St. John's

[Goose85]

The Big East has gotten a lot of love in the recent bracketology. But one thing I think could really elevate the conference is if Mullin can get St. John's to be not just NCAA worthy, but top 25 worthy.

Mullin has Thon Maker in for an unofficial visit. St. John's is also in the hunt for Rawle Alkins, who is top 20 for both ESPN and Scout.
If Mullin can land one or even both of these players, added to what they have coming in / sitting out this season, next year could be a launching pad year for St. John's.

There seems to be no off nights in the league this year, and if St. John's can step it up it will only get tougher next season.

https://www.sny.tv/college-recruiting/news/thon-maker-on-unofficial-st-johns-visit/162312188

[IrwinFletcher]

Every year, this subject is brought up. Every year, SJU gets a couple of really good players. And every year they crap out.

The BE is arguably the 2nd best conference this year and SJU sucks. The conference doesn't need to have SJU be great again. Just because they are in NYC doesn't mean the BE will get more coverage. Like Chicago, NY is a pro ball town. SJU and DU could be undefeated and they would be relegated to the 2nd page in the papers (what's a paper).

I would much rather Marquette gets back to dominance again and let everything else play out.

[MUBasketball]

Actually, next year they should be pretty good regardless if they add anybody else.

LoVett will be a huge addition and allow Mussini to play off the ball. Tariq Owens is sitting out this year as a transfer from Tennessee. And they have a lot of youth this year, and guys are getting big minutes which should benefit them next year. They already have good shot blockers with their young bigs.

Sounds like they'll likely get Freudenberg (sp?), who sounds like another skilled foreigner. They'll be much better next year, but as you mention they could take a gigantic step with either Maker or Alkins. As long as they have Slice and Abdelmassih, they'll definitely get players.

[TheSultan]

Every year, this subject is brought up. Every year, SJU gets a couple of really good players. And every year they crap out.

The BE is arguably the 2nd best conference this year and SJU sucks. The conference doesn't need to have SJU be great again. Just because they are in NYC doesn't mean the BE will get more coverage. Like Chicago, NY is a pro ball town. SJU and DU could be undefeated and they would be relegated to the 2nd page in the papers (what's a paper).

I would much rather Marquette gets back to dominance again and let everything else play out.


Agreed. In today's world, it just matters that BE schools are ranked and make deep tournament runs. Whether those schools are Creighton and Providence, or are SJU and DePaul, it doesn't really matter.

[Goose85]

Agreed. In today's world, it just matters that BE schools are ranked and make deep tournament runs. Whether those schools are Creighton and Providence, or are SJU and DePaul, it doesn't really matter.

I get the point you guys are making, and agree deep tourney runs are important.

I disagree in that I think most sports fans and places like ESPN, focus on what is perceived as marquee teams.
In hoops, if Kentucky is bad for a couple years most sports fans don't pay attention to SEC basketball and consider it a down year for the conference. Are normal sports fans talking and watching highlights of Kentucky or Texas A&M / South Carolina hoops?

It is a story when Duke loses, not when Va Tech or Clemson are doing well. If Duke and UNC have off years the ACC is considered down.

Big 10 football needs Michigan and Ohio State to be good. If both teams struggle, the conference is considered down and people don't pay attention.

Most leagues have marquee teams. No offense, but when Creighton was really good most sports fans weren't talking about the Big East.
That is why I think it is important that the Big East have what most consider marquee teams nationally.

Who is the Big East's equal to Mich / Ohio State in football, or Kentucky or Kansas in basketball. Are there two teams that are the Big East equivalent to UNC and Duke?

I guess that is why I think St. John's with Mullin could really get some national publicity and elevate the conference, and they and Georgetown could be those teams.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

I don't think St John's is one of our marquee brands. Villanova, Georgetown, and even Butler are more marquee because of the combination of history and recent success. When was St John's last compared to Duke, UNC, or Kentucky? They're just another team. Until they sustain 4-6 years of high level success, they won't be a marquee name, no matter where they play.

[IWB]

I don't think St John's is one of our marquee brands. Villanova, Georgetown, and even Butler are more marquee because of the combination of history and recent success. When was St John's last compared to Duke, UNC, or Kentucky? They're just another team. Until they sustain 4-6 years of high level success, they won't be a marquee name, no matter where they play.

while I agree that St. John's is not a marquee brand, I disagree that they need 4-6 years of high level success to get there. Primarily because they are in NYC, playing in Madison Square Garden.

If Butler goes on a great run, if Creighton goes on a great run...it will eventually be picked up by ESPN.

On the other hand, if St. John's goes on a great run, Spike Lee will be courtside tomorrow as will other NYC celebs. St. John's has a better chance at making a national splash in one year than anyone else in the Big East, all due to where they are. There is a reason that the ACC is dying to play there. There is a reason that the Big 10 is dying to play there. New York is the epi-center of basketball in the United States, and St. John's is New York's only big time team.

[TheSultan]

Last time SJU made a Final Four was 30 years ago. Butler is more of a marquee program.

[Gato78]

Last time SJU made a Final Four was 30 years ago. Butler is more of a marquee program.

You seem to miss the point. A GOOD St. John's would blow Butler out of the water if they were equal in all respects.

[MUBasketball]

872

I love this pic! Stud recruit Rawle Alkins - Slice with a pimp suit on, meanwhile not one sh*t given by Mullin, lounging in his flip flops. Total boss.

[TheSultan]

You seem to miss the point. A GOOD St. John's would blow Butler out of the water if they were equal in all respects.


We can pine away at how important SJU is to the BE, but I think the BE is doing just fine without them being good. And sure IF they get good again, that COULD mean something more to the BE. But I'm not going to waste energy hoping that happens.

[Goose85]

I doubt when Butler takes on Georgetown the college basketball fans across the US make sure to tune in. No offense to Butler, as I'd think MU is in the same boat.

St. John's with Mullin as head coach is a different animal.

Is the Big East doing fine, yes, but having Butler as one of the marquee teams is not going to make the cash registers light up for the conference. With Mullin and wins, St. John's could move the needle.

St. John's as a top team could fill the Garden for the Big East tourney.

St. John's is the one team in the league that, if they were on top and rolling with Mullin, could be our Kentucky or Duke because of their location to media, and Mullin.

Most of our league will never get there, but St. John's could, and that is why I have been spending a little energy watching what Mullin is doing. It could be incredible for the entire league.

[2012Warrior]

Or if Nova continues to be a top 10 team yearly and makes some runs in the tournament, they could be our Kentucky or Duke. I don't think people are tuning in to Kentucky games because of how awesome Lexington is.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

If the Big East wants to be considered a power conference they need to get into championship games and occasionally win one or two. that just my opinion.

[MUMac]

Actually, next year they should be pretty good regardless if they add anybody else.

LoVett will be a huge addition and allow Mussini to play off the ball. Tariq Owens is sitting out this year as a transfer from Tennessee. And they have a lot of youth this year, and guys are getting big minutes which should benefit them next year. They already have good shot blockers with their young bigs.

Sounds like they'll likely get Freudenberg (sp?), who sounds like another skilled foreigner. They'll be much better next year, but as you mention they could take a gigantic step with either Maker or Alkins. As long as they have Slice and Abdelmassih, they'll definitely get players.

One thing to keep in mind for next year with SJU, is the international players. Will they all come back? Will they turn pro? Mussini, if I recall, had a chance to go pro in Italy this year and considered it.

[MUWhistler]

You guys are really overplaying the impact that SJU can have. Living here in NYC, they aren't even a blip in the media right now. Yes, they are the local team, but they don't register on anyone's scale. Even if they start to have some good seasons in a row, it will take a long time for them to register again on the average sports fan consciousness in NYC.

I went last week to get seats for the MU game this weekend at MSG. Two weeks before the game, and walking up to the box office window, I could get 4 seats in the 11th row behind the MU bench. That is how low the current view of the program is. There was a Rangers game going on and the place was mobbed with their fans. It will take a long time for them to get back to the level where they can pack MSG.

And remember that they play some of their games on campus, just like Nova, so it is only a portion of their games that are at MSG.

[Goose85]

You guys are really overplaying the impact that SJU can have. Living here in NYC, they aren't even a blip in the media right now. Yes, they are the local team, but they don't register on anyone's scale. Even if they start to have some good seasons in a row, it will take a long time for them to register again on the average sports fan consciousness in NYC.

I went last week to get seats for the MU game this weekend at MSG. Two weeks before the game, and walking up to the box office window, I could get 4 seats in the 11th row behind the MU bench. That is how low the current view of the program is. There was a Rangers game going on and the place was mobbed with their fans. It will take a long time for them to get back to the level where they can pack MSG.

And remember that they play some of their games on campus, just like Nova, so it is only a portion of their games that are at MSG.

If St. John's were one of the top Big East teams, and a top 15 type team with high expectations, do you think MSG would sell out for the Big East Tourney?

[TheSultan]

If St. John's were one of the top Big East teams, and a top 15 type team with high expectations, do you think MSG would sell out for the Big East Tourney?

Selling out the conference tournament doesn't mean much when it comes to the exposure for the conference. When people are talking about the strength of the BE now, does anyone preface it with "if only they would sell out their conference tournament?"

[Goose85]

Selling out the conference tournament doesn't mean much when it comes to the exposure for the conference. When people are talking about the strength of the BE now, does anyone preface it with "if only they would sell out their conference tournament?"

I was asking about the conference tourney to gauge if there were enough fans in NY of St. John's that would attend conference tourney and help make it the tough ticket it used to be. I assumed there would be, but thought I'd ask a MU fan that lives in the area.

Selling out the tourney is always better than a half full arena, and it helps us from getting bumped out of MSG at our preferred time slot.

I know you don't think it matters to the conference if St. John's is good or not, and I disagree, which is fine.

I just think having a hall of fame player like Mullin coaching St. John's, in NY where there is plenty of media and near ESPN, could be the kind of program that could not only be consistently ranked, but could become our Kentucky, Duke, UNC with one and done players and high expectations.
If Mullin leaves that probably changes, as coaches are the ticket in college hoops now.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

But of St John's is good for one year and drops off the next, they'll be right back to obscurity. We've seen that in recent years. If they don't sustain success, no one cares, which is why no one cares now despite a NCAA bid last year.

[Markedman]

This is the same argument people have made about DePaul for years.

I don't care if St. John's becomes good or not. If MU becomes a consistent top 25 program again I will be happy. If they don't then how St. John's or DePaul or anyone else does isn't going to cheer me up......not even a little.

[Gato78]

I have been to the BIG EAST Tourney several times so I have seen what a local team can do for the building. Syracuse and UConn fans, when they have been in the hunt, filled the place along with the likes of Bill Clinton, Nick Faldo and John Lithgow (a favorite of Goose85). Without the local presence, there won't be that kind of buzz and draw. Same translates to the population at large. We need St. John's to be good and to deliver a star or two. Then the BIG EAST will return to its media prominence. Right now, the BIG EAST is the second best conference in the country (thank you Michigan State and Wisconsin). Yet, the average person knows very little about that fact. If you don't think New York and MSG are basketball's biggest stage, check out the 1970 NIT when Pete Maravich and Dean Meminger along with Al McGuire and Press Maravich equaled and possibly outshone the NCAA Tourney that year which had, as I recall, Jacksonville with Artis Gilmore and Pembroke Burroughs III as the marquee attraction. Never discount how important New York is to our nation's collective consciousness.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

Comparing 1970 to today is irrelevant. No amount of quality would lead the NIT to outshine the NCAA today.

The reason the average fan doesn't know is not because of St John's, it's because the average fan gets their info from ESPN and they don't push us like they do leagues that they broadcast. We have had four different teams in the top-10 this season. If St John's was one of those, it wouldn't change a damn thing because 95% of sports fans get all their information from one source that treats us like a mid-major league.

[TheSultan]

+1 brew

I think people are viewing this using a media methodology that is outdated. New York is clearly important, but it isn't the be all and end all.

[Markedman]

The best thing that could happen to,the Big East would be for 1 BE school.....(doesn't matter which 1) make it to the final 4.

Until that happens the media types won't give the league credibility.

[MKE_GoldenEagleFan]

+1 brew

I think people are viewing this using a media methodology that is outdated. New York is clearly important, but it isn't the be all and end all.

This... If that was the case Kansas, Duke, UNC, Louisville, UCONN, Syracuse, and Indiana wouldn't be elite programs... They would be St. John's, DePaul, UCLA, Houston, and SMU.

[Alan Bykowski, "brewcity77"]

The best thing that could happen to,the Big East would be for 1 BE school.....(doesn't matter which 1) make it to the final 4.

Until that happens the media types won't give the league credibility.

And honestly, one Final Four can be written off. Getting two in the Final Four or one winning the title would be the statement I think we'd need. This could be the year, as there's no real dominant team.

[warriorfan4life]

And honestly, one Final Four can be written off. Getting two in the Final Four or one winning the title would be the statement I think we'd need. This could be the year, as there's no real dominant team.

Everything screams Nova having a great chance this year, but damn there is scar tissue from last two years and their disaster against Oklahoma earlier this year. As long as X rediscovers rhythm they had prior to Sumner's injury, they could make a deep run as well. It will again be a year of rooting vicariously for our Big East brethren in the Dance.