Seton Hall/Butler & Creighton/Providence

[MU/Panther]

7:30 - Seton Hall @ Butler, FS1 - Joe Davis, Donny Marshall
Line: BUT -4.5
O/U: 147

8:00 - Creighton @ Providence, CBS SN - Ben Holden, Jordan Cornette, Jon Rothstein
Line: PROV -3.5
O/U: 145.5

[MUBasketball]

Two huge games - and as of now two tournament games in NYC on Thursday. This will help shake things out coming down the home stretch.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I am not too worried about the BE tournament, at this point I want as many teams from the BE in the NCAA tournament as possible... I will be pulling for Butler & Providence tonight.

[DCwarrior]

Those are almost must wins for both Butler and Providence. Lunardi has Butler as the 2nd to last team getting in and Providence as one of the last 8 in. Neither can risk a home loss at this point.

[MU/Panther]

I am not too worried about the BE tournament, at this point I want as many teams from the BE in the NCAA tournament as possible... I will be pulling for Butler & Providence tonight.

I couldn't say it any better myself.

[warriorfan4life]

Those are almost must wins for both Butler and Providence. Lunardi has Butler as the 2nd to last team getting in and Providence as one of the last 8 in. Neither can risk a home loss at this point.

I think the quality of wins for Butler and Providence away from home (and in Butler's case, rating well in the non-RPI metrics) have them in a bit better shape then most bracketologists currently believe. I think that both win tonight to help secure their bids (and allows us to hopefully come in and get a W in Hinkle on Saturday).

[MU_Iceman]

I just don't get and never will understand the mentality of rooting for a "conference" that your favorite team plays in. As a Packer fan, I NEVER root for the rest of the NFC North unless it could have a direct impact on whether the Packers make the playoffs or not. In this instance, who really cares how many BE teams make the dance...MU isn't one of them...that just makes them look worse. I understand that all of you want the BE to look better, but I have news for you...the perception isn't going to change regardless. This current BE is simply NOT as good as the old BE, there is no way to sugarcoat it. It never will be, no matter how much we may want it to be. I said at the time when MU moved to this conference, it would be the death knell for the program...well, two years in, and 2 straight years of no NCAA berths, attendance is down, and MU did better in a tougher conference then they are in now. Unfortunately, it is what it is, but it's not trending in the right direction. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

[ValiantSailor]

Quick answer - recruiting. Think about it.

VS

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

I just don't get and never will understand the mentality of rooting for a "conference" that your favorite team plays in. As a Packer fan, I NEVER root for the rest of the NFC North unless it could have a direct impact on whether the Packers make the playoffs or not. In this instance, who really cares how many BE teams make the dance...MU isn't one of them...that just makes them look worse. I understand that all of you want the BE to look better, but I have news for you...the perception isn't going to change regardless. This current BE is simply NOT as good as the old BE, there is no way to sugarcoat it. It never will be, no matter how much we may want it to be. I said at the time when MU moved to this conference, it would be the death knell for the program...well, two years in, and 2 straight years of no NCAA berths, attendance is down, and MU did better in a tougher conference then they are in now. Unfortunately, it is what it is, but it's not trending in the right direction. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

Money... More teams in the tournament = more NCAA tournament credits... NCAA tournament money is very important for this league and will help them keep up with the big boys in recruiting and such. The more teams you have in, the more credits you can potentially earn.

[MU_Iceman]

Quick answer - recruiting. Think about it.

VS

This makes no sense...It really doesn't. So Butler, PC, Nova, Xavier etc make the tourney and have a decent showing..MU's sitting at home. It may help those school's recruiting, but it isn't doing a THING for MU's recruiting. So while the rest of the conference may be getting better...MU is spinning it's wheels. Not a good look for MU, at all. This will be the third straight year of no NCAA's, after 7 straight in the years prior. It directly coincides with the change in conference. To think otherwise is totally naive. A lot of schools go through coaching changes etc and take a step back, but for three straight years?? Maybe lower echelon schools that had a nice three year run but had zero success prior to that, but a school that was a perennial top 25 team, and elite 8 team, national attention etc. Now back to obscurity?? For a year...yes. But three straight?? All the momentum they had as a program is completely gone...again. It's a steep climb back up the mountain..they better get it figured out. No reason they shouldn't be an NCAA team every single year, or at least most years.

[MU_Iceman]

Money... More teams in the tournament = more NCAA tournament credits... NCAA tournament money is very important for this league and will help them keep up with the big boys in recruiting and such. The more teams you have in, the more credits you can potentially earn.

As I said, this current BE will NEVER EVER be equal with the big boys. It just simply won't. It was in the old Big east. You see it in fan support...for some schools like Creighton, Butler etc, these were HUGE steps up for their programs, so the fans love it etc. For MU, it has been a HUGE step down. To see it otherwise is simply being blind. I'd argue that there has been no school more negatively impacted by this conference change than MU. When you consider where they were a few years ago, and where they are now...which school in the conference has taken a bigger step back?? Answer is NO one. It's helped almost every team(DePaul is Depaul) but MU it has damaged their overall product. They may never recover from it, at least not to the level they had been at.

[MU_Iceman]

I disagree with everything you said and comparing a pro sport to college is an outer joke.


So you disagree with the FACT that MU has taken several steps back since joining this "new" conference that so many of you were overly excited about?? That they can't dominate a conference like this isn't concerning to you?? They had ZERO problems competing in a MUCH stronger old Big East. Answer this...how many other schools in recent NCAA history that had MU's pedigree over the last 7 years....Elite 8, two sweet 16's etc, Big East title, have taken this much of a drop off and missed the NCAA's three years in a row?? If you think some of that isn't the conference, you're blind. It helps schools like Butler and Creighton who took steps up, but for MU...they have been hurt by it more than any other school. That is a FACT. Look at the results on the court, and the fans in the seats.

[MU/Panther]

I just don't get and never will understand the mentality of rooting for a "conference" that your favorite team plays in. As a Packer fan, I NEVER root for the rest of the NFC North unless it could have a direct impact on whether the Packers make the playoffs or not. In this instance, who really cares how many BE teams make the dance...MU isn't one of them...that just makes them look worse. I understand that all of you want the BE to look better, but I have news for you...the perception isn't going to change regardless. This current BE is simply NOT as good as the old BE, there is no way to sugarcoat it. It never will be, no matter how much we may want it to be. I said at the time when MU moved to this conference, it would be the death knell for the program...well, two years in, and 2 straight years of no NCAA berths, attendance is down, and MU did better in a tougher conference then they are in now. Unfortunately, it is what it is, but it's not trending in the right direction. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

Packers fan card, for the love of god, who cares! Comparing pros to the landscape of college athletics is an outer joke. Conference pride is what it's all about. How can you be considered a good team in a bad league. It's super important for any league to get as many bids as they can. If you don't understand that, well there might be a Packer replay on.

Yes, the old Big East is gone. Who cares now, let's move on. Is that you Buzz.

[mufan2003]

MU's struggles recently were due to a coaching change, not the new conference. Amount of teams in the tournament and how far those teams go is how conferences are judged. The Big East has done well with bids, now has to have teams advance.

No conference is equal to the old Big East. 2006 to 2013 Big East was the best run of a conference I have seen.

[MU/Panther]

Providence 23 Creighton 21, 3:31 left in 1st half on CBSSN
Butler 45 Seton Hall 28, 17:01 left on FS1

[TheSultan]

I just don't get and never will understand the mentality of rooting for a "conference" that your favorite team plays in. As a Packer fan, I NEVER root for the rest of the NFC North unless it could have a direct impact on whether the Packers make the playoffs or not. In this instance, who really cares how many BE teams make the dance...MU isn't one of them...that just makes them look worse. I understand that all of you want the BE to look better, but I have news for you...the perception isn't going to change regardless. This current BE is simply NOT as good as the old BE, there is no way to sugarcoat it. It never will be, no matter how much we may want it to be. I said at the time when MU moved to this conference, it would be the death knell for the program...well, two years in, and 2 straight years of no NCAA berths, attendance is down, and MU did better in a tougher conference then they are in now. Unfortunately, it is what it is, but it's not trending in the right direction. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.


You are making two arguments here.

First, no one would disagree that the new BE isn't as good as the old one. Guess what...no matter how many times you point that out, it isn't going to change. The fact is that Marquette and the other BE teams did the best job they could with the future that was in front of them. It isn't the old BE, but it isn't bad either.

That being said, you should want the conference to be successful in the NCAAs. It makes the television product more valuable and increases tournament shares. Those two factors have a direct impact on Marquette's bottom line. Furthermore the perceived strength of the conference helps in recruiting. Many of Marquette's recruits have mentioned it. A rising tide raises all ships. A strong BE is good for Marquette in the long run.

I can guaranty you that Lovell, Scholl and Wojo want the BE to be successful in the NCAA. They would love nothing more than to have a team or two in the Final Four. You should want the same thing.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

As I said, this current BE will NEVER EVER be equal with the big boys. It just simply won't. It was in the old Big east. You see it in fan support...for some schools like Creighton, Butler etc, these were HUGE steps up for their programs, so the fans love it etc. For MU, it has been a HUGE step down. To see it otherwise is simply being blind. I'd argue that there has been no school more negatively impacted by this conference change than MU. When you consider where they were a few years ago, and where they are now...which school in the conference has taken a bigger step back?? Answer is NO one. It's helped almost every team(DePaul is Depaul) but MU it has damaged their overall product. They may never recover from it, at least not to the level they had been at.

Not sure what you are arguing, I never said we were going to be like the old big east, I simply stated if more teams from our conference make the tournament and advance we make more money... More money is good for MU... End of story.

[MUBasketball]

If you don't understand the importance of being in a strong conference, nobody here can help you.

I'm sick of the Big East bashing nationally, especially within a conference team fan base! This is still a power league, and that's with MU, GTown, and St. Johns not being as good as usual. This is an excellent league.

[MU/Panther]

Creighton 43 Providence 37, 14:41 left on CBSSN

Butler 71 Seton Hall 66, 3:44 left on FS1

[2012Warrior]

The Big East is still trying to gain legitimacy in the eyes of the casual sports fan. The old Big East, we didn't have to worry as much because when you say big East, people immediately thought, "that's the top basketball conference." We don't have that right now. It's certainly a better conference than what is perceived nationally. Honestly, people at work or family friends still talk about it being the Catholic League.

As far as recruits, sure we didn't want Louisville and UConn loading up on 5 stars. However, the better recruits usually mean better teams. Also, having the hype of big recruits get people talking. I think when MU gets back to a tournament we won't care as much about the rest of the conference. Also, hopefully MU will be the ones making the deep runs themselves.

[MU_Iceman]

If you don't understand the importance of being in a strong conference, nobody here can help you.

I'm sick of the Big East bashing nationally, especially within a conference team fan base! This is still a power league, and that's with MU, GTown, and St. Johns not being as good as usual. This is an excellent league.

Keep telling yourself that. It's a GOOD league...but it's NOT the ACC, SEC, BXII etc, or anywhere close to the old Big East. Don't you think it's ironic that MU has struggled badly, in a lessor league?? That's NOT the way it was supposed to be. I totally understand what being a strong conference means...look at what the old Big East did for MU. That's obvious...the problem is, this conference will NEVER do that for them, unless they get to the point where they are dominating it year in year out..then MAYBE. But no team has taken more steps backwards with this conference change than has MU...that doesn't concern you?? At all??

[2012Warrior]

Keep telling yourself that. It's a GOOD league...but it's NOT the ACC, SEC, BXII etc, or anywhere close to the old Big East. Don't you think it's ironic that MU has struggled badly, in a lessor league?? That's NOT the way it was supposed to be. I totally understand what being a strong conference means...look at what the old Big East did for MU. That's obvious...the problem is, this conference will NEVER do that for them, unless they get to the point where they are dominating it year in year out..then MAYBE. But no team has taken more steps backwards with this conference change than has MU...that doesn't concern you?? At all??

Is the SEC any good? I think the Big East has been a better league the last 3 years. It's usually pretty weak outside of UK.

[MUBasketball]

Keep telling yourself that. It's a GOOD league...but it's NOT the ACC, SEC, BXII etc, or anywhere close to the old Big East. Don't you think it's ironic that MU has struggled badly, in a lessor league?? That's NOT the way it was supposed to be. I totally understand what being a strong conference means...look at what the old Big East did for MU. That's obvious...the problem is, this conference will NEVER do that for them, unless they get to the point where they are dominating it year in year out..then MAYBE. But no team has taken more steps backwards with this conference change than has MU...that doesn't concern you?? At all??

Uhhhmm, the BE is currently #4 in conference RPI. RPI is flawed, don't get me wrong. Head-to-head vs. other power conferences it has fared very well also. Listed below are Big East teams vs. other conferences:

ACC: 5-4
AAC: 5-1
A10: 7-2
Big 12: 0-2
B1G: 10-7
MVC: 6-1
Pac 12: 4-2
SEC: 7-3

A winning record against all but ONE of these conferences!! These are facts, cannot be disputed. What's all the complaining about? Boy this league stinks huh? Heavy sarcasm, if you didn't notice.

MU struggling has to do with a number of factors, primarily a coaching change where Wojo hasn't had to start from scratch, but pretty damn close.

[warriorfan4life]

In an actually useful metric, the Big East is also 4th in the Pomeroys. It was 3rd in the Pomeroys a year before. It was 3rd-4th in Pomeroys during most of the first year before it plummeted to 6th following the awful postseason showing (2-4 in NCAA's, 1-2 in NIT with Johnnies losing to 162nd ranked Robert Morris).

[79warrior]

Keep telling yourself that. It's a GOOD league...but it's NOT the ACC, SEC, BXII etc, or anywhere close to the old Big East. Don't you think it's ironic that MU has struggled badly, in a lessor league?? That's NOT the way it was supposed to be. I totally understand what being a strong conference means...look at what the old Big East did for MU. That's obvious...the problem is, this conference will NEVER do that for them, unless they get to the point where they are dominating it year in year out..then MAYBE. But no team has taken more steps backwards with this conference change than has MU...that doesn't concern you?? At all??

I think the folks at Georgetown would strongly disagree. They have a good case for more steps backwards than us. A after all. They are an original BE member.

[IrwinFletcher]

The only reason the SEC is considered a power basketball conference is because the football is so dominating.

[TheSultan]

Keep telling yourself that. It's a GOOD league...but it's NOT the ACC, SEC, BXII etc, or anywhere close to the old Big East. Don't you think it's ironic that MU has struggled badly, in a lessor league?? That's NOT the way it was supposed to be. I totally understand what being a strong conference means...look at what the old Big East did for MU. That's obvious...the problem is, this conference will NEVER do that for them, unless they get to the point where they are dominating it year in year out..then MAYBE. But no team has taken more steps backwards with this conference change than has MU...that doesn't concern you?? At all??


1. The Big East is a good league. As others have mentioned, it currently sits at #4 in conference RPI (ahead of the Big Ten, BTW). "Bracketologists" have four or five teams from the conference getting into the tournament. More than the SEC BTW. It is the best non-football league in college basketball.

2. Marquette is in the best conference it can possibly be in given the current college sports landscape. There is not a single better non-football conference than the Big East. There is NOTHING that Marquette can do to change that. NOTHING.

Bitching and moaning about it, and acting like chicken little about it, doesn't DO ANYTHING.

[Nukem2]

1. The Big East is a good league. As others have mentioned, it currently sits at #4 in conference RPI (ahead of the Big Ten, BTW). "Bracketologists" have four or five teams from the conference getting into the tournament. More than the SEC BTW. It is the best non-football league in college basketball.

2. Marquette is in the best conference it can possibly be in given the current college sports landscape. There is not a single better non-football conference than the Big East. There is NOTHING that Marquette can do to change that. NOTHING.

Bitching and moaning about it, and acting like chicken little about it, doesn't DO ANYTHING.Yep.

[Goose85]

The only reason the SEC is considered a power basketball conference is because the football is so dominating.

What the SEC has going for it is Kentucky, so that adds to the perception of league strength.
There were years when the ACC was just Duke and UNC with the rest being average at best, but because they had two teams ranked high that made trips to the final four the perception was the ACC is a great conference.

Hopefully Villanova and / or Xavier can make a final 4 run this year.
It would be great if Villanova could become the Big East's Kentucky, with deep NCAA runs and consistent high rankings. We know the league is very good, but that would really help from a national perception of the league.

[kneelb4zerg]

Iceman still whining about the conference situation? Really??

[MU/Panther]

Iceman still whining about the conference situation? Really?? With his Packers glasses, not understanding why it's good for a conference to be good.

[TedBaxter]

Boston College followed their football nose to the ACC. They were 0-8 in ACC games in football this year and are 0-17 in ACC games in basketball games so far. Bet their alums and fans are so happy they left the Big East.

[unclejohn]

Ironically, they won the Big East in their last season there.

[ValiantSailor]

What the SEC has going for it is Kentucky, so that adds to the perception of league strength.
There were years when the ACC was just Duke and UNC with the rest being average at best, but because they had two teams ranked high that made trips to the final four the perception was the ACC is a great conference.


What years were those? Maryland, NC State, Wake, and Florida State have all been powerful at various times over the last 30 years. UNC and Duke have been the most consistent, but they always had competition.

VS

[IWB]

Since joining the ACC, Boston College's record for conference games is...

Football: 32-40 44.4%

Basketball: 68-115 37.1%

[Goose85]

What years were those? Maryland, NC State, Wake, and Florida State have all been powerful at various times over the last 30 years. UNC and Duke have been the most consistent, but they always had competition.

VS

Not sure any of those teams has had any consistent tournament success over a long period of time where you would say the ACC is a great conference because of NC State, Wake, or Florida State.

Since 1990 the ACC only had final fours from Maryland in 2001 and 2002, and Georgia Tech in 1990 and 2004. People though the ACC was a great conference because Duke and UNC, and it really didn't matter if there was a third team.

[TheSultan]

Boston College followed their football nose to the ACC. They were 0-8 in ACC games in football this year and are 0-17 in ACC games in basketball games so far. Bet their alums and fans are so happy they left the Big East.

Considering the alternative of being in the AAC, I bet they are thrilled with their conference affiliation. There is no reason why they can't be better at athletics in the ACC.

They made three ACC championship games in four years in football. They finished 3rd and 4th respectively their first two years in basketball.

Their demise is almost entirely due to them making TERRIBLE coaching decisions under Gene DeFilippo who ran good coaches out of town and replaced them with bad ones. (His successor doesn't seem to be doing any better.)

[IrwinFletcher]

Since joining the ACC, Boston College's record for conference games is...

Football: 32-40 44.4%

Basketball: 68-115 37.1%

I have always wondered if Father Leahy would make a phone call to the Big East and see what it would take for them to get back into the BE. Add BC and then take your pick of SLU, Dayton, Valpo or whoever and that would be compelling. BC could go independant for football which actually might be a better scenario for them in the long run.

[TheSultan]

I have always wondered if Father Leahy would make a phone call to the Big East and see what it would take for them to get back into the BE. Add BC and then take your pick of SLU, Dayton, Valpo or whoever and that would be compelling. BC could go independant for football which actually might be a better scenario for them in the long run.


They would leave a league that is paying them $17 million per year on their television contract to go to one that pays just about $4 million? And I'm not including the bowl revenue for the conference that brought them $3 to 4 million last year. They aren't making up that difference as an independent.

Safe to say that phone call was never made.

[mufan2003]

Keep telling yourself that. It's a GOOD league...but it's NOT the ACC, SEC, BXII etc, or anywhere close to the old Big East. Don't you think it's ironic that MU has struggled badly, in a lessor league?? That's NOT the way it was supposed to be. I totally understand what being a strong conference means...look at what the old Big East did for MU. That's obvious...the problem is, this conference will NEVER do that for them, unless they get to the point where they are dominating it year in year out..then MAYBE. But no team has taken more steps backwards with this conference change than has MU...that doesn't concern you?? At all??

SEC bids over the last 3 years:

2013: 3
2014: 3
2015: 5

Being a 14 team conference, that is terrible. That conference has basically been Kentucky and Florida (when Billy Donovan was there).

ACC, a 15 team conference:

2014: 6
2015: 6


Big East (since becoming 10 teams):

2014: 4
2015: 6

A 10 team conference, that is very good, and likely will get 5 in this year. So years 2 and 3 of the 10-team BE, getting at least half of your league in the tournament. With two AP Top 5 teams, also shows the strength of the top teams in the conference. Now need some teams to make a deep run in the tournament.

[MayorBeluga]

Ironically, they won the Big East in their last season there.

Um, why is that ironic?