16.49 million:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2014/07/03/inside-the-numbers-world-cup-tv-viewership-on-espn-for-team-usa-matches/#73d9dcce7d91

The 2015 women's World Cup final of USA vs Japan averaged 25.4 million viewers peaking at 31 million:
http://www.foxsports.com/presspass/latestnews/2015/07/06/25-4-million-viewers-witness-usa-defeat-japan-to-win-fifa-womens

I think these numbers speak for the popularity of soccer. The NBA Finals are the NBA's biggest stage and the World Cup is USA soccer's biggest stage. Anyway, whatever the ratings, I enjoy both.

[mufan2003]

Mine is also 24/7, 51 inch and 32 inch!

You win :).

[MU/Panther]

I think these numbers speak for the popularity of soccer. The NBA Finals are the NBA's biggest stage and the World Cup is USA soccer's biggest stage. Anyway, whatever the ratings, I enjoy both. I think international soccer events country vs country is getting much more bigger in the US, kind of works like the Olympics every four years. It's not like MLS gets big numbers or something like Barclays doesn't get huge numbers.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

The difference now is that there's availability and people are actually watching. The numbers may not be there yet, but it's consistent growth, the kind which we've been promised since the 70s but until the last 10 years or so didn't really happen. The combination of MLS being watchable, numerous European leagues being readily available, and international competitions having players that are recognizable has put the sport on the map like never before.

I won't say it will compete with football, basketball, or baseball in our lifetimes, but I do think it could viably be a challenger for the "fourth sport" tier that has been occupied by the NHL, NASCAR, and (maybe?) UFC over the past few decades.

[DCwarrior]

10-15 years ago, you couldn't find soccer on TV. Now the EPL is on every Saturday/Sunday; the Bundesleague is on every weekend; the best Champions league games are on TV; MLS games are on TV all the time; All the US National games (and most of Mexico's for that matter) from friendlies to Gold Cup to Copa to World Cup are on TV.

The sport is clearly the most popular sport in the World and it's growing by leaps and bounds in the US (both as a spectator sport and in youth participation). I think in another decade it will surpass hockey (if not there already) and baseball to be #3 in this country in terms of popularity. In another generation or two (especially as the demographics in this country change), it could very well be #1 or #2 as more kids continue to switch from football to soccer at the youth level and as MLS grows and begins to draw bigger stars in their prime to the league.

[IrwinFletcher]

, it could very well be #1 or #2 as more kids continue to switch from football to soccer at the youth level and as MLS grows and begins to draw bigger stars in their prime to the league.

Two key points. Kids are switching away from football and going to soccer and baseball right now. That will be a boon to both sports.

And getting home grown, young stars to stay here and play in MLS will be the key to make that league grow. Right now, the handful that have the ability, are playing in Europe because that is where the money and challenge are. Bringing in European stars when they are washed up won't help draw many fans in.

I also think MLS has been smart with their growth trying to be slow and steady. Has saved them money that they can put back in the league. Most of the stadiums have about a 25,000 seat capacity and that too was a good decision by all. Don't play in huge, cavernous stadiums that look empty when you get 20,000 fans to the game.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

The direction of MLS will be interesting to see. There are a couple things that work against them.

First, playing in summer is a huge hindrance. It takes them out of the transfer windows and on a global scale, puts them in competition with the international game (all major international tournaments are played in summer). I know a few Euros that watch MLS already, but no one is tuning into MLS when the Euros, Copa, or World Cup are on. I know the league has a mortal fear of competing with the NFL, but I think there's a way around it. Many of the colder leagues in Europe take a winter break. Poland, Germany, they all have a bit of time in the middle of winter when they don't play. MLS could run their league from September through December then go on a break before the NFL playoffs start. In the colder months try to adjust the schedule to play games in the southern cities. Then take a six-week break and come back in late February, after the Super Bowl. That will allow domestic fans to focus on Camp Cupcake and the January national team games and won't be too long of a break that you completely lose fans. Avoid competing for television eyes with the NFL and bowl season.

Second, retaining players and attracting players. It was great to get Beckham, and guys like Henry, Keane, and Kaka have raised the profile and quality of the league even in their later days. But when kids get really good, they go overseas and rarely come back unless they are starting to lose it (Bradley and Donovan would probably be the rare exceptions). Honestly, I'm not sure how you break through that. Probably just over time. Right now, the MLS is probably about on par with the second division in England, the Championship. That's not a terrible thing, as the Championship is probably better than some of Europe's top flight leagues in smaller countries, but we're Americans so we want to be the best and see the best. We're still a long way from that. Closer definitely than 20 years ago, but we don't even have the best league on the continent (Liga MX) much less a top league in the world.

Third, I think the MLS needs to expand their horizons beyond our shores. I know a few people overseas that watch us and think the league is surprisingly good and much better than it was. For EPL fans to watch our league (it's a minority but they do exist) shows that the league is good enough to start showcasing itself. When we have these big stars we sign, those MLS teams should go on foreign tours. Every year, we see Man U, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, and other massive clubs do American tours to market themselves to different audiences. The MLS should capitalize on that. As long as they are going to play the screwed up calendar, they are probably one of the best summer leagues going. Take Robbie Keane on a tour to Ireland. Take Frank Lampard on a tour to England. Take Kaka to play in Brazil. Let these other countries that already avidly watch the sport know that there's still a professional league going on and when they aren't tuned into the major international games there is still an option. I think many people don't realize that as the sport is so diverse and there are so many leagues and teams, many avid fans watch the sport year round and watch anything they can see. My old roommate and I used to get up at 5 am to watch EPL games, switch over to La Liga (Spain) around 11, then finish our day watching games from Italy. People who really love the sport will watch multiple leagues and take in whatever they can get. The MLS should be capitalizing on that, though to do so, they need to go overseas because the fans here already know they exist.

[mufan2003]

For those interested, here are the most recent FIFA world rankings. 3 of the Top 5 teams in the world advanced to the Quarterfinals of the Copa America. USA is #31 and Ecuador is #13, FWIW.

http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/

[Nukem2]

I keep thinking of Tom Copa when I see this thread title.

[IrwinFletcher]

Brewcity - I think you are over valuing the level of play at the MLS level. Talking with Euro friends as well, they are generally mocking the level of play here and think it is more of bottom level Championship to League 1 level.

Traveling overseas is a great idea, but who is going to go watch them play. QPR played the Fire last year and no one came to see it.

Retaining the American players is about 1 thing, and that is money. MLS is hamstrung by low revenues so can't pay any Domestic or international stars and are forced to bring them in when they are well past their primes. The ones you mention are big names, but they aren't really drawing crowds because their skill and fitness levels are nowhere where they used to be.

It will take time, but I do think it will happen.

[mufan2003]

I keep thinking of Tom Copa when I see this thread title.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/46bkXgxb66E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[MU/Panther]

1.878 million for USA-Ecuador on FS1 (includes 17 minutes of prematch) 1.202M on Univision Deportes (incl 30 min of prematch)

[TheSultan]

1.878 million for USA-Ecuador on FS1 (includes 17 minutes of prematch) 1.202M on Univision Deportes (incl 30 min of prematch)


That's good! Helped that Game 6 was an early blow out.

[IrwinFletcher]

Have to think US vs Messi could top 3 Million.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

So with the US v Argentina game being here in Houston I'm thinking about getting some tickets and going, has anyone ever been to a USMNT game? Is it worth the $300+ price tag for two seats? I'm a huge sports fan, don't know a ton about soccer, but feel like since its here close I owe it to myself to go for the experience.

[IrwinFletcher]

My only experience is the 1994 World Cup. I went to see Spain vs. Germany at Soldier Field. The match was really enjoyable but what still sticks with me today is the passion these fans have. They are up the whole match and chanting their chants and beating drums etc. I would recommend wholeheartedly to go whether you are a fan or not. The experience alone will be worth it - we have nothing like it.

[mufan2003]

So with the US v Argentina game being here in Houston I'm thinking about getting some tickets and going, has anyone ever been to a USMNT game? Is it worth the $300+ price tag for two seats? I'm a huge sports fan, don't know a ton about soccer, but feel like since its here close I owe it to myself to go for the experience.

You should definitely go. Not only to see the USA and be part of a great crowd, but likely playing the #1 ranked team in the world and the best player in the world (Messi).

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

You should definitely go. Not only to see the USA and be part of a great crowd, but likely playing the #1 ranked team in the world and the best player in the world (Messi).

+1

We went to both the USA and matches in Chicago. USA was great for the environment, but watching Messi was even better. Worth the price of admission for what should be a once in a lifetime type event (seeing your country take on the world's best player in a meaningful match live).

[mufan2003]

Last 2 Quarterfinal matches:

Argentina vs. Venezuela (6pm) (FX)

Mexico vs. Chile (9pm) (FX)

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Well I decided to go for it, I won't have great seats, but I'll be in the building!

[mufan2003]

Well I decided to go for it, I won't have great seats, but I'll be in the building!

Awesome! Maybe you will be the good luck charm in a USA upset win.

[MU/Panther]

Does FS1 get 3 million for the game tonight?

[Markedman]

Does Argentina get 3 million goals?

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

Awesome! Maybe you will be the good luck charm in a USA upset win.

Looks like I was anything but that... That was tough to watch.

[DCwarrior]

As great a player as Lebron is in basketball, I think Messi is better in soccer. He is a magician with the ball at his feet.

That game truly showed how far the US has to go before it can be mentioned in the same breath as the top teams in the world.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

As great a player as Lebron is in basketball, I think Messi is better in soccer. He is a magician with the ball at his feet.

That game truly showed how far the US has to go before it can be mentioned in the same breath as the top teams in the world.

This was my first soccer game ever, on any level, and even from someone who has such a basic understanding of the game it was blatantly obvious that Messi was head and shoulders the best player on that field, everytime he touched the ball it just looked and felt so much smoother than when anyone else did. As I mentioned, I have no basis for comparison other than the other players I saw on that field, but you could just tell he is special.

[IrwinFletcher]

Argentina showed that America will not win a Major Tournament in my lifetime. Talent level is nowhere close to teams like Argentina, Spain Germany etc.

Really fun to watch Messi.

[TheSultan]

As great a player as Lebron is in basketball, I think Messi is better in soccer.


I know what you're saying, but watching Messi last night was like watching Lebron play against Viterbo.

[farmerdoc]

Sultan, May I ask how you know Viterbo?

[TheSultan]

Sultan, May I ask how you know Viterbo?


I was just picking a random small school from Wisconsin. I really don't know it at all.

[IWB]

This was my first soccer game ever, on any level, and even from someone who has such a basic understanding of the game it was blatantly obvious that Messi was head and shoulders the best player on that field, everytime he touched the ball it just looked and felt so much smoother than when anyone else did. As I mentioned, I have no basis for comparison other than the other players I saw on that field, but you could just tell he is special.

That reminds me of a call I got from Goose85 during the last winter Olympics...

"I don't know anything about snowboarding, but it only took me 2 minutes of watching to realize that Shawn White is that much better than everyone else in the world."

I don't know anything about soccer but the issue is obvious. The best athletes in our country play basketball, football and baseball. That is where the fame and money is, that is what this country follows. That is not a knock on soccer at all, just fact based on where the best athletes are sports-wise in our country vs others.

Remember when the Olympic speed skating coach from, was it Germany? said, "The Americans waste too much time on sports like football and baseball when they should be focusing on the real sports".

Look at all of the speed at wide receiver in the NFL. Make any of those guys speed skaters since the age of 4 - you think any of todays speed skaters would still be on top?

Take a guy with closing speed and footwork like Deon Sanders. Teach him how to play soccer at age four and have him focus on that his entire life - would anyone touch a guy like that?

How about a guy like Michael "Wild Thing Wilson" from Memphis years ago. With the Globe Trotters he would dunk on a 12 foot hoop. Teach a guy like that to ski jump, would he ever come down?

Soccer has made huge strides in the US and continues to do so, but the focus on the other sports is too big in this country.

Interesting side note: My daughter goes to Pius. They have a good number of foreign exchange students from China. These kids flipped when they found out they could go out for sports like cross country because in China, only those that are selected at a young age play sports and that becomes their career. Can you imagine that? Here you can pick your sport, or many sports, but in many other countries, the sport picks a select few at age 4 and the rest are done for good.

I loved the article last fall about the kid from China who was playing football at Franklin? Greenfield? Can't remember where, but he came here as an exchange student and wanted to try football but knew nothing about. The team rallied around him, teaching him etc., and by the end of the year he was getting in for a few plays here and there and it was huge for him. Another great feel good story.

[farmerdoc]

Ha! that is funny. I was wondering, just cuz 3 of my siblings went there.

[IrwinFletcher]

Certainly the athleticism has something to do with it, but what sets European and South American teams apart from the US is their skill levels. The control they have with the soccer ball, whether it be with their feet or the heads, is so far advanced that what we are seeing here in the states. Possession is so key in soccer and the team that can control the ball more often then not wins the match. Argentina controlled the ball last night 67% of the game. That is due to skill and not as much to do with speed or athleticism.

In Europe, kids are "signed" be clubs like Man U or Bayern Munich and go to school and play soccer through the parent club. Kind of like IMG Academy. So these kids are playing soccer 4-8 hours every day and developing their skills at a young age. We are not doing that here with the kids (club soccer is nowhere near the level it needs to be). Until there is a change in development with the youngsters, we will have to get used to the drubbing we saw last night.

[mufan2003]

Certainly the athleticism has something to do with it, but what sets European and South American teams apart from the US is their skill levels. The control they have with the soccer ball, whether it be with their feet or the heads, is so far advanced that what we are seeing here in the states. Possession is so key in soccer and the team that can control the ball more often then not wins the match. Argentina controlled the ball last night 67% of the game. That is due to skill and not as much to do with speed or athleticism.

In Europe, kids are "signed" be clubs like Man U or Bayern Munich and go to school and play soccer through the parent club. Kind of like IMG Academy. So these kids are playing soccer 4-8 hours every day and developing their skills at a young age. We are not doing that here with the kids (club soccer is nowhere near the level it needs to be). Until there is a change in development with the youngsters, we will have to get used to the drubbing we saw last night.

Excellent point. Messi is 5'7", if you saw him get off the team bus, you might think he does not even see the field. There was a loose ball last night....20 to 30 yards in open space. DeAndre Yedlin (built like a free safety) of the USA just beat Messi to it. The USA has players that have athleticism, speed, size and physicality....it is the ball skills that are so behind a team like Argentina. As an analogy to basketball, think MCW compared to Steph Curry. MCW is more physically imposing, but Curry's skills with the ball are far superior to MCW. Or any average point guard compared to Chris Paul's ability to dribble, see the court and keep the ball away from the defender.

Germany in the 2014 World Cup, had players with size and physicality but brought along with that great "on the ball" skills. The few times the USA got possession, a player receiving a pass could not control it or the pass was poor. At all levels of soccer, an inferior team looks to be just kicking the ball forward without a purpose instead of stringing together passes and working the ball up the field. That was the USA last night.

[mufan2003]

As great a player as Lebron is in basketball, I think Messi is better in soccer. He is a magician with the ball at his feet.

That game truly showed how far the US has to go before it can be mentioned in the same breath as the top teams in the world.

No doubt about it. There has been progress though. I remember 1990, when the USA qualified for the World Cup (in Italy) for the first time since 1950. I was 10, and there was celebration just due to the fact that the USA was participating. It would have been a minor miracle for them to advance out of group play in 1990, and sure enough they lost all 3 of their group play matches. Since 1990, the USA has never failed to qualify for a World Cup and expectations are to get out of group play now.

1990: Eliminated in group play
1994: Round of 16
1998: Eliminated in group play
2002: Quarterfinals
2006: Eliminated in group play
2010: Round of 16
2014: Round of 16

The traditional powers: Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Italy, France, Spain. When they are good, which they usually always are, very difficult to beat. However, a team like England, the USA has actually had more success recently in international competition. The USA's first game in the Copa was Colombia, who is ranked 3rd in the world. The USA was right there with them and actually had more possession.

Last night, the USA was not helped having 3 regular starters (Jones, Wood, Bedoya) out against a team like Argentina. Need all player available when you are not as deep. If Argentina stays healthy and keeps playing as they are, they could be favorites 2 years from now in the 2018 World Cup in Russia.

[MUMac]

Excellent point. Messi is 5'7", if you saw him get off the team bus, you might think he does not even see the field. There was a loose ball last night....20 to 30 yards in open space. DeAndre Yedlin (built like a free safety) of the USA just beat Messi to it. The USA has players that have athleticism, speed, size and physicality....it is the ball skills that are so behind a team like Argentina. As an analogy to basketball, think MCW compared to Steph Curry. MCW is more physically imposing, but Curry's skills with the ball are far superior to MCW. Or any average point guard compared to Chris Paul's ability to dribble, see the court and keep the ball away from the defender.

Germany in the 2014 World Cup, had players with size and physicality but brought along with that great "on the ball" skills. The few times the USA got possession, a player receiving a pass could not control it or the pass was poor. At all levels of soccer, an inferior team looks to be just kicking the ball forward without a purpose instead of stringing together passes and working the ball up the field. That was the USA last night.

The 2nd goal was an example of that. The US turns the ball over with sloppy ball control. Argentina turns that into an advantage that forces a foul for a free kick.

Ball movement and control was like night and day last night. Argentina passes would stop on an Argentinian players foot like it was Velcro. It bounces, and sometimes hard, off of the US players foot.

[mufan2003]

The 2nd goal was an example of that. The US turns the ball over with sloppy ball control. Argentina turns that into an advantage that forces a foul for a free kick.

Ball movement and control was like night and day last night. Argentina passes would stop on an Argentinian players foot like it was Velcro. It bounces, and sometimes hard, off of the US players foot.

Agreed. Also the 4th goal where Michael Bradley gives it away in defensive territory. Leads to Messi setting it up for a teammate to make it 4-0.

[mufan2003]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-copa-us-argentina-tv-ratings-20160622-snap-story.html

http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-usa-copa-america-20160623-snap-story.html

[TheSultan]

They are pegging FS1 at 3.2 M
Univision at 4.8 M